why do we have to believe?
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Yes I have answered your question its you who expect this world to be paradise where as God never said this is a perfect world that is next stage since winning lottery is still a possibilty but making this world into your kind of world has Nooooo chance at all and if you dont like it than tough!!! peace peace
In order to answer it you have to explain how you can justify your belief that God has created faulty things to trip people up,perhaps and cause them great suffering?The next world,now that maybe true dodging,yes,yes,its all in the next world,unless you were one of those unfortunates God created to fail...
Farida,you are not understanding my point brickwall
I do not expect this world to be a paradise,thats clearly my point and the fact that it isnt is EVIDENCE that it has been evolved and continue to evolve,NOT CREATED,no God like intervention ,no "be". -
In order to answer it you have to explain how you can justify your belief that God has created faulty things to trip people up,perhaps and cause them great suffering?The next world,now that maybe true dodging,yes,yes,its all in the next world,unless you were one of those unfortunates God created to fail...
Farida,you are not understanding my point brickwall
I do not expect this world to be a paradise,thats clearly my point and the fact that it isnt is EVIDENCE that it has been evolved and continue to evolve,NOT CREATED,no God like intervention ,no "be".THERE IS NO FAULT IN GOD'S CREATION. everything is working according to God's timetable, make no mistake about that
And God saw EVERY THING that He had made, and, behold, it was VERY GOOD?" (Gen. 131).
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THERE IS NO FAULT IN GOD'S CREATION. everything is working according to God's timetable, make no mistake about that
And God saw EVERY THING that He had made, and, behold, it was VERY GOOD?" (Gen. 131).
We are going around in cicles here,please refer to all the other "believers"who acknowledged that God created "faulty" things.
So what is you explanation then Afridi,for the schizophrenic mind,for example,a poor human born to suffer. -
We are going around in cicles here,please refer to all the other "believers"who acknowledged that God created "faulty" things.
So what is you explanation then Afridi,for the schizophrenic mind,for example,a poor human born to suffer.what is your point?
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Are you suggesting by "timetable" that Gods creation is perfecting itself?
No!!!! Just look at yourself!
The only perfect being is God
PS
these faults are the very evidence of our slow developement,our world is not perfect,it is a work far from completion.
I cannot answer the Q you posed,as it is a bit silly(to be polite),I try to avoid dreaming also,of what I would do if I won the Lottery(which will never happen as I dont do it) O0Which means one of us is more developed than the other, infact allow me to make things easy for you and relieve you of the burden of politeness; we who believe in God are idiots, whereas those who see this world eventully evolving into a perfect world, without God, are sooo coooooool. o
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No!!!! Just look at yourself!
The only perfect being is God
PSWhich means one of us is more developed than the other, infact allow me to make things easy for you and relieve you of the burden of politeness; we who believe in God are idiots, whereas those who see this world eventully evolving into a perfect world, without God, are sooo coooooool.
1718 Whoever seeks the life of haste, We will make for Him what he wishes, then We will make Hell for him a place which he will reach disgraced and rejected.
1719 And whoever seeks the Hereafter and strives for it as it deserves, and is a believing person, then to those what they have sought is given in thanks.
1720 For both groups We will bestow from the bounty of your Lord. And the bounty of your Lord is never restricted.
1721 See how We have preferred some of them over the others; and in the Hereafter are greater levels, and greater preference. -
1718 Whoever seeks the life of haste, We will make for Him what he wishes, then We will make Hell for him a place which he will reach disgraced and rejected.
1719 And whoever seeks the Hereafter and strives for it as it deserves, and is a believing person, then to those what they have sought is given in thanks.
1720 For both groups We will bestow from the bounty of your Lord. And the bounty of your Lord is never restricted.
1721 See how We have preferred some of them over the others; and in the Hereafter are greater levels, and greater preference.1730 For your Lord increases the provision for anyone He chooses, and reduces it. He is fully Cognizant of His creatures, Seer.
1745 When you read the Quran, we place between you and those who do not believe in the Hereafter an invisible barrier
1746 We place shields around their minds, to prevent them from understanding it, and deafness in their ears. And when you preach your Lord, using the Quran alone, they run away in aversion
1749 They said, "After we turn into bones and fragments, we get resurrected anew
peace -
In order to answer it you have to explain how you can justify your belief that God has created faulty things to trip people up,perhaps and cause them great suffering?The next world,now that maybe true dodging,yes,yes,its all in the next world,unless you were one of those unfortunates God created to fail...
