Islamic Calendar & Ramadhan.

Salaamun alaikum brother JHamza, I somehow missed this post of years and hence the delayed reply. Huwa allathee jaAAala alshshamsadiyaan waalqamara nooran waqaddarahu manazilalitaAAlamoo AAadada alssineena waalhisabama khalaqa Allahu thalika illa bialhaqqiyufassilu al-ayati liqawmin yaAAlamoona It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light (of beauty), and measured out stages for her; that ye might know the number of years and the count (of time). Nowise did Allah create this but in truth and righteousness. (Thus) doth He explain His Signs in detail, for those who understand. I believe this is referring to a solar yr,reckoning the yr by the sun and the use of the moon for the beginning of the months. From 105, it can be seen that the learning of the number of years and calculation are helped by either or both the sun and the moon, however there is no mention of a specific stage of the moon. Let us see the other verses on this topic 696 Initiator of morning and Maker of the night to reside in; and the sun and the moon for counting. Such is the measure of the Noble, the Knowledgeable. Here also either or both the sun and the moon can be used for counting. 1712 And We made the night and the day as two signs, so We erased the sign of night and We made the sign of day to see-in, that you may seek bounty from your Lord, and that you may know the number of the years and the count. And everything We have detailed completely. Given that night and day is certainly determined by the sun and not the moon, the sign in 1712 leaves absolutely no doubt that the year is solar. 1247 He said "You will plant regularly for seven years, and whatever you harvest you must leave it in its pods, except for the little that you will eat." 1248 "Then will come seven after that which are severe in drought and which will consume all that you plant except for what you have stored." 1249 "Then after that will come a year in which the people will have abundant rain and which they will be able to produce once again." More confirmation is in 1247-49 that talk about the "year" definitely as a solar year because of reference to agricultural cycles and planning of crops that would have to be done according to seasons that don't change from one year to the next. They ask thee concerning the New Moons. Say They are but signs to mark fixed periods of time in (the affairs of) men, and for Pilgrimage. It is no virtue if ye enter your houses from the back It is virtue if ye fear Allah. Enter houses through the proper doors And fear Allah That ye may prosper. From the above we can see that new moons are set to mark the beginning of months and for us to know the beginning of Pilgrimage.Not Full moons. First of all the arabic word used is "ahila(t)" which is the plural of "hilal" and according to ALL Arabic lexicons it means CRESCENT MOONS which are the moon in BOTH its beginning and its end. Most translators ignore this fact and instead claim that "hilal"/"ahila(t)" means only the new moon which is the incorrect translation. So the correct translation would be 2189 They ask you regarding the CRESCENT MOONS, Say "They are a timing mechanism for the people as well as for the hajj." And piety is not that you would enter a home from its back, but piety is whomever is righteous and come to the homes from their main doors. And be aware of God that you may succeed. According to the corrected translation, crescent moons in general (both the thinning crescent and the widening crescent) can serve as timing devices. The "ahila(t)" (crescent moons) are described as the "mawaqeet" (timing mechanism) for people and the hajj. There are 24-26 "ahila(t)" in a solar year. "Mawaqeet" does not mean ONLY the timing of the beginning but it can also mean timing of the end. One cannot use "hilal" to time both the start and end of the several 40 day periods talked about in the great reading or the 10 day period of "hajj" and of abstinence. Hence, it must be that the "hilal" in those cases is used to time either the end or the beginning. Given the evidence, it is most likely to be used as a timing device for the end of "hajj". Remember 2189 and the example of ENTERING through the obvious/clear and apparent one front door ("the obvious one full-moon") and not the non-obvious back of the house ("the unobvious crescents"). However, there is nothing that says that we can't EXIT the house through the unobvious back doors. It is exactly 10 days from the full moon to the thinning crescent. So the period of "hajj" would start at the full moon and end at the thinning crescent.

Salam, There is book by PM.org called "The Natural Republic" which lays out a sample calendar for use. Download the zip file http//www.free-minds.org/TNR.zip The sample calendar can also be found on this page http//www.free-minds.org/articles/science/calendars.htm More... http//www.free-minds.org/calendars.htm SALAM, Ive read the article and the article on PM the PM article makes alot of since..if we are going to have a calendar with a leap month.I couldnt get the zip file to open. But having 12 months with 30 days like the first article says will leave the yr off by 5 days every yr,so there would be a need to have 5 months with 31 days and 7 months with 30 days (total 365 days) and then a day would have to be added at times to one of the other months.But with this style months would not begin exactly on the new moons,so having a luni-solar calendar makes the most since for a secular calendar if we have to have An Islamic calendar at all...

