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  4. Sujud

Sujud

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  • R Offline
    R Offline
    Raj-ah
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    The primary aspect of "sujud" and "ruku" is mental. Sujud = obeying/submitting and ruku = being humble

    This statement is inspired by the following statement

    ayman

    So now that we have understood "sujud" based on the reading as "hearing and obeying", everything falls into place.

    In the above statement he tells us that if you take the meaning of "Sujood" as "hearing and obeying" every thing falls into place. the colored red is the important part.

    For his blind follower whom I quoted ABOVE and for ayman I have a question; in the following verses Quran tells us this

    Among His proofs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not "prostrate" before the sun, nor the moon; you shall fall prostrate before the GOD who created them, if you truly worship Him alone

    let us see if we take what Hazrat ayman says as the maning of Sujood

    Among His proofs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not hear and obey before the sun, nor the moon;you shall fall prostrate before the GOD who created them, if you truly worship Him alone.

    Does this makes Sense?

    Prayers in JEWS, CHristians and Muslims and almost in every existing religon are offered practically

    Then David said to the whole assembly, "Praise the LORD your God." So they all praised the LORD , the God of their fathers; they bowed low and fell prostrate before the LORD and the king. (From the NIV Bible, 1 Chronicles 2920)"

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    • N Offline
      N Offline
      Navid
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      How would you explain this verse?

      Do you not realize that to GOD prostrates everyone in the heavens and the earth, and the sun, and the moon, and the stars, and the mountains, and the trees, and the animals, and many people? Many others among the people are committed to doom. Whomever GOD shames, none will honor him. Everything is in accordance with GOD's will.

      The primary aspect of "sujud" is mental, not physical. If you physically "sujud" without mental "sujud," it doesn't mean anything. Why would some empty physical action do anythinkg for you?

      As I said, sujud = obeying/submitting

      Siin-Jiim-Dal = lowly, humble, submissive, worship, adore, prostrate, make obeisance, lower/bend oneself down towards the ground, lower the head, to salute/honour/magnify, to pay respect, to stand up, to look continuedly and tranquily.
      MSJD - parts of a man that are the places of SJD, e.g. forehead/nose/hands/knees/feet etc. Any mode/place/practice in which the act of SJD is done.

      Peace

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      • R Offline
        R Offline
        Raj-ah
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        The primary aspect of "sujud" is mental, not physical. If you physically "sujud" without mental "sujud," it doesn't mean anything. Why would some empty physical action do anythinkg for you?

        So you have added up "Physical" to "Mental" that does mean that you agree with Physical "Prayers"

        Well! Let us wait for further replies

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        • Y Offline
          Y Offline
          Yosemite
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          I believe that physical prostation helps the one in making himself submissive to God, if he knows what he do, if he know what he say, if his intentions are there and true.

          YOu know i don't understand how the sunni or the salafi can say "we pray like the prophet prayed" while the shia pray differently, while the sunni turks pray also differently.

          In school, i've seen a turk and an arab (both sunni, but one is of like the salafi and the other what is practiced over at turkey) they were debating on how to perform prayer.

          Seriously... Isn't it more important to know what you ask to God, not to blindly follow men...

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          • N Offline
            N Offline
            Navid
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            So you have added up "Physical" to "Mental" that does mean that you agree with Physical "Prayers"

            Well! Let us wait for further replies

            Sure, one must physically read/recite/perform salat. But if you don't know what you are saying or you don't believe what you're saying/paying lip service, it doesn't mean anything. Again, the primary aspect of salat is mental. How could you not agree? Please respond like a normal human being, instead of sarcastically brushing it off.

            Peace

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            • M Offline
              M Offline
              mz
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Salaams Br's,

              Among His proofs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not "prostrate" before the sun, nor the moon; you shall fall prostrate before the GOD who created them, if you truly worship Him alone

              So you think it?s

              Day, Night, Sun, Moon

              If we start counting things around us, there is no end to them!

              I doubt if these are what the words meant originally Br?s,

              Please check the following and start using your God given talent.

              http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9729.msg41208#msg41208

              Gods blessings on all.

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              • J Offline
                J Offline
                Jack
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Peace,

                I believe 4101-103 clearly shows a physical act of salaat. Please read it in context. However, mental is way more important. And I'd say most of al-quran is a mental 'sujud'.

