Edip at some point discussed this issue https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQGmPJY-Lbo

Thanks I am checking it out!

Thanks all for this discussion! Are there any verses that state how men and women should dress during prayer? I don't see in the ayat about wudu that women need to cover everything when they pray? Any logic to this?

Before asking the question, have you read Quran 56 and 443?
If so, the answer is obvious.

Yes i have. Everything seems obvious when i read Quran but then i go into the real world and begin to doubt myself. Its constant struggle to drown things out and not be influenced by your peers and family

Salam all,

I am new to the forum. I'll keep my intro short. I was raised Catholic, but casually (church only on Xmas and Easter) and felt the Bible didn't offer what I wanted. When I learned about Islam, its one God and rejection of pagans, I thought it was wonderful. I was elated. I married a Muslim man, prayed the 5x daily, read the Quran, tried to learn Arabic, wore hijab, etc.

But the more I learned about Hadith, the more I would think "What is this?" When my husband would try to explain Hadith, it just made it worse; not only is Hadith inaccurate, but he didn't even know why he followed it.

Suffice to say, I've grown "tired" of Islamic propaganda and everyone's "holier-than-thou" attitude. However here's where the "double-life" comes in

I'm a pharmacist in a busy location and have been there for several years now. I wear hijab every day, even though I don't believe it is really necesary anymore. Why do I do this? Because I want the general public to have a positive image of a Muslim woman. I've always worn the hijab to work. If I decided to not wear it anymore, my patients would think I've stopped being a Muslim. It is too tedious to explain conventional Islam and "Quran-only" to each and every passerby. So, I continue to wear it.

Now Ramadan is coming and the charade continues. I'll be doing the whole fasting/praying thing. I don't truly truly believe it is all necessary, but what kind of Muslim woman doesn't do these things?

So that's where things stand right now.

Peace all,
Lynn

Thank you for your post. I am in similar way only i dont wear hijab. However i recently married into muslim family. It is alot easier to practice the way you believe when you are alone. Now my husband is trying to teach me the right way to do things and i just nod and say okay as to not be troublesome. God knows my thoughts and so I cannot lie to Him but sometimes it is easier to blend in than to stand out.

Do you wear hijab when you are praying alone at home? I never understood the purpose of that as if God cannot see all of me at all times. I thought covering was to make men feel better about themselves...note sarcasm.

Does the Qur'an require us to perform full body bath after sex

Thank you brothers

Thank you for posting this!
I had similiar question. I understand we need to bathe..i mean who wouldnt want to? but what about the ritualistic steps during the bathe? See video below. Is all this from hadith? And if you don't do ghusl exactly like this then you are still considered dirty??
And God wont accept your prayers?

https//youtu.be/PEgUbg9YuCA

I am sorry you are going through such bad times. May God heal you

Peace everyone,

Allah's ayaat/signs are not found ONLY in Quran as per al-quran itself.

4153 We will show them ayaatina/our signs in the horizons, and within themselves, until it becomes clear to them that this is the truth. Is it not enough that your lord is witness over all things?

The signs/ayaat are in the horizons (which includes other books, the universe etc.) and within ourselves (inner compass/conscience 3030) also and not in Quran alone. ALL THOSE VERIFIED SIGNS SHOULD MATCH AND NOT CONTRADICT and that is the yardstick to verify any truth including al-quran itself.

Saying "Quran alone" means allah's signs are found ONLY in Quran which is inventing a lie and it definitely contradicts al-quran itself and also contradicts the divine signs being present in the horizons and within ourselves.

How to figure out which signs are of divine origin? Use the inner compass/conscience (3030), mind/reason (numerous signs), knowledge (1736), other real world evidence (4153). All those signs should match and not contradict for them to be of divine origin. If any sign contradicts with the other known and verified signs, it can be discarded as a lie and a fabrication.

The first step into entering the deen/system of "islam"/peacemaking is actually ALLAH ALONE and not "Quran alone". "Quran alone" is still a step in the wrong direction. Al-quran contains signs of divine origin for our guidance, but they are not the ONLY signs of divine origin.

Peace

this makes sense as well, well said. i see the distinction now

I sdo not think people who say Qur'an Alone mean Qur'an instead of God. God is a given, what they mean is that they do not take humans' words together with God's words such as in the Qur'an.

To speak of Qur'an alone as contradicting God alone seems to me nitpicking.

On the other hand God alone for what? Once we start nitpicking we can go very far. No accuracy will be enough.

Salaam

I was thinking this same thing! It seems to be just semantics but the meaning is implied following Quran alone means following God's word alone.

