Questions/Comments on the Quran

1885 (free-minds numbering) So he followed the means. Until he reached the setting of the sun, and he found it setting at a boiling lake, and he found near it a people. We said "O Two Eras, either you are to punish, or you are to do them good." How is this? Salaam, I agree with Turth's post and to add to it The issue is in not carefully reading to understand the meaning not with the translation or if you like every other translation that has been posted here, or for that matter the Arabic. If you carefully read, the verse says, ...he found it setting at a boiling lake... The Quran is faithfully and truthfully reporting what this person found, how it looked to him. It does not say that God says that sun sets in water etc. This is what it looked to the person. In fact considering this a long time ago, he might have very well thought that sun sets in water, God knows. Do you see the difference? Each word of the Quran is chosen with absolute precision. Peace Now I'm confused. I thought the Qur'an was the word of Allah. Why should Allah put in his book the report of a man, who was not even a prophet? Why did not Allah say explicitly that the earth revolves around the sun, which we know to be the truth? After all, the Qur'an is Allah's word and Allah's word is the truth. Salaam Thanks for your reply. Quran is indeed the word of God. Similar to your question, why should God put quotes from the Pharoah in the Quran? For that matter there are many many people quoted or paraphrased in the Quran, why do that? To first order, the answer is found when considering, why should the sun rise from the East and not the West? Wouldn?t it be a cooler design if the sun rose sometimes from the East and sometimes from the West? The answer is that it is as it is and it is the best design as proven to myself in numerous cases. God?s Reality always beats human imagination. In this case the most important thing to notice is that what I pointed out is in fact how it is. God is reporting how it appeared to the person. The second order question as to why all of the Quran does not read as God talking to sun directly (do not worship other than God, do not cheat, etc) without using simultudes and explaining previous history, quoting the Pharoah etc, Quran itself answers it in many verses. The answer is that God gives all kinds of examples and uses all kinds of language (direct, quote, paraphrase, simultudes, ?) so that all people can take heed, all can relate to it, yet provide a fully detailed Quran that is full of knowledge incomparable to anything man-made, so that we take lesson from history, ponder and learn or turn unappreciative and turn sour to show our idol worship? Just one example, 12111 In their history, there is a lesson for those who possess intelligence. This is not fabricated Hadith; this (Quran) confirms all previous scriptures, provides the details of everything, and is a beacon and mercy for those who believe. Now if you mean the specific case of just why doesn?t God directly tell us that the earth circulates the Sun then the answer is that we are born in total freedom of choice, totally suspended in midst of freedom of choice to struggle or spend from our trust (volition) and act thus prove to our ownself who we choose as our god, God alone, or others besides him. The answer is that God similarly does not bring us into this world with the knowledge that the earth revolves around the us stamped on our forehead. We are not brought to this world to learn that the earth rotates the sun, we strive for all we have so that in the process we reveal to our own self leaving evidence of it in the material world of whether we choose God as god or we believe others can be god. Do you know how much man has struggled or strived to descover this? Same with the Quran. In the process you will prove to yourself who your God is. On the other hand God does not ask of us to accept what is not true. God does not put nonsense in the Quran and asks us to accept it on faith (the holy spirit nonsense of Paul in the Bible) Instead you will not find large amount of inconsistencies and what is in contradiction with reality in the Quran similar to what is found in every other book that claims to be answering the purpose of life. And the more you strive while not worshiping idols (being biased = worshiping idols) the more you will learn from the Quran. The day you will see things with eye of certainty is necessarily the day that this life is over. This life with all its wonders were created for us per our own request to be totally free side with God?s position, submit to God alon or Satan?s that there can be other gods beside God. 2210 Are they waiting until GOD Himself comes to them in dense clouds, together with the angels? When this happens, the whole matter will be terminated, and to GOD everything will be returned. 68 They also said, "If only an angel could come down with him!" Had we sent an angel, the whole matter would have been terminated, and they would no longer be respited. 69 Had we sent an angel, we would have sent him in the form of a man, and we would have kept them just as confused as they are confused now. Finally, why do you use the phrase Allah to refer to God when speaking English? Peace

Peace be upon you Shuiab, BUT, in the Quran there are points where the "ghayb" at least in part, are revealed to the Prophet (344), and apparently can relate to unknown/lost historal events, so ghayb doesn't necessarily have to do with the infinite. 1149 is another example. Yes, everything manifests from Al Ghayb, the unseen. We come from the infinite to the finite. Everything begins from that same source where energy and matter are not formed. Anyway, yes, the "ghayb" is revealed from time to time to others, but then it ceases to be "ghayb".

