Salam Noshirk

Thank you very much for your interesting post.

Salam
I can remember what it was like when I had to find that much of what I had firmly believed was not correct. it is clear that you feel like you're in a hole. thirty years to believe in something and to be convinced of it, and after being forced to realize that it is not so as was thought, is not easy. but be sure that God will help you. In fact he has already do so HE helped you that you has woken up and has led you to found the way to the Quran alone ).

God is there and is always the same. People have always asked him for help and fasted -all a bit different.
It's not so much the form what it counts, but the content. Prayer is primarily for you alone. God does not need it. It gives you strength, peace, relaxation, help and more. ) If you have not discovered how many times yet, then just go on and start - God will help you!
I have already said elsewhere my opinion that many paths lead to God, because we are all different. But you are certainly on the right track, don't let different opinions confuse you. read the Quran itself and trying to understand it - God is the teacher of the Quran, and he gives wisdom to whom he will , try to ask HIM - and He will answer you. )
and don't be sad!
peace

Salam Huruf

Yes, i see that you are very alarmed- group

I do not think the invalidity of salaat and therefore the dispense of it during menstruation comes from islamic sources. In judaism and in the bible menstruating women were unclean and were very restricted, it really looked like an abomination. There are things wrtten about that and there is the bible. That is where it comes from in islam, just as the sacrifice of ibrahim, and so many things, that "islam" has incorporated and which are completely straneous to Qur'an. The menstruation thing was a magnificent weapon to ban women out right from religious "hyerarchy" and religious significance. What are they going to do if they cannot even make prayers? ?Realise?

To be in ritual impurity is called junub-junuban. Nowhere int he Qur'an does that word appear in connection with menstruation. Nowhwere in the Qur'an is menstruation mentioned or hinted at as an impediment for salaa or fast.

to much from the secondary sources seem to be inspired from the bible. When we read ibn kathir, then he has a big knowledge from the laws and stories in the bible... in fact i think ,that the Quran want correct this mistake and tell the people look at ME HERE IS NOTHING WRITTEN ABOUT UNCLEANESS!!!!!! In one Aya, Allah shows us the truth and the most of the people( men??) don't like to see it.. -X

Again, Mirjamnur this is nothing directed at you, I just happen to have taken the cue from your message, but it is a general comment.

al hamdulillah!

Salam

I can clearly see that the topic got pretty heated up. All I wanted to say was about the possible feeling of uncleanness and therefore willingness to abstain from prayer due to feeling spiritually unclean. I have no experience of menstruation since obviously I am no woman.

this i think is probably possible- i am not feeling unclean, but disturbed and many womens suffer from headache or other disease during this time- so it is just a facility for womens to not MUST go in the mosque those times... And Allah knows.
peace

Salam

Salaam,

Thanks, I haven't noticed that the exception is related to the act (SJD) and not to the subject (alMalaika).

However, it does not really solve the problem.

234

And when We said to the angels Make SaJDa to Adam they did SaJDa, except Iblis. He refused and he was proud, and he was one of the unbelievers.

712

He said What hindered you so that you did not prostrate when I commanded you?

We can clearly see that Allah actually did command Iblis to perform SJD, THEN he refused. However in 234 Allah has only commanded the SJD to alMalaika alone. So Iblis should be included in alMalaika, or I am making a mistake here.

i'm sorry, but i don't understand- the word ILLA it does not make a clear exception?? all malaika ILLA ibliis. (for the action sujud AND the subject...??)
So for me i just can concluse, that Ibliis was one from the malaika as Mohf said..
Salam

Salam Mazhar

This understanding is because of not determining the inter relationship of words in the Ayah. Angels - plural definite noun are a large group. This word is prefixed with preposition "Li" which denotes that a proclamation was announced-made for them "You people--all the angels pay obeisance for Adam". Then it is told "fasajadu". Complying to the command, they all did pay obeisance. All the Angels complied. The exception relates to the act not to angels. Iblees, mentioned by name and not as one of them, did not comply to the command given to him. This is evident

" "
712

How should be the phrase if the exception relates to the angels?? it will be not the same? thank you for clarification- it's very interesting- because this Aya let me to accept, that Iblis was one from the malaikas , i.e the malaikas are jinns. (Sura kahf)
peace

Salam huruf

??? yes i know- i didn't clarifies enough? )
peace peace

Salam

welcome and i'm so happy, that you found the way to God and the way to the forum ;D
May Allah help you and us to learn and to understand His Quran!
peace

Salaam,

The last thing thou said, sister, about menstruating women.