Peace all,

You've read the title, we all know that the Qur'an Alone movement is full of people who are at times very confused (myself included!), we need to be honest about these things and face the fact that there is so much dischord and confusion - perhaps the problem is in a misguided belief that by throwing away the Hadith we will all be headed on the same path in the same direction and at the same point in the road and hence be some enlightened group, but I doubt I am alone in my perceptions. I know many people who used to frequent this forum are now probably no longer Muslims by their own considerations, what keeps those others here and what makes you confident and comfortable in your Qur'an alone ways?

I start this thread in order to begin a thought provoking exercise, there have been 3 people frequenting the forums recently who are clearly non-Muslims/Submitters and they are welcome to participate in this discussion as it should prove to be quite an interesting debate between themselves and the more staunch and resolute Submitters?/Muslims?/People who believe the Qur'an to be divine and unchanged? members.

I use to frequent this site often a couple of years ago but as the conversations died down (I didn't see the vets around anymore ) and I progressed on my journey I stopped coming. Recently in the past year I have really had these same concerns but no one to discuss them with. I look forward to reading through this thread and hopefully can add to the discussion! Also what a coincidence this was posted on my bday!

bumpity bump bump

Age25
Sex F
Location indiana, USA
MS single

The situation in the world today is shaped by geopolitics, war, business, and then a mixture of culture and religion can come into play. To say that Islam is a big contradition is missing the precise vocabularly required to deal with this topic. It's not Islam, its humans, its a set of factions. This has gone on since humans began. The way the hadiths are used even - there is still an issue of corruption there. I do not follow hadith and there are many that go against the Quran, but hadith can still be misused like any other text.

Well if people were to research Islam independently the first thing they come across is the Quran. I have come across non-Muslims who say they never heard of the hadith at first and they only read the Quran to find out more. So some of the first ideas they can come across is oneness of God, mercy of God, etc. Everyone also has the opportunity to understand that God is uncreated etc as well via observation of the world/universe around them, as did Abraham. If they do their own research, they could also question why Hadith are followed when you take a look at what the Quran says.

yes it is humans and not religion...but it seems as if humans serve to be the mascot of Islam. we are all the representatives of what we claim to follow/believe in(whether we are following that thing in the correct way or not). well when i converted I had heard of hadith but i thought that it was an extension of the Quran...but when I read more I learned that it was a separate entity however that led to even more confusion for me. the sisters who were helping me to transition to Islam said the same things as you SupportPeace,,,follow the religion not the people,,,well unless you are a strong willed individual, (especially as a convert) it is very intimating to be in a social group...say at the Masjid, and being told to do this and do that and not to say this but to say this instead...especially when those people have good intentions and just want to help you to learn all the many many rules involved with Islam (at least from their point of view). and who wants to have been an outsider in their former religion only to come to a new one with so many expectations only to find out it is the same man-made circus and they will have to be an outsider all over again? it is not fun.

and yes i know religion are man made things but for lack of another word to use to describe the dogmas and rules and regulations inside a set of beliefs i just say religion.

anyway my original point is that i really cant expect someone in my family or my friends or just random people i have conversation with to understand that Islam is really not what it seems to be, because no matter where you turn you are confronted with one type of dogma or another. the only way to understand is to discover it and explore it for yourself. and even then you will be confronted with people who will patronize you and even condemn you for what you think ...Im in the U.S and i find this to be a lonely journey... i cant even imagine the hardships other Quran alone muslims in Islamic countries must be going through. And believe me I am the most introvert person you will ever meet and i dont even like to be bothered with people, but on topics regarding your soul it is nice to know if you are really on the right track or not.

anyway thanks God for this site and all of you

now ive seen zakir naiks lectures but never watched for more than a few minutes. i have followed ahmad deedat moreso...ive read most of his books/pamphlets and watched many of his debates. i always thought his arguments to be rational? but i havent been able to find his stance on hadith and many of the controversial topics that are stated therein and not in Quran. Im guessing you all consider him another silver tongued fox as well? lol. when i was watching him it was mostly before I converted...not so much since then but I still have his books. was he a good level headed speaker for Islam?

