General Issues / Questions

peace all, I thought of something interesting recently, regarding 1736, so I'm wondering how do you interpret it? To me, it seems you should not follow that which you have no knowledge of. With respect to al quran, this to me, clearly demonstartes a gradual understanding and implementing approach. By that I mean there is no way (or its highly unlikely) that one should implement everything they read in al quran in one go, say after reading it a few times, as its highly unlikely they'll understand everything so quickly. This leads one to establish the fundamentals, and grounding oneself in the fundamentals before pursuing the details, i.e. a gradual understanding and implementing approach. This is the way I've always seen it, but until now, never made the connection between this view and 1736. Any thoughts? Wakas

SaLaM... I wont bore with long mumbo jumbo crap... but a simple fact.. There is a sunni here who will just go on and on about how we are wrong and he right.. whenever he makes a claim about his hadeeths.. we show him that it is wrong .. and we back it up with the Quran... But he refuses to learn or understand... y is this? Quran certainly talks about ppl like him ... in many surahs and many verses.. but not only do he and all the sunnis chose to reject those verses.. but they make lame attempts to prove the Quran wrong... The only thing i can say is... May God guide them, sunnis, and him... PrinceZed

peace, his illogical ramblings and even his style of debating are identical to DoctorNo's, he even calls his own sect Sunnism, something Sunnis never do (they always refer to it as true Islam roll he says he loves Muhammad more then God something unheard of even in Sunnism, he seems to take verses out of context (95 and all that) saying that these verses tell us we can kill disbelievers, which is something the enemies of Islam usually do, when he talks about God (also he never refer to Allah as God which is something DoctorNo did to make it seem like we don't serve the God Almighty) he doesn't seem sincere at all, I'm beyond convinced this is DoctorNo, not because of all that but when I listen to him it sounds EXACTLY like DoctorNo, just converted to extreme Sunnism D , the way he types, his attitude in his words, the way he debates, everything mirrors DoctorNo perfectly, HECK EVEN THE THE WAY HE RESPONDS, GIVING ONE REPLY FOR EACH PERSON THAT HAS RESPONDED TO HIM SINCE HIS LAST MIRRORS DoctorNo, his flooding of the board, his constant replying within a short period of time, all mirror DoctorNo and the site in his signature, he doesn't even post at the forum or anything, I checked, somebody check their ips for similarity (though I highly doubt its the same ips because they banned DoctorNo's last one I believed), check Muhammad Jafar's too wink, but if you guys didn't ban his last ip make sure to check the old posts in case he changes his ip after seeing this too, but he could have also changed his ip since his last sn (which was DoctorNo) when responding to the claims of Sunnism and Shiitism's acts of violence he says things like this What about your "own" Qur'an The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter; if he only knew that this same verse is in EVERY single Qu'ran translation D me, zenje, and Danish all recognized him as DoctorNo at once http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1526 Danish If you remember DoctorNo, although quite learned but possessed no wisdom to reason and think, had spreaded filth all over the forum and was ultimately degraded, defamed, debunked and thrown out. The same sorta situation we are once again witnessing, only this time it isn't a DOCTOR but a PRINCE. Zenje Funny you should mention that... that's exactly who I remembered when I first saw his posts! 'Free minds' think alike! Me OMG are you guys forreal? that's exactly who he reminded me of too, you can ask Nabi, I was talking to him about it last night, ummm I think this might mean something? alias? I think DoctorNo is on the bottle again D peace

Hello I found that site featuring researches of Dr Ahmed Sobhy Mansour, an Egyptian scholar who seems to be against hadith. I only read one of his articles about rajm (stoning) in Arabic and it contains very interesting insights to the early islamic history. I would suggests you to check it out, especially princeZed. Btw this guy was an azhar scholar and got his phd from there. You can see his CV on the site too http//ahmed.g3z.com/

