Did staff of Moses (AS) really turn into snake?

[The_Sardar]

Peace Sardar,

Please check Lane?s dictionary, you will find few examples.

Salam
NK

Salam/Peace i will post the pages from Lane's Lexicon of Siin-Ra-Yaa

http//ejtaal.net/aa/img/ll/15/ll-1530.png

http//ejtaal.net/aa/img/ll/15/ll-1531.png

[IsaMuslim]

I do not think anything can be proved about the story of Musa and Fir3awn studying the history of Anciente Egypt, because nothing tin the Qur'an suggests that Musa was there or that those wvents took pace in Egypt or that the kings of Egypt were in any way involved in them. Fir3awn is at most a small city lord of some place, but not of Wfypt least o all king of Egypt.

Also, a lot can be read about the history of Acient Egypt but a big trouble with it is that it is mostly shaped from what the Bible and, less but also, the ideas shaped by Roman and Greek cultural conceptions. One has to pick very carefully about what one reads concerning Ancient Egyptian history.

Peace,

how do you explain that Egypt was always called "Misr" from waaay long before the Qur'an?

Why would Allah call another place "Misr" if the people of that time knew "Misr" as Egypt? Where is Misr if it is not Egypt, what is the Qur'anic evidence that it is not?

The Qur'anic evidence that it is indeed Egypt, or a part of it, is present today

The Qur'an says that the body of Pharaoh was preserved and made as a sign for us, Maurice Bucaille found the body of a Pharaoh named Ramses II whose autopsy revealed that he died from drowning, and a while later it was made into a mummy.

The Qur'an also mentioned Haman, and after centuries of Christians mocking the Qur'an because Haman in the Bible is another character, ancient hieroglyphs showed clearly the name "Haman" as the chief of the stone quarry workers.

The Qur'an also mentioned that Haman was commanded to build a tower, using baked clay, and recently a group of scientist discovered that some parts of the pyramid of Giza are not entirely made of limestone, but of baked clay.
https//www.livescience.com/1554-surprising-truth-great-pyramids-built.html

So, we are back to square one To prove or understand the Qur'an we should stick to the Qur'an and sound reasonning. Bringing purported history into the fray will set us back into importing ,once more, bilbical understandings into the Qur'an, without taking duly into account what the Qur'an itself is there to convey.

Mohammed was not in doubt about the Book of Moses reaching him

And We have given Moses the Book; so do not be in any doubt about meeting Him its reaching; and We made it a guide for the Children of Israel.
3223

Jesus was also taught the Torah

And He teaches him the Book and the Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel.
348

We should not reject the Biblical Books that easy, in them is still the Guidance. Said that, in them there is also the additions and omission of men. We are the readers and we must be wise in interpreting it, and not rejecting it altogether. The Qur'an is the last Book of the Bible, and their verses are often linked together.
The Qur'an was revealed to correct not to substitute the previous inspired Books.

On Topic

I watched the video, and I find his view very interesting, except that I have a few problems...
If Moses did prepare the staff himself with magic, why was he scared when he threw it the first time?
Why does Allah ask Moses to use the staff when crossing the sea? Can mercury produce such a thing?
How did the golden calf use to emit sounds/cries? The Sumerian tells Aaron and Moses that "he noticed something that the others did not", so he grab soil from where Moses walked, and cast it into the calf. Most likeley, he saw the staff of Moses producing some kind of special effect.

[huruf]

Misr is a common name, which like for instance in London with the name The City, may be made into a proper name for those who know it so, but basically it is not the name of a place but the common name for peopled places. Egypt was not called Misr in ancient Egyptian nor in older Arabic. Cairo, today is called Masr, as it would be called the City, because it was very populated, the same as when people living around a town, calle such a town, merely town.

Fir3awn is a proper name, not a title. The kings of Egypt were kings, not pharaoh or anything like that, that was borrowed from the Bible which took a proper name, Firwawn, and made a title out of it for its particular purposes.