Peace JHamza, Yes that helped thanks..but whats so special about the night before the night of the scorching/burning full moon? Are we not allowed to eat,etc on the other nights of abstinence?Or is it just because the day time period before the fasting will be our last day until after the fasting that we may enjoy those pleasures? It is the night before the abstinance NOT the night before the night of the scorching/burning full moon. The first night of abstinance is itself the night of the scorching/burning full moon. It is called the night of abstinance because it is the night before we start the abstinance. It is kind of like Christmas eve is called so because it is the night before Christmas. So for every night of those 10 days we can eat and drink until dawn and then complete the abstinance until sunset (the start of night). Peace, Ayman Peace unto You also Ayman, Thanks for clearing that up for me,sorry to be such a bother..

I have been pondering the idea of Ramadan being 30 days, not 30 days in a row, as the person who started this thread was pointing to. If the Quran refers to Ramadan as the month the Quran was revealed, does it only mean the first time it was related or started? If the Quran was given to Muhammad over many years , wouldn't it make sense that it would have been revealed in every month ? I like what the original poster said about fasting after one has received a revelation. After one has received enlightenment, a new understanding, etc., then fast the next day. A few days ago I completed the traditional Ramadan fasting, but it is done more as an obligation, or duty. So now I am trying to find a new understanding of Ramadan and fasting. I would welcome discussions on this.

Peace Priest, Do you know what..."fasting an equal number of days", actually means in Al-Quran? I only see "number of days" - so i don't take into account lenght of day of temperature, or if the fast is done in a row or intermittend. Give me your understanding please. LK Sorry to say but...I don't know at this time.

Peace, So I think it's quite clear that there is no such thing as a holy or sacred month or time. The restricted months have the purpose of defining hunting seasons to protect animal populations as explained well by Ayman. Otherwise each day is as important as any other in terms of the blessings we get from the God; and equal in so far as the benefits of doing good works. There is no extra reward or special time or month which has extra reward for us like traditionalists believe. Regards.

Peace, Thank you for your thoughtful questions. Ayman you say in your article that "the full-moon around the summer solstice is special because it follows a lower path across the sky compared to the rest of the year's full moons and for some reason our brains are wired to perceive such full-moons as larger than normal." Can Ayman you provide us evidence of what you advance? This is not something that I advanced. It is well known and you probably saw this reddish colored full-moon in past summers. It is the most spectacular full-moon and it grabs the attention of people if they happen to be outside that night and see it. For more info on why the full-moon around the summer solstice is special, please see http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast14jun_1.htm Why don't you expressed last year at the time of the summer solstice to recall that the abstinence begins? I am not sure I understand your question. This year's summer solstice occurred on June 21st. The scorching full moon occurred on the night of June 21-22. So the fasting started on the dawn of June 22 and lasted for 10 days, i.e. until July 1st. We count four full moons (including the scorching full-moon) to determine the restriction period. For this year, the fourth full-moon was on September 18. For 2005-2006, there will be 13 full-moons between the summer solstices. We are to count only 12 as per 936. Thus, we would not count the 13th moon. So the next scorching full-moon will be on July 11, 2006. All the information that I am giving is for the Northern hemisphere. For the southern hemisphere, the timing will be different but again this is natural because the period for hunting restrictions will have to be different. how translate if shahr does not mean "month" And those who die from you and leave spouses, they (the spouses) should wait on themselves four full-moons and ten (days). So when they reach their term, there is no blame on you for what they do in themselves with recognized good; and The God is informed of what you do. 2234 is in line with 2189, which says that the crescents are timing devices for people in general (not just for "7ajj"). In this case, the ten extra days is the exact time it takes for the full-moon to reach the crescent stage again. Can you explain this passage "Another interesting connection is in 2187, which talks about the night of the abstinence ("laylat al-siyam") in which we may approach our wives and eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn and then complete the abstinence until the night (i.e., until sunset since night starts being merged into day at sunset - for example see 2261). We already established that abstinence is then for ten days. In Chapter 89 we also hear about the dawn and then 10 nights" Which is the relationship between the abstinence of which you speak and the fact of being able to approach our wives, to eat and drink until the white wire is distinct from the black wire of the paddle. I do not understand your question. The Arabic says "... ... The passage in English can be translated as "and eat and drink until the white thread from the black thread of dawn is revealed to you then complete the abstinence until the night". The expression "until it is revealed to you the white thread from the black thread of dawn" is a metaphor for the start of dawn. Does the relationship between couple have a bond with the laws of hunting? No. I just try to understand your article because my English language isn't very good. I test to understand your interpretation. I understand and I appreciate your sincerity and I will try to explain as best as I can. Do you know Arabic? In this case, I can provide more Arabic explanations. Please let me know if you have other questions. Peace, Ayman