I just had an epiphany, you know, realized something. Wonder what your take is on it.. Go back in history, just before Muhammad's time. People were given prior scriptures. They distorted the messages. Most noticibly 1-A prophet called Issa was hero worshipped all the way to being part of some trinity. Jesus taken to the status of god. 2-People bogged down by silly worthless rituals. 3-People using no upstairs, no brains, no rationality behind their 'faith' in the perversions, and fighting anyone who challenged that mentality. 4-People adding alleged words of another human into the holy scriptures, and giving them more value than the actual scripture. The additions in bible and all. Then, Prophet Muhammad comes, get a wahi, and changes the entire ignorance into enlightenment. Using Quran, he changes everything. He eliminates hero worshipping. Eliminated rituals. Quran taught his followers to use their heads. Quran alone was the source of guidance, preserved for atleast two more centuries. Now look at the present world 1- A prophet called Muhammad, although not taken to the same status as Issa in Christianity, is still given more value than he ever intended or Quran gives. 2-People bogged down by silly worthless rituals. 3-People using no upstairs, no brains, no rationality behind their 'faith' in the perversions, and fighting anyone who challenged that mentality. 4-People adding alleged words of another human into the holy scriptures, and giving them more value than the actual scripture. The additions such as hadiths. Do you see the remarkable resemblence in the 'state' of human mentality? After so many centuries, have we humans REALLY progressed, as we like to boast?

Peace, I've been browsing your posts over the last couple of days. Both of your arguments lack logic and honesty. That's what it boils down to. It takes plain common sense and honesty. I've read all of your posts you two have put out and they lack both of those elements. Here's what I'd like to do....We all agree that the Quran is the Foundation of GOD's system. GOD has described it as being Al-Furqaan, therefore we should begin any and all discussions concerning Islam from the light of the Quran, correct? In order for either one of us to validate our claims and views, you two being hadith, sahaba and sheik worshippers, and me worshipping GOD Alone and following Quran alone, it should ALWAYS, ALWAYS be backed up and validated by the Quran? We'll choose a number of topics of discussion and see who's views and claims are validated and backed by not only GOD's book, but more importantly, by GOD HIMSELF!!! Peace, Damon.

Salam to all May be some one already thought on this subject , but I think princeZED is posting here on this forum is a calculating effort to discredit people on freemind forum, His post is or are written by atleast 15 to 20 people, who are trying to post as much as they can and as fast as they can, what they are not realizing is that they are authanciating all the statement about shia or sunni that freemind is been claiming, they are leaving all the evedence we need for the Peopele who will in the future come to this sight and read about us and once they will read what he and his team has written, they will realize what people on this forum have been claming all along. No one person can post a post as fast and as longe a post in this short time, it is a dead giveaway postman

Hi all, This is my first post, so I thought why not start with something fun! Here's a poll with those who are living...I'm just wondering what you all might think their eternal fate would be like. D (

Peace brothers and sisters, The Qur'an tells us that every civilization received a messenger, and the names of some have been mentioned in the Qur'an, yet many are not mentioned. I'd like to float an idea past you crazy kids. It is quite possible that Buddha was a messenger. It is also quite possible that Lao Tzu was a messenger, obviously among others. One of the things I find fascinating as a universal concept is meditation. We know the Prophet used to meditate in his cave well before he received divine guidance, and he developed the reputation for being a good, patient, and trustworthy person well before he was the messenger. Meditation is also heavily prescribed in the Taoist and Buddhist philosophies. Prayer is very similar to meditation, if heartfelt. I would go as far as to say that extended prayer is the same as meditation in that one is attemtpting to turn off the inner dialogue of the mind and tune into to the subconscious in order to connect with God. It is when completely tuned in that one feels a direct connection to God. My mother prays five times a day, the Sunni way, and she tells me that sometimes her mind is occupied during prayer and sometimes she feels connected, or tuned in. I have also felt this connection at times in my life. The point I am trying to make is that perhaps Gabriel is an eternal "frequency", if you will. Anyone can tune in occassionally with practice. However, very few were granted the ability to tune in unadulterated on a regular basis. God calls these few the messengers. Your thoughts, experiences? Peace, Tay