As to the Qur'an,
Did Egypt have several gates to enter itas the sons of Ya3ub are told to enter thorugh different gates?

Has God levelled the pyramids or the sphinx or the ancient Egptian temples as it is said that He would have done in 7.138 if in fact He is referring to Egypt? Did the King of Egypt have to recruit people from hamlets in order to go after Musa's people as it is depicted int he Qur'an Fir3awn did? The things that re adscribed to a misr in the Qur'an cannot apply to Egypt, to Ancient Egypt. It does nto match, not at all.

m-S-r is an Arabic root which means
found, settle, civilise, colonize; to become a propulated, civilised area, become a city, a metropolis,

misr city, metropolis, capital,

Salaam

[wildguest1956]

For another approach, you may wish to have a look at this post
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12328.msg96637#msg96637

Peace

[The_Sardar]

For another approach, you may wish to have a look at this post
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12328.msg96637#msg96637

Peace

Salam/Peace JM, what are your thoughts on the video and this

Okay i found 3 verses that mentions the snake or serpent as Abu Layth Al-Maliki mentioned and it's 7107, 2020 and 2632 and i think it's best that i should show the verses with context in arabic because i am uncertain the translation for this topic and it's going to be a long list so please, have patience and read

7100
Awa lam yahdi lillatheena yarithoonaal-arda min baAAdi ahliha an law nashao asabnahumbithunoobihim wanatbaAAu AAala quloobihimfahum la yasmaAAoona

7101
Tilka alqura naqussu AAalaykamin anba-iha walaqad jaat-hum rusuluhum bialbayyinatifama kanoo liyu/minoo bima kaththaboomin qablu kathalika yatbaAAu Allahu AAalaquloobi alkafireena

7102
Wama wajadna li-aktharihimmin AAahdin wa-in wajadna aktharahum lafasiqeena

7103
Thumma baAAathna min baAAdihim moosabi-ayatina ila firAAawna wamala-ihifathalamoo biha faonuthurkayfa kana AAaqibatu almufsideena

7104
Waqala moosa yafirAAawnu innee rasoolun min rabbi alAAalameena

7105
Haqeequn AAala an laaqoola AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa qadji/tukum bibayyinatin min rabbikum faarsil maAAiya banee isra-eela

7106
Qala in kunta ji/ta bi-ayatinfa/ti biha in kunta mina alssadiqeena

7107
Faalqa AAasahu fa-ithahiya thuAAbanun mubeenun

7108
WanazaAAa yadahu fa-itha hiya baydaolilnnathireena

7109
Qala almalao min qawmi firAAawnainna hatha lasahirun AAaleemun

7110
Yureedu an yukhrijakum min ardikumfamatha ta/muroona

7111
Qaloo arjih waakhahu waarsilfee almada-ini hashireena

7112
Ya/tooka bikulli sahirin AAaleemin

7113
Wajaa alssaharatufirAAawna qaloo inna lana laajran in kunnanahnu alghalibeena

7114
Qala naAAam wa-innakum laminaalmuqarrabeena

7115
Qaloo ya moosa immaan tulqiya wa-imma an nakoona nahnu almulqeena

7116
Qala alqoo falamma alqaw saharooaAAyuna alnnasi waistarhaboohum wajaoobisihrin AAatheemin

7117
Waawhayna ila moosaan alqi AAasaka fa-itha hiya talqafu maya/fikoona

7118
FawaqaAAa alhaqqu wabatala makanoo yaAAmaloona

7119
Faghuliboo hunalika wainqalaboosaghireena

7120
Waolqiya alssaharatu sajideena

7121
Qaloo amanna birabbialAAalameena

7122
Rabbi moosa waharoona

209
Wahal ataka hadeethu moosa

2010
Ith raa naran faqalali-ahlihi omkuthoo innee anastu naran laAAallee ateekumminha biqabasin aw ajidu AAala alnnarihudan

