Pilgrimage (Hajj)

peace you monotheist and reformist always disrespecting mecca and the Kabba. Read this from the words of Jesus. JOHN 419-21 19 ?Sir,? the woman said, ?I can see that you are a prophet. 20 Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.? 21 ?Woman,? Jesus replied, ?believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem So if not in jerusalem then where? A Muslim would say Mecca, but you reformist and monotheist, where do you say God should be worshiped? The Kaaba in Mecca is geographically posotined by the golden ratio or what some scientist call the fingerprint of God. Check this video. http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD2323zkQUM

...only just realised it's something I've never really thought about. I always just assumed it was for hygienic reasons, preventing the spread of head lice and such. In a lot of countries joining the army requires you to shave your head for this very reason.

Salaam 919 Have you made the watering of the pilgrim (HAJJ) and the "IMARA" of the Restricted Temple the same as one who believes in God and the Last Day and he strives in the cause of God? They are not the same with God. And God does not guide the wicked people. so HAJJ and IMARA occurs at the same time and are not equal. The Hajj is striving in name of GOD. 2158 Indeed, the stone and the rock outcropping are among the symbols of God. So whoever makes HAJJ to the Sanctuary, or IIATAMARA , commits no error should he traverse them. And whoever donates for goodness, then God is Thankful, Kn HAJJ and IITIMAR are again opposed and put in the same context of Hajj "feast" 918 Rather, YAAMOUROU the temples of God who are believers in God and the Last Day, and he upholds the contact prayer, and he contributes towards purification, and is only concerned by God. It is these that will be of the guided ones. YAAMOUROU is here with the sense of Filling. Notice also that IMARA means in arabic a building construction (to be filled with humans). 2196 And complete the HAJJ and OMRA for God. If you are prevented, then simply provide what offering is affordable; and do not shave your heads until the offering reaches its destination. Whoever of you is ill or has an affliction to his head, then he may redeem by fasting or giving a charity or a rite. If you are secure, then whoever goes to visit, but WHO BENEFICIATE FROM OMRA TO HAJJ, he shall provide what offering is affordable; but for he who cannot find anything, then he must fast for three days during the Pilgrimage and seven when he returns; this will make a complete ten; this is for those whose family is not resident at the Restricted Temple. And be aware of God, and know that God is severe in retribution. Notice the expression OMRA TO THE HAJJ. Wich means, for me, simple presence to the HAJJ for other reason than debating (buying food or drink for example) And notice also that, again who is making HAJJ is not equal to who is making OMRA and have to make gifts or Siyyam. Notice also the use of word Nass in place of word believers or muslims in verses (22-27 and 2-125). So People who are in the Hajj feast are not only muslims. HAJJ is occasion to teach islam and respond to disbelievers arguments notice the clarity of using the verb Hajj in these verse 4216 And those who debate (YOUHAJJOUN) about God, after they had been answered, their argument is nullified at their Lord. They have incurred a wrath, and will have a severe retribution. 4525 And when Our clear revelations are recited to them, their only argument "HOJJA" is to say ?Then bring back our forefathers, if you are truthful.? 680 And his people debated (HAJJAHOU) with him. He said "Do you debate (TOHAJJOUJANI) with me regarding God, when He has guided me? I do not fear that which you have set up except if my Lord wills; my Lord encompasses all things in knowledge; will you not remember?" So HAJJ is clearly debating and arguig during a religious feast. Nowadays, hojjaj is still used in debating and in tribunals to mean proofs. I think that the better dictionnay for understanding meaning of arabic words in quran is quran itself. For the word hajj, quran dictionnary is clear. Peace

