General Issues / Questions

Peace Amin, I didnt say that, every one of us need GOD or Gods message I misunderstood then. You had said not everyone needs quran. Quran being God's message. is Quran the only source one gets the message No. does not other events in this worlds that reminds us of GOD and his message Yes, however, going in line with the context of this thread, it is alleging that we don't need quran, because there are other sources. THAT is what I disagree with. i said God decide this, how to guide him whether through Quran , Hadeeth... Quran is the best hadeeth. or thorugh some other means events in their life, the result is independent of the source and decided by God alone whether he followed the right path Sure and I agree with you, but it is very important to clarify that we are not negating quran because of other sources. This is what I'm trying to emphasize. This is what the original posting on this thread is about. The questioner (ichepheren) is asking, if I understand correctly, if we have all these other signs, which one doesn't even need to be literate to get guidance, why do we need revelation, at all? See what I mean now? My argument is not at all with what you're saying. I hope I'm clear. Even each one of us understand Quran differently and so lot of posts in this forum and everywhere. ?? Yes, we are all different. we are all the same. Peace

Sorry Samia, but that doesn't make enmity a verb. Enmity can only be shown you don't eat it and it isn't a verb. if you can show us in any book that "showed enmity" is a verb then that would be different. Thank you for everything but lets call it a day.

Peace Navid Peace I completely agree it's human nature to question where we come from. I just saying that asking where God comes from or who created God is absurd Right, I wasnt disagreeing with you. I just added on to the statement. Peace

peace all, The question if Al Quran says one thing and your inner compass says another... what do you do? Sorry to be short and slightly vague, but sometimes its necessary. Your inner compass may be set off course by the metal of Shaitan working upon it. Anyway if God tells me yes I won't insist on no

Samia I understand you and you understand me. We do not agree!! Do you mean the prophet fought and killed those who refused to convert? I disagree here. He behaved as the quraan orders him (and us) no killing of those who refuse to convert just for that reason. No compulsion. Did he fight the people of the book in order to convert them? If he is a messenger of all the world, and his mission is to convert everyone, why did he fight some but not the others? He travelled and fought to deliver the message and killed the transgressants, and those who fought him to block the message from the masses. Why didn't he fight the kings of Abyssinia and of Egypt? These two countries continued to be Christians a long time after him. But he fought the Romans who were also Christians. I am sorry to say then you may have not gone through many verses which talk about "Captives/Slaves" "Jihaad" etc. Samia He travelled and fought to deliver the message and killed the transgressants, and those who fought him to block the message from the masses. So he Killed, why? While answering this may be you will arrive at what I failed to made you understand. Samia Why didn't he fight the kings of Abyssinia and of Egypt? These two countries continued to be Christians a long time after him. But he fought the Romans who were also Christians So he fought, WHy? Samia Did he fight the people of the book in order to convert them? If he is a messenger of all the world, and his mission is to convert everyone, why did he fight some but not the others? The time from which he was appointed as a Messanger till his death, he tried to fullfill his mission through travelling, Preaching, Killing, Fighting, Pardoning, may be if he lived further Abyssinia and Egypt would also be included in the list.

Peace, well if you tell them you're muslim, they'll inevitably put you in the same basket as hadith followers. Non muslims do not really understand what quran alone. i don't think any of them know the term "hadith", or what that implies. so what would you guys say would be the average age of those that are on this forum?

Well, I guess these tablighies can be different in different places. I've had some interaction with some tablighies in Pakistan, and they are just like the rest of the population, i.e. a diverse mix. You will find hypocrites whom you just have to detest, and you will also find very nice, gentle and balanced people. They are all different, like the population in general. I'm not fond of sunnism, or any other dogmatic system for that matter, but some people really try to do good. Perhaps they are not very openminded all the time, but they try to do good within their limited scope, without hurting or offending people... and then there are of course idiots as well, but hey, such is life and this world... no group is homogeneous, people are people all over the world in every creed, whether they call themselves tablighi jamaat, salvation army or oak brook ornithologists. But yeah, I know what you mean

When you go to the original video, you can hear better and see a bit on the on paper she's pointing to. http//youtube.com/watch?v=5WztB6HzXxI As best I could discern, I heard and saw 'kite, kit, sealed, playing'.

