Questions/Comments on the Quran

Salam AhmedBahgat, all, Very good study Masha Allah. I just have a question. Is "kah'lan" in Arabic means "old" or "mature/Adult"? I always understood it to mean "Adult" and not "old" because in other verses "shaykhun" appear for old. Any explanation from the Quran is more than welcome. Thank you. Peace. Myr. Salam mate Thanks for taking the time to look at it closely, to be honest bro, you raised a very good question, the word Kahlan was only used in these two verses about Jesus, therefore we have nothing more in the Quran to explain this word further, however in the common Arabic use Kahalan is always used to describe an old man, now, please don?t take it as a very old man, for me I believe it means somewhere over 40, also the word Shaikh does not also mean a very old man, in fact Shaikh Kabir is the one that means a very old man, i.e. the word Kabir after Shaikh clearly indicate a very old age, a couple of example from the Quran regarding Shaikhon Kabir They said O ruler of the land! Lo! he hath a very aged father, so take one of us instead of him. Lo! we behold thee of those who do kindness. (7 And when he came unto the water of Midian he found there a whole tribe of men, watering. And he found apart from them two women keeping back (their flocks). He said What aileth you? The two said We cannot give (our flocks) to drink till the shepherds return from the water; and our father is a very old man. (23) -> As you can see from the above that including the word Kabir after Shaikhon, will confirm that it is a very old age and can?t be disputed But we see the Quran also used Shaikh but without the word Kabir, which for me somehow means a disability due to age, in fact the aging disease is called ?Shaikhokha? in Arabic, She said O wonder! shall I bear a son when I am an extremely old woman and this my husband an old man? Most surely this is a wonderful thing. (72) -> Therefore I believe Shaikh alone can mean an ageing man or a young man who is suffering from that disease ?Ageing? which causes some sort of disability, Shaikhon Kabir should means a very ageing man that must be really old because of the word kabir ?Allah knows best? Now we read in the Quran that the humans keep growing until reaching the age of maturity which is 40 And We have enjoined on man doing of good to his parents; with trouble did his mother bear him and with trouble did she bring him forth; and the bearing of him and the weaning of him was thirty months; until when he attains his maturity and reaches forty years, he says My Lord! grant me that I may give thanks for Thy favor which Thou hast bestowed on me and on my parents, and that I may do good which pleases Thee and do good to me in respect of my offspring; surely I turn to Thee, and surely I am of those who submit. (15) -> Therefore and based on the common use for the word Kahlan. It must be after the age of maturity i.e. must be more than 40 years old, by how much?, I really don?t know, but I know 50 years old man can be called Kahaln and may not be called Shaikh because he may not be suffering from the ageing disease yet Finally and logically speaking, if Allah used the word Shaikh to mean Old age, and Shailkhon Kabir to mean very oild age, why it was not used in these two verses about Jesus?, therefore, most likely it has to be less than Shaikh and more than maturity which was determined as 40 years old, and we know that Jesus died at 33 PS I?m not arguing this with you, in fact I?m very open to drop that concept totally about the return of Jesus as I hardly believe in it from the first place and my belief can?t be conclusive using the word Kahlan alone, I only tend to believe as such Peace be with you

Peace bro I had a look the other day on all the verses but got carried away with other stuff, sorry just briefly, the Quran told us that Allah sent a book named Zaboor to King David, "Dawood", and because Zubur is the plural of Zaboor, and because Allah told us that He sent many prophets that we are not aware of, therefore Zubur clealy means all the Zaboors that were sent to whoever from the prophets, in fact Allah many times associated the plural Zubur with the plural prophets inmany of the verses numbers you posted peace

Salaams and Yes thanks for the link

Salaams thegod, you said "######### anyway, this was my last post in this forum! really enjoyed talking to all of u! God Bless ! until if ever you change your mind , Br.

I believe its a form of praise,remember Allah gave the Quran to Muhammad to deliver to us,so the way I see it,its what Allah told Muhammad and us all as what to say..not what Allah was saying to himself.