Give me one good reason why I have to explain anything to you when this is what my Lord says
As for those who are blind in this life, they will be blind in the Hereafter; even a lot worse.Farida,you are not understanding my point brickwall
I do not expect this world to be a paradise,thats clearly my point and the fact that it isnt is EVIDENCE that it has been evolved and continue to evolve,NOT CREATED,no God like intervention ,no "be".Why are you again P....d off; I know exactly what you are trying to say, from your very earliest post but, as my God says
"As for My servants, you have no power over them." Your Lord suffices as an advocate" -
"THERE IS NO FAULT IN GOD'S CREATION."
You cant be serious!
I cant see the wood for the trees comes to mind.
Are you suggesting by "timetable" that Gods creation is perfecting itself?And. O.k. could you be more specific as to what you tryin to prove. Or are you just conjecturing? Bring your proofs.
And yes, God has perfected the creation. I do not find were it says God created faulty creations for this and that reason. But I do find were God has preffered some over others and that God does and creates what He pleases and He knows what is in the wombs ect...
And you said earlyer that no one created the one born wit the faulty brain. Then how did they get here? Or was God unaware of there creation? Or did someone else create faulty creatures besides God?
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It's nice to see everyone is expressing their thought about God... Keep it up guys... spread the love so others may learn from it... hehe... instead of seeing fire flaming see light showering and you'll see differently...
farida i guess i can't understand what you want to say other than what i have replied... but it's cool... no need to prolonged the less important details.. and i think you are well aware about yourself with God so let's be in peace.... no need to bump our head to the wall...
we're all already good... no need to worry...
salam
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"THERE IS NO FAULT IN GOD'S CREATION."
You cant be serious!
I cant see the wood for the trees comes to mind.
Are you suggesting by "timetable" that Gods creation is perfecting itself?We have indeed created man in the best of moulds. Then do we abase him to be the lowest of the low.9545
And your Lord creates and chooses whom He pleases; to choose is not theirs; glory be to Allah, and exalted be He above what they associate .}* (Al- Qasas 286.
He, Whose is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth, and Who did not take to Himself a son, and Who has no associate in the kingdom, and Who created everything, then ordained for it a measure
No evil befalls on the earth nor in your own souls, but it is in a book before We bring it into existence; surely that is easy to Allah.}* (Al-Hadid 5722).
We could have been still-born, born in a royal palace or in a slum, as handsome or ugly, as a boy or girl, with high IQ or a lower one, with no congenital deformity or with many, and with multiple defective genes and hereditary diseases. Every person?s ID card relating to his anatomy, physiology, biochemistry and all the other characteristics are encoded in the genes of his chromosomes and determined in the womb. Acceptance of destiny acts as a solace in many stressful situations. Allah says, what meansAllah's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth; He creates what He pleases; He grants to whom He pleases daughters and grants to whom He pleases sons.}* (Ash-Shurah 4249).
Allah, unlike us, cannot be questioned for His acts. The Qur?an says, what means
He cannot be questioned concerning what He does and they shall be questioned. (Al-Anbiyaa' 2123).
All do We aid-- these as well as those-- out of the bounty of your Lord, and the bounty of your Lord is not confined. See how We have made some of them to excel others, and certainly the hereafter is much superior in respect of excellence.}* (Al-Israa' 1720-21).
And if We make man taste mercy from Us, then take it off from him, most surely he is despairing, ungrateful. And if We make him taste a favor after distress has afflicted him, he will certainly say The evils are gone away from me. Most surely he is exulting, boasting; Except those who are patient and do good, they shall have forgiveness and a great reward.}* (Hud 119-11).
Suffering in this world is a trial and a test not only for the mentally ill persons, but also for those with whom they interact
And We will most certainly try you with somewhat of fear and hunger and loss of property and lives and fruits; and give good news to the patient, who, when a misfortune befalls them, say ?Surely we are Allah's and to Him we shall surely return.? Those are they on whom are blessings and mercy from their Lord, and those are the followers of the right course.}* (Al-Baqarah 2155-157).
