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Islamic Calendar & Ramadhan.

Do we use a 365-day year or a lunar count or both?. And when are the days of fasting?.

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  • Ramadan

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    Peace, If you live in a tropic region then I'm sure you have a season where it is hotter than other seasons. If it is the the same all year long then just pick one month out of the year to fast in. Peace, I used to disagree with the extreme heat idea. But now I do agree with it. However, there had to be some reconciliation with grammatical features. The only way it works is if shah-ru ramadaana is read s shahru-rramadaana and understood as shah-run ramadaanan, which would equal shah-run saifan, and the alladhee has to refer to the Quran, and the hi in feehi to God/ in it(referring to the month). Therefore shahruramadaana (A month of during heat (literally heat-wise) alladhee unzila feehi al-quraanu (what was revealed in it, was this reading (the Quran). So definitely I agree that we should fast for 30 days during our summer (extremely/consistently hot) seasons. And if we have to suffer through this to complete this task then we can make it up by feeding someone in need for each day of fasting we miss. As for a month being 30 days I've discussed this in other posts and shown how the Quran consistenly relates a month (shahrun) to 30 days. The one case where it would seem it doesn't is not equalling the daily fasting to it's compensation but mentioning compensation for another act (being when separate from out wives out of enmity and animosity, even violently) For a site with this info you can go to www.quranists.com and go to the link "Times for hajj and Ramadan" Godbless, Anwar P.S. Shahru ramadaana is not possesive. Seconly shahrun does not mean full moon. This is not a definition of the word to be found in any dictionary. Lastly 1 full moon to another full moon is not a shahr if shahr just means full moon, which it doesn't. The only way to understand sharu ramadaan is as a pronunciation of shahrun ramadanan which would equal shah-run saifan. or A month in summer (time of constant or extreme heat).
  • When Is Ramadan in 2007?

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    Peace, If you want the times go to www.quranists.com/HajjandRamadan.html Godbless, Anwar
  • Re: Islamic Calendar Article

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    Peace, If you live in a tropic region then I'm sure you have a season where it is hotter than other seasons. If it is the the same all year long then just pick one month out of the year to fast in. Peace, I used to disagree with the extreme heat idea. But now I do agree with it. However, there had to be some reconciliation with grammatical features. The only way it works is if shah-ru ramadaana is read s shahru-rramadaana and understood as shah-run ramadaanan, which would equal shah-run saifan, and the alladhee has to refer to the Quran, and the hi in feehi to God/ in it(referring to the month). Therefore shahruramadaana (A month of during heat (literally heat-wise) alladhee unzila feehi al-quraanu (what was revealed in it, was this reading (the Quran). So definitely I agree that we should fast for 30 days during our summer (extremely/consistently hot) seasons. And if we have to suffer through this to complete this task then we can make it up by feeding someone in need for each day of fasting we miss. As for a month being 30 days I've discussed this in other posts and shown how the Quran consistenly relates a month (shahrun) to 30 days. The one case where it would seem it doesn't is not equalling the daily fasting to it's compensation but mentioning compensation for another act (being when separate from out wives out of enmity and animosity, even violently) For a site with this info you can go to www.quranists.com and go to the link "Times for hajj and Ramadan" Godbless, Anwar
  • Who synchronized the days in the week on a global scale?

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    Peace maxq, all, Just wondering why "Friday" was designated as "Juma'h" ... Freija is the same goddess as the Roman Venus (Veneris or Venus day is Friday in Latin), the Greek Aphrodite and the Arab Allat (mentioned in 5319). Thus it is no wonder that sectarians who idolize Allat's black cuboidal structure and Black Stone also took the fertility goddess's day as their "Holy-day".
  • Ramadan Kareem, for those of you who are fasting!

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    salam, I'm fasting too. But I wished I could have fast during the hottest months ( peace sis Maria
  • Ramadan

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    As salamu alaykum wr wb. Respectfully. Okay, we need to solve this problem of ours When is Ramadan and how long does it last? Cuz i was under the impression that it is inside of a Hottest Month and it lasts 30 days. Now, if i missed something, cuz i haven't been on the forum lately, please, tell me. Thanks and God Bless us all. As salamu alaykum wr wb.
  • an opportunity?