There is a verse which tells not to approach women when they have their menstruation, because their are unclean, so does that not mean that praying is also recommended to abstain from?

I mean, if a woman is unclean during this period, is it not wrong to approach the prayers in this condition when you should be clean?

What is ceremonial impurity as I could read in 443 of Abdullah Yusuf Ali' s translation of Quran?

I am not a sexist or anything like that, I was just thinking out of my interpretation of the Quran.

Meanwhile, I think that it is not the same as having intercourse, and women with their tools to stop the bleeding is quite efficient today, so it would not prevent praying more than a plaster on the skin.

My wife abstains from praying during her period, but that has to do with tradition.

Anyway, I think it is up to each woman to determine, some women maybe feel uncomfortable praying during this period.

Of course, what I wrote above is depending on whether you see Salat as a "ritual" or not (I think ritual is the most worn out word on this forum).

I say that people should live in a state of prayer at all times, so this means physical praying loss for a women would not mean everything in the world. Most of your Faith is determined upon your righteousness, such as charity and personality.

God bless you, believing women, and men

I have thought that my post could be misunderstood. I know that- of course- the Quan never mentioned something about a ban on menstruation. I got to thinking how this ban could have found its way into the secondary sources - and my conclusion was that it may have been in the time of the Prophet women who were ashamed and so did not going to the common prayer in state of menstruation. And probably this behavior led to the ban in the secondary sources (Ahadithes).
Sorry, I just thought too much and do not written it. Wanted no confusion.
THERE IS NO PROHIBITION IN THE QURAN.

Huruf thank you for clarification and also sorry, that i don't write clear )

Salam

Salam

Salamun alaika,

Thanks for a very quick response.

"Galaxy of messengers" is perhaps not used in literature and ordinary speech. However, it should not have caused much concern or trouble in perceiving what I intended to convey because we do find in English texts "galaxy of ambassadors...".

Please suggest an alternate word in English commensurate with the distinction and honour signified by Arabic word Nabiyeena .

I do understand your point. Traditionally, it is translated as "to remember", "for rememberence". But I thought, rightly or wrongly, that it does not portray fully what is signified by the Verbal Noun Zikr. It signifies the complete process of saving something in memory which is possible only when one has correctly comprehended and perceived the idea. It yields a state that enables its effortless retrieval for expressing it to others.

I hope you can help me reconstructing the above sentences keeping in view the perception infolded in the Verbal Noun.

i also have many problems to understand you, but this explanation was very helpful!
so the Quran is easy to by 'zikrified'- memorized AND comprehended
Salam

Salam all

Salaam,

I doubt anyone will be punished for not saying the phrase that one witnesses that Muhammad is a Messenger of God.

This prophet is dead, but perhaps the testimony was valid while he was alive. It feels irrelevant today and a bit silly to express it these days.

But you are right, it is probably not shirk to testify that Muhammad is a Messenger of God, at least not unless you do it because of glorification of him. The intention can make anything shirk.

Prophet Muhammad can be a role model, this does not make it shirk. His good example can be found in the Quran, as well as many other messengers through history.

Excessive commemoration of a Messenger is tantamount to shirk, because it means one seems to praise this person for what God has sent. That the prophet never leaves your head and one gets obsessed with thinking about him is shirk and that he is more than an ordinary man blessed by God.

Of course, it is difficult to distinguish between shirk and the healthy state of being impressed.

Personally, I feel it is better to drop all focus on prophet Muhammad, I try to even out all lessons on all messengers ever sent instead and follow their example. I do not mention any of them while I pray.

Muhammad is dead and no specific testimony needs to be done, that there is no other god than God is sufficient for me.

However, for someone who accept Islam/Quran as a scripture from God, the testimony may be acceptable in my opinion. To witness (accept) that Muhammad was a Messenger of God. Nothing that is necessary to repeat over and over again though once confessed once.

Jews sort of would require to witness about two messengers then, both Jesus and Muhammad, since they refute the messengership of both of them.

The whole concept of constantly witnessing of messengers seem irrational in my opinion, once you have accepted the Truth.

This testimony (the traditional shahada), is logical to have been used during the life of Muhammad, to distinguish between those who did not accept the Truth. And constant repetition of it could probably also have had a usefulness during this period. It was not shirk, and it was probably also sanctioned by God.

Now, 1400 years later, the traditional shahada is probably still valid, but I doubt it has to be constantly repeated. Like someone has mentioned at some other occasion, it makes more sense to witness that the Quran is the word of God. It carries more weight in my opinion.