Salam 'alaikum, Hello to everyone. I really appreciate all your efforts and research. It helps me so much and I prefer seeing bros and sis talking and sharing better than fighting. I think that always has been a place. Everything happens in a place and there must be one place where Ibrahim first built an altar for God. Ignore this is quite naive as ignoring that there is a mountain on this earth where Moses received the Torah. It's not a tale, that mountain exists even if we don't know where it is. So we must discover where is maqam Ibrahim. Personally, I think it is on Mount Gerizim. If you open your Bible, you will see that the first place where Abraham built an altar was there,in Shechem, and after him, his sons and grandson Jacob went there to pray. The Samaritan Torah says that this is the only one place to sacrifice and do the pilgrimages quoted in Qur'an. Anyway, all rituals have a meaning because people feels connected with each other. But that's not the essential. The main point is believe in God and be good. If you have the chance to go on pilgrimage it will be a great experience. I would like to know your reasons why to refuse Mount Gerizim as the House and Masjid al Haram. My reasons to defend MG are that 1- Shechem first appears in the Tanakh in Genesis 126-8, which records how Abraham reached the "great tree of Moreh" at Shechem and offered sacrifice nearby. Later Joseph's bones were brought out of Egypt and reburied at Shechem. 2- We next see Shechem during the time of Abraham?s grandson, Jacob (Gen. 34). ?erected an altar there and called it El Elohe Israel? (Gen. 3320). 3- Shechem was appointed as a city of refuge after the Conquest of Canaan by the Israelites (Josh. 207). It was also the place where Joshua renewed the covenant with the tribes of Israel, and where they pledged to ?serve the LORD? (Josh. 2421). We are told that Joshua set up a large stone (what archaeologists call a masseba) and, ?set it up there under the oak that was by the sanctuary of the LORD? (Josh. 2426). I recommend to read this article http//www.georgefox.edu/academics/seminary/courses/bst550/reports/RJohanson/Shechem.html Give me your impressions please. Salam 'alaikum.

Nice observation Ayman! We can say the same thing about abraham and his son (37102).

PEACE, /JM/, PRIEST So, while you believe, as I do that, the Jinns are homo sapien sapiens, you disagree that Iblis, himself, is a homo sapien sapien...is this your position? Yes ! Well, at least we agree the Jinn are homo sapien sapiens. I read your links and thanks much, but, would you mind just summarizing on this thread, by way of Ayats, your understanding of why the Jinn are homo sapien sapiens? Thanks again. Peace.

Hey and welcome Mila! Actually it doesn't say so. You might wanna have a look here http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3016 How come is it that you ask about this, by the way?

Salaams Khan sahib, Wa Alaikum Salaams brother, I am not a grammatist so i use lanes mainly Even myself is a learner brother. p 1081 Arassal Ilaihe Rasoolan = He sent to him a message/or a letter/or a messenger. p 1083 Thoo Rasoolin = One who has a message. And your next "Ya'tia" 2109 it means "Brings" Thank you for the corrections. But I have just picked up the words from the translation. But actually I only wanted to show the points that I have bolded or used in brackets. Like Rasool has been used in that verse and not AlRasool. Hope you know the difference. and for other uses of this word please see the translation of the following ayah's. http//www.openburhan.com/ob_main_frame.html But saying all this you choose what you like , Thanks. The Gods Blessings - be on all. Here I would like to thank the owners of www.openburhan.com. It is really an excellent work. May Allah give them the Best reward. It is really very helpful for us and others. May Allah guide us all towards the correct path. Regards, MMKhan

Peace, In this issue I would caution against neglecting the technical depth of al-quraan. This word 'sin' , in my experience, it has been translated from words like 'ithm', 'dhunb' , 'sharr', 'soo'' and others. Al-quraan's technical depth has seldom been taken seriously by translators. Another thing to look at is this concept of 'ghafr' , from which 'forgive' has been translated This word is better translated as 'protect' rather than forgive. Please see the ayat below (8/33)But Allah was not going to send them a penalty whilst thou wast amongst them; nor was He going to send it whilst they could ask for pardon The words 'could ask for pardon' arent there at all. Rather we have wa maa kaana Allahu And Allah wasn't muazzibahum a punisher to them wa hum while they (are) yastaghfiroon they ask seeking ghafr. So 'ghafr' isnt forgiveness at all. Its an act leading to aversion of harm. thanks and peace You are so right. The traditional translators have notoriously made all these words synonyms. The true sense and concepts of the ayats are lost along with the very profoundity and precision of the reading. Ghafara is always to protect in the reading. Again the translators decide that forgive fits better rather than what the God has revealed. We make the choice to seek protection by obeying the commands in the system and following the guidance, actions, and the results of this correct choice will be His promised protection. It is the God's infallible law of cause and effect and we are not arbitrarily "forgiven" by God. We must try to understand the ayats with the word used even if at first we find ourselves confused. This is what is meant by pondering and reflection and study.