SaLaM Truth Only the God knows whether your fasts are accepted but there would be less doubt if you either stopped smoking during fasting or fed/paid for the feeding of someone in place of your fast. Indeed brother. I understand that completely. That is why i look at the Quran for the answer. Am i breaking the fast by smoking? is smoking equal to eating, drinking or sexual intercourse? my conclusion is 'No' it isnt. Even you agree with that. As for Shareef's medical condition, i think God will allow the perosn to take his/her meds for medical reason and still continue to keep his/her fast. Still thinking this through tho.

Peace Tony, On the one hand you say... Yes, the Quran is being revealed to us even today... And then in the same breath... it was required (fasting during ramadhan) only for those who witnessed or who was present in the month of the revelation of the Quran a long time ago ...and I "felt" that God has revealed to me... Be careful of desire, it's not always necessarily God revealing when you 'feel' it. But do you think my opinion is wrong? If so, why ? You're not wrong, and I'm not right... we just have the information, the trick is to put it all together. I think Marie and Ayman have presented it pretty well on this and other threads. Peace.

BBC article about the complexities of trying to spot the new moon via sunni/shia interpretation of Ramadan.

SaLaM Everyone Here is a question ive been thinking about. Suppose a person does not fasts. He thinks that he will feed the poor to make up for he fasts he didnt keep. But he never has enough money to feed the poor and he dies. Do you think he will be punished? Even tho he had the true intentions of feeding the poor? Peace Jaxal - Bismillahir rohmaanir roheem

Peace loli I'm in the same position as you, still trying to work things out, but could I please make a suggestion. Although I respect RK for the good in some of his work, I would suggest researching actual roots for words such as naazil, and ramadhan. Using classical arabic lexicons would definitely be the way to go - try PRL by brother Wakas at www.studyquran.org Or even try reading and criticising articles available at FM, such as that by brother Ayman (called "Blind Dating Versus Perfect Timing"). I'm working on this at the moment, but haven't come to a conclusion as yet.

Ayman, I think what you said yourself has to be taken into account. You can count 1000 on your fingers if you wanted to. Furthermore I would look at more than just that dictionary. It's great when you have more than one. For instance I discovered the meaning khamr as 'intoxication/enebriation' by looking at a dictionary by Salmone Habib. I have no way of gettting to it now. But it offered good meanings that other dictionaries didn't bother with. If someone in Philadelphi could visit the Universtiy of Penn library and go up to their Middle East department and look for this book(it's green) you would be greatly appreciative for this dictionaries more extensive approach. It lacks some meaning of other dictionaries but has meanings that aren't usually put in alot of dictionaries. Hava dictionary of Classical Arabic also has meanings not usually found LIsaan al-Arab and Lane's lexicon. It's like looking in an English dictionary. Sometimes Webster has meanings that Oxford doesn't have (for reasons of space, limited resources etc.) Godbless, ProGod

Peace All, Sorry for letting this post slip through the cracks. Zenje stated Tay is a girl? ?? rotfl I pee standing up Sytalls stated Sorry, Tay. No problemo LoteTree stated And judging from the content of his posts I would say he too has the same generosity of spirit, wisdom and courage as the legendary Hatim Tai! Thank you kindly for the generous words. I am truly humbled. Natu stated What did you say to that co-worker then? evil I promptly told him that the guy was deaf. My co-worker was actually a cool guy - just a little rough around the edges. Peace, Tay