Listen to/obey the Messenger is a timeless argument, if there would arise another Messenger this argument would become valid again. The Quran itself is most likely a Messenger too, in a regard.

Anyway, thank you for my words. Conclusion is that it is not wrong to witness that Muhammad was a Messenger of God, but irrelevant to constantly repeat it.

God bless you

i think this is a good conclusion- or we will now start a new discussion about the question what 'witness' mean...?
Salam

Salam Man of Faith

water not only cleans visible dirt, but it has also clearly a big effect on our psyche. I can still remember well my wild teenage years, ) after a night of drinking, or general abuse the best remedy is a cold shower.
Our body is not only our vehicle, but also the mirror of our soul - the body shows how we feel, and will responded with some diseases by a mental health problem. Thus, a physical cleaning is always a mental purification.
A second aspect is related to the understanding of the SALAT. I would like to mention it here imagine if we understand the salat as a practical service in a Masjid (common place for the purpose to submit God), then the washing has clearly also a very practical reason. As we do not like to go dirty in a restaurant or to our friends - so we do not like to enter dirty in a 'house of God'.
So it seems to me possible that the menstruating women stayed away from a public salat, when we think about the hygienic condition in those time.
Salam

Salam Man of Faith

Salaam again,

I did some research, since I got curious after my last post, and read information about the Kabah. I discovered that the Kabah was rebuilt 1627 due to rainwater causing the walls to collapse, it is not illogical that this natural phenomenon could cause it and the old structure was probably vulnerable. The probability that it happened more times over the thousands of years is high.

A remnant wall piece from the old Mosque is still present at the site. And did you know the kabah was not a cubic building?

The Kabah today is probably just a tiny bit of what it once was. And I doubt it was covered in black. It feels the form and black fabric is just to make it an item to worship, it feels like a statue, does it not remind you of pagan worship?

The Kabah today gives me a slight psychedelic feeling to be honest.

I am almost absolutely certain the location is the correct one and I even think Moses came there. I think it was the zamzam well that he came to. Now it is my theory, and I do not claim this, it is only in my philosophies. I also think the mountain Moses went to is somewhat north of Mecca.

I apologize sincerely to those who may have been offended by my words, but this feels like the Truth to me. I feel it has become an item of worship, this cube. It is not a building, it is an object of worship. I do not ridicule anyone for praying toward the Kabah, I do so myself, even if the old sacred Mosque is something else these days. But I certainly want to seek the Truth about the Kabah and I am open to other rational ideas and explanations too.

I feel the same- it is a strong feeling and all the words from Bigmo can't turn my feelings off--- i like the idea to pray together towards one direction- as to concentrate on ONE place= one God... But i have really a problem with the Cube.

Someone said that there was a verse telling Moses people to turn their houses into Qiblahs? The word Qiblah seems to mean a house of prayer rather than a direction for prayer. I felt that Qiblah means a building with some special feature or features. I still think what makes a Qiblah.

The Bible talks about altars, do you think this item is just a piece of paganism or does it have to do with God's religion? Did it have any other use than for sacrifices? Could it be an item of worship which helps you focus on God or is it just a man-made invention?

And the Quran tells us, that slaughter on altars is forbidden and false worship. I think also the hole sacrifice-thing it is an invention- the best 'sacrifice' is to live as a believer and do good- or to slaughter to feed the hungry, nothing else.

Anyone thought about the verse which talks about dressing nice and be clean for the Masjid? I wonder why it says to eat and drink moderately in the same verse. I had that crazy thought that this word does not mean the same thing as it is thought to mean (Masjid). Was a really crazy and controversial thought, I know, but could not help it since it felt so incoherent with Masjid and eat and drink moderately in the same verse. Otherwise I suppose I simply cannot understand God and He knows better. Or does anyone have a rational explanation to this?

i read also an interpretation that 'masjid' means the place for sujud, i.e our mind- (it was in the tafsir from Asad) But when i was young we visited a synagoge and there i feel so happy, because it was really amazing downstairs the men up the women and all children and it was not quite all the people laughing, speaking, eating and drinking; the women brought cakes and food and shared it with others. What i think the real 'masjid' was also a place for eating and drinking and learning- a common place for 'worship' and learn and talk. So the verse who speaks about to not come near the women in the masjids becomes more clear the purpose of the mosque changed until today- the absolut silence and no children etc. is invented also.
,

Just some crazy thoughts. ..

