The Quran and The Legends of the Jews

belH

Specific laws for specific time.

Peace
The laws at Jacob time was that all kind of food were permitted to Moslems (submitters). But when Torah was given to Moses, the laws changed; God prohibited the Food that the children of Israel had prohibited on themselves (during the time from Jacob untill the Torah was revealed) without God's permission.

Muslimtruthrevealed

Assalaam Alaikum

There is NOT one statement in the Quran where Allah states 'I gave Musa,as Torah'...

(Some of) You people are just making these statements up and Allah,swt says you made it up!.

? And they do not evaluate ALLAH as HIS true evaluation. When they said? ALLAH has not revealed on any human being from anything? Say ? Who has revealed AL-KITAB/THE BOOK, that MOOSA/MOSES came with it?? A light and guidance for mankind YOU HAVE MADE IT QARATISA/PAPERS, you make them appear good/convincing and you conceal the truth (of Al Kitab), although you have been taught things that neither you nor your forefathers had ever known" Say ?Allah has revealed then leave them in their vain, idle tale without purpose.?

This ayah is speaking directly to those who are corrupting the true aspect of guidance given to Muusa,as and creating their own books, volumes and interpretations. Concealing the guidance from people, by perverting, slandering and committing blasphemy through the distribution and discussion of these untruths.

How much more clearer do you need it?

If you cant see this perversion and corruption attributed to those who are 'associating' and 'attaching' the 'Torah' to the Quran, described in the previous ayah, then you are not a Believer.

unknownuser

Assalaam Alaikum

There is NOT one statement in the Quran where Allah states 'I gave Musa,as Torah'...

(Some of) You people are just making these statements up and Allah,swt says you made it up!.

? And they do not evaluate ALLAH as HIS true evaluation. When they said? ALLAH has not revealed on any human being from anything? Say ? Who has revealed AL-KITAB/THE BOOK, that MOOSA/MOSES came with it?? A light and guidance for mankind YOU HAVE MADE IT QARATISA/PAPERS, you make them appear good/convincing and you conceal the truth (of Al Kitab), although you have been taught things that neither you nor your forefathers had ever known" Say ?Allah has revealed then leave them in their vain, idle tale without purpose.?

This ayah is speaking directly to those who are corrupting the true aspect of guidance given to Muusa,as and creating their own books, volumes and interpretations. Concealing the guidance from people, by perverting, slandering and committing blasphemy through the distribution and discussion of these untruths.

How much more clearer do you need it?

If you cant see this perversion and corruption attributed to those who are 'associating' and 'attaching' the 'Torah' to the Quran, described in the previous ayah, then you are not a Believer.

Salam,

As usual, MTR is ignoring all the verses that have been listed here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=11435.msg180330#msg180330

And, due to a lack of knowledge of the Semitic languages, asinine grammar and the inability to comprehend verses MTR has decided that his misunderstandings are fact.

Salam,
Arnab

Muslimtruthrevealed

Assalaam Alaikum

Obviously, as one can see the 'Torah Peddler' lacks emotional intelligence. So lets engage her with the Quranic ayahs, and as a result we will understand who displays the negative characterizations she defined.

And remember We took your covenant and We raised above you the Mount / rafaAAna fawqakumu Al-Toora. (Saying). "Hold firmly to what We have given you and bring (ever) to remembrance what is therein. Perchance you may fear Allah."

And remember MOOSA/MOSES in AL-KITAB/THE BOOK, surely he was devout/sincere and a Messenger, Prophet.
And we called him from the right side of the Mount / janibi Al-Toori , and made him draw near to Us, for mystic (converse).

Janiba means one who is in a temporary state from submission and recognition of guidance; one who is being led or called to guidance or recognition;Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 102-103 (janaba)

toori manner, way of action, kind, class, limit, time(repeated action), stage, state
Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 345 (tara)

According to the Quran Allah revealed and inspired Muusa,as with Al-Toori, incorrectly translated in english as 'Mount Sinai'

Yet in the 'Torah' or Old Testament, the Bibilical rendition says or suggests Muusa,as was given the 'Torah' on Mount Sinai.

