Pilgrimage (Hajj)

I have the book, and it seems fine a match to me. Feel free to read it........ if you choose. i will.

Salaaman, Interesting videos. Thanks for the link. Peace You are welcome bro. May Allah guide us all towards the correct path. Mohammed M. Khan

Salaaman bro Afridi... Hey, I am in India now... I don't have any problem accessing any site Mohammed M. Khan

peace brother Ayman, As you may recall, you and I discussed that term before, and that is still my view, however, my recent studies have suggested that it may refer to "chiefs", i.e. leader of a group. The latter sequence of events in AQ seem to describe the coming together of a confederation of sorts.

Did you read all of it to make the judgement you made on it? Yes I went through and analysed it, and commented only after that.

Peace Riz Thanks for your input. It was just something I heard & I guess it doesn't any basis to serve as evidence that the concept of Adam represents a group / community of people. However, I don't view Adam & Eve as individuals regardless of this. It just doesn't make sense to me. There are also hints in AQ that they were not individuals, especially when the concepts of Iblees, Jinn & Shaytaan are viewed from a more rational perspective than something out there that we can blame all our faults on. Imraan

You forgot some the earth and its 12 months, my analogue watch with 12 numbers, my foot with size 12 shoe, a carrot cake my dad made today with its 12 slices. I think you could be onto something. Can you explain how your observation helps in any way to contribute to the discussion of Quranic hajj, since you posted it in this section? Thanks.

You mean God is not British? wow rotfl rotfl Of course not! thats why Arabs swear in English so God can't understand rotfl That was Wakas fault for showing me some youtube stuff -\

Salam to all. Maybe we can share this website below (just for further reading - some related to anything in Mecca, rituals etc.). http//www.aididsafar.com http//www.aididsafar.com/shaivite.html http//religionresearchinstitute.org/mecca/construction.htm http//www.aididsafar.com/shegod.html Can download the book "Mental Bondage in the name of Islam".

Salam to all. What is so special about Kaaba? Maybe we can share this website below (just for further reading - some related to anything in Mecca, rituals etc.). http//www.aididsafar.com http//www.aididsafar.com/shaivite.html http//religionresearchinstitute.org/mecca/construction.htm http//www.aididsafar.com/shegod.html Can download the book "Mental Bondage in the name of Islam".

Salam to all. Maybe we can share this website below (just for further reading - some related to anything in Mecca, rituals etc.). http//www.aididsafar.com http//www.aididsafar.com/shaivite.html http//religionresearchinstitute.org/mecca/construction.htm http//www.aididsafar.com/shegod.html Can download the book "Mental Bondage in the name of Islam".

peace, have you seen the youtube video, illuminated-kabbalah,kabbAlah get it?...interesting video. i don't know how to give you the link, just go to youtube.com and search it...with peace

peace Roshan, I previously said "Further, such events are held in a centralised location, hence the travelling to such a location." Thus, I have no problem with travelling to a location or al-HJJ itself. There is no HJJ to al bayt in this verse or any verse. If you are implying one specific location only, then yes I have a problem with that as I cannot see any evidence for this in AQ. 396 itself says "first" house/bayt, implying not the only one, and this can be further shown in AQ, e.g. 1087 etc.

Salaam Bigmo Verse 2234 - And for every nation have We appointed a ritual, that they may mention the name of Allah over the beast of cattle that He has given them for food and your God is One God, therefore surrender unto Him. And give good tidings to the humble. - This verse together with verse 2236 tells the believers to mention the name of God over the cattle when it will be slaughtered. This is the rite prescribed in verse 2234, there is no mentioning of the -hajj- as a rite. Verse 2228 states that this rite of mentioning the name of God on the cattle was a part of the Islamic -hajj- that happened during the life-time of the -rasool-. This does not make the -hajj- itself the rite - only the way of slaughtering is the appointed rite, that still can be done in the period after the living -rasool- without an Islamic -hajj-. Haj is a pilrimage and rite but its one among many for mankind. Its not the how or when thats important but to whom you are doing them for and why. I agree with you that it is important to realise to whom the -hajj- is done and why. The Koran is unambiguous in this matter. Verse 2227 - And proclaim that the people shall observe -el hajj-. They will come to you ... - The word you indicates that the -hajj- is about to come to a person - the living -rasool-. There seems not to be a single Koranic verse that overrules verse 2227. That is a logical matter since the Koran has no contradictions. - 482. truthseeker171

4824 is clearly addressing the prophet while he was in Mecca so i dont see any reason to doubt his physical location. whether he was in another place outside of mecca or saudi has no relevance or significance as far as religion is concerned.

I'm a big fan of Robert Eiseman. Not sure if I agree with him on everything, but he embodies a willingness to reexamine tradition that impresses me.

it's very easy to avoid answering when one is short of arguments and start quoting verses from the quran that are completly irrelevant to the topic. you remind me of a sister back in "hot" Ramadan Topic. i almost tought she had a beard. What you are claiming to be proofs are NOT. it's just a poor copy/paste of what any 8 years old sunni child will tell you when asked about those inherited dogmatic faiths. The difference between you and this 8 years old sunni child is that he is not telling you to go to youtube to confirm those "proofs". Salam Again Ad Hominem and Name Calling. Why would I go to YouTube to confirm the videos I created? You didn't check the side-bars to see who created the videos, did you. (Statement, not a question.) Until you are ready to provide proofs of your claims, or give proofs that refute what I have posted, I have no time for people who take their deen as a mockery or a joke. Name calling is childish and portrays lack of maturity and/or understanding. This conversation is over. "O you who believe! do not take for guardians those who take your religion for a mockery and a joke, from among those who were given the Book before you and the unbelievers; and be careful of Allah if you are believers." Surah 557 "That is because they say to those who hate what Allah has revealed We will obey you in some of the affairs; and Allah knows their secrets." Surah 4726 Pray for guidance. Surah 245 Peace.