For those who do not know, I have been raised as a Sunni. I have followed the sunni way of life all my life. I got pretty devout about 3 years ago. About the same time, I started researching the origins of Christianity and how the religion developed. It used to be my favorite topic of discussion. Used to talk about it with a lot of people. Anyways, mentioning this has a point which I will get to in a second. Fast forward 2 years. I move away from home and am now at college. I start to look into the origins of Islam. I am shocked and literally horrified by the parrallels I saw between the development of Islam and Christianity. The development and influences of the hadith were very similar to those of the New Testament. At this point I start to re-examine my beliefs and Islam in general. I stumble upon this site and Aadid Safars book. Eye opening. Now I'm no expert in Arabic so I don't really know how accurate Safar is. Nevertheless much of what he says about the Kabaa make a lot of sense. I find it really hard to believe that Abraham would smash a bunch of idols and then go make his own. Why am I bowing down to a man made thing anyways?? At this point I stop bowing down towards Mecca. Since then I've been trying to figure out exactly what Islam is. How much of what we have existed back in the day of the prophet and how does modern day Islam differ from the the Islam described by Allah. Recently my thoughts have been really back and forth. -Quran tells us not to follow things blindly -I followed the religion of my fathers almost blindly -My practices such as Prayer come from non-Quranic sources -Quran claims to be complete and a clear explanation for everything -How could it have ommitted such an important subject -Follow the Messenger -The Messenger followed only what was inspired to him Here are the big problems I have -Historical records even from non-Muslim sources suggest that Muslims from very very early on used to practice Islam much like the Sunnis -When I read the Quran I find a different Islam than the Sunni Islam -Did the Messenger really set down the kind of Islam that has been practiced all these year? Early sources suggest that Islam has always been like this. How could people have strayed from the path of Allah so quickly?? -Christians strayed from the path within the first 50 years of Jesus crucifixion -How could thousands of refrences about the things Muhammad did and say be false? -The fact the the Messenger has been called Muhammad all these years might be a clue. Muhammad is used in the Quran only as a description of the Messenger. It is not his name. His name is Ahmed. This is the name that is fortold in the books of Christians, Jews and even Hindus. So if people have lost the name of the Messenger, such an important thing and basic thing, what else have they forgotten/picked up?!! The fact that we have forgotten his name is starttling! -Theres no record of Mecca being a busy trade route like suggested by Islamic tradition -Quran says that the maqam of Abraham is in Becca. -Muslims say the maqam is the foot print of Abraham and Becca is Mecca -The valley of Becca as its still known today is located in Israel -Was Safar right when he said that maqam simply means status? -Is the kabah really a sacred shrine or is it an ancient idol? -How could early muslims have bowed down to an idol? Makes no sense. I would think that this was actually what the messenger used to do. -Quran tells us not to bow down to anything -Quran tells us to prostrate. Does this mean bowing toward Mecca -Sunnis/Shiahs don't bow down to the Kabah, rather they bow in that direction. So thats not shirk or is it? -To God belongs the east and west so why bow towards any direction -According to tradition this verse refers to the point when the Prophet changed direction from Jerusalem to Mecca. -Is this a true story? Don't know -Quran says don't rely on baseless narrations -How could so many records of the prophet praying in the way he did be wrong? -New testament and refrences to Jesus -Am I looking too much into this? Am I making things up? Am I being influenced by the wrong people? -Quran says I should search for knowledge. Life is a stuggle. Best of people are those who see what is best and follow it. Truth stands clear from error -Bowing down to the Kabah seems wrong -Is Safar right about how certain words have been mistranlated? -Early Islam was basically how it is today as pointed out by Frank -Did people go astray so soon after the Messenger? Very hard to believe yet I look at the Christians and I see a very similar story -Final judement should come from the Quran -If I follow the Quran, I cannot be misguided -If I misinterpret the Quran, I'm screwed when I meet Allah -Interpret the Quran as it has been interpretted by scholars for more than a thousand years. Don't go against history -And they will say ?Our Lord, we have obeyed our leaders and our LEARNED ONES, but they misled us from the path.? (3367) -I really want to believe that what I have been taught since childhood is true -Quran warns against such a mind set -Rely on scholars -Quran warns against that -Bow down towards Mecca as Muslims have done since pretty much the start -Not sure if this was added I don't know what to believe. All I know is that I should judge by the Quran. -If I follow tradition and end up being wrong, Allah might tell me that he warned me not to follow other narrarations(hadith) -If I base my beliefs on the Quran and end up mistranslating it. Allah might tell me that I disobeyed the messenger and created my own ways Its driving me crazy. Don't know whats right anymore.

What is the Holy Spirit from a Quranic perspective?

Salaam Aleuikum. I was asked if I am a Shia. No, I am a Muslim and that is all that matters. Alhamdulialah I practice Islam as it has been since the beginning. Muslim only, no sect. I follow the correct/straight path, that Rasool-Allah(PBUH) followed. People call this Sunni. I have been called Wahhabi before and Salafi(Though it has been proven that those 2 so-called sects are a myth) but have never been suspected of being a Shia -P. Nay, I am neither Sunni or Shia but a Muslim whom follows the Quran first and then Sunnah/Hadith as commanded by Allah in the Qu'ran and to obey the Prophet(PBUH). That is how it should be and is. Thank You Brothers and Sister for welcoming me.