But individuals like Arnab and Behammed literally change the word 'Tawrat' in the Quran to 'Torah', not realizing that Al-Tawrat and Al-Toori are TWO distinct aspects or attributes of Al-Kitab.

I ask Arnab and Behammed (as I asked in a previous thread and got no answer)

What is the difference between Al-Tawrat / and Al-Toori / ?

Muslimtruthrevealed

Quran says Muusa,as given Al-Toori at 'Mount Sinai'
Al-Tawrat is NOT Al-Toori
Torah /OT says Muusa, given 'Torah' at Mount Sinai
Arnab changes every ayah with 'Tawrat' to 'Torah
Changing the references to Al-Toori to 'Torah', wont help Arnab either.

Arnab has a problem, and the Quran has corrected her perversion and misinterpretation of the ayahs of Allah.

Rami

What is the difference between Al-Tawrat / and Al-Toori / ?

Peace MTR,

You said that Al-Toori is an attribute of the Book. What about this verse

2320 And a tree which emerges from the mount of Sinai, it grows oil and is a relish for those who eat.
2320

Does a tree emerge from the Book? Toor means mount.

The Torah is a collection of books as seen in the following verses

625 The example of those who were given the Torah, but then failed to uphold it, is like the donkey that is carrying a cargo of books. Miserable indeed is the example of people who denied God's revelations. And God does not guide the wicked people.
625

Peace.

Muslimtruthrevealed

You are NOT comprehending 62.6 correctly, Its actually speaking against what you are doing. People have failed to uphold the Tawrat which has the Hukm of Allah, the Governance of Allah.

As a result, they created their own books, Torah, Talmud, Mishna, Germerra, etc. and they are like donkeys, carrying around volumes of these books and imposing their books and perverting the true guidance of Allah with these 'books'.

Again, you cant change words around, Torah is NOT Tawrat!

Also a (origin) pattern of behavior brought forth / from Mount Sinai / toori saynaa, which produces oil, and relish for those who use it for food.

shajaratan original pattern of behavior
takhruju is being brought forth or brought out

toori manner, way of action, kind, class, limit, time(repeated action), stage, state
Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 345 (tara)

saynaato act with piety by following ordinances and prohibitions of Allah. Good or pious way of acting. Light, shining, gleaming, fire, to make easy,, to raise, exalt or elevate, REVOLUTION, RETURN, APPLIED TO A PORTION OF TIME
Lanes Lexicon Book 4 page 1448- 1450

Its NOT a 'tree' or 'Mount Sinai', thats a misinterpretion and Biblical reference imposed by the translator of the Quran in english.

Ahmad_Bilal

Peace MTR,

Quran says Muusa,as given Al-Toori at 'Mount Sinai'
Al-Tawrat is NOT Al-Toori
Torah /OT says Muusa, given 'Torah' at Mount Sinai

There is a distinction between "altoori" and "altawrat" in the scriptures. It looks like you're confusing the two...

All food used to be lawful for the Children of Israel, until Israel imposed certain prohibitions on themselves before altawrat was sent down. Say, "Bring altawrat and read it, if you are truthful." (393)

In this case, "altawrat" is clearly speaking about the scriptures that the Jews/Hebrews receieved, which were sent down to the prophets of Israel. On the other hand

And We called him from altoori al-ayman, and We approached him secretly conversing. (1952)

The word used here is "TOOR", which refers to a mountain, not a scripture. Therefore, "altoor" would be translated in this case as "the mountain" (or the mount). The same is the case with 263.