This also includes psychiatric cases. People who encountered suffering and adversity have better chances to go to Paradise, for Allah says, the meaning ofOr do you think that you would enter the garden while yet the state of those who have passed away before you has not come upon you; distress and affliction befell them and they were shaken violently, so that the Messenger and those who believed with him said When will the help of Allah come? Now surely the help of Allah is nigh! (Al-Baqarah 2214
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We created man from an extract of clay. Then We made him as a drop in a place of settlement, firmly fixed. Then We made the drop into an Alaqah* (leech, suspended thing, blood clot), then We made the Alaqah into a Mudghah** (chewed, lump)? The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 23,Verse 12-14
Let him beware! If he does not stop, We will drag him by the Forelock * , a lying, sinful forelock? The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 96,Verse 15-16 police
Do not the unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together, then We clove them asunder, and made from water every living thing? Will they not then believe?" - The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 21,Verse 30
Or (the unbelievers? state) is like the darkness in a deep sea. It is covered by waves, above which are waves, above which are clouds. Darknesses, one above another. If a man stretches out his hand, he cannot see it
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Farida After rereading your post i think i get it what you meant... but i did answer it correctly previously... i want to rephrase it.. allow me to take another shot
i moved on in my thought patterns... but it does not mean i have to go away from this forum because this forum discusses Muhammads teaching from the ancient civilizations (which i think you meant Quran teaching). I'm interested to discuss about God, monotheism and our future rather than the past... so you'll see me more on discussion about God and those paranormal and modern stuff. I'm not interested to discuss about the other things (e.g Fasting, Salat, Hajj, Hadth Quran Islam Muhammad etc) in this forum. But i don't understand why you say Muhammad's backward teaching... can you explain?
As to why you say those that moved on seemed reluctant
I don't know about the others but I don't see it that way. in fact i felt this forum is like my home... there's a lot more to learn... is that wrong?If you still don't understand maybe my english or my ability to explain my thought is bad.. I apologize... '(
Peace group
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Farida After rereading your post i think i get it what you meant... but i did answer it correctly previously... i want to rephrase it.. allow me to take another shot
i moved on in my thought patterns... but it does not mean i have to go away from this forum
I don't know about the others but I don't see it that way. in fact i felt this forum is like my home... there's a lot more to learn... is that wrong?
If you still don't understand maybe my english or my ability to explain my thought is bad.. I apologize... '(
Peace group
When-did- I tell- you-to- move-away-from-this-forum???
-This-forum-is-open-for-all- including-those-who-want-to-dicuss-anal sex. Can't-you-understand-that-if -you-moved-on then-why-can't-you -leave-those-alone-those-who-love-God,-love-the-Qur'an-and have-a-high-regard-for-all-the-prophets.As to why you say those that moved on seemed reluctant...I'm interested to discuss about God, monotheism and our future rather than the past... so you'll see me more on discussion about God and those paranormal and modern stuff.
You are not the only one who moved on in your thought process; from the day we are born we move in different directions along with our outlook on life, belief etc. Some who had a bad up-bringing in the teachings of Islam leave it with a bad taste in their mouths, whereas others who experience life's ups and downs and then come to find truth, logic and God through the Qur'an are often the ones who went through big upheavals in life. I know many such, mostly western people, and you would find them on this forum too. One example is our member Arnab. Read her story and see how she has moved on. I can only say you may think you are moving forward, but to others it may mean falling behind,
why you say Muhammad's backward teaching... can you explain?
I was paraphrasing you; for you the teachings of the Qur'an are of and about the past, but for others it is the most contemperory book of guidance much more facinating then those paranormal and modern stuff. yes
Anyway good luck with your life's ventures.
handshake -
But I do find were God has preffered some over others and that God does and creates what He pleases and He knows what is in the wombs ect...
Precisely,
God chooses the state of his creation. He prefers some over others.
1675 God puts forth the example of a slave who is owned and cannot achieve anything, against one whom We have provided a good provision which he spends of it secretly and openly. Are they the same? God be praised, but most of them do not know.
1676 And God puts forth the example of two men, one of them is mute and he cannot achieve anything, and he is a burden to his guardian. Wherever he points him, he does not come with any good. Is he the same as one who orders good and he is upon a straight path? -
Peace,
but it's no fun to answer that way... so i like to share my own words and experience...
I think it is the matter what you want God is in your heart.. You want a loving and forgiving God? or you want a wrathful and jealous God? The more you focus on a loving God the more the love of God that you see. Same like the latter... The more you focus on wrathful God the the wrath of God that you see.Lets say in my garden I have an apple tree. You say it is an orange tree, I for some reason say its a mango tree. You do realise that the tree exists as an apple tree regardless of what we see it as... Similarly the fact that you think God is subject to what an individual's "heart" dictates tells me you see something vastly different from the living creator that is independent of creation.
