Questions/Comments on the Quran

Peace 2154 Free-Minds And do not say of those who are killed in the sake of God that they are dead; no, they are alive but you do not perceive. Rashad Khalifa Do not say of those who are killed in the cause of GOD, "They are dead." They are alive at their Lord, but you do not perceive. QXP (Establishment of the Divine Value System will meet with harsh opposition from people and nations with vested interests.) Say not of those who are slain in the Cause of Allah, "They are dead." Nay, they are alive, but you perceive it not. (While death is a prolonged state of sleep until the Resurrection Day, in their case emergent evolution of the "Self" takes place and they are instantly in a state of Bliss of the Hereafter, and they get honorable provision for mind and body from their Sustainer (3169)). 3169 Free-Minds And do not think that those who are killed in the sake of God are dead. No, they are alive at their Lord receiving a bounty. Rashad Khalifa Do not think that those who are killed in the cause of GOD are dead; they are alive at their Lord, enjoying His provisions. QXP Think not of those, who are slain in the Cause of Allah, as dead. Nay, they are alive! With their Lord they have provision. (2154). Read on after 3169 I hope this will shed some light. Namnoc

peace, By classical arabic I simply meant classical arabic lexicons (e.g. Lane, Lisan, others), more so, than modern Arabic alternatives. For lexicon meanings of "al Masjid al Haram, Qibla and Kaaba." most are online, e.g. http//www.studyquran.org/ArabicDictionaries.htm I do not have the time at present to look them up for you, sorry. Nor would I do so with the sole Arabic ones, as I wouldn't understand them. My question was asking what your analysis showed on these words, if one was done, and hopefully posting it here for further study/discussion. Dear Wakas I have checked the occurrences and the logic of the concerned verses. What do you mean by Classical Arabic and in which time period was this C.A. developed? By whom? What are your sources? If you are specifically concerned with Lexicons such as Lisan or Lanes can you kindly look up and tell me what is the meaning of al Masjid al Haram, Qibla and Kaaba.

Peace to you Genteel, Nadeem, the Quran is allegedly claimed to be the Word of God and it seems that this God is using "nick names" (conjecture). It is not conjecture brother, it is the language of that area. A person was named according to his reputation. A man could have several names. He could be named after his village, after his skills, after his looks, after his attitude, after his thought etc. A man would change name when he had his first born. If my first born was called Ali, then I would be called "Abu Ali", not "Nadeem". At least that is what my textbook says. Abee lahab may be descriptive but it specifically refers to Abd al Uzza and his wife Umme Jamil. They had two sons who married the daughters of Muhammad/Khadija. Amr ibn Hisham was also nicknamed Abul Jahl (father of ignorance) by Muhammad and his accomplices and not by a fathomless GOD, LOL!. There's no wisdom in surah 111. It is incomplete and deficient of any standards to claim condemnation on husband and wife without an explanation or reason. Now that is conjecture. Just stating "father of flames" as a descriptive form is not by any means an explanation or reason whatsoever, let alone wisdom. Seems so to me. Since "Abu Lahab" is a description, it refers to anyone suitable to carry it. I do not limit "Abu Lahab" to a specific person, and thus I enjoy the privilege of being reminded that those who are angry and harsh with the people will suffer, no matter what their wealth is. (Quran ch. 111 "His money will not avail him&quot I agree, the message is very simple and doesn't sound fancy or anything, but it's there. One is forced into analyzing the verse's historical event in order to justify the condemnation thwarted upon the husband and wife. Yet here I am as free as a bird. it is clear from ahadith that they troubled Muhammad because they refused to submit to Muhammad's harsh commands and severe punishments (as clearly dipicted in the Quran as well). Well I met a guy, who knew a guy, that had this cousin who had a mother that had met a man that said that this just ain't so. The Quranists approach exactly in the same manner towards all other Muslim sectarians and non-Muslims as well, as if they were all abu jahl and abu lahab, and as a matter of fact among themselves. Some do, others don't. The question is why and what makes them say this to each other? Is this the trait of a merciful loving GOD towards his own creation who needs his alleged "body guard" (an angel) with wings to command Muhammad secretly in order to command all others and then put everything in a book form so that no can properly understand so that his entire creation can call each other deaf, dumb and blind? People will call each other whatever they please, there is no other factor involved here but the people themselves. And I completely missed how you linked human behavior with the divine trait. Without reason, logic and explanation, there's no wisdom . I've always believed that. Remember, I am discussing the Quran for what it is and what it states from historical standpoint. Please don't take this as a personal attack. I never do. I, and the Quran itself, invites towards the criticism of Quran. Or are there some that think that the 'pondering' and 'reflection' encouraged by the Quran consist merely of a series of 'WOW!'s and 'So true, so true's ? Personally, I've got several bones to pick with the Quran, it's not like it makes perfect sense to me either. I've got a heart, and my eyebrows do flinch a little when I hear about for example flogging. But I'm not going to be so small that I'll reject the concept simply because it seems harsh. Where is the logic in that? I think it's better to study these kind of punishments and see if they work. If they don't, I do not see why we are not well within our rights to mend them. I believe we are obliged to. Peace, Nadeem