God bless you

God bless you too.

Salam Man of faith
thank you )

Salam Bigmo and all

thank you for your detailed post - the prostrate is actually among all peoples widespread.
So I come to a question that I have already asked in another topic We see that traditional Jews bind a black cube at their front-heads and do prostrate with this (on this?) ,the Shias prostrate on virgin soil of Qerbala and the 'normal' Muslims prostrate themselves in the direction of a black cube. Can we see here not quite clear how 'schaitanic' forces lead people to bow down before something other than Allah?
peace

Salam

They were worshiping idols as you said. What does worshiping idols have to do with praying towards the Ka'ba?

Because the Kaaba is a black cube and the black cube is linked with Saturn worship and Saturn = satan??
I read about saturn death cult and cube cult and i am really not sure if a muslim should pray towards a cube even he knows that this cube is only a symbol- the question remains a symbol for what?
whatever
peace

Salam drfazl

salam mirjamnur,

It is pertinent here to have an introduction about my stand on Quran so that there need not be any interjections. There is a vast difference between understanding by way of sense; and, understanding by way of material human source, the language which only caters to the mind of the current state of affairs of human beings. I only observe and follow the most sensible understanding of Quran and never do I entertain the human dictionaries and their obsolete languages when it is juxtaposed to the sense of Quran. Some 50 years ago, there were only one or two meanings for each word in dictionary; but now hundreds of meanings as thesauruses to each word we speak and they were divulging further and further. There will not be a meaningful end to any discussion if follow the human dictionaries to the words of Allah. If you begin to unravel the words of Allah, the seas of ink and seven more such seas will be blotted out to its last drop, yet, the definitions will not be over. So we lean on to our Ruh, and listen to the sense with our stare not moving away from it.

You say
i think the word in Arabic is killed not died. i don't know if this term includes the "living examples to the ayats of Allah'?
what means the term killed in the way of Allah?

Allah says there is no discrepancy whatsoever between the ayats of Quran; and also, there is no contradiction between one ayat and the other ayats of Quran. Now I am giving another ayat, and you give me an explanation without contradicting or showing any discrepancy in sense, to the ayats mentioned below. You can put any word kill or die wherever you want, but bring sense without contradicting the two ayats below.

3157 And if you are killed in the cause of Allah or die - then forgiveness from Allah and mercy are better than whatever they accumulate in this world.

3169. 171. And reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead; nay, they are alive and are provided sustenance from their God. They rejoice on account of favor from Allah and His grace, and that Allah will not waste the reward of the believers

Once we understand this, thereafter it will be easier to sense the rest of our discussion to the following

You have given references of various humans' preferred outlooks; you can allow my translation as the last. It is for you to choose the best of them all. But by listing them all and keeping all in your mind, you have not applied the ayat 3918 in your crucial time, this.

39.18 Those who hear to the translations, and follow that which makes the best sense those are the ones whom Allah has guided, and those are the ones endued with understanding.

Peace.

I think i understand what you mean. But when i read in 3.166 until 3.1seven3 (sorry the number seven is broken) then the context speaks clear from war for this i'm now not sure if the 'died in the way of Allah/ or killed in the way of Allah' means here concrete killed in the warfare.
I like your interpretation more- but i'm not sure about it- after your conclusions thus all believers in the way of Allah (the believers who do good deeds / aminu wa amilus salihati) would not really die but already dwell in paradise. But what will happen to those on the day of judgment?
God speaks from the fact that He would resurrected on that day ALL the people from their graves, or maybe i understand anything wrong or overlooked something?? In my mind was Sura al Qamar , verse seven - but when i read it now again it could be that Allah speaks here only from the unbelievers? But in the next Aya the unbelievers are mentioned as included in the previous. hmm

Thank you for clarification.

You have given references of various humans' preferred outlooks; you can allow my translation as the last. It is for you to choose the best of them all. But by listing them all and keeping all in your mind, you have not applied the ayat 3918 in your crucial time, this.

