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Pilgrimage (Hajj)

A more involved look would show the benefits to this event as well as the specific steps.

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185 Topics 3.1k Posts
  • Dear Layth and Other More Knowledgeble Facers of Jerusalem:

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    WakasW
    Layth says himself that 2142-143 talks about a change in focal point. What is this change? After all, 2144 mentions a physical change and you state that for a while Muhammad's followers faced Mecca but then they were redirected back to Jerusalem. Please can you explain this section of Layth's article in more detail. As far as I'm aware, this has been discussed in significant detail, here are some threads/posts http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=11155.msg71983#msg71983 http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=15074.0 http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12683.msg102290#msg102290 http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8014.msg30297#msg30297 http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7631.msg10884#msg10884 I strongly recommend using the search function of the forum.
  • The Great kaaba and Abraham.

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    Br Bigmo, On the contrary however the Quran makes it clear that many of the extra-biblical Jewish traditions preserved in the Midrashim, Talmuds, Mishna etc. contain truth. How can that be the truth? When these stories don?t correlate with reality? Such a great man lies and the fire doesn?t burn him???? With the same methodology one could argue that the ritual prayer is practiced by Zoroastrians and the Muslims or that it is in their books, so it is authentic. http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8250.0 The quran is about peoples actions it prohibits people causing harm. It doesn?t compel people not to adore statues. Example. A person could wake up at 12 o clock at night to admire his wheat field every night ? no harm- so he isn?t compelled by anyone not to do this. A person may pray to his God to look after his wheat field and another person may ask his statue to look after his wheat field ? is there a difference, not that I can see Br. We are to seek by research of the methodology of the supreme being/ nature/God/ life force or what ever is causing the growth of the wheat field and apply that to get His assistance Right? Just my thoughts and may be you right though! Peace.
  • Umrah

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    The only people who could have seen "waves beneath waves", not "ships sailing the sea" are drowned. Same for the descriptions of hell & heaven. Those parables definitely can exist and could exist, the question is whether the Arabs observed them, as opposed to knowing about their possible existence.
  • Abrahams BAIT ?

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    Peace, Well why not!? I decide what I want to do no one else can do that for me. Maria
  • Mohammed journey to Aqsa

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    bravo
  • Another Question for Quranists ?

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    We understand the word "Hajj" to mean debate. The verb form of the word is "Yahujju or hajja" , which means to debate or discuss. Read the following Say "Do you debate with us regarding God? He is our Lord and your Lord, and we have our work and you have your work, and to Him we are believers." If they debate with you, then say "I have submitted myself to God, as well as those who follow me." And say to those who have received the Scripture and the Gentiles "Have you submitted?" If they have submitted then they are guided, and if they turn away, then you are only to deliver, and God is watcher over the servants. I personally do beleive in a physical journey, ( are you happy now? ) where people gather in a large congregation, once a year ,during a three-month season ( the Quran states as clearly as the sun that it is done throughout a period of MONTHS - see - and never says that a million people have to be in one spot at the same time. (evidence in the Quran seems to indicate that it was done in successive groups. First group comes, conducts their business, and leaves, making room for the next...and so on and so forth, for the whole season. I will post the verses later if they are needed). As for the purpose of this congregation, God says, as clearly as the sun, that it is to benefit people. Mindless rituals, such as spining around a cloth-covered cubical structure, or jogging back and forth between two hills, or throwing pebbles at a stone pillar representing Satan (and splitting other people's skulls in the process) or kissing a black stone (and trampling others to reach it) are of zero benefit to mankind. And even if you debate with me from now until the end of time and try to convince me otherwise, I will not accept it. So, what is of benefit to the people? If we remember that the Patriarch Abraham was also a leader of men ,politically as well as in religious guidance, ( God says in the Quran that Abraham was made a leader and a guide to mankind), and set up the first house, in Bakka (which is NOT Mecca, with all due respect to your beliefs), where people could come to him from all the corners of the land, we can conclude the following 1- Discuss important political issues that are of benefit to the society (discuss them where the leader is present). 2- Feed the poor. 3- Trade 4- Pay taxes to the State. 5- Frequently remember God ALONE, without partners, for the fortunes that He has granted them. As for the word "Tawwaf" it does NOT mean to circumbulate, with all due respect to your beliefs. It means to visit / frequent a place / stay in one place for a certain period of time. As in They will be visited/frequented with (servants bearing) cups of pure drinks. I din't think it means they will be circumbulated by the cups. Therefore, the people can make this journey, and visit the place, and do all of the above. But today, the single "Islamic" (though I hate using that word in Arabic, it will have to do for now) State no longer exists. Therefore, the First Bayt (in the physical sense) that was established by Abraham has nothing but a historic value. There is no reason why we can't have another agreed upon place, (or even many such places), for the same purpose. Think of it as the center of a modern and model state, that lives by the system of God; a kind of House where all people can gather. This is my own personal view, and it know it doesn't represent what other members think. There are many on this site who would say the the "Bayt" has only a figuritive meaning, and not a physical one. I believe it has BOTH. But that does not mean that we go about "Holyfying" buildings and black stones. Nothing , no one other than God desrevs the title of "Holy". Peace.
  • Aidid Safar on Hajj Verse 22:25~30

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    Salam, Is there any Aidid Safar supporters or Aidid safar himself to clear up, why these verses are translated in that way? salam
  • 2:125

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    We've all been there; its a step-by-step, evolutionary process. It really is, just need to erase everything I've ever known and approach the quran with a clean slate/open mind.
  • What the Bait might be.