Salaams All, http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=11523.msg77955#msg77955 God Bless. MZ All of the above translations are wrong/twisted , disregarding simple grammar with an intent to negate the trandional thinking regarding MMA. You may pick up any ayah and we can thrash it in detail (The arabic) siki

Ok thanks

Religion is indeed the world most bloody and serious hobby that people engage in. The answer of the imam to this girl is just silly. Why can't this girl just do the normal rituals and get it over with, at least to let everything go peaceful for all people attending etc... I mean, she doesn't believe in the rituals anyway, and she doesn't do them for herself... it's just a cultural thing to finish off the funeral... big deal. I mean, I keep seeing so many hypocrites in the religions, so I'm "sure" that the imam is no better than the girl anyway... let her just get it over with.... why does religion always have to instill doubt, fear and insecurity? Amazing.

Salam VVA and welcome to the forum ) If you want to know about the true message of the different religion, i suggest you read articles on internet, and especially all the articles here at free-minds.org, and at 19.org etc. Or buy books about critical thinking in religions at amazon.com. I think internett is a very powerful weapon, and that you can learn almost anything at the internett buy searching for the stuff you want to know about in for example google.com. Some of the students at free-minds knows more about Islam than people that have went to universities, so i don't think it is important to go to an university to learn about religion, especially since you can learn ten times more just by reading articles and buy books and doing self-study at home. I don't think the true message of different religions will be discussed by detail in the universities, because the universities mostlly learn people about the mainstream beliefs, and most of those beliefs are fake. An example of that is that Hadith is a part of Islam and should be used as lawbooks, and that Jesus is the son of God. These are all fake beliefs that consists in the mainstream teachings. But these are my of opinions, and it doesn't mean that all universities are teaching the the mainstream beliefs as there actually can be iniversities that learn some of the true messages in the different religions, but if you ask me, i think none of them can learn people all the true messages yet, because that needs courage, and can be dangerous since many mainstream muslims or Christians can demonstrate violently against it. If i was you i would have done a self-study at home through the internett, and by reading different books about the religions. I personally think it is a wasting of time buy using 1 or 2 years to study about religion at a university, unless you are gonna study further in there or finish and education and work with religion for the rest of your life. Your friend David..

Ok i understand now. Reminds me slightly of my own situation with my friend of tombstone.hi5.com

Salaam POF "Rijaal" does not primarily mean "men". It means those who seek; on foot. It could be "men" or "women". Also, "nisaa'" is not the plural of "imra'a" but the plural of "nas' " the delayed; remainder, left behind. We find both meanings in the quraan. Dear Samia Thanks for input You said Rijaal" does not primarily mean "men". Whenever "Rajulun" is in the meaning of "sex" of human beings it is always "man" never "woman" In fact 'rijaal' (when it is plural of "rajulun= man&quot does mean "men" primarily " . ( 11 / 265) ( ) / ( ) You are confusing this "rijaal" when it becomes plural of "raajilun" which means "pedestrian" then no doubt it is used for "men" or woman" commonly.But then it does not mean "woman" but " pedestrian" This is the meaning of "pedestrian" which is given in your quoted verse 2227 (2227) and make a proclamation to the people to come to you for Hajj from far and near, on foot and on lean *46 camels 022.027 YUSUFALI "And proclaim the Pilgrimage among men they will come to thee on foot and (mounted) on every kind of camel, lean on account of journeys through deep and distant mountain highways; PICKTHAL And proclaim unto mankind the pilgrimage. They will come unto thee on foot and on every lean camel; they will come from every deep ravine, SHAKIR And proclaim among men the Pilgrimage they will come to you on foot and on every lean camel, coming from every remote path, This word "rijaalan" in this verse is not in the meaning of" sex" rather in the meaning of "state" of their coming i.e on foot. You also said Also, "nisaa'" is not the plural of "imra'a" but the plural of "nas' " I do not know your source of information; "Nisaa" is the plural of "imra3atun" / ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( 3 / 480) . ( 15 / 321) ( ) ( 1 / 8621) ( ) ( ) Your whole concept is revolving aroung the verse 4127 No doubt the question is about "Nisaa" and its answer is expanded. The reason is "Kuffar" used not give inheritance to women,orphans and Younger ones.It is the reason answer is expanded collectively because of similar treatment carried out in case of inheritance by Kuffaar. It does not mean at all the word "nisaa" itself contain all those meanings. Because in that all other verses which contain this word will be compromised in case of meaning.