"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. ( From the KJV Bible, Matthew 65-8 )" intresting thing too is the ancient Jewish prayer ritual goes like this http//www.submission.org/jews.html http//www.aol40.com/que11.htm D go to these sites to see how the "salat prayer", hajj, and Ramadan (a few rituals in it at most) of today are Jewish, pagan Hindu and Zoroastrian rituals mixed together http//www.hinduism.co.za/kaabaa.htm the 5 prayers a day to the kaaba (which is also as rip off of the Zoroastrian ritual), the hajj rituals, the watching out for the moon to start the monthly fasting, etc. were all rip offs of Hinduism, it's not they just made up these salat and hajj rituals or corrupted them, they clearly ripped them off as can be seen in the above link and below links and attributed the pagan rituals to the prophet, whether they did it right after the prophet's death or 100 or 200 or 300 years later makes no difference the Jews prayed in the exact same physical format of the sunni prayer of today, coincidence? or did God tell the prophets before Muhammad to pray the exact same way, your decision http//www.submission.org/jews.html http//www.aol40.com/que11.htm many Sunnis can use the Quranic line that God sent a messenger to every community as a rebuttal to this, you can use that as a defense if you wish but it seems highly unlikely due to the injection of many other obvious Jewish, Christian, and Hindu beliefs that contradict the Quran in the hadiths

peace, a conversation with a Sunni friend of mine, I told him off for is anti-Jewish belief D but it appears to be a popular Sunni belief, check it out ELEPlaya4Life yo WOLFWD1 sup man ELEPlaya4Life nada ELEPlaya4Life hey I found some Muslims in my school WOLFWD1 fa real? WOLFWD1 arabs or americans? ELEPlaya4Life they arabs of course =-O shocker right? WOLFWD1 lol ELEPlaya4Life but Americans too ELEPlaya4Life born in America WOLFWD1 where from in arabia? WOLFWD1 oh WOLFWD1 guess what ELEPlaya4Life one duded is from Palestine though ELEPlaya4Life dude* WOLFWD1 i found out that da ANTI CHRIST may have been born since da days of muhammed ELEPlaya4Life what makes you think that> ELEPlaya4Life ? ELEPlaya4Life and where is your info from WOLFWD1 some hadeeths... WOLFWD1 da hadeeths say no one waz sure WOLFWD1 but the guy they suspecting waz REAL suspecious WOLFWD1 he waz a jewish kid from the jews of the medina ELEPlaya4Life what clas of hadiths are they in WOLFWD1 called safi al saiad WOLFWD1 i didn;t check da hadeeth i HEARD it so i dunno WOLFWD1 and it says from that jewish kids bio too WOLFWD1 that he calimed he waz a prophet when he waz a lil kid ELEPlaya4Life blah that seems anti-judaistic to me ELEPlaya4Life its prolly a load of crap WOLFWD1 and he used to stay alone n never played wit other kids...and used to talk some lingo no one understood.... WOLFWD1 and omar ben al kattab went to talk to da kid since every one waz claimin his da anti christ WOLFWD1 then da kid spoke a lotta scary shit and he called muhammed THE PROPHET OF DA IGNANTS.. WOLFWD1 and when omar went bacc to muhammed he swore to god that da kids da anti christ and muhammed never held his swear bacc WOLFWD1 which means he is most likelt to be da christ ELEPlaya4Life now, I'm definitely against Zionism but it seems absurd when people are always blaming the Jews for everything, lol my toaster's not working, stupid Jews!! WOLFWD1 ayo holdup.. WOLFWD1 brb WOLFWD1 da anti christ IS gonna be a jew kid WOLFWD1 thats a 1005 known fact..no racism involved...lol WOLFWD1 *100% ELEPlaya4Life I think whoever wrote this was full of crap but the wierd thing is, would anybody believe it if it didn't say the antichrist is Jewish, think about it, personally I'm getting sick of this Arab/Jewish conspiracy theory game, some ultra orthodox Jews say they want to completely wipe out the Arabs, they say a thousand Arabs isn't worth a Jewish fingernail, and many arrogant and stupid things like that, some Arabs say that 4,000 or so Jews didn't go to work the night before the World Trade Center attack because they knew what was going to happen, they say things like the Holocaust had a significantly smaller amount of deaths then claimed, and many other stupid things to the point where they blame the Jews if the power goes out, it's getting really, really annoying peace