Peace Nun, No problem... 785 And to Madya/an, (We sent) their brother Shu'aib 788 The chiefs of those who were arrogant among his people said "We shall certainly drive you out, O Shu'aib, and those who have believed with you from our community (Qaryatin&#257 or else you shall return to our religion." He said "Even though we hate it!?" 26176 Abu Al-'Aykati -- Dwellers of The Thicket 26177 When Shu'aib said to them "are you not mindful? Al-Madnati -- The City/Town http//www.openburhan.net/ob_w.php?w=21125 1882 And as for the wall, so it was to two boys, two orphans in the city (Al-Madnati) Exactly, farming communities who tend to crops and fruit trees are not nomadic. So "eight" feasts will depend on how many harvest feasts they had in a year. If they had 1 then it is 8 years. If they had 2 then it is 4 years. Most communities have 1-2 harvest feasts per year. They typically have a harvest feast in mid summer to celebrate first fruits and then another one in early fall at the end of the growing season. Those feasts coincide with the full-moons. The early fall one is the main one. My understanding from the great reading is that there are three opportunities to have the feast on the three full-moons from mid-summer to early fall. Communites can select which one or more of these to have their harvest feast on. Peace, Ayman

Peace, @1CELOSTNOWFOUND (um, d'you have a shorter nickname? ) Thank you for sharing that. I'm currently observing SalaAt and all concepts related (ruku`, sujud, masjid, Haram, qibla, ...), and while i still have to put it all in a more presentable form, i'm kind of surprised (in a good way) that these are all beginning to fit into a concept already very natural to us... bayt itself, as you said = Ba-Ya-Ta by/in/at night (excluding sleep), entered upon or passed the night tent, house, home Thinking about something and its end result Concealed or conceived something in the mind A structure of clay or any structure signifying a habitation, an abode or dwelling. Buildings, uninhabited houses, shops, ruins, bazaars, places where the entering is allowed by the owners. Ark of Noah, Mosques, places of worship, Kaabeh or Jerusalem A grave Household or family Nobility Sudden attack in the night or a surprise attack in the night Remaining through the night (e.g. bread or water that stays out and becomes stale) What makes a family/household? Could it be spending the night together before going to sleep? Where would the family (group of people) spend the night together? The concept of bayt is not just the place, nor it is just the people, nor it is just the activity of spending the night. A more whole understanding would be that b-y-t is an event where/when a group of people, like a family, spending the night together, in a place made open to them. The next question would be what are they doing (i.e. what is their activity) when they spend the night together in a place? I think it might be very (if not directly) related to SalaAt `ishaa', the evening/night SalaAt, and the concept of rukka'an (humbly) sujjadan with each other, in the process of establishing the Dyn and ultimately to remember The God and to remain attached to Him (r-H-m comes to mind--or heart? ). This is one verse where most of those fit into one 1087 And We inspired to Moses and his brother, "tabawwa your people with/by miSra buytan and make your buyt qiblatan and aqm AlSalat and give good news to the believers." tabawwa'a vb. (5) impv = Ba-Waw-Alif = returned, went/came back, he bore or took upon himself, became ladened/burdened, became the abiding-place thereof, became answerable/accountable/responsible, equal/alike, a match, rested/remained, lodged him in an abode, mubawwa a dwelling, place of lodging, settlement, tabawwa to take or make as one's dwelling. = Miim-Sad-Ra (e.g. misra, maseeru) = he made it (namely a town) a limit/boundary between two things, partition, barrier, limit, great town, Egypt. note "Egypt" makes the least sense. personally i'd choose "boundary" Buyt (plural) was/were the qiblat for Moses and his people. Our qiblat is "masjid AlHaram". Please also compare the number of people in Moses' society/community to the number of people in our time. For now, see "qiblat" not as a "physical direction", as "masjid AlHaram" -- which we are to face anywhere we are -- may not be something physical at all. It is related, i think, to another concept which is, again, very natural to humanity and just feel right at home, like "those who were given the Scripture would know it like they know their children". Insha Allah we can work together on this. Any humble feedback is really welcome. Rukka`an sujjadan... Peace.

320 and when they argue with thee, say i have surrendered my face to allah and those who follow me Islam is all about surrendering mentally and physically to allah. Allah is all encompassing so all physical and mental realities prostrate to allah. 4125 And who can be better in religion than one who submits his face to allah and he is a good doer and follows the religion of abraham the upright and allah did take abraham as a friend 4126 And to Allah belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth and allah is ever encompassing all things 919 do you consider the providing of drinking water to pilgrims and the maintenance of the sacred mosque as equal to the worth of those who believe in allah and the last day. and fight (physically and mentally) in the cause of allah? they are not equal before allah and allah guides not those people who are the cruel ones.