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    What is maaser? by Rabbi Mendy Hecht A. Maaser means ?a tenth.? It?s based on the Hebrew word eser (pronounced EH-sehr), or ten. As a rule, it refers to donating ten percent of whatever to whomever. While maaser may seem like a lot of giving, it?s actually all about receiving. Just like sacrifices, which primarily benefit those who bring them, giving maaser whips you into spiritual shape by forcing you to extend yourself. B. The original concept of maaser is Torah-based. There we find several Mitzvot requiring Farmer Jew to give a tenth Positive Mitzvah #78 Maaser Behema (the Livestock Maaser) All Kosher cattle were tithed, and one tenth of the animals were brought to Jerusalem and offered as a sacrifice in the Holy Temple. The flesh of these animals was consumed within the confines of Jerusalem by the owners and their guests. Positive Mitzvah #127 Maaser Rishon (the First Maaser) One tenth of a farmer's produce was given to the Levite. Historically, the Levites served as the spiritual leaders of the Jews and therefore did not have their own portion of land in Israel. This Maaser was the basic livelihood of the average Levite. Positive Mitzvah #128 Maaser Sheni (the Second Maaser) Jewish agriculture followed a seven year cycle -- with the farming observing the Sabbatical every seventh year. On the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th year of this cycle, after separating the First Maaser, a second tithe was taken from the remaining crop. This produce was taken to Jerusalem and eaten there. Positive Mitzvah #130 Maaser Ani (the Poor Man?s Maaser) On the 3rd and 6th year of the aforementioned cycle, the second tithe was given to the poor, who ate (or sold) it wherever they wished. C. Additionaly, every person is obligated to give a tenth of his earnings to charity.1 We already find this custom by our patriarchs. Before Jacob went to his uncle Laban he pledged to G-d that "everything that You give me, I will surely tithe to You." How do I give maaser? Be specific Depends on which type you?re talking about. Firstly, all except the "income maaser" are only obligatory in the Holy Land. And many of their laws apply only when the Beit Hamikdash stands ? which means, when Moshiach comes. Deductions Income maaser is given from all gross income and monetary gifts which a person earns or receives. There are certain deductions and credits -- such us tuition costs -- speak to a rabbi to find out if you are eligible. Similarly, if you are in a financial predicament, a rabbi should be consulted to find out what your obligations are.
  • Qiblah

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    mustaqbilun - proceeding towards, heading towards. Kullu maa yustaqbalu is related to the above form of the word. (it is the active passive present tense verb). That means that a qiblah is also 'that which one proceeds towards or heads towards' This is the reason why I have used a place of convening. Godbless, Anwar
  • Hajja...., Bait....., Sacrifice.....and all.

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    Salaams All, One who loves righteousness = Abraham, is made from Barra (example 2177) and Hamma. Ishmael is a combination of sami a Allah = who heard Allah. 004.164 YUSUFALI ???and to Moses Allah spoke direct;- 002.253 YUSUFALI ???to one of them Allah spoke?? Isma-il = who heard Allah = Moses. Abraham refuses the slaughtering of his son. http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7503.15 And saves Him. http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14136.0 What is Bait = it?s a group of people related, somehow to one another ? a party. http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13255.msg110792#msg110792 so Abraham (225 and Moses (2836) both argued/ debated the rights of people, the Israelites and people in general to/with Pharaoh. Moses was Ishmael which is a quality of an individual. Let?s see which other people set up parties for the right to vie with one another- like Abraham and Moses. Gandhi, Qaid-e-azam, Leningrad shipyard workers, Nelson Mandela e.t.c it?s a strange thing when people keep taking abuse like did the Israelites for 40 years after Moses left them. http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13498.msg113938#msg113938 Even Hitler got the better of them and they got slaughtered like cattle. People have to stand up and be counted but peaceably unless it?s to protect oneself as in a war. So peaceful confrontation to vie with one another to remove the unrighteous matters from communities is what was started by Abraham and Moses. Look and see around the world ? see where such things are welcomed and if they benefit. Gods Blessings. Peace all What is eid al adha why? slaughtering millions animal and westing billions of money is this practice correct when we dont fined any poor in our Neighbore to feed them in my openion it is just a waste of money and wast eof animals. comments please peace
  • Maqam Ibrahim

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    WakasW
    peace, What is your opinion? My opinion is you should re-consider your translation. Please do a forum search on the verses you referenced.
  • PILGRIMAGE AS IT SHOULD BE

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    Salaam Dear Anwer, I was not ignoring your points, I just recognised a similarity of thinking with Samia which I responded too. I have not had time to investigate your points correctly. I hope to have some time this weekend inshAllah.
  • Locked up in a stone cage or under key and lock! all the year around.