God is all, omniscent, omnipotent and whatnot... we understand that. But sometimes our mind tend to bias God on His certain aspect of Him. Since our childhood, our culture and beliefs have been imposed on us only some of His aspects. Once we grow and start questioning about God.. that's when the journey starts to become interesting... we will see a lot of thought, q&a about God, revelations, scriptures and a lot of things. Quran has said a lot about what God is... especially on the preferences of Allah to the believers... Heaven and hell, Judgmenet day and etc. I've walked this path before... and when i learned from it to apply the method like i mentioned earlier.... and i see more...
Your write as though you have some lesson to share. Yet you do not share any of it and merely conjecture.
this is the wall or borders that had been made to stay at certain belief area... like i said... you can belief God is wrathful or God is forgiving. You can mix both... but in the end you will end up a question like the OP asked.... if we try to apply the method above... which is put aside the wrathful God belief for a while and try to experiment to focus solely on the loving side of God for a while. See where it goes... maybe you'd like it... ;D
The problem is, that God exists outside of your "heart" and can do as he pleases. So if you fool yourself into believing in the imaginary God you knowingly concocted in your mind than I am not a guardian over you.
If you feared God will incur a wrath to you if you did or go to hell because of it... It's fine... it's just that you're not ready to walk beyond the border... you can stay there until you're ready... keep in mind that you hold the key to all of the doors God has given to you. You choose when to open it yourself.
Bring evidence if you are truthful.
So i conclude to myself some of the Quran teaching are mostly valid to the people at that time. Not to say to disbelief in Quran's teaching. It's just that i have felt i have learned enough of it's wisdom. So i move on to find a different path to see whether it is easier for me to find Him.
831 And if Our revelations are recited to them, they say ?We have listened, and if we wish, we could have said the same thing. This is nothing but tales of the ancients!?
832 And they said ?Our god, if this is the truth from You, then send down upon us a rain of stones from the sky or bring on us a painful retribution.?1036 Most of them only follow conjecture. While conjecture does not avail against the truth in anything. God is aware of what they do.
1037 This Qur?an could not have been produced without God, but it is to authenticate what is already present, and to give detail to the Scripture in which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds.
1038 Or do they say he invented it? Say ?Then bring a chapter like it, and call upon whoever you can besides God if you are truthful!?
1039 No, they have lied about that which they did not have knowledge of, nor has its explanation come to them. It is also how those before them denied, so see how was the retribution of the wicked!1113 Or do they say ?He invented it!? Say ?Bring ten invented chapters like it, and call on whom you can besides God if you are truthful.?
1114 So, if they do not respond to you, then know that it was sent down with God?s knowledge, and that there is no god but He. Will you then submit?223 And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to Our servant, then bring a chapter like this, and call upon your witnesses other than God if you are truthful.
224 And if you cannot do this; and you will not be able to do this; then beware the Fire whose fuel is people and stones, it has been prepared for the rejecters.God has already informed me of your kind.
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Can't-you-understand-that-if -you-moved-on then-why-can't-you -leave-those-alone-those-who-love-God,-love-the-Qur'an-and have-a-high-regard-for-all-the-prophets.
Hehe i can't leave them alone cuz i felt obliged to at least give my thoughts just in case some one might be interested with it.... that's why i always say take it or leave it... i just can't shut up if i have a thought that i have to say (bad habit i guess P).....
I have no issues with love God... but i have to say love Quran, prophet or anything worldly up to the level that one got attached to it is something that one has to be careful of... you guys know "the litmus" test right?
Anyway good luck with your life's ventures.
handshakeThank you.. good luck to you too ;D ;D
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Peace,
May peace be to you too, let us share our thoughts together... handshake
Lets say in my garden I have an apple tree. You say it is an orange tree, I for some reason say its a mango tree. You do realise that the tree exists as an apple tree regardless of what we see it as... Similarly the fact that you think God is subject to what an individual's "heart" dictates tells me you see something vastly different from the living creator that is independent of creation.
Umm i think you thought i am saying the heart is the God right? .... I apologize if i'm mistaken.... God is something that is unfathomable... nobody can explain it other than a certain aspect of Him especially in this physical dimension (Him in my view is not male i just got used to it) but the heart is as far as i know now is the closest way that we can "commune" with God.... It dictates we are searching God from the inside rather than from the outside where there is a lot of distortion (worldly material stuff)... There's a lot of "signs" of God out there.... be aware of it.... The heart is pure... but the mind, (i think it's maybe the left brain)... has somehow took over the heart (probably due to how we are raised nowadays) where we can only listen to the heart only when we are desperate or the mind has no other way to find a solution or when we completely empty our mind or change our focus thought to God when we meditate, pray or thinking deeply.... i'm sorry if i don't define it earlier but i think it's easier us to think God is in our heart... The physical heart is kinda like our bio generator... never ceased pumping with the rythm that had been dictated by the Creator.... fascinating isn't it? from where do it gets it's energy i wonder... do you know?... I don't know whether the physical heart and the heart that i said earlier is the same... but does it matter? Maybe the heart is the soul? maybe we'll know sooner or later.... i think Quran did show it somewhere.. but it's ok for me...