peace upon you ayman, Peace Idris, After pondering on your question some more, I think that we need to consider the purpose of 7ajj/debate. Here is something that I had posted on another thread that I think might help My understanding is that "7ajj" is a gathering like the annual fair. People come from all over to trade, get benefits, meet other people, and be reminded of The God's favors. We are told in 2227 that Ibrahim invited people "WITH/BI al-7ajj" and not "TO/ILA al-7ajj" to witness benefits. You can only invite ALL people with something beneficial and non-descriminatory. We are told in 2827 that Moses was hired to work for 8 "7ijaj". What was hired to do? Clearly, he was hired to work and tend for sheep (2823-24) and NOT for any religious pilgrimage. What does working and tending sheep has to do with "7ajj"? Naturally, people work and produce so that they can BARGAIN with their products. Bargaining is a kind of debate and it results in witnessing benefits by the seller and the buyer. Thus, "al-7ajj"/the debate is like the annual fair where people work all year and then go to sell and/or buy products. Mid summer - early fall is the natural time for such markets because produce and livestock are plentiful. The large gathering of "7ajj" provides a good opportunity to remind as many people as possible of The God. It is also an opportunity for the advantaged to donate and provide for the disadvantaged. When one keeps in mind the purpose of the debate, one can see that the time where in general produce and livestock are plentiful is the best time for the debate. The burning/red full-moon takes place between June 21-July 20 or so. The natural time to harvest most crops takes place from mid-July to about mid-October. On another thread, brother Beatnik mentioned the harvest moon, which occurs after the autumn equinox. This moon is called so because its light gives farmers extra time to work and harvest their crops before the end of the season. At this stage, I think that out of the four restricted full-moons, the first full-moon (the burning/red full-moon) is for abstinence, while the remaining three are for the debate. I hope this helps. Peace and all best wishes, Ayman good explanation, I'll be abstaining this summer solstice except if The God wills, I find it interesting that the three months of harvest occur directly after the full moon of the summer solstice, which is ramadan

Peace angel, Just to offer my own perspective. I'm quite addicted to coffee. But each year in Ramadhan I try to stay away from coffee and other caffeine sources for a month. I like to tell myself that this is a way to prove that I'm still in control of my own body and I'm not enslaved by the addiction. There is a great feeling when your will can still conquer your bodily cravings. It gives me confidence that whatever my material body desires, my mind can still restrain it. Then again, I always return to my usual fix after 'Id...

I would like to respond to the post that began with this as its beginning Peace, Here is another post from a another forum Analysing Quran Posted By Madam Kim Seok-Im, Ph.D. Date Wednesday, 6 October 2004, at 1214 p.m. kehadapan majlis saudara Saim Bakar yang dihormati, Selamat, I'll respond to it in points There is no evidence that the Koran was ever understood as a book whose vowels could be changed. The Koran was mainly preserved orally and secondarily preserved as a text. The Arabic script was very deficient in its beginnings and did not develop a widely understood or comprehensive system for vocalizations/vowels until quite later, around the time that the Koran was finally written completely vowelled. As the Koran was preserved mainly orally it always had vowels/vocalizations even if there was not system (or desire in later unvowelled cases) to write them into the texts. Classical Arabic is different from Aramaic and its dialects. To try to interpret Classical Arabic through Aramaic is just as wrong as trying to interpret French with Spanish or French with Italian. These are totally separate languages, despite their similarities. It is completely illogical to try to interpret the literature of one language through other languages, despite ample information on the language itself. This in my opinion is a crime that should not be perpetuated. The crime of religious scholars had been that they have limited the availability of knowledge on Classical Arabic and its grammars, as well as promoted their "religious" understandings of words when those words are seen in the Koran. They dynamism of the Koran can and only will come through the exhaustive study of the Classical Arabic language, with all of its uncommon forms, grammars and dialectical variations. Once these things are taken into consideration and conjured up "religious" understandings coined in post-koranic times are eradicated from our understanding of the language as it concerns the Koran then the dynamism of the Koran will really open up to us. Not through looking to other languages in order to understand the Koran. The work that has been done on the Classical Arabic language, the analysis of its grammar and workings is enough to open up the Koran. Those who don't know this haven't really explored the grammar of the Classical Arabic language. Those who deny this don't want to explore the grammar of the Classical Arabic language, for their own biased reasons. Godbless, Anwar

Salaams all, i think we all need to step back and follow what our own thoughts ,or minds convey . May Allah bless us all,and guidance is for you if you proposedly look,search ,find and Allah helps.My Salaams.

Ramadan cannot be broken up into two words rama has no root. It is not an Arabic word. Ramyun is a noun and ramy daani would make sense but not rama (raa, fathah, meem fatha) daani (dawd, alif, ya, kasrah) ramaa (with an added alif to make it agree with the root ramaa) daani doesn't even make sense because it should be ramaa daanin

Salaams ayman,all, sometimes we hate disbelieving what we have been taught for years and years ,but it may often be better to investigate rather then except blindly you gave three prime examples to an extent ,i can reply to one , as thats all the time i currently have. you said (without checking - i believe) "We are told about "adam" and spouse being ordered not to eat from the tree." 720 Shajara=stock or origin of a person(quranic Dict) Sowaato=The external portions of the organs of generation(lanes p145 And they didn't eat from the tree they both ate of the tree. New Trans Thus he led them(both) with deceit but when they both tasted the tree(It is the sexual thingy-stock) was exposed to them both their private parts and they began covering themselves with leaves (of)paradise and called out to them their lord did not i forbid you (from) that tree and tell you.............