Furthermore, a photon has no mass, so technically it is not a particle but merely represent the electromagnetic force interaction. peace

Peace However Jesus died, he is susceptible to death as each of us are. None is granted a life of a thousand years. We are brought from death, are born, die, and reborn with our fruits. Joe

Peace I think the story is a metaphor for the human in general describing a state to which one must return to and the state which should be carefully watched. Some stories will be hard to understand, in my opinion, if one cannot penetrate the veil, the barrier which God has put between different people when reciting the reading. Like the story of Moses and God's servant. It deals with a deeper knowledge, which people often question. The question is usually something like, why do good things happen to bad people or why do bad things happen to good people? Why is there evil in the world? This story will answer it. Basically the man is like God or His power in action, Moses is you or me. We have limited knowledge and cannot have patience with the ways in which God works. Things that are seemingly bad are for the good of the people. God works to promote our growth, but people do not always learn. Another is the story of the Cave, the youths of the cave. They represent the people who retreat from the idleness of their people, keeping to themselves that to which they adhere, lest their people seek to force them to themselves. It reveals also a concept of time and death and the hereafter. Joe

Peace and Thanks All, for the replies.... http//www.geocities.com/Athens/4796/smoking.html Caffiene may not be haram,if its obused can lead to problems. As for nicotine it can lead to ruin of ones health so it should be avoided. "Spend your wealth for the cause of Allah, and be not cast by your own hands to ruin; and do good. Lo! Allah loveth the beneficent." 2195 Now smoking fits exactly in the above category.People are aware of its harmful effects but still indulge in it.Wouldn't this lead to physically destroying oneself by his own hands (conduct) And "O children of Adam! wear your beautiful apparel at every time and place of prayer eat and drink but waste not by excess for Allah loveth not the wasters." 731 The words which should be reflected upon with considering the subject under discussion are translated as "..but waste not by excess for Allah loveth not the wasters." Compare the above Qur?anic injunction to what Lawrence.H.Summers further says "Behind these heavy human costs of smoking lie equally heavy economic costs for our nation

Cutting Off The Hands of Theives By Muhammad Abdul Malek The last few years have seen the introduction of "Islamic Law" (Shariah or Shariat) in some countries which call themselves Islamic States. One law in particular, quite often publicised in the West as barbarous, is the cutting of a hand for stealing. The so called Islamic States which carry out these sentences do it for various political reasons, but primarily to create fear and to hold on to power. Unfortunately they go unquestioned, simply because most people have no knowledge of the Qur'anic injunctions regarding these issues. According to the Qur'an, any punishment should fit the crime, If we are to follow the Qur'anic guidance that the punishment should fit the crime then we cannot cut the hand of a thief as the wealth stolen is not the same as the sacrifice of one's hand. Therefore we have to look very carefully at the verses which deal with this issue. The Law regarding this punishment is given in verses (538, 39). From verse 38 the word "Yad" is translated in its literal sense as 'hand'. However besides 'hand' the word "Yad" also means strength of hands, power, property, wealth, blessings, obligation, support etc. Many Arabic words contain such multiple meanings and it is important to note that the appropriate meaning will always depend on the context in which it is being used. Here the context is stealing i.e. of wealth, and therefore the punishment to fit the crime should be wealth for wealth and not 'hand for wealth'. Hence the thief should be given a punishment where he is made to give up his wealth to make good the loss of the person he has robbed. Hence the following translation of the verse, as given by the late Ahmed Ali Khan Jullundri in his translation and commentary of the Qur'an, is accurate On the other hand if verse (53 is translated literally to mean cutting of hand, then verse (539) cannot be sustained logically. It would be ridiculous to suggest that Allah turns to him in forgiveness if the thief repents after the cutting of his hand! What is there to forgive after he has paid such a heavy penalty? But if he returns the stolen goods and repents and reforms then he would be forgiven. Deserving the chance he should be given the chance, and this automatically rules out any question of cutting of hand. In fact, in a truly Islamic State the question of cutting of a hand would not arise at all. There will be social justice and the State will have to act as a trustee for the entire population. Hunger, injustice and poverty would be eliminated as the wealth would be used for the benefit of the people. Further, the Qur'an states quite clearly that any such crime must be forgiven if there are mitigating circumstances i.e. poverty, hunger etc. http//www.geocities.com/Athens/4796/cuttoff.htm Guess my opinion of what the context really means,is now answered..because as is highlighted in red states From verse 38 the word "Yad" is translated in its literal sense as 'hand'. However besides 'hand' the word "Yad" also means strength of hands, power, property, wealth, blessings, obligation, support etc. And Here the context is stealing i.e. of wealth, and therefore the punishment to fit the crime should be wealth for wealth and not 'hand for wealth'. My previous belief was incorrect,and as I have stated before,If I am proven wrong I have Know qualms to submitting to the Truth. The thief, male or female, you shall take their property as a punishment for their crime, and to serve as an example from GOD. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise. Peace

