What about all the bad things that happen?
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just to get back to this quote - wouldnt the "choice" of the innocent be in how they choose to react/deal with their situation?
Yes and no.
A small child who is sexually abused, let's say, may not even know HOW to react/deal.
In fact, it's a pretty sure bet they don't.
Peace
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True - but then the choice is theirs when they grow up perhaps?
to be honest this plays alot on my mind - why does god allow it? Its like he created everything then took a step back to watch us self-destruct or something....
I remember asking somehting similar a while ago about these bad things -
God allows these to happen
and God knows that some people will commit these horrible crimes but he created them anyways - why?
and God knows he'll punish for these things - so why make those souls who are surely going to be going to "hell" in the first place? (does that make sense?) -
True - but then the choice is theirs when they grow up perhaps?
Perhaps.
to be honest this plays alot on my mind - why does god allow it? Its like he created everything then took a step back to watch us self-destruct or something....
I remember asking somehting similar a while ago about these bad things -
God allows these to happen
and God knows that some people will commit these horrible crimes but he created them anyways - why?
and God knows he'll punish for these things - so why make those souls who are surely going to be going to "hell" in the first place? (does that make sense?)I did not respond to this right away because I wanted to think about it for a bit. I am still thinking...
Peace
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Salaam ay,
This example keeps coming to mind... a small child (say 5 years old) is brutally raped, beaten, tortured, and left for dead. The child survives to grow up and suffers horrible emotional trauma from the crime many years before. As an adult, he/she does experience some happiness, but there is no real freedom because the nightmares continue throughout his/her life.
We cannot comprehend the reason, but God has a purpose for everything. What could a tiny child have possibly done to deserve this? I can only conclude that justice will triumph on the last day. May God give the highest rewards to those who survive this kind of horror without any fault of their own.
Peace
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We cannot comprehend the reason, but God has a purpose for everything. What could a tiny child have possibly done to deserve this? I can only conclude that justice will triumph on the last day. May God give the highest rewards to those who survive this kind of horror without any fault of their own.
Peace
Peace,
I agree - ultimately it is a matter of faith and trusting God - because otherwise it doesnt make sense
i like the analogy that bro wakas gave earlier...maybe we are judging too soon?
If I may try an analogy... if you were an observer watching me standing over two hungry children fighting over a piece of bread, and I stopped them and took the piece of bread from them and you paused the scene right there and began to draw conclusions on what happened and if it was fair or not, you might think I took the bread for myself (i.e. something unfair) or something else... however, if you unpaused it and let the story complete, you may see me break the bread into two equal portions and return it to the children, each with their own share.
Thus, if we go back to the original point, you are making your judgement on God as being unfair only halfway through the story. As I said before, if God exists, like your point of contention assumes, we should remember that this life is only part of the story, and there will be no injustice once the story is complete.I hope this was of help.
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salam. there is a mathala/example in the quran of musa/moses and his travels with an angel. i will not post the verse because i believe forcing people to read the quran is important. those opposed to reading quran are beyond help.
the mathala is, what appears to ignorant human beings as a bad thing is actually an excellent action from allah. human beings do not know enough to judge what is good and what is evil. this is why opinions and the ignorant beliefs of a person are evil, and plain obedience to allah is good.
allah says all good comes from him and all evil comes from human beings. the false idea that human beings are in a position to judge a situation, is foolishness. the morality human beings use to make judgments is an evil false god, an idol worship, this idol worship turns people away from allah, clear proof of its evil.
allah is the lord of sublime morality.
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Perhaps the answer is there is no divine reason to an event like the one described,as there may be no divine?However ther are reasons of a more simple human nature type,which have to be understood and dealt with by individuals and society.
Thanks brother alan. I do struggle with this because I have witnessed so much pain in the lives of children over the past 30 years. I've dedicated a lot of time (through work and volunteering) with children who've had painful experiences and face the same obstacles every day, without ceasing. I've held small children every day (weekends too) while they cried themself to sleep. We would talk about God and pray together. After some days I thought it will get easier for them... then after some weeks... then after some months... and they were still crying themself to sleep saying the same things they said months ago. They asked the same questions... "why did this happen to me?" - "did I do something wrong?" - "am I being punished for being naughty?", etc. From my experience, kids are more at peace with God when they get a disease or have an accident... but agonize when they are hurt intentionally by another person because that is much harder for them to understand.
Peace
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Peace all,
2362 And We do not burden a soul except with what it can bear. And We have a record that speaks with the truth, they will not be wronged.2286 God does not burden a soul beyond its means. For it is what it earns, and against it is what it earns. ?Our Lord, do not mind us if we forget or make mistakes; our Lord, do not place a burden upon us as You have placed upon those before us; our Lord, do not place upon us what we cannot bear; pardon us, and forgive us, and have mercy on us; You are our patron, so grant us victory over the disbelieving people.?
6152 ?And do not come near the money of the orphan, except for what is best, until he reaches his independence; and give honestly full measure and weight equitably. We do not burden a soul except by what it can bear, and if you speak then be just even if against a relative; and regarding the pledges made to God, you shall observe them. This He has enjoined you that you may remember.?