Exactly. This is why when people say haj is a pagan ritual, its on so if its gods and idols they are doing it for. Ritauls are common forms of worship, the question here is to whom the worship is directed to. Since Haj was always a Meccan form of ritual, there was always going to be the problem that other cities will create their own haj, after all people pray in different cities and fast in different cities so why all do haj in Mecca only? This is why the Sunni authorities led by the Meccan dynasty had to make Haj in Mecca an obligation and one of the pillars of Islam and created many stories like Adam or Abraham or Hagar as being there to give it significance and exclusivity. We know that during the Ummayid dynasty a rival Kaba was created. Not that Abraham was there or not, he could have bene there or not. But many prophets never had haj in Mecca like Moses, like Jesus or Lot or Job or Saleh. So how can it be an obligation? We can say its a Muhamedan tradition but that does not make it an obligation. But you are absolutely correct, as long as the Meccans perform these rituals to God and not the Meccan idols, then its a valid form of worship. Selam Bigmo , I thought that hajj was actually a feast (as discussed by Ayman) and it is for any people who wish to witness benefits of such feast. Bigmo are you agreeing that going round a black stone 7 times for exclusively "Muslims" is a valid form of worship as long as they devote it to God? Apologies if this is not what you meant.. However I am in a disagreement with this... If the Quran mentions no such thing about circling a black stone and no such thing about segregating Muslims to non-Muslims then why should I participate? Certain dress codes, you have to kiss it and if not then point... I am not seeing the Godly devotion of this but for people to more wish for an intercession .... I'm in disagreement with the ritual... Peace peace

peace be with you guys as well, Thank you for sharing, May God Almighty make all things clear and understandable to us.

Peace All, On this issue, I think we should remind ourselves that God points out that the Koran has many allegories. We know from the History books that Abraham apparently did not make it to the land where the Kabbah stands. Therefore, using our intelligence, as God tells us to, Abraham could not have erected a physical 'bayt'. The 'bayt' must therefore be metaphorical. My Arabic is not good enough to analyse the word linguistically. Dawn.

Peace, If we look at all the roots in Quran, it gives us an idea of the common thread that runs through all of them. I have just started looking at these and I was wondering if anybody has done a similar study or knows of a similar study and could provide a link to such a study that may help in my research. In fact, there may even be a link to all roots in Quran that have as the middle letter of the tri-literal root. Any input on this would be appreciated. Imraan Salaam Imraan, See if this may help you http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602945.0 May Allah increase us all in knowledge and guide us all to His true path pr mmKhan

is there any proof that that was the house of abraham? yeah and are makkah bakkah kaba qibla and masjidul haram all 5 places are one and the same? elektro

well bigmo, Islam as we know it today is one big mess contained of early paganism, christianity, judaism, the real islam, old arabic culture and traditions, mullah opinions, conjecture and guesses, political agendas and a whole bunch of mythes regarding some muhammad. So its a very very confused religion. Safa and Marwa is just one of those pagan rituals before Islam. just one ritual which is confusing its followers. No wonder why many sunnies or shiites when becoming quranists actually remains to be half-sunnis or half-shiites. They are victims of all that confusion Maybe we shall start a new topic to discover and expose all the paganism in traditional islam confused confused I wonder how much ''islam'' there would be back after that rotfl Paganism is a theology and not a ritual. There is nothing called a pagan ritual. Its only pagan if the ritual is dedicated to idols and gods. http//academicearth.org/lectures/biblical-religion

peace all, New article The Quran and 2196 - a lesson in critical thinking http//www.islam-and-muslims.com/articles/Quran-2196-critical-thinking.html

I think tawaaf, like bowing and prostrating, is ways by which humans worship. Its available in all societies. Peolple always had temples where they had sacrifices and festivals to commemorate God's providence. The difference between the Koranic understanding is monotheism and not doing these rituals for false gods. http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccftPtBhw1I Rituals generally tend to be protocolish. often they are temples where people gather and perform rituals. The pagan Arabs probably did so in Mecca with the Ka'ba. Often they will be reanactments of past religious significant events. The safa and Marwa is one such thing although the OT tells us it was in bersheeba and not Mecca. But the idea is the same, its a reanactment of some past religiously significant event. Its a way to preserve memory and tradition but also a way to thank God for His providence. In the Old Testament there are many of these rituals like altars and incest and sacrifices. http//vimeo.com/11133297 http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL4L2hNFe3U But the Koran wants us to do it for God and not false gods. But its part of human nature to have rituals and rites. 22.34-37 To every people did We appoint rites , that they might celebrate the name of Allah over the sustenance He gave them from animals . But your Allah is One Allah. submit then your wills to Him (in Islam) and give thou the good news to those who humble themselves,- To those whose hearts when Allah is mentioned, are filled with fear, who show patient perseverance over their afflictions, keep up regular prayer, and spend out of what We have bestowed upon them. The sacrificial camels we have made for you as among the symbols from Allah. in them is (much) good for you then pronounce the name of Allah over them as they line up when they are down on their sides , eat ye thereof, and feed such as (beg not but) live in contentment, and such as beg with due humility thus have We made animals subject to you, that ye may be grateful. It is not their meat nor their blood, that reaches Allah. it is your piety that reaches Him He has thus made them subject to you, that ye may glorify Allah for His Guidance to you and proclaim the good news to all who do right.