Peace my only comment that Sura can'r mean the whole Quran because the following verse clearly suggest that it is just one sura from the Quran Those who believe say, "Why is not a sura sent down (for us)?" But when a sura of basic or categorical meaning is revealed, and fighting is mentioned therein, thou wilt see those in whose hearts is a disease looking at thee with a look of one in swoon at the approach of death. But more fitting for them- (20)

Peace I posted this to brother 2pac a few weeks back, if you would like to read it Peace bro, I like these sort of discussions, what I like about it that there is nothing for certain that we can know about death other than we certainly are going to die, sometimes you get the feeling that it will never happen to you but this delusional thought quickly stops when realizing the reality we all facing equally, that was stated in the Quran clearly ?Every soul shall have a taste of death and We test you by evil and by good by way of trial. to Us must ye return.? (35) The above common sense message ?Every soul shall have a taste of death?, was repeated in another 2 locations ?Every soul shall have a taste of death And only on the Day of Judgment shall you be paid your full recompense. Only he who is saved far from the Fire and admitted to the Garden will have attained the object (of Life) For the life of this world is but goods and chattels of deception? (185) And ?Every soul shall have a taste of death in the end to Us shall ye be brought back.? (57) -> Some may interpret this Quran message ?Every soul shall have a taste of death?, as you might die and come back again like you had a taste of it. This can not happen bro, when death comes, it is not going to be rushed or postponed ?Say,The appointment to you is for a Day, which ye cannot put back for an hour nor put forward." (30) The term of every human was fixed and documented in a writing when the human was created, changes to the term are not plausible ?Nor can a soul die except by Allah's leave, the term being fixed as by writing. If any do desire a reward in this life, We shall give it to him; and if any do desire a reward in the Hereafter, We shall give it to him. And swiftly shall We reward those that (serve us with) gratitude.? (145) Hence what those people experienced could not be death for sure, possibly a medical condition that yet to be known especially they all shared the same descriptions of this strange experience, possibly Satan is using the chance as well to mislead humans and divert them from the truth told to us by Allah in His Quran. I would like to elaborate on the verses you posted as I have a lot of thoughts about it as well I have done a lot of researches about 10 years ago regarding those verses, firstly let me post the verses again ?I use Yusuf Ali translation, not because I prefer him rather because it is commonly used? 99- ?(In Falsehood will they be) Until, when death comes to one of them, he says "O my Lord! send me back (to life),- ? 100- "In order that I may work righteousness in the things I neglected." - "By no means! It is but a word he says."- Before them is a Partition till the Day they are raised up. 101- ?Then when the Trumpet is blown, there will be no more relationships between them that Day, nor will one ask after another!? (99) (100) (101) PS I have added verse 101 as I need it for my comment, please note the following is only my personal opinion but yet based on the Quran as much as I can, also please note I have not invented anything rather went through many intelligent people work and used my mind to lean to what I feel comfortable with. Ok bro, I will start like this, death is almost identical to sleep, they share a common action which is ?The soul must exit the body? ?It is Allah that takes the souls (of men) at death; and those that die not (He takes) during their sleep those on whom He has passed the decree of death, He keeps back (from returning to life), but the rest He sends (to their bodies) for a term appointed verily in this are Signs for those who reflect.? (42) This amazing verse in the Quran, Allah remind us with signs for those who reflect , which is, Allah takes back the soul when we die and we sleep For the people who finished their documented life terms, ?THE SOULS WILL NOT BE SENT BACK TO THE BODIES? For the ones who were asleep ?THE SOULS WILL BE SENT BACK TO THE BODIES? This means we can simply know a bit about death The most common similarity is the delusion of time, when we sleep we don t feel time consequently when we die we will not feel the time, i.e. it is like when we die, our judgment day has started, because since the moment of death till the judgment day we will be like sleeping and we will not feel the time even if it is millions of years for the judgment day yet to be fulfilled How about feelings and senses then?, when we die, the important note is this, at the moment of death when we are not yet dead but the procedure as started on us, humans MUST see the truth, it is like that?s it and everything is clear, ?GAME OVER?, i.e. the humans will start seeing with an eye strength the like of steel, ?this is how the Quran described it actually? 