And when We took your covenant, and We raised above you altoor, take what We gave you with strength, and remember what is in it, maybe you fear and obey. (263)

This verse is also clearly speaking about the mountain, not the scripture. This is not the same thing as "altawrat", which refers to the book. The Quran never says Moses was given the Torah/Tawrat; he was given the statute book. To say "Moses was given altoor" is to imply that Moses was given the mountain, which is illogical. He was given the statute book at altoor/the mountain.

Peace,

Ahmad

Muslimtruthrevealed

Im confusing the two?

How about taking the time to read the thread and the context and content before commenting. Your imposing english and biblical interpretations also.

Im making the distinction between Al-Toori, Al-Tawrat and something created by men called the 'Torah'

Torah is NOT a revealed document its a created and derived document.

Muslimtruthrevealed

toori manner, way of action, kind, class, limit, time(repeated action), stage, state
Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 345 (tara)

The word "Torah" in Hebrew "is derived from the root which in the hifil conjugation means "to teach" (cf. Lev. 1011). The meaning of the word is therefore "teaching," "doctrine," or "instruction"; the commonly accepted "law" gives a wrong impression." Other translational contexts in the English language include custom, theory, guidance, or system. The term "Torah" is therefore also used in the general sense to include both Judaism's written law and oral law, serving to encompass the entire spectrum of authoritative Jewish religious teachings throughout history, including the Mishnah, the Talmud, the Midrash and more, and the inaccurate rendering of "Torah" as "Law" may be an obstacle to "understanding the ideal that is summed up in the term talmud torah ( , "study of Torah,&quot, characterized in Jewish tradition as excelling all things."

Exodus 1249?..One law / towrah shall be to him that is native / 'ezrach (to Israel), and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

The Torah is ONLY relevant to those Jews in Israel. 'ezrach means to 'come from the soil, that land'

Rami

toori manner, way of action, kind, class, limit, time(repeated action), stage, state
Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 345 (tara)

The word "Torah" in Hebrew "is derived from the root which in the hifil conjugation means "to teach" (cf. Lev. 1011). The meaning of the word is therefore "teaching," "doctrine," or "instruction"; the commonly accepted "law" gives a wrong impression." Other translational contexts in the English language include custom, theory, guidance, or system. The term "Torah" is therefore also used in the general sense to include both Judaism's written law and oral law, serving to encompass the entire spectrum of authoritative Jewish religious teachings throughout history, including the Mishnah, the Talmud, the Midrash and more, and the inaccurate rendering of "Torah" as "Law" may be an obstacle to "understanding the ideal that is summed up in the term talmud torah ( , "study of Torah,&quot, characterized in Jewish tradition as excelling all things."

Exodus 1249..One law / towrah shall be to him that is native / 'ezrach (to Israel), and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

The Torah is ONLY relevant to those Jews in Israel. 'ezrach means to 'come from the soil, that land'

Ok. Where is the 'toor' you are talking about?? What about the Injeel??

Rami

You are NOT comprehending 62.6 correctly, Its actually speaking against what you are doing. People have failed to uphold the Tawrat which has the Hukm of Allah, the Governance of Allah.

As a result, they created their own books, Torah, Talmud, Mishna, Germerra, etc. and they are like donkeys, carrying around volumes of these books and imposing their books and perverting the true guidance of Allah with these 'books'.

Again, you cant change words around, Torah is NOT Tawrat!

Also a (origin) pattern of behavior brought forth / from Mount Sinai / toori saynaa, which produces oil, and relish for those who use it for food.

shajaratan original pattern of behavior
takhruju is being brought forth or brought out

toori manner, way of action, kind, class, limit, time(repeated action), stage, state
Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 345 (tara)

saynaato act with piety by following ordinances and prohibitions of Allah. Good or pious way of acting. Light, shining, gleaming, fire, to make easy,, to raise, exalt or elevate, REVOLUTION, RETURN, APPLIED TO A PORTION OF TIME
Lanes Lexicon Book 4 page 1448- 1450

Its NOT a 'tree' or 'Mount Sinai', thats a misinterpretion and Biblical reference imposed by the translator of the Quran in english.