2011
Falamma ataha noodiya yamoosa

2012
Innee ana rabbuka faikhlaAAnaAAlayka innaka bialwadi almuqaddasi tuwan

2013
Waana ikhtartuka faistamiAAlima yooha

2014
Innanee ana Allahu lailaha illa ana faoAAbudnee waaqimi alssalatalithikree

2015
Inna alssaAAata atiyatunakadu okhfeeha litujza kullu nafsin bimatasAAa

2016
Fala yasuddannaka AAanhaman la yu/minu biha waittabaAAa hawahufatarda

2017
Wama tilka biyameenika ya moosa

2018
Qala hiya AAasaya atawakkaoAAalayha waahushshu biha AAala ghanameewaliya feeha maaribu okhra

2019
Qala alqiha ya moosa

2020
Faalqaha fa-itha hiya hayyatuntasAAa

Here is something i noticed, Hayyatun (&#1577 come from the root word Ha-Ya-Ya ( &#1610 and from what i seen in PRL (Project Root-List) it does not mentioned the meaning snake or serpent

Ha-Ya-Ya = (a doubly imperfect verb) To live, be alive, be ashamed, spend (the night) awake, fertilize the earth, keep anyone alive; spare any one, let anyone alive, remove prudency, modesty and shamefulness, make immodest, To be in good condition, have the means of subsistence, to be apparent or distinct, have prolonged or preserved life, free from evil or harm, have dominion, be honored, receive benefit, to salute, to enliven/revive/give life to, to nourish, vivify/re-vivify/revive/resuscitate, endue/quicken with life, (said of land) to be tilled and made productive, to remain awake, to shrink from a thing, to forbear, to feel or have a sense of or be moved or affected with shame/shyness/bashfulness, be ashamed/shy of doing a thing, disdain or scorn a thing, abstain from a thing/refuse to do it. (http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm)

2021
Qala khuthha walatakhaf sanuAAeeduha seerataha al-oola

2022
Waodmum yadaka ila janahikatakhruj baydaa min ghayri soo-in ayatan okhra

2023
Linuriyaka min ayatinaalkubra

2024
Ithhab ila firAAawna innahu tagha

2025
Qala rabbi ishrah lee sadree

2026
Wayassir lee amree

2027
Waohlul AAuqdatan min lisanee

2028
Yafqahoo qawlee

2029
WaijAAal lee wazeeran min ahlee

2030
Haroona akhee

2031
Oshdud bihi azree

2032
Waashrik-hu fee amree

2033
Kay nusabbihaka katheeran

2034
Wanathkuraka katheeran

2035
Innaka kunta bina baseeran

2036
Qala qad ooteeta su/laka yamoosa

2037
Walaqad mananna AAalayka marratanokhra

2038
Ith awhayna ilaommika ma yooha

2039
Ani iqthifeehi fee alttabootifaiqthifeehi fee alyammi falyulqihi alyammu bialssahiliya/khuthhu AAaduwwun lee waAAaduwwun lahu waalqaytuAAalayka mahabbatan minnee walitusnaAAa AAalaAAaynee

2040
Ith tamshee okhtuka fataqoolu haladullukum AAala man yakfuluhu farajaAAnaka ilaommika kay taqarra AAaynuha wala tahzanawaqatalta nafsan fanajjaynaka mina alghammi wafatannakafutoonan falabithta sineena fee ahli madyana thumma ji/ta AAalaqadarin ya moosa

2041
WaistanaAAtuka linafsee

2042
Ithhab anta waakhooka bi-ayateewala taniya fee thikree

2043
Ithhaba ila firAAawnainnahu tagha

2044
Faqoola lahu qawlan layyinanlaAAallahu yatathakkaru aw yakhsha

2045
Qala rabbana innananakhafu an yafruta AAalayna aw an yatgha

2046
Qala la takhafainnanee maAAakuma asmaAAu waara

2047
Fa/tiyahu faqoola innarasoola rabbika faarsil maAAana banee isra-eelawala tuAAaththibhum qad ji/naka bi-ayatinmin rabbika waalssalamu AAala mani ittabaAAaalhuda