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                • I Offline
                  I Offline
                  ignoramus
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  salam

                  in my opinion, there is no contradiction in Allah using sujood metaphorically in 2218, and using it literally in the physical sense elsewhere. i do not think one would be justified in concluding from this verse that it is used in exactly the same sense everywhere.

                  salam

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                  • L Offline
                    L Offline
                    Leoxyz
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    salam

                    in my opinion, there is no contradiction in Allah using sujood metaphorically in 2218, and using it literally in the physical sense elsewhere. i do not think one would be justified in concluding from this verse that it is used in exactly the same sense everywhere.

                    salam

                    salaam
                    Very rational thought. yeah

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                    • J Offline
                      J Offline
                      Jack
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      It is rational. If you believe in a physical sujood, then of course it also has to be mental.

                      Or can you be thinking about other than God while performing the sujood

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                      • L Offline
                        L Offline
                        Leoxyz
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        It is rational. If you believe in a physical sujood, then of course it also has to be mental.

                        Or can you be thinking about other than God while performing the sujood

                        Again agreed. yeah

                        This is called
                        "Khuzhoo3"
                        "Khushoo3"

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                        • A Offline
                          A Offline
                          AaRoN
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          haha raj-ah why don't you find the original version of that bible and translate the words yourself instead of relying on corrupted english translations that you think prove your point?

                          Among His proofs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not hear and obey before the sun, nor the moon;you shall fall prostrate before the GOD who created them, if you truly worship Him alone.

                          and explain to me why in your example you change for the part highlighted in red but don't change for the part highlighted in blue... are you rushing too much and not completing your examples, or are you being dishonest in your examples?

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                          • I Offline
                            I Offline
                            ignoramus
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            It is rational. If you believe in a physical sujood, then of course it also has to be mental.

                            Or can you be thinking about other than God while performing the sujood

                            salam

                            i totally agree. of course, this does not preclude a physical component.

                            salam

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                            • A Offline
                              A Offline
                              ayman
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              Peace DArgento,

                              It is rational. If you believe in a physical sujood, then of course it also has to be mental.
                              Or can you be thinking about other than God while performing the sujood

                              How is this rational? It is an indisputable fact that there are many people who physically prostrate and yet disobey the god. If someone physically prostrates but disobeys the god, then has he really done "sujud"? Is the god primarily concerned with the superficial?

                              People like Rajah are not concerned about following what the god says. If they really wanted to follow what the god says and they believed that "sujud" is physical then they should follow 17107 and prostrate to the chin and not the forehead. Go see them physically prostrating in any Mosque, you will probably never see them prostrate to the chin. They will not be concerned about what the god says but about what their fellow sectarians will think if they see them attempt to obey the god to the best of their knowledge and prostrate to the chin. They are not concerned with obeying the god but with following their forefathers and conforming to the majority. But the god exposes them. We can empirically verify this.

                              Peace,

                              Ayman

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                              • L Offline
                                L Offline
                                Leoxyz
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                Peace DArgento,

                                People like Rajah are not concerned about following what the god says. If they really wanted to follow what the god says and they believed that "sujud" is physical then they should follow 17107 and prostrate to the chin and not the forehead. Go see them physically prostrating in any Mosque, you will probably never see them prostrate to the chin. Ayman

                                The actual aya is
                                17107
                                I am yet to know from which words of this aya you are drawing the "order" (amar) for muslims.Please do guide.It seems to be another "Tampering of the meaning" to me.
                                I may have missed " " in it.
                                I was already impressed by the "intellecutalism" of quranists .This has added to my impression .
                                Waiting for reply

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                                • J Offline
                                  J Offline
                                  Jack
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  peace ayman

                                  How is this rational? It is an indisputable fact that there are many people who physically prostrate and yet disobey the god. If someone physically prostrates but disobeys the god, then has he really done "sujud"?

                                  You are right, I think you misunderstood me?

                                  As I mentioned before, the mental aspect is much more important. To clarify One has to mentally surrender to the God through his/her actions and innermost intentions. Or the physical prostration is empty and worthless.

                                  Is the god primarily concerned with the superficial?

                                  Absolutely not.

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                                  • M Offline
                                    M Offline
                                    mz
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    Salaams All,

                                    To all people who prostarate on their foreheads-

                                    Salaams,

                                    17107 Proclaim, "Believe in it, or do not believe in it." Those who possess knowledge from the previous scriptures, when it is recited to them, they fall down to their chins, prostrating.

                                    17108 They say, "Glory be to our Lord. This fulfills our Lord's prophecy."

                                    17109 They fall down on their chins, prostrating and weeping, for it augments their reverence.

                                    I THINK IT?S JUST NODDING YOUR HEAD IN ACCEPTANCE OR SOMETHING.

                                    As Br Ayman is saying the words are talking about falling on your chin.........

                                    God Bless All.

