What about all the bad things that happen?
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Salaam,
I know that all good things come from God... but what about all the bad things? If something bad happens to us, (I mean, something really bad... enough to make life a living hell for a long time), which we never created or took any part in?
I'm confident that many bad things happen to us because of our own doing, but what about the things that are not our doing? If all good things come from God, and all bad things come from satan... then what are your thoughts on why bad things happen to good people? People that try to live a decent life and do their best to help others?
Do you think God allows bad things to happen to us even if we don't deserve them? To teach us something or test our strength?
All thoughts are welcome.
peace,
dotty -
Hey Dotty,
Who the heck wants only pleasure without pain? Is there such a thing? That's like saying you want to flatten out a roller coaster so you only go up but never down, how boring is that. Whoever told us that pleasure without pain existed? Just my take on things. -
Hey Dotty,
Who the heck wants only pleasure without pain? Is there such a thing? That's like saying you want to flatten out a roller coaster so you only go up but never down, how boring is that. Whoever told us that pleasure without pain existed? Just my take on things.It does exist but when you experience it you don't recognize it - until one day, it's gone ;D
If all good things come from God, and all bad things come from satan
I don't understand where you got that from. From god alone comes everything (2116). That doesn't mean, however that god approves/endorses bad (479).
Do you think God allows bad things to happen to us even if we don't deserve them? To teach us something or test our strength?
You answered your own question?
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Salaam,
Do you think God allows bad things to happen to us even if we don't deserve them? To teach us something or test our strength?
peace,
dottyI see it like this.. GOD just guides you to heaven if you start doing good or u start doing something wrong or evil you will be guided to hell. but in this world you have the free will to do, bad and good.
but to your question about bad things that you think had happen to good people like you,
dont take it as bad, it may be for a good and start doing good things..
sometimes what we consider bad for now, may actually be good for tomorrow, many would have faced this in their life. -
We all have both a light side (God) and a dark side (satan)
When we do good, we have chosen God..
When we go towards evil, we choose Satan.
478 Wherever you may be, death will find you, even if you are in fortified towers. If any good befalls them, they say "This is from God," and if any bad befalls them, they say "This is from you!" Say "All is from God;" what is wrong with these people, they barely understand anything said!
479 Any good that befalls you is from God, and any bad that befalls you is from yourself. We have sent you as a messenger to the people and God is enough as a witness.
I find this explanation enlightening
Salaamun alaikum,
I don't see it as a contradiction because 4/78-79 both talk about different 'dimensions' of an event.
4/78 tells us that every hadith/new event in our lives are from Allah, therefore to denounce it would be to misunderstand it.
4/79 uses the phrase 'min NAFSIka' , i.e. from your soul. It could have been 'minka' (from you) but the soul has been pointed to here. THis is because this evil is in a perceptive sense. You feel you have been touched by evil because of the satanic nature which the nafs is experiencing.
slm.
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Hey Dotty,
Who the heck wants only pleasure without pain? Is there such a thing? That's like saying you want to flatten out a roller coaster so you only go up but never down, how boring is that. Whoever told us that pleasure without pain existed? Just my take on things.Tell this to the child that is beaten and tortured by his parents for years before being rescued.
peace,
dotty -
I don't understand where you got that from. From god alone comes everything (2116). That doesn't mean, however that god approves/endorses bad (479).
478 Wherever you may be, death will find you, even if you are in fortified towers. If any good befalls them, they say "This is from God," and if any bad befalls them, they say "This is from you!" Say "All is from God;" what is wrong with these people, they barely understand anything said!
479 Any good that befalls you is from God, and any bad that befalls you is from yourself. We have sent you as a messenger to the people and God is enough as a witness.
I will study these more carefully, thank you.
peace,
dotty -
lol OPF you are definitely right, I obviously didn't think my words through. In the present moment there is either pleasure or pain, not both at the same time (sometimes). What I'm trying to say is they are both poles of the same magnet so to speak. Just as a wave has a crest and a trough, pleasure is inseperable from pain. A mountain peak implies a bottom, and similarly, pleasure implies pain and vice versa.
You are right Dotty in saying that my words will not comfort a child who has been beaten. Words will do nothing, except point.
Anyway, I know nothing and just felt like typing these words, I cannot even tell you who 'I' am. I suggest we all endeavour before embarking on anything, to figure out who's doing the embarking. Who is thinking these thoughts? Who is experiencing anger and frustration, love and happiness?Who is it that doesn't want to experience pain? Who is it that wants eternal pleasure?
I know none of what I say answers your questions, but in writing this, I'm attempting to answer some of my own. Sorry for the hijacking of your thread, or for the insensitivity in my posts.
Peace -
You are right Dotty in saying that my words will not comfort a child who has been beaten. Words will do nothing, except point.
Anyway, I know nothing and just felt like typing these words, I cannot even tell you who 'I' am. I suggest we all endeavour before embarking on anything, to figure out who's doing the embarking. Who is thinking these thoughts? Who is experiencing anger and frustration, love and happiness?Who is it that doesn't want to experience pain? Who is it that wants eternal pleasure?
I know none of what I say answers your questions, but in writing this, I'm attempting to answer some of my own. Sorry for the hijacking of your thread, or for the insensitivity in my posts.
PeaceHey no need for apologies. Sometimes, when I think I know the answer to something, I find myself asking other questions... so in the end I still don't know.
If bad things only happened to bad people, then the world would be illogical and incompatible with free-choice.
Without experiencing bad, we would never know good.