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    Salam,could not ghasak be the the property of the night..till the darkness of THE night..the darkness belongs to the night it could well be the property of the night?
  • Do We Really Have to Abstain From Food and Drinks?

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    Salaam, A response from bro Phil Peace bro tanveer. Thanks for sharing your thought. Agreeing with you that "shawm" in Q1926 is not related to abstinence to eating and drinking but self-restrain from talking. But the way I see, the diphtong "fa" in the ayats indicates a continous/interconnected events that relates to the "shawm" and to "eat and drink" and to "will not talk". Thus the idea of after eat and drink, then you fast/abstinence as per your translation to me is ignoring the role of "fa" in the ayats. On top of that, the translation of having to declare a fast for the Almighty to me is questionable. Are we suppose to believe that the Almighty needs us to fast for Him? Hope to get some clarifications. What I see, in essence the ayat talks about eat and drink fast not talk Being in abstinence/fast as per Q1926 means not talking, (need helps on this, literally talking or ?) but at the same time you eat and drink. (refers back to Q1925, hence physically eat and drink) Now relate back the "shawm" in Q2187, we see another element being added as one performs the "shawm" intercourse at night of the fasting and eat and drink until the thread the white appears from the thread the black from the dawn then complete the fasting to the night and do not touch their outer skin (while) you are devoting in the mosques/places of worshipping God. As for no 2, I'm in line with what bro adley had mentioned earlier and further evidence is from the reading Q575. (not physically eat the food? rather gain the guidance from the message?) Therefor to associate no 3 with abstinence from eating, drinking (physical act) to me will contradict Q1926. Appreciate to hear your comments to better understand the message. Regards To which bro Tanveer replied Peace brother Phil, The word "shawm" itself only means abstinence. What exactly are we to abstain from is determined by the context. The "shawm" in 1926 is a different kind of "shawm" according to the context, than the "shawm" in 2187. Thus IMO they do not contradict while meaning abstaining from different things. Because of this, even if we take your interpretation of "shawm" as not abstaining from eating or drinking in 1926, it would still not contradict with 2187 meaning "shawm" from eating and drinking. I will appreciate comments from other members of the forum who are well versed with the Arabic language about the role of "fa" and their take on this issue. As far as I am concerned, even with your interpretation of "fa" there is still no contradiction as I explained above. Peace. =adley=
  • is fasting in "5 pillar ramadhan" shirk?

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    Salaams all, for those who still think there is a month called ramadhan - Did any of the previouse prophets in the quran recieve their messages in any special month - or did they all that is "ALL" recieve their messages in dire times or something like this? God Bless. Its Possible that They all recieved the revealation in Shahr Ramadan..
  • Historical Evidence....for An Ultra Perfect Calender System based on Quran

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    Peace be upon you Brother Ayman.. How are you Sure that the Scorching Full Moon Occurs in relation to the Summer Solstice? Cant it be a Coincidence of This Particular Centuries 19th 20th and 21st may be?? How do you know about the Scorching Red Moons that Occured in the Past.. Are there any Reliable sites which gives the Occurences in the Past? Refer To Milankovich Cycle.. Which says that We are at a Particular Time in the history where the Summer Solstice is very near the Farthest point of Sun from the Earth.. Perihelion.. Cant it be that there are some other relations for the Occurence of the Scorching Moon.. NASA Sites give many Explanations for the Scorching Moon.. Of which they are not Sure.. Regards
  • When Does The Fasting Actually Start????

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    Peace Brothers and Sisters.. This is What i found http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6458.0 Please reflect on it
  • about ramadan

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    selam i think we're supposed to fast on the same date every year so do we fast every year on the same date no matter where you are? or do we fast every year differenty depending on what side of the world you're at?
  • when do we fast?