Peace all I am still waiting to hear from IRFI about a possible debate with Dr Zakir Naik. Once I have some info, I will post it on here and contact you Edip. Is there anyone else in the UK who would like to be a part of this debate? I dont know if anyone has seen the recent debates with a Hindu 'scholar' and Dr Naik. Interesting stuff. Well structured. Dont mean to promote him - but hes got a channel almost all to himself on Sky TV. I personally think that a debate with sunnis should centre around what the deen of islam really is. a word I mentioned to one of the chaps from IRFI was 'Freedom'. He didnt get the concept as I do. From what I understand, he thought that it wasnt really 'freedom' if most of the things that happen in your daily life hadnt been given a 'formula' to follow. My point being, that you are free to choose how you cut your fingernails, what clothes you wear provided they meet the criteria given in the quran, which gives you all you need for guidance and allows you as a human to make up your own mind about things... d

hey Jiao, salam. i am a monotheist, a muslim, a hanif, who follows only Quran (as opposed to hadith and sunna) but does not limit guidance to the Quran, or Truth to "Islam". and if all the trees on Earth were made into pens, and the ocean were supplied by seven more oceans, the words of God would not run out. God is Noble, Wise. welcome to the forum. sun

I dunno, but i feel like to some, saying they are muslim or christian is just to be part of the community, you know just to look "right" to the community, to "fit in", to do it the "widely known and believed way".

Heh, it's more to do with human elements or say utilising/endorsing the Fibonacci sequence for example, in a fitting setting rather than just the sequence itself in a way. It's difficult trying to find one since I haven't come across any suited to the assignment in question. The question is a bit specific so thus harder to please .

How unfortunate that such invaluable items fall into private hands. Good point! peace

Peace SHM, 53 Forbidden to you is that which is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was sacrificed to other than God, and that which has been strangled, and that which has been beaten to death, and that which has fallen from a height, and that which has been gored, and that which the wild animals have eaten from except what you managed to rescue, and what has been slaughtered on alters, and what you divide by the arrows of chance. This is all vile. Today the rejecters have given up from your system, so do not fear them, but fear Me. Today I have perfected your system/deen for you, and completed My blessings upon you, and I have accepted submission/islam as the system/obligation/deen for you. So, whoever is forced by severe hunger and not seeking sin, then God is Forgiving, Merciful. From the above ISLAM/submission = DEEN/system/obligation The context is religious laws of forbidden foods. 2256 There is no compulsion in the system/obligation/deen; the proper way has been made clear from the wrong way. Whoever rejects evil, and believes in God, then he has grasped the most solid branch that will never break. God is Hearer, Knower. From the above, no compulsion in deen/obligation. Combining the two, no compulsion in submission to God. Thus no compulsion in following religious laws such as forbidden foods, with no punishment in this life for eating forbidden foods. Now, if we study all the signs dealing with worldly punishments, we see that those punishments are only for violating some kind of fundamental human rights, or when one harms others in the society; for example stealing, murder, pornography etc. Hence, al-qur'aan differentiates religious laws (such as forbidden foods, dress codes, forbidden relations, inheritance laws, ribaa etc.) for which no punishment in this life for violation, from the social laws (stealing, murder, pornography etc.) for which there is punishment in this life for violation. Yep... makes sense to me, too.