19- ?And the stupor of death will bring Truth (before his eyes) ?This was the thing which thou wast trying to escape!?? 20- ?And the Trumpet shall be blown that will be the Day whereof Warning (had been given).? 21- ?And there will come forth every soul with each will be an (angel) to drive, and an (angel) to bear witness.? 22- ?(It will be said) "Thou wast heedless of this; now have We removed thy veil, and sharp is thy sight this Day!" (19) (20) (21) (22) can you see brother 2Pac, how the sequence is described in the Quran?, you may note the followings The stupor of death will bring Truth. It will be told to the ones who rejected Allah ?This was the thing which thou wast trying to escape!? The scene quickly changed from the moment of death and the dialogue that was started in verse 19 to the resurrection in verse 20, you get the feelings that the time just passed quickly between these two events ?The death and the resurrection? The sequence continue as follow on the day of resurrection everyone of us will be brought forward to give account with each will be an (angel) to drive, and an (angel) to bear witness., an amazing scene bro In verse 22 you will see that the truth that was brought by the stupor of death has been described as follow "Thou wast heedless of this; now have We removed thy veil, and sharp is thy sight this Day!?, This is the rest of the dialogue that started on verse 19 at the moment of death which brought the truth If we look at the verses you posted (2399-100), you will notice that the moment of death that started in verse 99 and continued in verse 100, was followed by the moment of resurrection in verse 101 (the one I added) 100- "In order that I may work righteousness in the things I neglected." - "By no means! It is but a word he says."- Before them is a Partition till the Day they are raised up. 101- ?Then when the Trumpet is blown, there will be no more relationships between them that Day, nor will one ask after another!? Again you get the impressions that there is no feeling of time between the two events (death and resurrection), this time delusion was actually confirmed in the Quran in a very clear manner ?One day He will gather them together (It will be) as if they had tarried but an hour of a day they will recognise each other assuredly those will be lost who denied the meeting with Allah and refused to receive true guidance? (45) Can?t get clearer than this bro ? One day He will gather them together (It will be) as if they had tarried but an hour of a day?, you will also note that on that day (day of resurrection) ? we will recognise each other?, this day for many is going to be one hell of a distressful day., but this is not our discussion, let?s concentrate of the day of death, Now let?s look at the following logic Imagine I?m a Christian who believes ?Jesus is god? and you are a Muslim who believes ?There is no God but Allah? Me and you were flying on an airliner while we don?t know each other, now assume the flight has gone into big trouble and we will crash in the next 30 minutes or so, this moment can not be the moment of truth, because it is not the moment of death yet, and consequently I will pray and ask Jesus to save me and you will pray and ask Allah to save you, you see, I?m still flawed, it is not the moment of truth for me, but when really the plane crashes and me and you start to die for real, this is the moment of truth, we know the truth is one thing, it can not be more than one, so I will see the Angels coming to bash the hell out of me and you will be greeted by them with peace, sure we will start seeing the Angels at the moment of death and those who think the Angels are just a symbolic figure will have the shock of their life, let?s look at Allah describing your scene ?Those whom the angels cause to die in a good state, saying Peace be on you enter the garden for what you did.? (32) Good on you mate you passed the moment of truth, how about my scene? ?If thou couldst see, when the angels take the souls of the Unbelievers (at death), (How) they smite their faces and their backs, (saying) ?Taste the penalty of the blazing Fire-?? (50) There is no question a flawed Christian like me will be bashed on my face and my back at the moment of truth, at this moment I would certainly wish to be a believer in Allah, the truth which started to be seen with an eye sight of steel is the only thing that will make me beat my arrogance and declare my belief in Allah, the Quran ?The book with every single similitude? has given us an example at the moment of truth when an arrogant rejector starts to see with the eye of the truth, this arrogant human will certainly declare their belief in Allah ?We took the Children of Israel across the sea Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam)." (90) Pharaoh declared his Islam at the moment of truth ?death?, but was it accepted? ?