Salaam Alen, Yes, I've seen that article but paid no attention to all those mumblings. Regarding the direction of the Qiblah, the disbelievers will find a million reasons to disbelieve. But when the Holy Quran is absolutely clear about the rites, rituals and locations, I see no reason to question and ponder. If the Quran says the Qiblah has been changed, then it means exactly that- IT HAS BEEN CHANGED. Only the hypocrites would try to twist the meaning that the direction is changed for salat while for everything else, we still have to go the old way.... If the Qiblah were still in Jerusalem, why would GOD mention safa and marwah as parts of the pilgrimage in the Book? Are we expected to go Jerusalem and then to Mecca too? Unless ofcourse someone were to disbelieve the Book itself... But then that would be his problem. The fools among the people would say, "Why did they change the direction of their Qiblah?" Say, "To GOD belongs the east and the west; He guides whoever wills in a straight path." We thus made you an impartial community, that you may serve as witnesses among the people, and the messenger serves as a witness among you. We changed the direction of your original Qiblah only to distinguish those among you who readily follow the messenger from those who would turn back on their heels. It was a difficult test, but not for those who are guided by GOD. GOD never puts your worship to waste. GOD is Compassionate towards the people, Most Merciful. Qiblah Restored to Mecca We have seen you turning your face about the sky (searching for the right direction). We now assign a Qiblah that is pleasing to you. Henceforth, you shall turn your face towards the Sacred Masjid. Wherever you may be, all of you shall turn your faces towards it. Those who received the previous scripture know that this is the truth from their Lord. GOD is never unaware of anything they do. Even if you show the followers of the scripture every kind of miracle, they will not follow your Qiblah. Nor shall you follow their Qiblah. They do not even follow each others' Qiblah. If you acquiesce to their wishes, after the knowledge that has come to you, you will belong with the transgressors. *2142-145 "When Gabriel conveyed to Muhammad the command to face Jerusalem instead of Mecca, the hypocrites were exposed. The Arabs were strongly prejudiced in favor of the Ka`aba as their "Qiblah." Only the true believers were able to overcome their prejudices; they readily obeyed the messenger. The argument provided by the writer would be like proclaiming that Safa and Marwah hold no importance for pilgrims performing Haj or Umra. Why? Coz Hagar was never mentioned in the Holy Quran! Thus she never ran between safa and marwah, coz she ever existed, therefore logically we too dont have to complete the rituals. One can either believe in the whole Quran or nothing at all. It is when we believe in parts that the confusion arises. Hope you will not be influenced by the thoughts of the disbelievers. May He guide us all in the straight path. GOD Bless. You still have a Sunni mindset. Why should having an opinion about Qibla means you are a disbeliever or hypocrite? Why should it mean a person must have a hidden agenda? Did not the Koran say 2.177. It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah.fearing. 2.115. To Allah belong the east and the West Whithersoever ye turn, there is the presence of Allah. For Allah is all-Pervading, all-Knowing

By that logic it is still about forgiveness of sins it seems as we are greatly rewarded for doing this. I meant in that I follow the Quran only and no hadiths. Shalom, I think what youssef4342 tried to say is that there is no need to exaggerate things. Remember, the reason you are asking the question is not because you found in the ayaats of your Lord. But simply for the indoctrination of your background. I think, the question should be addressed to them instead of an audience mostly believing in God alone. From my experience, such ideas are destructive. People become arrogant and more careless (wouldnt I be, if I am promised a guaranteed place in heaven)And most certainly, God can forgive you for whatever reason He choose to, after all, He is the exceedingly merciful one. But we should not forget that he is "JUST" as well. PEACE ------------------- Student of Allah