You missed to explain the oil and food part of the verse. What will that mean according to your interpretation?

Peace.

Muslimtruthrevealed

Point One

Exodus 1249?..One law / towrah shall be to him that is native / 'ezrach (to Israel), and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

The Torah is ONLY relevant to those Jews in Israel. 'ezrach means to 'come from the soil, that land'

'Prophets' (native) to Israel

These 'Prophets' served with various 'rulers' and 'kings'

Samuel, Nathan, Gad, Ahijah, Iddo, Azariah , Hanani, Jehu, Jahaziel, Elijah, Micaiah, Eliezer, Zechariah, Elisha, Isaiah, Hosea, Amos, Micah, Jonah, Oded, Huldah, Zephaniah, Jeremiah, Uriah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Haggai, Zechariah, Obadiah, Joel, Nahum, Habakkuk, Malachi

Compare these 'Prophets' with the Prophets of the Quran

Point Two

The 'Torah' as attributed to Moses / Muusa was lost and destroyed, ponder 1 KING 1425-26 AND DEUTERONOMY 311-30

Deu 311 And Moses went and spake these words unto all Israel.

Moses begins telling the people of Israel about the blessings Allah will bestow upon them, how they will oppress and conquer people.

Deu 313 The LORD thy God, he will go over before thee, he will destroy these nations from before thee, and thou shalt possess them Joshua, he shall go over before thee, as the LORD hath said.

Moses then documents (writes) these instructions and prophecies and commands the people to follow them.

Deu 319 And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel.

Deu 3111 When all Israel is come to appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing.
Deu 3112 Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God, and observe to do all the words of this law

But wait a minute.......

Allah,swt suddenly makes an appearance!!!

Allah,swt tells Mose's 'excuse me, lets put an end to what you just told the people, I have something to tell you, go get Joshua, gather all your people, I have something to say"

Deu 3114 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thy days approach that thou must die call Joshua, and present yourselves in the tabernacle of the congregation, that I may give him a charge. And Moses and Joshua went, and presented themselves in the tabernacle of the congregation.

To be continued........ ;D

Muslimtruthrevealed

As we continue to show the formation and development of the 'Torah' (NOT to be confused with the Tawrat of the Quran) from the Biblical references.

Lets review what has been established thus far

Point One

Exodus 1249?..One law / towrah shall be to him that is native / 'ezrach (to Israel), and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

The Torah is ONLY relevant to those Jews in Israel. 'ezrach means to 'come from the soil, that land'

Point Two

The 'Torah' as attributed to Moses / Muusa was lost and destroyed, ponder 1 KING 1425-26 AND DEUTERONOMY 311-30

Allah has 'appeared'....'uuh oh someone is in trouble'.... &

Deu 3115 And the LORD appeared in the tabernacle in a pillar of a cloud and the pillar of the cloud stood over the door of the tabernacle.

Allah corrects Moses and tells him what will become of those in Israel...

Deu 3116 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.

In Deu 313 ? 315 Moses spoke for Allah and misinformed the people of Israel suggesting that Allah will ?destroy these nations from before thee, and thou shalt possess them ? but Allah now CORRECTS Moses and informs the people of Israel as to their future?.

Deu 3117 Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God not among us?

Deu 3118 And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.

Quranic Confirmation
"Will you call upon Baal and forsake the Best of Creators,-

Allah instructs the People of Israel to ?write? or ?record? the ?song? the Hebrew word is ?shiyr?, pronounced like ?sheer? means to proclaim something to someone, speak or celebrate someone/something as if it were a song/melodic.

Its Hebrew root is /shuwr pronounced like the word ?sure-(a), equivalent to the Arabic Root Sura

Deu 3119 Now therefore write ye this song/sura (Hebrew shiyr/ /shuwr Arabic Root Sura) for you, and teach it the children of Israel put it in their mouths, that this song/sura may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.