Remember that no soul gets more than they can bear. People are different and have different levels of tolerance. Bad things happen to everybody. I believe it is evil to think that all this suffering is "by bad luck" as supposed to divine will as it trivializes the incident.
945 So with hardship comes ease.
946 With hardship comes ease.Peace
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"I believe it is evil to think that all this suffering is "by bad luck" as supposed to divine will as it trivializes the incident."
You are entitled to your opinion.
Which is more than these children got....
I find this response deeply superficial and trivialising.
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"I believe it is evil to think that all this suffering is "by bad luck" as supposed to divine will as it trivializes the incident."
You are entitled to your opinion.
Which is more than these children got....
I find this response deeply superficial and trivialising.
Peace,
If you want please elaborate as I don't understand your reasoning. What can be more trivial than suffering without purpose? -
We all need a mother like you.
All thanks to God... and thanks for your kind words alan. I am the kind of mother my own mother taught me to be.
Thanks dotty and aalamakto, you have no idea how good you both just made me feel with your posts, perfect words at the perfect time for me
Interestingly enough Kurt, your short post brought tears to my eyes. Thank you for that. My ability is God's blessing.
Sadly enough, the most recent child I have been helping is my own small daughter. Without giving ugly details, I will say a criminal has been caught because God gave immense bravery to my daughter. I am not looking for sympathy. I just wanted to point out, after all those years of working with child victims and witnessing their heartache... I never ever imagined I would experience things from the opposite side of the fence. Now, instead of being a compassionate friend... I've become the mother in need of my own compassionate friend.
If your kids are running around the house, jumping off furniture and doing sommersaults in the kitchen while you are trying to cook... don't mind it. Be thankful to God they have the ability to do these things instead of living life in a wheelchair. Always remember to thank God for everything.
And no, my daughter is not in a wheelchair, thanks God... I just like this way of thinking.It's so much easier for me to accept when bad things happen to adults because at least they are familiar with the ways of the world, whereas children are so innocent. Which brings me back to these verses aalmakto kindly shared. I know these verses well, but reminders are terrific.
2362 And We do not burden a soul except with what it can bear. And We have a record that speaks with the truth, they will not be wronged.
2286 God does not burden a soul beyond its means. For it is what it earns, and against it is what it earns. ?Our Lord, do not mind us if we forget or make mistakes; our Lord, do not place a burden upon us as You have placed upon those before us; our Lord, do not place upon us what we cannot bear; pardon us, and forgive us, and have mercy on us; You are our patron, so grant us victory over the disbelieving people.?
6152 ?And do not come near the money of the orphan, except for what is best, until he reaches his independence; and give honestly full measure and weight equitably. We do not burden a soul except by what it can bear, and if you speak then be just even if against a relative; and regarding the pledges made to God, you shall observe them. This He has enjoined you that you may remember.?
Remember that no soul gets more than they can bear. People are different and have different levels of tolerance. Bad things happen to everybody. I believe it is evil to think that all this suffering is "by bad luck" as supposed to divine will as it trivializes the incident.
945 So with hardship comes ease.
946 With hardship comes ease.I know I was babbling on a bit so thank you friends for listening. May God put compassion into the hearts of the indifferent.
Like the poem goes...
I asked for strength... And God gave me hardships to make me strong.
I asked for wisdom... And God gave me problems to solve. etc. etc.I posted this in the poetry corner a few weeks back. Peace & God bless!
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Peace,
If you want please elaborate as I don't understand your reasoning. What can be more trivial than suffering without purpose?Is it beyond your ability to comprehend that you can suffer for no reason,stupidity,selfishness,carelesness.We are all guilty of causing suffering.
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Is it beyond your ability to comprehend that you can suffer for no reason,stupidity,selfishness,carelesness.We are all guilty of causing suffering.
Peace Alan,
Please read the below link in particular verses 5-7
http//free-minds.org/quran/PM/92The suffering most of us experience is not as terrible as the suffering that exists in this world. Some people do not see justice in their lifetimes. To trust in goodness means believing the day will come when everyone will be repaid for what they have done. If all was for no reason, human stupidity, selfishness, then what "these children got...." would be the end of the story.
818 And when the girl killed in infancy is asked,
819 ?For what crime was she killed??
8110 And when the records are displayed.917 And a soul and what He made.
918 So He gave it its evil and good.
919 Successful is the one who betters it.
9110 And failing is the one who hides it.In answer to your question, yes I can comprehend what you are saying, but I can choose what to believe at the end of the day.
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Salaaman Dotty,
Sadly enough, the most recent child I have been helping is my own small daughter. Without giving ugly details, I will say a criminal has been caught because God gave immense bravery to my daughter. I am not looking for sympathy. I just wanted to point out, after all those years of working with child victims and witnessing their heartache... I never ever imagined I would experience things from the opposite side of the fence. Now, instead of being a compassionate friend... I've become the mother in need of my own compassionate friend.
??? &
I felt very sorry!
May Allah help you in your hard time and make your stand firm and make things as easy as possible for you dotty. pr He is the all Listener and Knower.
Regards,
mmKhan