Yes i will do that and ponder over the best meaning- may Allah increase my knowledge so that i can understand His word.
Thank you
peace

Salam Maverick

I'll be honest, I don't trust how the hadiths are handled in terms of reliability based on how they compare with outside evidence. I do not reject all hadiths, I'm sure some of them are valid. But Islamic scholarship seems to be a big quagmire of contradiction, uncertainty, and appeals to authority. If I hear one more person quote Ibn Taymiyya, who spent more time going well beyond the Qur'an in his efforts to out-takfir everyone else, I'm going to scream. Islamic scholarship produces both a Tariq Ramadan and an Anwar Al-Awlaki. Quranists are considered guilty of personally interpreting according to their whims, but don't we do pretty much the same thing? We pick a scholar that we like or that we find likeable or more reasonable to our tastes, and we follow him. Aren't we following our own personal choice there, too? If a scholar is a scholar is a scholar, then there is no reason to find Ramadan's call to stop enforcing the penalty of capital crimes any more moral of a choice than a classical scholar like Ibn Taymiyya's call for any person to heed the call to kill a kaffir. Do you see what I'm saying? At some point, scholarship is not enough, and there are a host of moral, procedural, and ethical questions we just have to resolve on our own as best we can. If I want to justify doing something stupid, I can find a scholar or classical jurist to justify it. And I'm getting tired of all of all of the parroting of hadiths and scholars about things that really don't mean crap. Jeans? Music? Pants above the ankles? Circumcision? Which days are best to fast in order to get mad hasanat and have sins forgiven for the next year? Bro, none of these things are explicit in the Qur'an, none of these things address the huge issues facing Islam and humanity in general, and yet the few Muslims that I know in person and online talk about this crap all the time. Just like there is yet another beard post on , saying it is wajib. I'm not growing a beard, and I'm tired of people bringing it up. We've got much bigger problems than the number of people who shave.

I'll be honest, I came real close to just saying, "Screw it, I'm done." a few weeks ago. I got tired of comments from family about being a Muslim (my and my wife's parents), and then talking with Muslims and feeling like they are talking an entirely different language in terms of what is important."

i read your post - there are so many excellent points- i would like ask you maybe if i have change, do you have the same in Arabic? I try to speak with my husband, but he can't really understand, what i like to tell him. Your post is intelligent and logic and with knowledge- thank you for it.
peace

Salam JewishDude

Prophets in Torah/Tanach are not sinless. Look at King David. The Tanach is absolutely clear that he killed Goliath. Hence he killed a man(Giant). In the Torah it is also clear that Moses killed a man (Egyptian). Hence these two prophets were not sinless. Yes you may be able to justify what they did in some way. However, they did commit the sin of killing another human being. And hence they are not sinless. The new testament also shows that Jesus was not without sin. He attacked and beat a money changer at the Temple. Noah was also sinful. He got drunk and slept with his daughter.

Sure prophets are not sinless - but personally i can't believe that story about Noah got drunk and SLEPT WITH HIS DAUGHTER?
We can compare the story from Musa in the Quran with the one in the Torah, we will found a difference also.
Yes prophets are not sinless- but they are leaders. One question again this sin from Noah was before he was before his ministry as prophet?
peace

Salam drfazl

Salam mirjamnur,

The whole write up was based on the ayats of Quran and wherever is needed I have I given the references. Could you be specific in your question, I will try my worth.

hose who died while they were living as witnesses, or, as living examples to the ayats of Allah are not to be called as dead but are raised as living souls; and true to His word, Allah feeds them and dignifies them in His nearness-

3169. 171. And reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead; nay, they are alive and are provided sustenance from their God. They rejoice on account of favor from Allah and His grace, and that Allah will not waste the reward of the believers

i think the word in Arabic is killed not died. i don't know if this term includes the "living examples to the ayats of Allah'?
what means the term killed in the way of Allah?

They are raised to the seven heavens above the lowest sky which we all see as violet in colour in the deep of the night. And the foremost shall be living in the skies of the other six coloured firmaments such as the indigo, blue, green, yellow, orange and the red skies above the first. Allah created the seven skies and the like thereof on the earth that which we see as rainbow

i know there exist many interpretations about 'the seven skies' - your explanation is only one from those interpretations - from where you get that the foremost shall be living in the skies of the other six colored firmaments??

6512. Allah it is who hath created seven heavens, and of the earth the like thereof. The commandment cometh down among them slowly, that ye may know that Allah is Able to do all things, and that Allah surroundeth all things in knowledge.