Allah has REPLACED that which Moses wrote/decreed as ?Towrah/Torah with shiyr/shuwr (Hebrew shiyr / /shuwr Arabic Root Sura)..i.e. Sura?s

Deu 3122 Moses therefore wrote / decreed this song/sura the same day, and taught it the children of Israel.

Then Moses commands the Levites to REPLACE the Towrah/Torah written/decreed by Moses with Allah?s Sura?s (Hebrew shiyr/ /shuwr Arabic Root Sura) and place the Sura?s in the ?Ark of The Covenant?.

Deu 3125 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,

Deu 3126 Take this book of the law/instruction, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

Moses then RECANTED his previous words and instructed the people of Israel in the guidance of Allah

Deu 3130 And Moses spoke in the ears of all the congregation of Israel the words of THIS Song/Sura (Hebrew shiyr/ /shuwr Arabic Root Sura), until they were ended.

Muslimtruthrevealed

Assalaam Alaikum

Continuing with the formation of the 'Torah' (NOT to be confused with the Tawrat from Quran)

The Torah that Moses wrote and gave to the priests, rabbis and scholars was deemed by Allah non sensical and irrelevant and Allah thus replaced or supplanted the 'Torah' with Sura's from Al Kitab.

Deu 319 And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel.

The Quran will CONFIRM that Mose's and 'the priests, the sons of Levi, ALL the elders of Israel" got it wrong!

Why do not the teachers of divine knowledge and the doctors of Law forbid them from their (habit of) uttering sinful words and eating things forbidden? Evil indeed are their works.

Unfortunately even though Mose's conveyed the true guidance of Allah to the people they still rejected....

Deu 3122 Moses therefore wrote / decreed this song/sura (Hebrew shiyr/ /shuwr Arabic Root Sura) the same day, and taught it the children of Israel.

Deu 3126 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

Even AFTER the covenant was established with the CORRECT Guidance, Moses knew they would still reject guidance...

Deu 3127 For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?

Deu 3128 Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them.

Deu 3129 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt , and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.

Quranic Confirmation that they are expecting to abide by the OLD 'Torah'.....but REJECTING the 'Sura' of Al-Kitab that Mose's has told them to follow....

When the truth came to them from OUR nearness , they said? why is not given similar as that was given to MOOSA/MOSES, (Old Torah, the one they created) and they are rejecting (Al-Kitab) which was given to MOOSA/MOSES from before.? They said ?these two are destroying falsehood (Old Torah & Bible) with the truth by supporting and confirming each other.? And they said ?surely we reject both of them.?

As a result they are STILL...

Then woe to those who WRITE/RECORD THEIR/THE BOOK with their own hands and they say, this is from Allah, to traffic with it for a miserable price! woe to them for what THEIR HANDS DO WRITE, and the gain they make thereby.

Allah informs us about these types of people...

O Messenger! let not those grieve you, who race each other into unbelief. (whether it be) among those who say "We believe" with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Hadoo,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to you. They change the words from their times and places. they say, "If you are given this, take it, but if not, beware!" If any one's trial is intended by Allah, you have no authority in the least for him against Allah. For such - it is not Allah's will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment.

To be continued....

unknownuser

Salam,
MTR your posts in this thread are based on many misunderstandings and/or outright lies.

Point One

Exodus 1249?..One law / towrah shall be to him that is native / 'ezrach (to Israel), and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

The Torah is ONLY relevant to those Jews in Israel. 'ezrach means to 'come from the soil, that land'

Wrong.

Exodus 1249 actually states the opposite of what you are claiming.
There is to be ONE law for beni Isreal and the stranger in the land.
ONE law for all.
This is also restated in several other verses

Leviticus 2422
Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country for I the LORD your God.