Abraham was a nation/community, obedient/devoted to The God, a monotheist/unifier, and he was not of those who set-up partners. The story of Abraham can be found here 2124-129, 2130-132, 2135, 2136, 2140, 2258, 2260, 365, 367-68, 384, 395, 397, 454-55, 4125, 4163, 674-83, 6161, 970, 9114, 1169-76, 126, 1238, 1435, 1551-56, 16120, 16123, 1941-49, 1958, 2151-73, 2226, 2243, 2278, 2669, 2916, 2925, 2931, 337, 3783-109, 3845, 4213, 4326, 5124-34, 5337, 5726, 604-5, 8719

salam all . this is my revised understanding of my initial posts on this thread . Nabi is the one who is on a higher level (where he recieves revelation from Allah) or one who gives us news or information . Rasool is the one who is sent to do or say something . NABI IS ALSO A RASOOL WHO RECIEVES INFORMATION FROM ALLAH AND IS SENT TO GIVE INFORMATION TO HUMAN. A Nabi is sent to inform humans . He is the one who is on a higher level or higher ground than others ,where he receives revelation form Allah . 1149 This is of the tidings of the Unseen which We inspire in thee (Muhammad). Thou thyself knewest it not, nor did thy folk (know it) before this? Mankind were one community, and Allah sent (unto them) NABIs as bearers of good tidings and as warners, and revealed therewith the Scripture with the truth that it might judge between mankind concerning that wherein they differed? Muhammad was the last nabi , no one after him will attain the status among humans to receive any information through revelation from Allah to deliver to the humanity . MUHAMMED WAS THE LAST NABI . BUT WHY NOT THE LAST RASOOL? AND WHO ARE THE RASOOLS WHO WILL COME AFTER HIM . RK ? Shareef ? Qadiyani ?!! Koran clearly states that Muhammed was the last NABI and a RASOOL of Allah . Some people argue that since Koran does not state that Muhammed was the final RASOOL that means that there are more RASOOLs to come and that is why we have seen and heard, in recent times ,many people claiming to be RASOOLs of Allah and requiring people to believe in their messengership . So who are those RASOOLs who can come after Muhammad ? I believe that they misinterpret the word ?Rasool?. They think that only a human can be a RASOOL. But that is a wrong idea according to the Koran which tells us that non-human beings can also be RASOOLs(not NABIs . only humans can be NABIs ) Non human RASOOLs The angels are also RASOOLs 2277 Allah chooseth from the angels RASOOLs, and (also) from mankind. Lo! Allah is Hearer, Seer. 351 Praise be to Allah, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, who appointeth the angels RASOOLs? The ?angels of death? are also called RASOOLs He is the Omnipotent over His slaves. He sendeth guardians over you until, when death cometh unto one of you, Our RASOOLs receive him, and they neglect not. Who doeth greater wrong than he who inventeth a lie concerning Allah or denieth Our tokens. (For such) their appointed portion of the Book (of destiny) reacheth them till, when Our RASOOLs come to gather them, they say Where (now) is that to which ye cried beside Allah? They say They have departed from us. And they testify against themselves that they were disbelievers. The servants(probably angels?) of Allah who record our every move are also called RASOOLs And when We cause mankind to taste of mercy after some adversity which had afflicted them, behold! they have some plot against Our revelations. Say Allah is more swift in plotting. Lo! Our RASOOLs write down that which ye plot. Gabriel also functions as a RASOOL who revealed the Koran to the NABI?s heart . Say (O Muhammad, to mankind) Who is an enemy to Gabriel! For he it is who hath revealed (this Scripture) to thy heart by Allah's leave, confirming that which was (revealed) before it, and a guidance and glad tidings to believers; And lo! it is a revelation of the Lord of the Worlds, Which the True Spirit hath brought down upon thy heart, that thou mayest be (one) of the warners, Who is an enemy to Allah, and His angels and His RASOOLs, and Gabriel and Michael! Then, lo! Allah (Himself) is an enemy to the disbelievers. The Koran has also been called a RASOOL in 6511, not NABI, all RASOOLs are not NABIs . NABIs are those humans ,as explained before ,who are sent to give news or to warn . Allah hath prepared for them stern punishment; so keep your duty to Allah, O men of understanding! O ye who believe! Now Allah hath sent down unto you a reminder, A RASOOL(Koran) reciting unto you the revelations of Allah made plain, that He may bring forth those who believe and do good works from darkness unto light. so we see that Muhammed was the last NABI, but he could not have been the last RASOOL in the presence of so many other RASOOLs .The angels of death , Gabriel , the Koran etc are all RASOOLs . It is only in this way that Muhammed was not the last RASOOL. We also see that angels ,Koran etc are called RASOOLs not NABIs . That is because only a human can be a NABI. In the Koran only the human RASOOLs are called NABIs, for example 1930, 1941 ,1949 ,1953 ,1956. and Muhammed was the final NABI (human RASOOL) . Now we see that a NABI is one among many types of RASOOLs of Allah . What we learn from the Koran . NABIs are only one type of RASOOLs of Allah ,among many others types(for example angels of deaths , Gabriel etc). ie all NABIs are RASOOLs but all RASOOLs are not necessarily NABIs or humans . Muhammed was the last nabi , but ,due to the presence of so many non human RASOOLs, not the last RASOOL. So expect no more revelations and humans message bearers or warners i.e NABIs. Looking forward to your opinions. Who is guilty of more wrong than he who forgeth a lie against Allah, or saith I am inspired, when he is not inspired in aught?