Im sure this has been asked before but I have not seen it yet..but I always wonder if we were with God before we were born, how come we don't remember anything? How come the earliest memories most of us have of existing are from random, scattered projections from our childhood. I remember reading somewhere that the infant/toddler mind is the most receptive to our environment and to God because our subconscious hasn't been crowded with junk and schematics to tell us how to think, and what to believe. So then why can't we remember infancy? Why does it seem like we grow farther away from our true nature the older we get, and our subconscious is harder to access (even if we weren't engulfed by sin and the evil things in this world)? I always associate dying and ceasing to exist with deep darkness, and no sound at all like you are in a vacuum in space. Even though I believe in Heaven and Hell, logically I feel as if death is followed by the same nothingness that comes to mind when I try to recall my early existence. To try to envision myself as "spirit/energy" without my body seems too...cartoonish to me. I feel like it must be something unimaginable. Maybe that is way God left us with no recollection or perception of ourselves before our births.

Just some thoughts...

Respected brother,
I wrote to you in the post just above your this reply regarding 'dhakir' which you ignored, I read many of your post and do sense your passion for knowledge I see in your Reply 31 above a mixed up between Slaa and dhkir, this time allow me to give you reference from the Qur?aan 4103 And when you have completed the prayer, remember Allah standing, sitting, or on your sides .......
Bit of my understanding below

Requirement for Slaa you need ;

1. Before Slaa
   a.) wadu / purification of bodily side
   b.) Clear mind free from all sorts of intoxicant so that you know what you are saying.

a.) As you raise your hand to your head to start saying ALLAAHu Akbar you disconnect from world around and your face, nafs/mind focused on qibla
b.) your outward/ bodily actions signify greater depth regarding signs and number of raka dealing with calculations etc, which I am praying to learn that soon insha?ALLAAH

dhkir/ ALLAAH's REMEMBRANCE and His COMMEMORATION

a) No requirement for wadu and as you are in the middle of mixing up with world around you, do zikr in that state ie remember your creator.
b) No formal action/positions required.

salaam +

I have recently read a new idea I never heard which argues it not so correct to say Allahu Akbar because of some literacy technicality --this blogpost goes into detail
http//teddy3indc.com/2013/07/01/do-not-say-allah-akbar/--

for those of you who are native arabic speakers is it better to say Allahu Kabiru or Allahu Takbiru?

is there agreement on the number of prayers? 3 or 5? i am still confused on this matter. is it that 5 times are mentioned in Quran but only 3 were made obligatory? or that 5 obligatory prayers were mentioned. or is this matter unimportant detail? i dont know if anyone has used this site as reference but i just came across it--this author advocates for 5.

http//www.quranalone.com/the-quran/appendices/appendix-15.php

Salam!

this is a cool idea but one would also have to include all the bad, ugly things (big and small) they have done as well--which i think is much harder.

Funny, I was thinking the same thing!

peace

yes im glad im not the only one!! ;D

Why the panic? Really ask that you understand what Ramadan is from the Koran only.

As for me, this month will be no different than other months.

thats the point i don't understand the duties that are from the quran and the duties that are from hadith. anyway i will do a search to figure things out. confused

oh the 10th??? i read somewhere it was the 8th or 9th ugh

omgosh please help--i didn't realize ramadan started already, this will be my first one as a convert...how are things different or the same as quran only muslim vs. traditional/sunni muslim? are there any ayats that clarify things? ahh im panicky-ing brickwall confused brickwall & brickwalln o brickwall

Peace tigress,

I am sorry you feel this way. I can see my belief is incompatible with yours since in my system God is always near and will listen to our prayers. Also I can understand it is easy to fall to this conclusion if one gives up too fast instead of continuing with steadfastness and patience. And thus God will not offer His weighty Message that He is with you.

My thread was intended to help people see that we need to build up a certain level of Nearness before we will see results in our relationship to God. Our Creator first tests our intelligence and test us in many other ways such as through patience and steadfastness. This does not say that God does not do anything prior to this, but then we have to be perceptive and keep an open mind.

As my thread tries to teach; when we have Nearness we will pretty much automatically also have Guidance. Greater Nearness may mean that God will show signs in our daily lives, often small and subtle, but the optimist will surely see them.

When we are gaining the next level, Knowledge and Wisdom, the previous part of the chain will have become strengthened, and I am sure most of those blessed with this level of awareness will see miracles pretty much on a daily basis.

Not to mention when you reach the third category, Peace and Prosperity, as then you will see a boost in provisions and those good things in life.

God bless you

Yes I agree with you --God does hear and see everything there is no question on that. I can't say that our beliefs are incompatible, I am just trying to know what is possible and what is not. I know patience is important but at some point there is diminishing returns. Either something is going to happen or it is not; and no amount of faith or patience is going to change something that is not in written in Gods book IMO.
Thanks for taking time to make this thread and I will continue to read