(It was said to him) "Ah now!- But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou didst mischief (and violence)!? (91) Sure it was not accepted because he ?did mischief (and violence)!? all his life, in fact even before death, if the big signs of the Judgment Day started, no new beliefs in Allah will be accepted after ?Are they waiting to see if the angels come to them, or thy Lord (Himself), or certain of the signs of thy Lord! the day that certain of the signs of thy Lord do come, no good will it do to a soul to believe in them then if it believed not before nor earned righteousness through its faith. Say ?Wait ye we too are waiting.?" (15 Can you see this bit bro ? or certain of the signs of thy Lord! the day that certain of the signs of thy Lord do come, no good will it do to a soul to believe in them then if it believed not before? But truly I?m not having a guess that Pharaoh?s belief at the moment of death was not accepted, let me explain bro, firstly I showed you above that the Quran considers Sleep is like Death, and vice verse, with a difference of the soul not returning back to the body in the case of death, we also know that while you are asleep you do not feel the passing of time but you may experience dreams and nightmares that seem time based, truthfully this is exactly what will happen during the sleep of death, we will go through good dreams and nightmares, the only difference is when we have a nightmare during the sleep of death we will not be able to wake ourselves to interrupt it as we normally do during the normal sleep, Pharaoh was promised two nightmares per day of seeing his destination in hell, twice every day till the judgment day 45-? Then Allah saved him from (every) ill that they plotted (against him), but the burnt of the Penalty encompassed on all sides the People of Pharaoh.? 46- ?In front of the Fire will they be brought, morning and evening And (the sentence will be) on the Day that Judgment will be established "Cast ye the People of Pharaoh into the severest Penalty!" (45) (46) Can you see bro how in verse 46 it says ? In front of the Fire will they be brought, morning and evening?, this is the two nightmares per day Pharaoh and his followers will get, it has to be this bro because the verse continue with a future event ? And (the sentence will be) on the Day that Judgment will be established ?Cast ye the People of Pharaoh into the severest Penalty!??, you see bro, the nightmare of seeing the hell twice a day is a different event to the judgment day and has to be before it. The final thing I yet to give you my thoughts is where the soul go when it is removed from the bodies after death or during sleep I can?t answer the one regarding sleep as I don?t know neither I read anything that suggest a location. For the destinations of the souls when they exit the body in the case of death, I have done some work a few years back and amazingly reached the same conclusion as my brother reached who is a doctor and live in different country and we never discussed our researches, the answer I believe is in verse 23100 you posted, let me put it here again 100- "In order that I may work righteousness in the things I neglected." - "By no means! It is but a word he says."- Before them is a Partition till the Day they are raised up. (100) Ok man, the key word here is ?? ?Barzakh?, translated as ?Partition ? or ?Barrier?, I actually see ?Barrier? is more accurate translation, another key word is ? ?, which means ?Behind them? or ?Before them?, the first Arabic word ?Barrier? is the closet you can get to describe the ?Event Horizon? of a Black Hole, it is the point with no return when crossed, but if you agree that Allah created the heaven and earth then He also created the Black Holes Some interesting facts about Black Holes is this Time stops behind the Event Horizon (i.e. inside the black hole), would that explain why we will feel the period between the death and resurrection as an hour of a day? No object can exit the black hole if the event Horizon is crossed, would that explain that no way the soul can return ?unless Allah wishes? to our bodies after we die? No one can see with any telescope what is inside the black holes, because light can not even escape the Event Horizon, ?The barrier?, ?The Barzakh?, would that explain that it is one of the secrets of our God and He deliberately prevents this to happen because the next phase for those souls imprisoned will be the resurrection, ?GAME OVER FOR THOSE?? Too many coincidence for me and it was the case to my brother, surely Allah can stop the black holes from holding our souls at the day of resurrection and release them so it return to the bodies and the distressful day starts, or what do you think? Hence and finally ?I?m sorry for the long comment as I found the subject is very interesting?, those people in no way has experienced death rather a sort of coma (possibly due to a medication or a specific chemical reaction? that causes the same symptoms for all of us Allah knows best Peace brother