Numbers 1515
One ordinance for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth , an ordinance for ever in your generations as ye , so shall the stranger be before the LORD.
Numbers 1516
One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

'Prophets' (native) to Israel

These 'Prophets' served with various 'rulers' and 'kings'

Samuel, Nathan, Gad, Ahijah, Iddo, Azariah , Hanani, Jehu, Jahaziel, Elijah, Micaiah, Eliezer, Zechariah, Elisha, Isaiah, Hosea, Amos, Micah, Jonah, Oded, Huldah, Zephaniah, Jeremiah, Uriah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Haggai, Zechariah, Obadiah, Joel, Nahum, Habakkuk, Malachi

Compare these 'Prophets' with the Prophets of the Quran

I don't know what your point is here? There are prophets in the Quran and the Tanakh that were Kings. So what? Are you trying to say that working with or being a King is some kind of transgression?

Point Two

The 'Torah' as attributed to Moses / Muusa was lost and destroyed, ponder 1 KING 1425-26 AND DEUTERONOMY 311-30

First of all those two passages took place hundreds of years apart. So why would you claim that the Torah was lost/destroyed in the time of Moses (estimated roughly 1500bc), and the time of Jehoram (estimated roughly 849 bc)? That doesn't make sense.

Deu 311 And Moses went and spake these words unto all Israel.

Moses begins telling the people of Israel about the blessings Allah will bestow upon them, how they will oppress and conquer people.

Deu 313 The LORD thy God, he will go over before thee, he will destroy these nations from before thee, and thou shalt possess them Joshua, he shall go over before thee, as the LORD hath said.

Moses then documents (writes) these instructions and prophecies and commands the people to follow them.

Deu 319 And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel.

Deu 3111 When all Israel is come to appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing.
Deu 3112 Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God, and observe to do all the words of this law

These passages are a combination of prophecy (foretelling of future events) and commandments. This is easy to see when one reads them.
http//www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Deu&c=31&v=1&t=KJV#top

But wait a minute.......

Allah,swt suddenly makes an appearance!!!

Allah,swt tells Mose's 'excuse me, lets put an end to what you just told the people, I have something to tell you, go get Joshua, gather all your people, I have something to say" Cheesy

Deu 3114 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thy days approach that thou must die call Joshua, and present yourselves in the tabernacle of the congregation, that I may give him a charge. And Moses and Joshua went, and presented themselves in the tabernacle of the congregation.

To be continued........ Grin

o WOW when you decide to create lies you really go all out!

Deuteronomy 3114
And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thy days approach that thou must die call Joshua, and present yourselves in the tabernacle of the congregation, that I may give him a charge. And Moses and Joshua went, and presented themselves in the tabernacle of the congregation.

God appeared to tell Moses that it is the end of his life. There is NO referrence to God disagreeing with what Moses said, in fact he concurs with it. Read the verses and you can see this in any language.

MTR I seriously question your ability to comprehend verses of any scripture.

Salam,
Arnab

unknownuser

As we continue to show the formation and development of the 'Torah' (NOT to be confused with the Tawrat of the Quran) from the Biblical references.

Lets review what has been established thus far

Point One

Exodus 1249?..One law / towrah shall be to him that is native / 'ezrach (to Israel), and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

The Torah is ONLY relevant to those Jews in Israel. 'ezrach means to 'come from the soil, that land'

I've already proved you wrong on this fictional understanding of this "point" here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597369.msg185556#msg185556

Point Two

The 'Torah' as attributed to Moses / Muusa was lost and destroyed, ponder 1 KING 1425-26 AND DEUTERONOMY 311-30

Allah has 'appeared'....'uuh oh someone is in trouble'.... scared

No, Moses was about to die. I don't know why you can't read this.

Deu 3115 And the LORD appeared in the tabernacle in a pillar of a cloud and the pillar of the cloud stood over the door of the tabernacle.

Allah corrects Moses and tells him what will become of those in Israel...

Deu 3116 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.

If you had actually READ Deuteronomy you would see that this prophecy is repeated often by Moses and God. God CONCURS with what Moses said. This is a prophecy A foretelling of future events.