Salaam, ) So this is the question. If nothing happens without the will of God, yet we have free will, are the sins we commit known already? Which could go on further to asking is our place in heaven or hell, or judgement already known? Many people answer by saying that we are given a number of choices which are predetermined by God, and we must use our free will to make these choices. Yet still the choices we make, doesn't God already know what they are going to be? I have heard only one explanation which can somewhat explain this, but it isn't easy to grasp too well, so I just wanted to ask what you all thought. Thanks, Zarmina ) PS Any progressive muslim communities or people in NY? I think getting together with people with open minds will encourage growth of knowledge and open minds further. Thanks!!!!!!!!!

Al right folks, I wanna clear somethings up. There are two conversations in this one topic. We have to discuss one or the other. That every order of Muhammad peace be upon him including those that are not included in the Quran is incumbent on us to follow. The validity of some hadith collections such as Imam Bukhari and Muslim. The people here at free-minds.org are perpetually confusing these two making conversations with them extremely convoluted and confusing that's why we can't go anywhere with this. #1 does not mean #2, and #2 does not mean #1. Why is this true? Take Imam Malik, one of the pillars of the sunni faith. Born some 95 years after Muhammad peace be upon him, he believed that the orders of Muhammad peace be upon him could be seen by observing the actions of the people of Medina. So by rarely using hadith he was able to build a whole school of thought by this. Only much much later did people in his school use hadith to show that what he affirmed can be verified by hadth also. Another example is that many sunni people wrote criticsms of Imam Bukhari's collection. Although they were refuted in the books of his supporters, they were never considered non-muslims. In fact they were admired and debated with. Its just that most muslims realized that the rejecters had no case and dismissed them. Another example to prove my point. What about the years between Muhammad peace be upon him and Imam Bukhari? What did they do? If the people at free-minds here think that sunnis think that Imam Bukhari collection is a holy book, what did his predecessors without the "holy book" do? They believed in #1, so they either sought out hadith themselves by making little collections that dealt with issues in their lives, or they went and travleled hundreds and hundreds of miles to learn with great scholars, like the sahaba, the tabieen, Imam Abu Hanifah, Imam Malik, Imam Shafii, and many others who knew many hadith (not then collected by Bukhari) by heart. By going to the Sahaba some of them learned the orders of prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) first hand from eye witnesses. I could keep on giving examples but just don't confuse the two! Sunni's do not beleive that Imam Bukhari is a prophet or is his book his holy. Not beleiving in the validity of a collection doesn't take you out of the fold of Islam. (Its just make you look stupid.) Not believeing in all of the orders of Muhammad (peace be upon him) does takes you out of the fold of Islam. Why? Because this beleif violates the Quran! So don't confuse point #1 with point #2. Both of them have nothing to do with each other. I already posted this in another topic but just wanted to make it its own topic too.

I've read that the English translations of Quran are incorrect when referring to what men will "receive" in heaven. While the Quran says virgins, others claim it was actually white raisins. I'm curious to see what people's opinions are on this matter. If it has been discussed before, please excuse me.

Salaamun alaikum, To anyone who follows 'hadith and sunna of Muhammad', my question is were any of the hadith compilers (the big 6, bukhari, muslim ibn hajjaj, tirmidhi, nisai, abu dawud, ibn majah) PERFECT, i.e. FLAWLESS in thier collection? that's all. thanks.

Salaam Aleikum Brother. You are mos correct in Your postings. It is a tragedy that there are Muslims out there who reject the Sunnah/Hadith cry I have found some of the so called progressive Brothers and Sisters very sectarian and looking down to on Sunni and Shia and making things up about us. I shall pray for them all that they may be cured of their blindness. Allah has warned us not to divide ourselves. There are too many things wrong with the so called progressive Islam to be followed. They claim to follow Qu'ran only yet if they did then they would follow the Sunnah/Hadith as well. But Peace unto them, they are Brothers and Sisters.

Peace brothers and sisters, Just a question for those who might know... When, where, and why did the process of becoming Muslim include adopting an Arab name? (eg. Lou Al Cinder(sp.) = Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Cassius Clay = Muhammad Ali, Cat Stevens = Yusuf Islam, etc.) Was this just part of the agenda of "arabicizing" all Muslims? Peace, Tay