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                                    • R Offline
                                      R Offline
                                      Raj-ah
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      yosemite

                                      I believe that physical prostation helps the one in making himself submissive to God, if he knows what he do, if he know what he say, if his intentions are there and true.

                                      Yes! It is common sense when you pray Physically, offcourse you have to prepare yourself for it, mentally. For example when you perform Wudu or when you get your prayer sheet or when some walk to Masjid are these acts performed mindlessely? Any one who performs Salat or tries to contact with Allah, no matter of any religon he does it on intention. Therefore the propoganda that those who pray physically pray without mental intention is void and baseless.

                                      Navid

                                      Sure, one must physically read/recite/perform salat. But if you don't know what you are saying or you don't believe what you're saying/paying lip service, it doesn't mean anything. Again, the primary aspect of salat is mental. How could you not agree? Please respond like a normal human being, instead of sarcastically brushing it off.

                                      Correct! Please read the response above.

                                      DArgento

                                      I believe 4101-103 clearly shows a physical act of salaat. Please read it in context. However, mental is way more important. And I'd say most of al-quran is a mental 'sujud'.

                                      Ok!

                                      Thanks! I am delighted to hear that most of us hear agree besides some "intellectuals" that Physical Salat is required by Allah.

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                                      • R Offline
                                        R Offline
                                        Raj-ah
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        mz

                                        Salaams All,
                                        To all people who prostarate on their foreheads-
                                        Quote
                                        Salaams,

                                        17107 Proclaim, "Believe in it, or do not believe in it." Those who possess knowledge from the previous scriptures, when it is recited to them, they fall down to their chins, prostrating.
                                        17108 They say, "Glory be to our Lord. This fulfills our Lord's prophecy."
                                        17109 They fall down on their chins, prostrating and weeping, for it augments their reverence.
                                        I THINK IT?S JUST NODDING YOUR HEAD IN ACCEPTANCE OR SOMETHING.

                                        As Br Ayman is saying the words are talking about falling on your chin.........

                                        God Bless All.

                                        Ah! brother ayman; no doubt has misguided many, may Allah show him the right path, the kind of researcher he is, we need him here, we need him to use his knowldge and search results to UNITE muslims and not to disunite them, we need him here to use his powerful words to bring UMMAH closer by talking about common terms in different sects, first.

                                        Dear mz; Brother Leoxyz has posted this may be you have not read it, in a hurry to praise ayman

                                        Leoxyz

                                        The actual aya is
                                        17107
                                        I am yet to know from which words of this aya you are drawing the "order" (amar) for muslims.Please do guide.It seems to be another "Tampering of the meaning" to me.
                                        I may have missed " " in it.
                                        I was already impressed by the "intellecutalism" of quranists .This has added to my impression .
                                        Waiting for reply

                                        Brother may be you will not get an answer and you have to wait till long. They will ask you questions and questions but when they have to answer they will yet ask you another question, this is the way they can survive.

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                                        • R Offline
                                          R Offline
                                          Raj-ah
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          Navid

                                          How would you explain this verse?

                                          Do you not realize that to GOD prostrates everyone in the heavens and the earth, and the sun, and the moon, and the stars, and the mountains, and the trees, and the animals, and many people? Many others among the people are committed to doom. Whomever GOD shames, none will honor him. Everything is in accordance with GOD's will.

                                          The primary aspect of "sujud" is mental, not physical. If you physically "sujud" without mental "sujud," it doesn't mean anything. Why would some empty physical action do anythinkg for you?

                                          As I said, sujud = obeying/submitting

                                          I will explain this verse according to my understanding, but you have not yet answered the question which I asked.
                                          Actually the answer is in your post already all we need is some Common sense and out of the mesmerism of QURANISTS.

                                          The primary aspect of Sujud is Mental? you said right?
                                          Now in the above verse Allah tells us that "Mountains", "moon", "sun" and "stars" "Sujud" to Allah,
                                          Mountains do they have brains? Sun and Moon what is their IQ level? Stars; how intelligent are they? so how can these mentally do the "Sujud" along with Physically??

                                          Confusing? No not at all!

                                          Actually the "Sujod" of every entity is different, as for humans is to "Bow" down physically and mentally to Allah's will and submitt one's self. For SUN the "Sujod" is different for animals "Sujod" is different, may be the "Sujod" of "Sun" and "Moon" is to follow the laws made by Allah for their movement and destiny.

                                          "It is He who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, all swim along, each in its orbit."

                                          He merges night into day and day into night; And subjected the sun and the moon (to His Law); each one runs its course for a term appointed."

                                          "The sun and the moon follow courses exactly computed

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