Bump Surprised at no responses

Peace SHM, I have to disagree due to the subjectivity element of your interpretation. applying subjective logic and reasoning eliminates absolute truth. plus most subjective judgments are made on ones personal desires and not made with the community at mind. PLUS, subjective reason can vary greatly in which one individual can view an act evil and wrong while another considered it wise and just. how can agreement be made on such subjective reasoning? and how can one commit shirk when technically according to your interpretation, his or her personal subjective reason is GOD gave (therefore, if he view it correct, it is correct?)? With subjectivity I'm simply referring to your 'self'. You cannot circumvent this 'self' that you have; so you cannot escape your subjectivity. It's like breathing. Everything, all things, that you experience are through the lenses of your 'self'. 'Subjective logic' is a redundancy (same goes for subjective reason and judgment); all logic is, as all else, subjective. There is no 'true' logic. And there is no 'absolute truth' within the frameworks of human mind. What is beyond this framework, that is beyond our perceived reality, it doesn't exist for us. So what if we disagree? It is not like we haven't cracked that nut before. Largely, we have come to believe that those who are united in the larger numbers have the most forceful stance. Some use their force violently and operate tyrannically. Those are the mushriks (idolator) and kafirs (denier). Others invite and enlighten others with wisdom and kind words. Those are the hanif (monotheist) and muslims (peacemaker). Yes, the 'self' - wherein lies subjectivity - is god given, but the path it takes and the meandering it does is its own. Your mouth is god given, your tongue is god given, your sound is too, but neither your words nor your tone can be blamed on god. SHM therefore, if he view it correct, it is correct In his mind, yes, and he shall be made to answer why he thought so. Then god is the best judge. But you have the luxury of subjectivity brother, you don't need to be the subject of his. Nadeem

Peace explorer, The first thing that comes to mind for me is Jesus, when they tried to crucify him. Read on another board that someone thought the other was when the Zionist Regime started and they took over Palestine. Peace

Yes on the a laser thin bridge over the hell Let me guess This bridge is called the "straight path" ;D

.....The consequences can be dreadful upon themselves or can be intervened as a punishment to stop it. There are rules and conditions of punishment and can be reasonably harsh but exercised in an ethical and logical manner. Do you agree thus far? yes. but this is all base on your (our) interpretation on what is hards and ethical. that is my point. you (we) are making judge on what is "ethical" base on your (our) limit knowledge and basis. to humans, eternal seem harsh, to human hell seems harsh etc. that is my point.

Would you say that those verses were intended for guidance, or were they knowledge of the unseen (to them, anyway)? The idea of "a clear Quran" applies to the guidance and such, not necessarily these things which would be beyond the majority of humans until naval expeditions took hold. Consider 5533 (SHAKIR O assembly of the jinn and the men! If you are able to pass through the regions of the heavens and the earth, then pass through; you cannot pass through but with authority), is there any doubt as to its meaning today? What about back in 6th century Arabia?

Salaams Br, "This is the Book, within it is no suspicious matter/statement; this is guide for righteous people" {Refer 202}...MORE Should it be ; ALIF LAM MIM (ilm), that is the book.........e.t.c check out lanes to see what ilm is Br. Salaams.

Dear Anwar, I am sorry to say that today you have also adopted the approach of a traditional Maulvi. And let me tell you now that what you said about Sunnis is also wrong, you know little about sunnis. Let Leoxyz take care of that. The problem with you is that you read something thing here and there and presume to have obtained indepth knowledge about something. You yourself say "imaginary world" and imaginary "two suns" and then coin dual "Shamsain" and forcfully stress that it should be accepted as genuine since it has been coined/stated by a person who has authored a book in Arabic "Imaginary world". And also throw a marvelous idea that "Alqamar" includes everything. Kindly study first how a word takes birth. Word is not the slaive of the mouth that it should keep secreting. Please dont jeopardize the sanctity of the words by just knowing one system that by adding such particles it will become dual and plural.

the use of a capital H would have been sufficient peace lk

So, you think that "angels" are humans? "Unthaa/female" is not exclusive to humans, woman is.{Sistwe Samia} Angels are certainly not humans {} as stated by the Quran. So woman is a female, and some people assign female names to Angels. If feminine names {conventionally thought to be appropriate for a woman or girl} are not to be assigned to the Angels and their gender cannot and should not be considered as female/feminine. And daugters are certainly woman/females {Refer 4315-18}

Salaam This is another hadeeth related to dogs. What surprised me was the son of Umar the Kalifa , Ibn Umar calling Abu Huraira a liar and a fabricator of hadeeth to suit his needs and purposes and the honesty of the hadeeth recorder to have recorded this. Sahih Muslim No 3812 Narrated by Abdullah Ibn Umar Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) ordered the killing of dogs except the dog tamed for hunting, or watching of the herd of sheep or other domestic animals. It was said to Ibn Umar that AbuHurayrah talks of (exception) about the dog for watching the field, whereupon he said Since AbuHurayrah possessed land.