Whoa, a faith healer.

Peace. It Still doesn't mean it can't be anything other than human does it? http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3252

peace, It is most likely a numbering issue. Please read the foreword http//www.free-minds.org/quran/PM/P The change in numbering will inevitbly cause confusion for people, but one should read the foreword before reading the actual translation. I do not subscribe to the new numbering... yet. Wakas

I like it truth, let us know when you complete all 114 chapters. )

peace brother shamsul, My comment was specifically for someone's comment. It was not meant as an interpretation/understanding of the sign. The following is posted for information purposes only 675 And indeed, We have beautified the sky of the world with shining lamps. And made them objects of futile guesses for the satans. (1517, 376-9, 728 ) And for them We have prepared the doom of blazing flames. [Astrologers, fortune-tellers, clairvoyants, mystics, and Sufis who, for selfish gains, claim knowledge of the Unseen and the future, are either themselves deceived or deceive others. ?Rajm? also denotes speaking out of conjecture like throwing stones randomly, or shooting in the dark Wakas sorry bro...d pls continue.. ops

peace, this question can be answered by considering what is the purpose of al quran? Once its purpose is determined, then one can think about how best to acheive /implement this purpose. Wakas

peace be upon you andya, Peace Idris, Wow, great job! If you can keep this up we can put this permanently as some kind of 'Who's Who in the Qur'an' in the main site. I believe you have something in store for other figures mentioned by name in the Qur'an? (ie. Nuh, Yusuf, Dzulqarnain, Mary, Luqman, etc) yeah it would be easier if i used burhan but the yusuf ali translation is terrible, thats why im doin this with the free-minds translation plus im gettin the context of the signs as well, I'll attempt to do the rest of the people in the reading soon except if the God wills

Salaams Born again, 325 He arranges the command from heaven to the earth then will go up to Him in a day (that) is set for the conduct of your transgressions. 1992 not all who are in the heavens and the earth but comes (unto) the most Gracious as a slave. 704 (will) incline the angels and the spirit to him in Day is determined/set up - armies united in conduct. 078.038 YUSUFALI The Day that the Spirit and the angels will stand forth in ranks, none shall speak except any who is permitted by (Allah) Most Gracious, and He will say what is right. This is using Quranic Dictionary and lanes lex. But we must use our own judgment ? finally. God Bless.

Peace Eximan n all First about the verse 2/ 134 That was a nation that has passed away; to them is what they have earned, and to you is what you have earned; and you will not be asked regarding what they did. The versus before 2134 was about Prophet Abrahim n Allah told us about his rightness the verse 2134 is directed to the the whole of huminity in whicih Allah explain that every one will be responsible for his own times n his own sins n goods e.g the deed of my forefather has nothing to with me they r responsible for there deeds n i,m responsible for my own deeds n both of the generation will be judge for there own deeds. 2nd about 261 And you said ?O Moses, we will not be patient to one type of food, so call for us your Lord that He may bring forth what the Earth grows of its beans, cucumbers, garlic, lentils, and onions.? He said ?Would you trade that which is lowly with that which is good?? Descend to Egypt, you will have in it what you have asked for. They were thus stricken with humiliation and disgrace, and they remained under God?s wrath for they were disbelieving in God?s signs, and killing the prophets with no justification; this is for what they have disobeyed and transgressed. i don,t see any thing here which says that every generation of jews will be humilated 4 wut there ancesters did in fact the next verse explain it very clearly 262 Surely those who believe, and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and the Sabiens; any one of them who believes in God and the Last Day, and does good work, they will have their reward with their Lord, with no fear over them, nor will they grieve. so God?s wrath is 4 those who continue to do and they remained under God?s wrath for they were disbelieving in God?s signs, and killing the prophets with no justification; this is for what they have disobeyed and transgressed God wraths is not upoun the person who save his or her self from the bed things as said in 262 peace

True say zenje, true say.