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    Salam, I have wonder that too!!!! hidden things seems to be popular. Sis Majidah
  • Hajj banning for 17 years?

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    Salam I found different historical sources about Qarmatians. Perhaps the most interesting, in english, are these http//www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12799 http//www.ismaili.net/histoire/history05/history509.html The last link refers to an ismaelian site. I thought it was interesting to have different (not so much, in fact) "reports" ;D I don't remember much of this sect ; although they had a strong link with the fatimides in Tunisia, we (in Tunisia) did not have much material in the courses of history in the secondary school (a way to ward off sad "souvenirs"?? > ) the only thing I recall is that they destroyed Mecca, killed thousands there, stole the black stone and that the Hajj was "stopped" (or postponed?) for 8 to 22 years according to historians. Thank you for your question it made me find some interesting facts about the history of my own country (especially concerning the fatimide calife) Peace
  • What Do You See On This Picture?????

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    I see a robot....tis is making me a bit anxcious, what was i supposed to see? confused
  • MY DREAM.........

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    Peace Sara I pray that you and all muslimeen are allowed guidance from Allah. Ameen ANYTHING SPECIAL U WANT ME TO SAY TO OUR HABEEB MUHAMMAD SALLA ALLAHU ALYHI WA SALAM??? Please don't tell him anything as he can't hear you sis. He's been deceased for over 1000 years. Pray to God Peace to you sister, enjoy your vacation
  • The pilgrimage, when should it be

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    Truth, You make alot of assumptions that are based on your lack of understanding Arabic words. You can point to all the translations that you want to, and you can continue to believe that these prove your point and disprove mine. But until you can actually discuss the meanings of the Arabic words there you are at a loss and I am powerless to help you understand what these words mean if you don't believe me and are going to stick to your pre-concieved notions based on the opinion of a translator, whose opinion is based on traditional opinions that have not analyzed the words of these verses and all that they can mean, but just like the word Salat have pidgeon-holed its meaning into what their traditional views. So again, you have the right to think that my theory has collapsed but understand that you are not at the level to understand what I'm saying, More importantly you are not willing to. Until you are ready to understand the concepts of divorce and marriage in a Non-Islamic, Non-Western Pre-Islamic linguistic point of view I can't help you. Think what you want. I honestly don't care if people who don't want to learn, don't. You say you wanna have civil conversation but when you are too ignorant (knowledge-wise) to have this conversation and to arrogant to recognize that, how can the conversation stay civil? So please, you have the right to believe in your contextual abstention and I have the right to believe in the concept of a Quranic abstention being defined in 2187. Whenever you insist on your form of contextual abstention just be prepared for me to offer an alternative. I actually understand your position, but I disagree with it. However, on your side, you actually don't understand my position, because you can't understand my position unless you agree on the definitions that I give you for these words. You don't agree, because you don't trust that i am being true to the dictionaries or you don't trust the dictionaries. So, you believe as you want to and I will believe as I do, lakum deenukum wa liya deenee. I won't argue this topic anymore with you. But I will state that I disgree with you and to whoevever wants to know why I will explain that to them. But our exchange on this topic is done, mainly because you refuse to accept the definitions of the key words of these passages. I will requote what you said that embodies this refusal The context makes it precise and clear. No dictionary is going to over-ride the clarity of that verse. . .Which other dictionary are you going to pull out from your bunny warren to argue against the meaning the reading is PLAINLY defining 'zihar' with? What is ridiculous is that you believe that a dictionary can contradict a verse whose words it only defines. I know I used the word ridiculous here and I know you probably are blowing up right now and reacting to this word. Forgive me for using it as it is the only word that I see fit here. It is not to ridicule you. So again, I think we can just call it even now. I really don't want to discuss this with you anymore. If I refer to any of your comments I will refer to you in the third person, and I will focus on your comments, as much as I can to not have to deal with discussing this with you. Thank you. Godbless, Anwar
  • Re: New Article - Pilgrimage

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    LaythL
    Peace, The fatal flaw in this discussion is the translation of "nas" as mankind. Nas is people. When the God mentions mankind the collective noun "insan" is used. Every verse in the reading bears this out. The "pilgrimage" to the sanctioned house is not something enjoined on "mankind". And the difference between humankind and people is?
  • Where Do You Believe Hajj Is?

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    The Hajj is to Holy Sanctuaries that we build in the name of God for them to be central points of the Quranic community. The location doesn't matter, as long as they are built in the name of God. We are to tak the example of Abraham in this. As for when. I have a hunch for 3 months during winter and spring. Meanings starting from the winter solstice and lasting for 3 months. I think that surah 106 will be the proof for this decision once I find a suitable alternative translation for quraish, which can be the Quraish but which should also have a more universal meaning. It is is the duminutive of qarash or qarsh. Godbless, Anwar