Salaam Idolfree1, My thinking at this moment is that this "loan" could not be something physical such as monetary loan. I mean, He is The Rich, surely He does not need my material wealth. That leaves me with my spiritual wealth. I agree with you that the loan is our nafs, and that by doing zakat and jihad, we could achieve the purification of our nafs. In short, I think that the "beautiful loan" or "loan of righteousness" means our "nafs muthma'innah" (8927-2. Thanks. =adley=

Peace NoProgressive, Think of this life as the process for which you will be building your own eternity. All the good you do brings more light into your life, into your soul, and sunsequently, into the lives and souls of those around you. And everything bad you do, dims that light. In the end, you will either shine or you won't. You know the good because it warms you, it feels right, it feels uplifting and energizing. It makes you feel lighter. And the opposite holds true for the bad. It weighs you down as you spend energy trying to justify it in your own mind. It takes your focus away from the good things that surround you. Peace, Tay

Claurianta, I'm not trying to mock you - but just make sense to what you're saying (and hoping not to misunderstand you) - as I say if you feel that latest prophets are the most accurate ones, then the information revealed to the ten gurus of Sikhism (16th and 17th century) or Bah?'u'll?h by G-d (year 1844) might be even more accurate than The Koran. To clarify this point, I did not mean to say that a later revelation automatically makes something more accurate. I would say that in their time, all the revelations were equally accurate. However, the revelations have not maintained their original forms 100% (at least the ones I am acquinted with), with certain revelations (such as the New Testament) being the subject of very considerable rewrites by humans. Now, as for your assertion that the Koran, and other revelations I suppose (?) are the work of man, I do realize that we are at a problematic point. I cannot scientifically prove beyond all doubt that it is revelation, whereas the same goes for you... you cannot scientifically prove beyond all doubt that it is manmade. We both have good evidence on our sides, but no conclusive proof. Where does this leave us? We can continue our quest in searching for the truth, or we can just stick to our beliefs and not budge. I'm choosing the first path, fully realizing that the task is rather impossible. "Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it." - Andre Gide.