2048
Inna qad oohiya ilaynaanna alAAathaba AAala man kaththaba watawalla

2049
Qala faman rabbukuma yamoosa

2050
Qala rabbuna allatheeaAAta kulla shay-in khalqahu thumma hada

2051
Qala fama balualqurooni al-oola

2052
Qala AAilmuha AAinda rabbeefee kitabin la yadillu rabbee walayansa

2610
Wa-ith nada rabbukamoosa ani i/ti alqawma alththalimeena

2611
Qawma firAAawna ala yattaqoona

2612
Qala rabbi innee akhafu anyukaththibooni

2613
Wayadeequ sadree walayantaliqu lisanee faarsil ila haroona

2614
Walahum AAalayya thanbun faakhafuan yaqtulooni

2615
Qala kalla faithhababi-ayatina inna maAAakum mustamiAAoona

2616
Fa/tiya firAAawna faqoola innarasoolu rabbi alAAalameena

2617
An arsil maAAana banee isra-eela

2618
Qala alam nurabbika feenawaleedan walabithta feena min AAumurika sineena

2619
WafaAAalta faAAlataka allatee faAAaltawaanta mina alkafireena

2620
Qala faAAaltuha ithanwaana mina alddalleena

2621
Fafarartu minkum lamma khiftukumfawahaba lee rabbee hukman wajaAAalanee mina almursaleena

2622
Watilka niAAmatun tamunnuha AAalayyaan AAabbadta banee isra-eela

2623
Qala firAAawnu wama rabbu alAAalameena

2624
Qala rabbu alssamawatiwaal-ardi wama baynahuma in kuntummooqineena

2625
Qala liman hawlahu alatastamiAAoona

2626
Qala rabbukum warabbu aba-ikumual-awwaleena

2627
Qala inna rasoolakumu allatheeorsila ilaykum lamajnoonun

2628
Qala rabbu almashriqi waalmaghribiwama baynahuma in kuntum taAAqiloona

2629
Qala la-ini ittakhathta ilahanghayree laajAAalannaka mina almasjooneena

2630
Qala awa law ji/tuka bishay-in mubeenin

2631
Qala fa/ti bihi in kunta mina alssadiqeena

2632
Faalqa AAasahu fa-ithahiya thuAAbanun mubeenun

2633
WanazaAAa yadahu fa-itha hiya baydaolilnnathireena

2634
Qala lilmala-i hawlahu inna hathalasahirun AAaleemun

2635
Yureedu an yukhrijakum min ardikumbisihrihi famatha ta/muroona

2636
Qaloo arjih waakhahu waibAAathfee almada-ini hashireena

2637
Ya/tooka bikulli sahharin AAaleemin

2638
FajumiAAa alssaharatu limeeqatiyawmin maAAloomin

2639
Waqeela lilnnasi hal antummujtamiAAoona

2640
LaAAallana nattabiAAu alssaharatain kanoo humu alghalibeena

2641
Falamma jaa alssaharatuqaloo lifirAAawna a-inna lana laajran in kunnanahnu alghalibeena

2642
Qala naAAam wa-innakum ithanlamina almuqarrabeena

2643
Qala lahum moosa alqoo maantum mulqoona

2644
Faalqaw hibalahum waAAisiyyahumwaqaloo biAAizzati firAAawna inna lanahnualghaliboona

2645
Faalqa moosa AAasahufa-itha hiya talqafu ma ya/fikoona

2646
Faolqiya alssaharatu sajideena

2647
Qaloo amanna birabbialAAalameena

2648
Rabbi moosa waharoona

2645
Faalqa moosa AAasahufa-itha hiya talqafu ma ya/fikoona

Now here is something interesting, talqafu (&#1601 in in it's root word (Lam-Qaf-Fa - &#1601 means To catch up hurriedly, seize, swallow up quickly, destroy, undo, eat up, catch and retain, collapse, fall upon the enemy, crumble down and Ya/Fikoona in it's root word (Alif-Fa-Kaf - &#1603 means

change its manner/state, turn it away/back, change/pervert opinion/judgement, deceive, lie/falsehood/untruth, overturn, seduce.