Salam, All that reminds of the hindu festivals and temples where the deities undergo similar treatment with gold/jewels etc. I think a crystal clear Kaba would look awsome. A cube of glass. That would remove people's curiosity too. PEACE ----------------- Student of Allah

Peace All I did the pilgrimage in 2001. what a sham! I have never had the privledge of participating in a hajj, though. I wait with bated breath. Imraan

Salaam brother, That implies that anything goes. No one can be wrong? I know I am heavily biased based on my predetermined notions of salat being the traditional sunni practice, but mmkhan is right. I shouldn't be seeking forums for guidance on what I don't understand, but instead seeking guidance from AQ and from Allah. May Allah guide you in what you are looking for. And... 20114 20114 Then High above all is Allah, the King, the True. And do not be hasty with the Quraan before its inspiration is completed to you, and say My Lord, increase my knowledge. May Allah increase us all in knowledge and guide us all to His only true path pr Mohammed M. Khan

Worship of the calf never ended. The satans only strive to hide it better. Syncretism Rituals of Hajj http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jY_6d7KBew

In 2127, it is said that Abraham was told by God to raise (rafa) rules and regulations (qawaid) from (min) the Bayt (house). Now we all know that a physical building made of brick and mortar can not have some rules or principles attached to it that apply to all mankind in all times but from a single location on earth. Hence, this reference to Bayt in the verse is that of a metaphorical references. It is a spiritual house or a system that God has made for all mankind. This meaning may "overlap" with other words like sharia, deen etc. but may not be exactly similar. Moreover, Bayt can not be translated as a physical house in the last verse of Surah Nuh..as he is pleading to God to bring all believers of the world into his Bayt. By the time we reach this verse, the whole world has been drowned in a flood already so there is no physical house. Quran over and over says......DO NOT ASSOCIATE ANYTHING WITH ME.

The Qur'an never says that the sacred months are consecutive. I would judge by the names of the months, thus getting the traditional ones. 935 and 91-2, 95 show clearly that the 4 months were successive Postponement ( Nassi'u ) is only an excess of disbelief whereby those who disbelieve are misled; they allow it one year and forbid it (another) year, that they may make up the number of the months which Allah hath hallowed, so that they allow that which Allah hath forbidden. The evil of their deeds is made fair-seeming unto them. Allah guideth not the disbelieving folk. 937 Nassi' is a count they used, add a month, so they have 3 months only sacred while next year they'll have 5 , they use to temper with hte sacred months, and now according to the verses you posted, it is clear that the 4 months hve been tempered with, and that we don't have ramadan and hajj in their real time because the sacred months are no longer successive. it is a problerm though, scholars have to find a solution and get back the month they use to be, some people tell me ramadan is in winter, and the 12 islamic months are stable and the months de not move. anyway, here is names of the months Muharram is a sacred month, It's the first month, and they named it muharram because fighting in it is haram Safar Some say they named it this way because people use to leave their houses TASFAR , for war, And they say the arabs use to travel in it wich is called Safariya , and they say meccah become empty isfirar , from it's people Rabii awal and rabii akhir , This name is because of spring, the herbs show , rabii jumadi oula , it's the month of chill, jumadi means freeze jumadi akhira , use to be called jumadi sitta , sounds to me like jumadi 6 , before islam , and than it became jumadi akhir Rajab is a sacred month rajab, they say it means the stop of fighting Chaabane tatachaab the tibes, they get the waters etc... after sitting from fighting from rajab. Original name (&#1602 natiq , and when they changed the name it was a hot season, so they called it ramad , ramad means hot , but some they say it means cold. some say ramadan was in the cold. Chuwal comes from the shecamel, when she get the milk in that season, and it's the heat season for camels, and they also say it's because of the hot season they called it shuwal Dhu Kaada is a sacred months, they say it's name kaada, in arabic means sitting, when they stop fighting and go on sitting from fight. Du hijja is a sacred month, and it's the month when the ancien arabs go for hajj

Salaam, Bayta is a concept not a physical location, how could or why would Allah need a little stone hut in the desert, to be worshiped? Bayta means a structure to live within This concept can be applied to any structure, house, tent, whatever you exist within, but in the context of the Qur'an it is in reference to the structure of society we live within.