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    Salam. We in Slovenia fast when it is the hottest month here. Australians fast when it's the hottesz month in Australia. ..... Get it? Australians can't fast at the same time as me. When i'm having the hottest month in Slovenia, i fast, Australians wait until it's their hottest month. In short, when i fast, they don't and vice versa. May The Almighty Allah Most Merciful reward you with Paradise. Salam.
  • Ramadan-Can we not drink water while fasting?

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    Peace honor, Also dont forget the verses before that... O you who believe, fasting is decreed for you as it was decreed for those before you perhaps you may be righteous. A few number of days. Whoever of you is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days; and as for those who can do so but with difficulty, they may redeem by feeding the needy. And whoever does good voluntarily, then it is better for him. And if you fast it is better for you if you knew. 2185 A month in early autumn, in which the Quran was sent down as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Therefore, whoever of you can observe the season, then let him fast therein. And whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and glorify God for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful. peace
  • What do you do if you can't fast?

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    God bless, The soup kitchen idea is a very good idea. Also remember that even if iyou can't do it immediately you are commited to fulfilling your promise to God. Godbless, anwar
  • where went the number 10?

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    Salaam Br.Ayman, To my knowledge the context theme doesn?t change it?s continuous ?see the following. 2180-188. It is decreed for you that if death should come to any of you, that it is best if he leaves a will for his family and relatives out of goodness; this is a truth for the righteous. Whoever alters it after having heard, then the sin will be upon those who alter it. God is Hearer, Knowing. If anyone fears harm or sin from his beneficiary, then reconcile what is between them. God is Forgiving, Merciful. O you who believe, fasting is decreed for you as it was decreed for those before you perhaps you may be righteous. ( Fast/Abstain) for a fixed number of (maaadootatin = 3) days. Whoever of you is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days; and as for those who can do so but with difficulty, they may redeem by feeding the needy. And whoever does good voluntarily, then it is better for him. And if you fast it is better for you if you knew. The quran was revealed when unseemly behavior was rife a guidance for mankind and clear proofs of the guidance and the criterion so whosoever is a party to such/evil amongst you he should fast and whosoever is sick or on journey (the same) number of days other wants Allah for you ease and not want for you hardship so that you complete the number and that you should magnify Allah on that he guided you so that you may give thanks. And if My servants ask you about Me, I am near answering the calls of those who call to Me. So let them respond to Me and believe in Me that they may be guided. It has been made lawful for you during the night of fasting to approach your women sexually. They are a garment for you and you are a garment for them. God knows that you used to betray your souls so He has accepted your repentance, and forgiven you; now you may approach them and seek what God has written for you. And you may ENJOY EACH OTHER AS YOU WILL until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn; then you shall complete the fast until night; and do not approach them while you are devoted in YOUR SUBMISSIONS. These are God?s boundaries, so do not transgress them. It is thus that God makes His revelations clear to the people that they may be righteous. And do not consume your money between you unjustly by bribing the decision makers so that you may consume a part of the other people?s money sinfully while you know! The general theme is about you fasting /abstaining when and if you do something that requires you to contemplate/think on your actions and avoid friction with others. Two examples FOR KILLING AN INNOCENT PERSON-two months FOR CALLING/MAKING WIFES AS MOTHERS ?two months e.t.c The term "completion" when attached to a count is always describing a count of 10 in the great reading. Give us examples of where in the quran or generally it has been used. Secondly try asking a few people what the hack is completing a count I bet no one will know what you are talking about. No body uses such lingo especially if it?s a book which is to be easy to understand. And different people have used different base numbers , 10 came from the hindues to the arabs - i am not sure if it was after islam or before though, other bases used -8, 12, 56 e.t.c I do respect very much your findings on the whole but here I think you are trying to keep an existing melodrama going rather then looking at what the sura as a whole is saying. God Bless you.
  • When do we stop talking?

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    Talk fasting? Then why would Allah exempt the sick and the travellers and not the teachers? Also exempt are those who can do it but with difficulty. Who are they? The talkative or the teachers? Does it mean we should not communicte with each othe for a whole month? How lucky are the mute!! Can we still post on free-minds? The sick and the travelers were people in critical situations and teachers didn't exist then but saying that when people do do wrong try to cheat and are cought there jobs arn't that important i think but purifying themselves to try and make themselves more righteous so it won't happen again is more important. Remember they didn't have any types of money coming in then like we have now a days unemployment benefits.... so those who can't manage , well........ there isn't a month , if there was a month someone forgot to mention the other 11 months. try http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4421.0 God Bless.
  • Does fasting mean no eating?