And look at that the derivatives!

Ya'fikuuna (imp. 3rd. p. m. plu.) They feign, make a false show.
Ta'fiku (imp. 2nd. p. m. plu.) Thou turn away, seduce.
Tu'fikuuna (pip. 2nd. p. plu.) You are turned away.
Ufika (pp. 3rd. p. m. sing.) He was turned away, was deluded away.
Yu'faku (pip. 3rd. p. m. sing.) He is turned away.
Yu'fakuuna (pip. 3rd. p. m. plu.) They are turned away.
Ifkun (n.) Lie; Slander.
Affaak (n) Big slanderer.
Mu'tafikatu (ap-der. f. sing. VIII) Subverted; Overturned; Pulled down (city).
Mu'taftUt (ap-der. f. plu. VIII) Subverted.

What are the arabic words? So i can show everyone the root word meanings.

Edit* I found one of them which i think it's seerataha (&#1575

Siin-Ya-Ra ( &#1585 = to go, travel, be current, move, journey. sairun - the act of giving, journey. siratun - state/condition, make/form. sayyaratun - company of travellers, caravan.

sara vb. (1)
perf. act. 2829
impf. act. 12109, 2246, 309, 3544, 4021, 4082, 4710, 5210
impv. 3137, 611, 1636, 2769, 2920, 3042, 3418
n.vb. 3418, 5210

sayyarah n.f. 596, 1210, 1219

sirah n.f. 2021

sayyara vb. (2) impf. act. 1022, 1847
perf. pass. 1331, 7820, 813

LL, V4, p 207, 208 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=syr

[huruf]

For another approach, you may wish to have a look at this post
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12328.msg96637#msg96637

Peace
He said ?So who is the lord of you both O Moses??
He said ?Our Lord is the One who gave everything its creation, then guided.?
He said ?What then has happened to the previous generations??
He said ?It?s knowledge is with my Lord, in a record. My Lord does not err or forget.?
The One who made for you the Earth habitable and He made ways for you in it, and He brought down water from the sky, so We brought out with it pairs of vegetation of all types.
Eat and raise your livestock, in that are signs for those of thought.
From it We created you and in it We return you, and from it We bring you out another time.
And We showed him Our signs, all of them, but he denied and refused.
He said ?Have you come to us to take us out of our land with your magic O Moses??

Then after them We sent Moses with Our signs to Pharaoh and his leaders. But they did wrong in them, so see how is the end of the corrupters.
And Moses said ?O Pharaoh, I am a messenger from the Lord of the worlds.?
?It is not proper for me to say about God except the truth; I have come to you with proof from your Lord. So send with me the Children of Israel.?
He said ?If you have come with a sign then bring it, if you are of the truthful??
He threw down his staff and it manifested into a serpent.
And he drew out his hand, and it became pure white for the onlookers.
The commanders from among the people of Pharaoh said ?This is a knowledgeable magician!?
?He wishes to drive you out of your land; what is your command??

In the first account (), Moses explains to Pharaoh all the signs of the universes. He shows the signs of God exactly in the same way as in the Quran.
And, in the second account (), Moses turns his staff into a serpent, and show his hand white.

My understanding is that the second account is a metaphor of the first one. It means that the discourse of Moses was so convincing that it was as if he has turned a staff into a serpent.

If you want to check the dictionary, you will see that a white hand (yad baida) can mean an argument very clear, a demonstrating, a demonstrated argument, an allegation, or an evidence.

Good explanation, sound.

Miracle is just another word for saying "I do not know how it happenned, or how it was done".

As soon as we know how something was done we stop believing it is a miracle.

The fact is tht we think we know how many things are done, but the fact is that ONLY GOD knows how He does thing, and He is the one who does absolutely everything. And that there is nothing that is not a miracle. To believe in miracles means that the person who believes that does not believe that everyhting is a miracle, because neither we can replicate it nor can we explain it completely, although many times we may think we do know, but we just know something, a little bit.