Your write as though you have some lesson to share. Yet you do not share any of it and merely conjecture.
it's my experience which in turn... i don't conjecture my experience... i "share"... by sharing i mean you can read it or you can ignore it or you can discuss with it...
The problem is, that God exists outside of your "heart" and can do as he pleases. So if you fool yourself into believing in the imaginary God you knowingly concocted in your mind than I am not a guardian over you.
The problem is God from the outside is far reached with our physical hands whereas he is closer than our jugular vein from the inside (remember i'm not saying God is "only" from inside. it is unfathomable. But there are paths that we can find God.. listening from the inside is one of it)..... how do you know God that i perceive is imaginary? even i have problem to understand it inside me.... but i just know it without definition.... you always focus to God while you're praying right? is it imaginary?
Bring evidence if you are truthful.
i don't have any proof other than what it had made me now... group
831 And if Our revelations are recited to them, they say We have listened, and if we wish, we could have said the same thing. This is nothing but tales of the ancients!
832 And they said Our god, if this is the truth from You, then send down upon us a rain of stones from the sky or bring on us a painful retribution.1036 Most of them only follow conjecture. While conjecture does not avail against the truth in anything. God is aware of what they do.
1037 This Quran could not have been produced without God, but it is to authenticate what is already present, and to give detail to the Scripture in which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds.
1038 Or do they say he invented it? Say Then bring a chapter like it, and call upon whoever you can besides God if you are truthful!
1039 No, they have lied about that which they did not have knowledge of, nor has its explanation come to them. It is also how those before them denied, so see how was the retribution of the wicked!1113 Or do they say He invented it! Say Bring ten invented chapters like it, and call on whom you can besides God if you are truthful.
1114 So, if they do not respond to you, then know that it was sent down with Gods knowledge, and that there is no god but He. Will you then submit?223 And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to Our servant, then bring a chapter like this, and call upon your witnesses other than God if you are truthful.
224 And if you cannot do this; and you will not be able to do this; then beware the Fire whose fuel is people and stones, it has been prepared for the rejecters.God has already informed me of your kind.
Is it directly from God or is it from the mouth of Muhammad who is trying desperately to convince the Arabs who only God knows what he was thinking? or is it from the mouth of those who memorized it who we have not seen them face to face or hear them recite to us directly? or is it from the leaves or animal skin which we already "told" have been burned? There's a mixed level of subtlety and the unknown there.... why not ask them first to give the evidence if they're truthful?... or yeah they're not in this time anymore... we have to trust the oral story of the Arabs on how it came about.... may peace be upon them... handshake
Again.. not to disbelief Quran... just a critical thought.... group
i came to know that all the material in this world is just a tool/catalyst/guide/helper for us to learn and go higher... take the wisdom of it as much as we can...Quran is a book of wisdom anyway.... try not to rely on it too much literally.... don't expect the best suraverse number from literal translation or the or the arabic version which is from golden Quran proven with complex 19 code without sura 9128-129 will go with us when we're not living here anymore.... i apologize if anybody felt insulted.... remember the idolatry test....
Please don't take this seriously... i'm just entertaining my thought .... thank you for the comments.... jedi
Peace
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Hehe i can't leave them alone cuz i felt obliged to at least give my thoughts just in case some one might be interested with it.... that's why i always say take it or leave it... i just can't shut up if i have a thought that i have to say (bad habit i guess ).....
Oh so you are on a mission to guide whom you consider misguided hmm; try your luck unless you are on someone?s payroll elektro. I don?t see you achieving much. I see you advising aalmakto as if he needs your advice laugh
I have no issues with love God... but i have to say love Quran, prophet or anything worldly up to the level that one got attached to it is something that one has to be careful of...
bravo you have no issue with God only with Mohammad who, according to you, was desperately trying to reach the Arabs and ended up reaching the whole world including "the Modern ones" in the west. Now it seems you are desperately trying to undo that feat; keep trying. I don?t see you have much else to do. brickwall
you guys know "the litmus" test right?
Wrong!!we know nothing it?s you who seemed to come to know more than you can swallow, so that is why you are desperate to advice someone like me who thinks of you as just another lost kid seeking attention, ( ) pr