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    Salam NP Fasting during periods depend on the individual. Some many do not have any difficulty doing so, some do. As for fear of losing much blood, physiologically the blood you loose is diluted. Have you noticed that your body swell a few days before the periods? This is because the body retain much water so that when you have the period, or become pregnant, as little blood cells as possible are lost (period or delivery), with a lot of water. Moreover, this blood was kept there to feed the "baby" , so it is not all directly from your vessels.
  • Whats the Consensus on the Calendar ?

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    Peace, Here is the issue as I see it. The Quran is not outdated but we have been looking at this all wrong. The Quran used words like Ramadaan, Kaabah, Mecca and Bakka and Holy months being ma'loomat, and ahillat knowing that the Arabs at the time or those focused on their practices could either choose the universal application of the Quran or not. The Quran says that it also leads astray but it only leads astray those who have wrong in their hearts. It would seem that most of the Arabs of Muhammad's day, or atleast the ones that won out, had wrong in their hearts so they opted for the meanings of words like Makkah and Kaabah that confirmed their established Arab traditions. But this was wrong. In accordance with the Old Arabic language that the Quran is written in Ramadaan = A season or lasting time of Heat shah-r = Literally all the periods of time that it might take from one new moon to the next. It literally is a standard of time based off of a lunation which can vary from 29.27 to about 29.83 days. This calculation takes into account 24 hour days and not sightings of the moon based on days that start from sundown to sundown like the jewish day or sunrise to sunrise like the Quranic day. In which case if the moon was sited during the day time on the 29.27th day the next day wouldn't start until sundown making the month 30 days. So depending on where this 29.27 to 29.83 days cycle ends (and was cited) an old-school Arabic shahr could have been 29 or 30 days. The Quran prefers the 30 day opinion, when it equates missing a day's fast with feeding a needy person and mising 2 months of fast with feeding 60 people. 584 and 2184 "And an acceptable substitute for those who are able to rough through a daily-fast is the feeding of someone in need." Ka'bat = true honor/glory Makkat= true destruction Bakkat= High rank, a cut above the rest, distinguished, crowding Ahillat= Things that are selected to be consecrated. from haleel, from maa uhilla bihi (2174). Ma'loomat= tu'lamu= "is to be (should be) dinstinguished, well known, discerned" So if we put all the pieces together we don't need the old Arabic calendar. Because during the hot seasons in any place that we may be we are to fast for 30 days. "God, with true glory(al-ka'bata), will make (the)sacred houses ((the)sanctuaries Al-baitul-haraamu) an upliftment for mankind" 597 "They will ask you about the consecrations (ahillatun, from haleel, from maa uhilla bihi 2174) The consecrations are to be timed for the people and not at random during the Hajj, and instead of that whole entering through the back doors thing that verse can be understood as 'By the pilgrimage! Righteousness isn't entering the houses of God just to make your appearences there(bi'an ta'too al-buyoota bidhuhoorihaa). The righteous individual is the one who is worried about his well-being (attaqaa). So go through the doors of these houses (al-buyoota) and worry about God so that you can succeed." 2189 "The season(s) of pilgrimage should be (are to be) months that will (are to) be well-known, distinguished, discernable" 2197 That means we can chose them, and that we should make them clear and widely known. "The count of (30 day) months as far as God is concerned is to be 12 (no more no less). This was his decree the day he made the heavens and the earth. Four of them should be (are to be) sacred, and that will be (is to be) how it stands. (the standing order/rule)." 