In Deu 313 ? 315 Moses spoke for Allah and misinformed the people of Israel suggesting that Allah will ?destroy these nations from before thee, and thou shalt possess them ? but Allah now CORRECTS Moses and informs the people of Israel as to their future?.

Deu 3117 Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God not among us?

Deu 3118 And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.

Deuteronomy 31 can be read here http//www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Deu&c=31&v=1&t=KJV#comm/14 in English.

Deut 313
The LORD thy God, he will go over before thee, he will destroy these nations from before thee, and thou shalt possess them Joshua, he shall go over before thee, as the LORD hath said.

Deut 314
And the LORD shall do unto them as he did to Sihon and to Og, kings of the Amorites, and unto the land of them, whom he destroyed.

Deut 315
And the LORD shall give them up before your face, that ye may do unto them according unto all the commandments which I have commanded you.

Deuteronomy 313-5 is talking about nations that will be destroyed in the battles ahead and how Joshua was going to help lead them and specifically which nations were going to be destroyed. This is not the same thing that is referrenced in Deut 3116-18. Because in the verses 3116-18 God is informing the Isrealites what will happen when they transgress after the battle and they have possessed the land etc etc

Lets read the verses

Deu 3116 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.

Deu 3117 Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us?

Deu 3118 And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.

Deu 3119 Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of Israel put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.

Deu 3120 For when I shall have brought them into the land which I swore unto their fathers, that floweth with milk and honey; and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxen fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and provoke me, and break my covenant.

Deu 3121 And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I swore.

Deu 3122 Moses therefore wrote this song the same day, and taught it the children of Israel.

Deu 3123 And he gave Joshua the son of Nun a charge, and said, Be strong and of a good courage for thou shalt bring the children of Israel into the land which I swore unto them and I will be with thee.

Deu 3124 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,

Deu 3125 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bore the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,

Deu 3126 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

Deu 3127 For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?

Deu 3128 Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them.

Deu 3129 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.

Deu 3130 And Moses spoke in the ears of all the congregation of Israel the words of this song, until they were ended.

As we can see, Moses included the song of that God told him to write and INCLUDED it in the writings. There was nothing abrogated, nothing God disagreed with, nothing destroyed.

Quranic Confirmation
"Will you call upon Baal and forsake the Best of Creators,-

Yes, Baal was one of the gods that some transgressed and called upon. Baal is not specifically mentioned in Deuteronomy 31 but he is mentioned elsewhere in the Tanakh. I can see how 37125 loosely relates...but not exactly directly.

Allah instructs the People of Israel to ?write? or ?record? the ?song? the Hebrew word is ?shiyr?, pronounced like ?sheer? means to proclaim something to someone, speak or celebrate someone/something as if it were a song/melodic.

Its Hebrew root is /shuwr pronounced like the word ?sure-(a), equivalent to the Arabic Root Sura

Deu 3119 Now therefore write ye this song/sura (Hebrew shiyr/ /shuwr Arabic Root Sura) for you, and teach it the children of Israel put it in their mouths, that this song/sura may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.

Allah has REPLACED that which Moses wrote/decreed as ?Towrah/Torah with shiyr/shuwr (Hebrew shiyr / /shuwr Arabic Root Sura)..i.e. Sura?s

Deu 3122 Moses therefore wrote / decreed this song/sura the same day, and taught it the children of Israel.

Then Moses commands the Levites to REPLACE the Towrah/Torah written/decreed by Moses with Allah?s Sura?s (Hebrew shiyr/ /shuwr Arabic Root Sura) and place the Sura?s in the ?Ark of The Covenant?.

The song was an addition.... and that song is found in Deuteronomy 32 http//www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Deu&c=32&v=1&t=KJV

Obviously you have not educated yourself enough on the subject and are confusing yourself and others.

Salam,
Arnab

unknownuser