I disagree with the people who believe in miracles because they really are not appreciating God's creation, if they did they would realise that there is nothing that is not a miracle.

Salaam

[NK]

Peace Sardar,

I am not sure if you got the answer what you were looking for. The meaning of the word which you are looking for simply means condition or state but not physical as for physical condition Quran used a different word. I hope it helps.

Salam,
NK

[The_Sardar]

Peace Sardar,

I am not sure if you got the answer what you were looking for. The meaning of the word which you are looking for simply means condition or state but not physical as for physical condition Quran used a different word. I hope it helps.

Salam,
NK

Which arabic words in the verses? So i can find the root words in PRL. Sorry if i forgot, my memory is not the best sometimes.

[NK]

Peace IsaMuslim,

You have asked following questions in your post

<<<If Moses did prepare the staff himself with magic, why was he scared when he threw it the first time?
Why does Allah ask Moses to use the staff when crossing the sea? Can mercury produce such a thing?
How did the golden calf use to emit sounds/cries? The Sumerian tells Aaron and Moses that "he noticed something that the others did not", so he grab soil from where Moses walked, and cast it into the calf. Most likeley, he saw the staff of Moses producing some kind of special effect.>>>

I will answer only those questions which are related to this topic. Other questions require lengthy answers.

First question Moses did not prepare the staff. That is the point. He was herding the sheep in Maiden for 8 years and serpent was not an unusual experience for him. Like i said in my answer (if you get the chance to read it). Moses was brought up in Pharaoh's house. In their circle they knew the trick how to magically turn sticks into serpents. I have strong believe that this staff was given to him by his step-father who died later on. Like others, he was also an honourable member of their family. It was an unusual experience for Moses when he saw his staff moving like a serpent. Moses didn't know that the staff which he was carrying for herding the sheep had the potential to move like serpent when liquid mercury become hot but God knew. His reaction was very natural.

Second question In Arabic staff also means congregation, people or nation. Staff has nothing to do with the sea. Sea recedes during high and low tides which is a natural phenomena. It is very common these days. For your reference please watch the video below.

https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfeCa3lwvQE

I hope it helps.

Salam,
NK

[The_Sardar]

In Arabic staff also means congregation, people or nation. Staff has nothing to do with the sea. Sea recedes during high and low tides which is a natural phenomena. It is very common these days. For your reference please watch the video below.

https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfeCa3lwvQE

I hope it helps.

Salam,
NK

Is this arabic word you are referring to?

Ayn-Sad-Waw = to strike with a stick. asiya/ya'sa - to take a stick, come together, collection, accumulation, amazing, gathering, assemblage, congregation. asa - staff, stick, rod, supports, nation, mastery, people, party, tongue, skin, bone. idrib bi asaka al hajer - strike with your staff on the rock, go forth with your people.

asa n.f. (pl. isiy) 260, 7107, 7117, 7160, 2018, 2066, 2632, 2644, 2645, 2663, 2710, 2831

Lane's Lexicon, Volume 5, pages 353, 354 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=eSw

[NK]

Peace Sardar,

Yes, you are right about the root word of Staff.

For the root word of "SIRAT", On the PRL i have found this

Siin-Ya-Ra = to go, travel, be current, move, journey. sairun - the act of giving, journey. siratun - state/condition, make/form. sayyaratun - company of travellers, caravan.

sara vb. (1)
perf. act. 2829
impf. act. 12109, 2246, 309, 3544, 4021, 4082, 4710, 5210
impv. 3137, 611, 1636, 2769, 2920, 3042, 3418
n.vb. 3418, 5210

sayyarah n.f. 596, 1210, 1219

sirah n.f. 2021

sayyara vb. (2) impf. act. 1022, 1847
perf. pass. 1331, 7820, 813

LL, V4, p 207, 208 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=syr

I hope this time i be able to explain it clearly. I have made the meaning in BOLD for your convenience.

Salam,
NK