here other translations
6512 God who created seven heavens and the same number of earths. His command descends between them, that you may know that God is capable of all things, and that God has encompassed all things with His knowledge.3
The Monotheist Group
6512 God who created seven heavens and the same number of Earths. His command descends between them, that you may know that God is capable of all things, and that God has encompassed all things with His knowledge.
Muhammad Asad
6512 GOD is He who has created seven heavens,18 and, like them, of the earth. Through all of them flows down from on high, unceasingly, His will,19 so that you might come to know that God has the power to will anything, and that God encompasses all things with His knowledge.
Rashad Khalifa Seven Universes And Seven Earths
6512 GOD created seven universes and the same number of earths. The commands flow among them. This is to let you know that GOD is Omnipotent, and that GOD is fully aware of all things.3
Shabbir Ahmed
6512 God is He who has created seven cosmic systems, and like them, of the lows. Through all of them descends His command that you may know that God has power over all things. And that God encompasses all things in His knowledge.[/color

The foremost people are raised to the seven skies above to join the righteous bondsmen of Allah; and then later on they would enter the Paradise.

the number seven is probably an allegorical expression for 'many' or 'much'- this just another interpretation for 'seven skies'..
the Quran speaks from seven skies but God never give us details.
peace.

Salam Stop

Thank you. Is there a difference in later judgment? Why do you think it is called "right" and not "justice"?
I don't understand what would be the difference for believers that would put them into the "foremost" group - or are there criteria I am not aware of?

check the 'foremost' in the Quran

Edip-Layth - Quran A Reformist Translation
Chapter 56 - 5610;
Chapter 66 - 665;
The Monotheist Group - The Quran A Pure and Literal Translation
Chapter 56 - 5610;
Muhammad Asad - The Message Of Quran
Chapter 2 - 241;
Chapter 6 - 614; 692; 6163;
Chapter 9 - 9100;
Chapter 25 - 2574;
Chapter 26 - 2651;
Chapter 39 - 3912;
Chapter 42 - 427;
Chapter 56 - 5610;
Rashad Khalifa - The Final Testament
Chapter 43 - 4381;
Shabbir Ahmed -
Chapter 6 - 614; 6163;
Chapter 7 - 7143;
Chapter 9 - 9100;
Chapter 11 - 1127;
Chapter 25 - 2574;
Chapter 26 - 2651;
Chapter 35 - 3532;
Chapter 39 - 3912;
Chapter 42 - 427;
Chapter 43 - 4381;
Chapter 47 - 4720;
Chapter 56 - 5610;
Chapter 57 - 5721;
Chapter 87 - 8715;

from what i understand, they are not 'only' believers- they strict with their body and soul to spread Gods word on earth- they aren't only speakers, no they are doers ) i think you will found topics here about this question - sorry, that i don;t search but i like to sleep )
peace

My grandad just died recently and this question has been on my mind for a bit now.

Does our soul just sleep til the day of judgement yet we still have dreams and such? What IS the soul? I always imagine it as a special kind of energy. It makes sense when i think of a person who dies naturally whilst sleeping, but what about someone who is blown to pieces (god forbid..)? It's difficult imagining where the "nafs" is at that point.

Any thoughts and feelings?

peace

Salam sushi

i personally don't think that we are dreaming after the death until the day of judgement - for me it seems that the Quran tell us that he will resurrect us on this day and AFTER we will see /dream our new life, but i don't study this deeply.
peace

Salam Wakas
I read your article before and i'm agree with you. The concept of sujud falls or holds on with the definiton of SALAT.

In the end i just can say that i love the prostration in my personal prayer, but my personal prayer is not the same as the SALAT prescribed in the Quran. My prayer is the DUA and the PRAISE and i make it more then twice daily.
peace )

Salam

I'm not surprised you are "thrown for a loop" on 20130. When I studied this verse in detail with regard to timings, by taking it literally I could not make it work whatever way I tried, and I tried many. I therefore concluded it most likely is hyperbole or idiom, meaning all the time or lots.

Some have claimed to make this verse work with salat timings etc but all failed when I checked them.

20130 so patient, against, what, they say, and glorify, utilizing praise, your lord, before, rising, the sun, and before, its setting, and from, hours, the night, so glorify, and ends, the daylight, that you, be satisfied.

The verse has (in my opinion) nothing to do with the timing of the Salat. It's an advice for every believer when he/she faces difficulties of insults from disbelievers to praise our Lord all the times. I tried to make a diagramm and after marking all the times for glorifications it seems, that God give us here a wonderful example of His teachings before the sun rise- (birth) in the beginning of the day (youth) , before its setting ( middle age/age) in the end of the daylight, before the dark is coming (old age) and the nights? to wake up from the daily death and remember that once we will not rise the next day... (remember the death in the nigth)
Also an allegory for the seasons ( before the new year, the spring, the summer and then the autumn and the night = winter (died season, cold , ice, frost)
All this clear my own interpretation and thoughts
peace