Hey zainab , you surely realise there arn't/wern't any sex with ma malakat aimanokum if you read the other post. Is it possible Ma malakat aimanokum are the wivescheck out the following of what it would mean- Mz357 423-25 Prohibited to you are- Your mothers, daughters, sisters;--------------a long list here. Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom you possess by/through oath/s . A decree of Allah upon you and have been made lawful for you what beyond these that you seek by your wealth desiring wedlock chastity not debauchery for what you benefit (of it) from them and you give them their bridal due as a duty and no sin on you for what you mutually agree (of it) after (its) prescription indeed Allah is All-Knowing All-Wise . And next ayah is about un-chast girls- i think. 004.025 And who not is able of you to AFFORD that he marry chaste believeing women from those who (want ) possession of oath, then from girls believing and Allah knows all about your faith you are one from another then marry them with permission of their guardians and give them their bridal due in a manner chaste not adulterous nor given to secret love affairs and when they are married and if they commit lewdness then upon them half of/what upon chaste women of the punishment this (is) for those who fear sin of you and Allah (is) All-Forgiviing Most Merciful. 004.003 YUSUFALI If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice. Mz357and if you fear that not you will be able to do justice al-yataama then marry what seems good to you of women two or three or four but if you fear that not you can do justice then one so is/are possessed by oath that will be more suitable to prevent you from doing injustice. 033.052 YUSUFALI It is not lawful for thee (to marry more) women after this, nor to change them for (other) wives, even though their beauty attract thee, except any thy right hand should possess (as handmaidens) and Allah doth watch over all things. Mz357It is not lawful for thee women after this ,nor to change them for (other) wives ,even though their beauty attract thee except what (you) possess through/by oath and Allah doth watch over all things. 070.030 YUSUFALI Except with their wives and the (captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (then) they are not to be blamed, Mz357Except with their mates is/are possessed through/by oaths for they are not to be blamed. i stand by this for now say 99 percent. God Be with you. Salaams and peace .. Following is the translation of Verses 424 & 25 of the Glorious Qur'aan by Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall. This is the most accurate translation of the Qur'aan .. even more correct than Yusuf Ali's. For slaves, the English translation is "whom your right hands possess." I have already explained enough about slaves in my last response. Who is this mz357? What business has he or her to translate the Quraan without any knowledge of it? Translating the Qur'aan is not everybody's job, and surely the translations of mz357 are the worst. I suggest to all brothers and sisters, please stick to Pickthall only. And all married women (are forbidden unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that ye seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery. And those of whom ye seek content (by marrying them), give unto them their portions as a duty. And there is no sin for you in what ye do by mutual agreement after the duty (hath been done). Lo! Allah is ever Knower, Wise. (424) And whoso is not able to afford to marry free, believing women, let them marry from the believing maids whom your right hands possess. Allah knoweth best (concerning) your faith. Ye (proceed) one from another; so wed them by permission of their folk, and give unto them their portions in kindness, they being honest, not debauched nor of loose conduct. And if when they are honorably married they commit lewdness they shall incur the half of the punishment (prescribed) for free women (in that case). This is for him among you who feareth to commit sin. But to have patience would be better for you. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (425)

Salaam, Yet another proof in the Qur'an. I have been familiar with this and the verses in the Qur'an. I completely agree with this evolution theory. The Big Bang theory is possibly, another scientific reference in the Qur'an. The Big Bang theory states that the "Big Bang" was so powerful, that the universe is still expanding. 5147 And We constructed the universe using matter, and We will expand it. Also.. http//www.submission.org/universe.html The proofs never cease. Much Respect and Peace, Mind

Salaam Alaikum and peace to all .. Allah has said that He has made the Qur'aan easy to understand. And indeed it is easy, Alhamdulilah. I implore my brothers and sisters to please refrain from interpretations involving such unnecessarily complicated analysis. This is totally needless and might only confuse the minds of the common people. Most importantly, it will encourage the adherents of Hadeeth to reiterate the Qur'aan's "dependency" on Hadeeth for explanation which is again completely false. Please let's be focused on keeping the tafseer to the best of our conscience .. correct, consise, to the point and simple. This is just my opinion, mean no offence to no one. Shokran and thanks. JazekAllah Khair .. Yes, the Koran is quite simple... ayat 16126 is quite clear on maximum punishment being proportional to the damage done. So it limits the punishment that can be demanded. It has often been interpreted as meaning that the punishment can be equal to the damage done, and I was simply showing how proportional does not always mean equal, and that it is the proportional criteria that is expounded in this away. There are other ayat which talk about the equality principle, and as I have stated elsewhere, this would seem to indicate that both must be followed in determining the maximum punishment (that is, you can break neither the proportionality nor the equality criteria in setting a maximum punishment). As for the equation I gave, it is translation of the word "proportional" into the language of mathematics, nothing else.

No worries bro but you have to be careful here because you are comparing two different languages Peace be with you

Peace claurianta. Sorry! ops I misunderstood what you said.Forced conversion is indeed different. I respect and agree with a lot of your last post. Thanks for the clarification. ) Peace. Peace enquirer. No problem. We are all here to try to understand, and I perhaps I didn't explain it well enough the first time. It is better to ask a question than to live in ignorance )