The question that needs reply/information was If I say that in Hijaz, there has never been a tradition of stoning amongst any type of people living there nor in the species of monkeys of that area, would you be able to quote from any history source to indicate/opposite to it?

Yeah, it makes sense.

Peace Maxq, The word an-Naas (The people) has always perplexed me in terms of it's derivation. Can someone provide an explanation on how it is derived from its root? When one looks for the root, it is best to look at the singular and not the plural. This is because some plurals have forms that are non-standard. So if you look at the singular of "NAS", you will get the answer. Peace, Ayman

Then why the need to follow muhammad? And the obsession with his every move Does Ibrahim get lesser credits than muhammad and his 'followers? It is because Allah commanded us to obey/follow the Holy Prophet PBUH. 332 (332) Say 'Obey Allah and obey the Messenger.' If they turn away from this then know that Allah does not love those who refuse to obey Him and His Messenger. 3132 (3132) And obey Allah and the Messenger, that you may be shown mercy. 459 (459) Believers! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, and those from among you who are invested with authority; and then if you were to dispute among yourselves about anything refer it to Allah and the Messenger *89 if you indeed believe in Allah and the Last Day; that is better and more commendable in the end. 2454 (2454) Say, "Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, but if you turn away, you should note it well that the Messenger is responsible for the duty entrusted to him and you are responsible for the duty entrusted to you. If you obey him, you will be rightly guided, for the responsibility of the Messenger is only to convey the Message clearly to you. 469 (469) And he who obeys Allah and the Messenger -they shall be with those whom Allah has favoured -the Prophets, those steadfast in truthfulness *99, the martyrs, and the righteous." How excellent will they be for companions! 464 (464) (And tell them that) We never sent a Messenger but that he should be obeyed by the leave of Allah. *94 If whenever they wronged themselves they had come to you praying to Allah for forgiveness, and had the Messenger prayed for their forgiveness, they would indeed have found Allah All-Forgiving, All-Compassionate 480 (480) He who obeys the Messenger thereby obeys Allah; as for he who turns away, We have not sent you as a keeper over them! 414 (414) And he who disobeys Allah and His Messenger and transgresses the bounds set by Him - him shall Allah cause to enter the Fire. There he will abide. A humiliating chastisement awaits him. 3336 (3336) It *65 does not behove a believing man and a believing woman that when Allah and His Messenger have given their decision in a matter, they should exercise an option in that matter of theirs; and whoever disobeys Allah and His Prophet, has indeed strayed into manifest error 7223 (7223) My mission is only to convey what I receive from Him and His messages. *22 Now whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger for him awaits the fire of Hell such people shall dwell in it for ever. 813 (813) This is because they defied Allah and His Messenger. Whoever defies Allah and His Messenger must know that Allah is severe in punishment. 963 (963) Do they not know that whoso opposes Allah and His Messenger shall have the Fire of Hell for him wherein he shall abide for ever? This is a great ignominy. 2456 (2456) Therefore, establish Salat, pay the Zakat dues and obey the Messenger; it is expected that you will be shown mercy 4115 (4115) As for him who sets himself against the Messenger and follows a path other than that of the believers even after true guidance had become clear to him, We will let him go to the way he has turned to, *143 and We will cast him into Hell - an evil destination. 533 (533) He does not speak of his own desire; 534 (534) it is but a Revelation which is sent down to him 331 (331) (O Messenger!) Tell people 'If you indeed love Allah, follow me, and Allah will love you and will forgive you your sins. Allah is All-Forgiving, All-Compassionate.' 332 (332) Say 'Obey Allah and obey the Messenger.' If they turn away from this then know that Allah does not love those who refuse to obey Him and His Messenger. *28 3164 (3164) Surely Allah conferred a great favour on the believers when He raised from among them a Messenger to recite to them His signs, and to purify them, and to teach them the Book and Wisdom. For before that they were in manifest error. 4113 (4113) (O Messenger!) But for Allah's favour and mercy upon you, a party of them had resolved to mislead you,yet they only misled them selves, and could not have harmed you in any way. *142 Allah revealed to you the Book and Wisdom, and He taught you what you knew not. Great indeed has been Allah's favour upon you.

Response is here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=15224.msg144896#new

Salaam dear Navid, Please see http//19.org/index.php?id=91,417,0,0,1,0&PHPSESSID=d6733b15653565fd7ddfd111a28a4d2a Thank you very much brother Arnold. I will read through it. Peace