936 In a year there are 365 days which means 12.16 or 12 months and 1/6 of a month. But the Quran established the counting in UNITS. When you count in Units for instance if your going through the units of a book and you are half way through Unit 11 and I ask you "what unit are you in in the book?" Your going to say Unit 11, because I set the measurement in Units, even if the book has chapters and sections. There can be 12 months and 6 days in a year, but if I ask you how many months are in this year, what will your answer be? 12. That is why 5 extra days don't matter. We would love for the world to be even in everything but that is not how it is. And honestly why should it matter? "And when you are fully vulnerable (bi batni makkata(literally "in the belly of perdition/destruction)), it is God who would hold your forces (yadhand,support,power, backing) back from them and their forces back from you, discounting (min ba'da an, in its sense of ibti&aadan an) the possiblity (or on top of the possibility) that he may empower you so that you can defeat them." 4824 (There are times when both sides in times of struggle are on edge and damages may be fatal to both sides, but it is God through his book (and us following his decrees) and through his divine will that maintains those tentative times of peace that we may need and appreciate) Taking all this into account the Arabs could have understood Makkah as the city of Makkah and The Ka'bah as the Holy shrine in Mecca. They could have, with reason, kept the traditional months of pilgrimage as they were widely known. (which unkoranically they preferred to understand as literal lunations, and not its other meanings as periods of 29 days or periods of 30 days) And they could have grammatically and through their unkoranic understanding continued to understand ahillat as moon phases. But with linguistic analysis and analyzing the Quran they didn't have to. The Arabs of that time had all of the tools to understand the Quran right if they would have analyzed the Quran more. As well as those who learned Classical Arabic later and paid more attention to Christian, Jewish, or traditional Pre-Quranic Arab trends of thought. As well as the Rumorous literature of the Hadeeth. I'm sure some Arabs had it right on, but the righteous are always few, amongst all people. In addition to that speakers of languages are often tricked by their own language, often not recognizing the subtle differences that 1 word can have depending on the context, or the different meanings a word can take on. You can easily take a word like 'light' in english and use it in a way that would confuse the native and make him confront the fact that he has become accustomed to using one word in a number of different ways, all of which he was not fully-conscious of. That is why the dictionaries like lisaanul-Arab and others, as insightful as they might be are limited by the analytical potential of their authors. Arabs have traditionally used the word shah-r to refer to the period between one hilaal(new crescent) and the other, but have always just associated it with the new moon. Like an english speaker might not realize that a month can also be 28 or 29 or 31 days, because he usually associates it with the average 30. Or he may not realize other subtleties because he usually thinks of the word in the context of the names April, may or june. Most times he automically assumes all of the meanings and then deduces later as he learns more from the context of the conversations. But over all despite the mistakes of our forefathers we now have the correct understanding which we see frees takes alot of burden off of us. Godlbess, Anwar I still would like it if anyone could come up with examples were the evocative 'a' in bakkata and makkata can over-ride prepositions like 'bi, fee' or possession constructions (al-idaafat)
  • Month of Moon of Ramadan?????

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    The same grammatical rules that I used to justify that Makkah is not a city in the Quran and that bakkah is not a city either, definitely allows that ramadaan is not the Arab month that we are all used to. It follows the same form as nasayaan and shana'aan(in th Quran) that implies an intensive or during action. So Ramadaan does means 'intense heat, or lasting heat' and 'shah-r' being a month or a period oof 30 days definitely allows us to interpret our fasting in the Quran to be during a month of intense or lasting heat, and it was such a month in which the Quran was revealed. With that said, now comes the issue of the pilgrimage. Analyzes Ahillat is a broket plural which can be for alot of different forms 'fa'eel, fi'aal, etc' I only have a couple examples in mind 'hilaal and wareedat'. With that said haleel could also be the singular of ahillat. Hilaal can also me the equavalent of muhaallat (form III). However, I have never seen the verbal noun of the 3rd form put into a broken plural. I have never seen any verbal nound put into a broken plural. So if anyone can find examples of this, as well as the evocative 'an' overpowering the possessive and propostion cases (jarr) I would appreciate that. I will be able to give my arguments more backing and can open us up to the more realistic and universal application of the Quran. The next step is finding out which months should be the 4 months of pilgrimage, or if we are allowed to come to a consensus on them on our own. Godbless, Anwar