If God exists, then there is no injustice in the end.
Hmmmmm, I agree that without bad we cannot know what is good, but I don't believe that free-choice as available to all.
Small children are not choosing to starve, be forced into prostitution, lay in bed every night near death because they don't have medical facilities, etc.Now, going back to these verses
478 Wherever you may be, death will find you, even if you are in fortified towers. If any good befalls them, they say "This is from God," and if any bad befalls them, they say "This is from you!" Say "All is from God;" what is wrong with these people, they barely understand anything said!
479 Any good that befalls you is from God, and any bad that befalls you is from yourself. We have sent you as a messenger to the people and God is enough as a witness.
If bad things are from our own doing... well, that makes sense if we make a mistake and then suffer a bad experience from that mistake. Do all things come from God? Even the bad? I am intelligent enough to know all means ALL, but I still feel that bad things come from satan and God allows what He wishes... in that sense it still comes from God.
I can usually find positive in a bad situation, for example... A is driving to work and gets a flat tire... well, maybe if A had gone on as usual A would have been in a terrible accident and this was God's way of protecting A. Therefore, this is a positive thing, even though it seems to be a bad thing.
Is God giving innocent people so much hell in this world with the gift of the greatest reward in the next world? Maybe.
I'm just trying to sort this all out.
peace,
dotty -
Small children are not choosing to starve, be forced into prostitution, lay in bed every night near death because they don't have medical facilities, etc.
That is not what I meant. I meant free-choice means that if someone wants to stab and kill a good person, they can. Similarly, if people wish to let a child starve, they can etc. If one wishes only bad things to happen to bad people, then we must remove logic and free-choice. That is what I meant.
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That is not what I meant. I meant free-choice means that if someone wants to stab and kill a good person, they can. Similarly, if people wish to let a child starve, they can etc. If one wishes only bad things to happen to bad people, then we must remove logic and free-choice. That is what I meant.
You can also remove the "badness" (i.e. remove the concept of good and bad from the brain, take away the ability to feel pain, etc) but that wouldn't be fun would it?
I think these things in us are just a whole part of the test. Maybe we're just part of God's research into simulated reality ;D
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That is not what I meant. I meant free-choice means that if someone wants to stab and kill a good person, they can. Similarly, if people wish to let a child starve, they can etc. If one wishes only bad things to happen to bad people, then we must remove logic and free-choice. That is what I meant.
Thanks for clarifying.
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therefore if we remove free-choice, we are slaves with no choice, thus invalidating this life/test.
So if people who commit crimes against humankind have free-choice, as you mentioned earlier, then what choices do the innocent have? Wouldn't they then be slaves with no choice?
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So if people who commit crimes against humankind have free-choice, as you mentioned earlier, then what choices do the innocent have? Wouldn't they then be slaves with no choice?
No.
You seem to be confusing the two issues an evil act, and the ability to choose (i.e. free-choice) to do good/bad/whatever.
To remove evil acts, as I have been saying, would mean we must also remove logic (in the world) and free-choice (in people). If we did remove these things, this life/test becomes invalid/pointless, as we would be slaves with no free-choice and the world wouldn't make sense. For a brilliant analogy, see The Matrix where Agent Smith is talking to a tied up Morpheus and he says the machines created the first matrix where everything was perfect, no bad things took place etc. what happened? He then explains the human mind "did not accept the program" and failed. This is exactly what would happen if we removed "bad things" from the world. It wouldn't make sense, and our minds would reject it.
If an evil act is committed against an innocent in which they have no choice, then this seems unfair. Listen to your inner compass. If you feel it is unfair, then your soul is telling you there must be a counter-balance to the equation. Something which sets it right... this is where God comes in.
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No.
You seem to be confusing the two issues an evil act, and the ability to choose (i.e. free-choice) to do good/bad/whatever.
To remove evil acts, as I have been saying, would mean we must also remove logic (in the world) and free-choice (in people). If we did remove these things, this life/test becomes invalid/pointless, as we would be slaves with no free-choice and the world wouldn't make sense. For a brilliant analogy, see The Matrix where Agent Smith is talking to a tied up Morpheus and he says the machines created the first matrix where everything was perfect, no bad things took place etc. what happened? He then explains the human mind "did not accept the program" and failed. This is exactly what would happen if we removed "bad things" from the world. It wouldn't make sense, and our minds would reject it.
If an evil act is committed against an innocent in which they have no choice, then this seems unfair. Listen to your inner compass. If you feel it is unfair, then your soul is telling you there must be a counter-balance to the equation. Something which sets it right... this is where God comes in.
Ok, I hear your point here.
479 Any good that befalls you is from God, and any bad that befalls you is from yourself. We have sent you as a messenger to the people and God is enough as a witness.
Is it logical to think that all bad things happen to us because of our own doing? Here again, would innocent people bring bad to themselves when they are innocent? Maybe I am really confused here or I am not understanding this verse correctly.
Please help!
peace,
dotty -
Ok, I hear your point here.
479 Any good that befalls you is from God, and any bad that befalls you is from yourself. We have sent you as a messenger to the people and God is enough as a witness.
Is it logical to think that all bad things happen to us because of our own doing? Here again, would innocent people bring bad to themselves when they are innocent? Maybe I am really confused here or I am not understanding this verse correctly.
Please help!
peace,
dottyIt's an address to the messenger, clearly note the context. So a messenger to mankind, has that applying to him, not in the general case. Also, meaning that such a messenger would have god's protection unless he did something to lose that privilege himself.
