Isa ibn Maryam
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My friend you can't confirm anything from the miracles of the Quran.
It is just faith.
Prove to me that Moses split the sea.
None of the signs of the Quran was seen by us. It is a text.
I am just stating what this text actually says.
That doesn't mean it's unconfirmable, which is a completely different concept, especially when it comes to future generations. The scripture says that THOUSANDS of Israelites witnessed the parting of the sea. Even though the eye witnesses are gone now, it doesn't change the fact that there were people who could confirm the events, and these experiences were most likely passed down from generation to generation, even outside of the Torah writings. That's one basic way they were confirmed back then, and because of this, these same instances mentioned in the Qur'aan can be confirmed by comparing them to the incidents recorded in the Torah... It's not the same concept as the virgin birth, something that could NEVER have been confirmed by anyone. There was no way anyone could ever verify this claim unless they were with Maryam 24/7, ever moment of every day. And even then, they wouldn't know what's happening inside her body; this is complete hearsay, and it can't serve as a sign for anyone...
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Just because a scripture states it has been witnessed by a nation doesn't make it true.
You still can't confirm anything.
Its all just speculation and pure faith.
They are many mythologies around the world, why do you believe in the hebrew mythology?
Why not the greek mythology?
Do you have any evidence for the Biblical stories?
Archaeologically, the Bible and the Quran are bogus fairytales.
What about the Sumerians??
Where was the God of Israel then?
What about the Egyptians?
What is so special with the hebrew fairytales...they are as scientifically fictional as any other mythology.
peace
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Peace Rami,
You can't compare the mythical stories of ancient societies to the Hebrew history recorded in the Torah. First of all, the acts were witnessed by THOUSANDS of people, and they were confirmed by all the people of the time, even generations later. Therefore, if one person came up claiming that God spoke to thousands of people, which the Torah alleges, others would say, "Why didn't my parents tell me anything about this?" If the acts were so miraculous, then people would speak upon them for generations, telling their children and their children's children; in other words, the stories wouldn't be easily forgotten. This is one of the main reasons why the oral Torah (i.e. the Mischna) was preserved for so long, even before it was written down in the second century. Those stories, including the ones that are NOT mentioned anywhere in the Hebrew Bible, were preserved for thousands of years, word for word, being exact among hundreds of thousands of people DOWN TO THE LETTER. This is not coincidental, it's because these events actually happened, and the stories were passed down WORD FOR WORD through the generations of Jews and Hebrews...
Later on, the Qur'aan confirmed these Hebrew stories, which you call "myths"...
It pretty much boils down to original composition and structure, especially in relation to religion. Islaam is based on the foundations of Judaism, which is why the Qur'aan confirms the Torah. Nazarenism is also based on the traditions of ancient Judaism, which is why the Enjeel confirms the Torah, and this is also true in light of the fact that Jesus was a Jew and he taught Judaism and adherence to the Torah... So, based on this concept, Judaism is the structural foundation of all of the Abrahamic faiths. If Judaism is wrong, then Islaam and Nazarenism are also wrong; there's no denying this. If the Torah is wrong, then both the Qur'aan and the Enjeel are also wrong, since both of them claim to verify the Torah. If the Jewish prophets spoke falsely, then Muhammad was a false prophet for confirming their teachings... Considering this, do you really want to debate the authenticity of Torah and Judaism? How can the Qur'aan and Islaam stand without these?
Peace,
Ahmad
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...If the acts were so miraculous, then people would speak upon them for generations, telling their children and their children's children; in other words, the stories wouldn't be easily forgotten. This is one of the main reasons why the oral Torah (i.e. the Mischna) was preserved for so long, even before it was written down in the second century. Those stories, including the ones that are NOT mentioned anywhere in the Hebrew Bible, were preserved for thousands of years, word for word, being exact among hundreds of thousands of people DOWN TO THE LETTER. This is not coincidental, it's because these events actually happened, and the stories were passed down WORD FOR WORD through the generations of Jews and Hebrews...
Hinduism is older than Judaism with lots of myths preserved too.
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Where does it say so--thousands?
I just said "thousands" to be simplistic and to give the general point of the argument. Actually, according to the Hebrew records, there were many more people than this...
Exodus 1237 mentions 600,000 walking men, besides children. In the census taken about a year after the exodus, recorded at Numbers 12, 3, 45, 46, there were 603,550 males (20 years old and older) plus 22,000 male Levites over one month old (Numbers 232, 33; 339). Keep in mind that these are only referring to the males, not the females. If you consider, hypothetically, that all the adult men, numbered at 600,000, had one wife, that would estimate to 1,200,000 total adults who were witnesses to this incident. And that's not even including the sons and daughters of these Jews, who were also witnesses to the event... To say "thousands" is a simple generalization, but it wouldn't be farfetched at all for me to say this population numbered into the "millions"...
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Rami,
what really can bake a person's noodle is when you tell them that the majority of myths from Sumer (creator God, savior figure, flood.. dying/rising God) are there.
Copied by the Jews later? makes one ponder lol. One needs not even go into the fact that pre-Yahwistic Jews had a Goddess and she was axed out when the patriarchy rose to power and the rabbinical reforms. ( Gotta love history which tells the whole truth that most religions would rather forget. )
I might say, no disrespect intended, that a later holy book is just the earlier one with a new spin to it.
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Rami,
what really can bake a person's noodle is when you tell them that the majority of myths from Sumer (creator God, savior figure, flood.. dying/rising God) are there.
Copied by the Jews later? makes one ponder lol. One needs not even go into the fact that pre-Yahwistic Jews had a Goddess and she was axed out when the patriarchy rose to power and the rabbinical reforms. ( Gotta love history which tells the whole truth that most religions would rather forget. )
I might say, no disrespect intended, that a later holy book is just the earlier one with a new spin to it.
And it's apparently a very smart spin indeed. Just note the obvious differences in eschatology.
And you are right, history and archaeology tells what religion will never tell.
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The promises in the Torah was apparently not coming true, people who followed the Law didn't live a long life and some dies without having children so the idea of reward after death was raised in Jewish thought to compensate which slipped into the Quran.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnaPxPPvvP0
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The promises in the Torah was apparently not coming true, people who followed the Law didn't live a long life and some dies without having children so the idea of reward after death was raised in Jewish thought to compensate which slipped into the Quran.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnaPxPPvvP0
So, you believe the Qur'aan is a fabrication, modeled after the Torah as a way to spread Muhammad's personal beliefs?
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So, you believe the Qur'aan is a fabrication, modeled after the Torah as a way to spread Muhammad's personal beliefs?
His beliefs are a mystery...
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His beliefs are a mystery...
rotfl Owwww! Are you afraid?
Me without the Quran is like a fish without water.
I am just stating the apparent. Looks may be deceiving as they say.
But heck Islam is still a Jewish Messianic apocalyptic sect for the destruction of the Roman influence over Jerusalem. Zoroastrian eschatology was the necessary mobilizer and motivator for this crusade. Sorry. I can't help it. yay
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Me without the Quran is like a fish without water.
Fish without water yay
http//www.totalhealthbreakthroughs.com/newsletter/images/issue17/recipes.jpg
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But heck Islam is still a Jewish Messianic apocalyptic sect for the destruction of the Roman influence over Jerusalem. Zoroastrian eschatology was the necessary mobilizer and motivator for this crusade.
Yeah, okay... )
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Mmmmmm! looks tasty! eat
eat eat eat eat