Verses on Homosexuality
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"And Lot, when he said to his people Do you commit foul deeds, while you see? Will you come after men lustfully rather than women? Nay, you are a people who act ignorantly." Surah 2754-55
My humble understanding of those verses takes other verses regarding Lot?s nation into consideration. You can?t have sex with any woman even if you?re a guy. The woman a straight man has sex with has to be his wife and so when Lot said ?You have sex with the men instead of the women!? he meant that his people were wrong to cheat on their wives. This understanding is confirmed by the following verse
26166 ?And you leave what your Lord has created for you of mates? You are an intrusive people!?
God says so.
I?ve reason to believe It doesn?t.
As for the Torah telling us to kill our children if they become too much of a sinful burden, I present yourself as a perfect example of such a child.
That doesn?t answer my question. Should we follow the Torah?s commandments to kill foul-mouthed children?
Surah 1865-82, specifically 80.
The being who killed that boy couldn?t have been a real man. I think he was imaginary and that the story is merely a parable. Oh and it?s very cheap to hint that I ought to be killed.
The god doesn?t command or tolerate evil and so no one acting on the god?s orders would kill an innocent boy
728 And if they commit evil acts, they say ?We found our fathers doing such, and God ordered us to it.? Say ?God does not order evil! Do you say about God what you do not know??
Same-sex relations are a perversion to God. God said it is,
Really? Show us verses and put forth a good argument in support of your belief.
I have every right to choose who comes around me and my child. I have every right to choose who I associate with and who I do not.
I was never disputing any of that. I clearly said that you do have the right to pick your friends and believe what you want to.
As well, we are taught in the Quran to not take unbelievers as friends.
Let?s look at what the quran really says
608-9 God does not forbid you from those who have not fought you because of your system, nor drove you out of your homes, that you deal kindly and equitably with them. For God loves the equitable. But God does forbid you regarding those who fought you because of your system, and drove you out of your homes, and helped to drive you out. You shall not ally with them. Those who ally with them, then such are the transgressors.
This 'open discussion', sodomite, about all sorts of sexual acts has no place in a public venue.
You say that like it?s a good thing. I think it?s a shame that people don?t have the patience, the courage and the maturity to discuss these things openly.
If you wish to get your perverse jollies speaking of such acts, then do it in private messages. We are taught to act modestly, to not be a hindrance to others.
This discussion is a hindrance to you because you?ve chosen to let it be a hindrance to you. Many of my opponents in this debate haven?t been ?hindered? by this discussion at all, and even if they have, they?ve had the good sense and the maturity not to let it show. Perhaps you should learn from them.
The rest of your message is full of ad hominem attacks against me and sanctimonious horseshit so I will not condescend to respond to any of it.
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Ummm, no. You can always try to be an astronaut again and again. And there are other careers too that you can choose instead of having kids so why not choose them instead?
So what? What if you spend the time it takes to raise kids and all that and train people to be astronauts instead?
Dicto simpliciter (sweeping generalization) logical fallacy. There are adopted kids who love their foster parents more than some kids love their biological parents.
Indeed. You can do so much if you decide not to have kids. Kids are expensive, you can?t get much sleep because of them and they drive you up the wall. And not all of them turn out fine. Even kids that are raised in the best homes can become horrible people.
Sperms are potential babies so when they?re wasted, potential babies are wasted.
Well said. Since kids are a combination of DNA, biology and upbringing, not having kids isn?t wasted potential. It?s just wasted sperms and eggs. You?ve inadvertently debunked your own argument.
I disagree. You're a human being with or without upbringing. And when you argue against kids - you are arguing against humanity, and thus morality itself. I don't think you have any clear idea of what you believe in, you're just against any suggestion that the political status quo which says sexuality doesn't matter might be wrong.
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I disagree. You're a human being with or without upbringing.
I said "Kids are a combination of DNA, biology and upbringing". I assumed it was clear that by "upbringing", I meant that a kid is created only when it is conceived.
And when you argue against kids
I'm doing no such thing. Please don't put words in my mouth.
- you are arguing against humanity, and thus morality itself.
I've already addressed this illogical argument. You're free to believe that humans who don't exist are humans with human rights, but please realize that such a belief isn't very smart.
I don't think you have any clear idea of what you believe in,
What makes you think that?
you're just against any suggestion that the political status quo which says sexuality doesn't matter might be wrong.
I'm open to the possibility that it might be wrong, but thus far I see no reason to accept that it's wrong.
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Salam,
I am new to this topic.
Surely the best way for a homosexual to prove that one can be righteous and gay at the same time is to behave righteously, give to charity, offer help etc
The only gay person I know is quite deceitful and a regular backbiter...this is probaby a very bad example, lol.My biological knowledge isnt very good, but if one is born homosexual then wont the gene have slowly dissapeared due to natural selection??
Thanks,
Peace -
peace all,
This topic has been discussed in a lot of detail in the past, so I'm sure I will just be repeating what has already been said, but
My understanding is as follows
The Quranic ruling on homosexuality is that one can be homosexual but cannot participate in proven/clear/evident/public homosexual acts (e.g. homosexual sex). If they do, they can be punished according to Quranic guidelines. If they commit homosexual acts in private, no action in this life can be taken against them, but of course, what happens to them in the next life is up to God and would likely involve punishment.
Thus, the best course of action for a homosexual person would be to remain chaste (unless their situation changes). Similar to a heterosexual person remaining chaste until (if) they get married.
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peace all,
This topic has been discussed in a lot of detail in the past, so I'm sure I will just be repeating what has already been said, but
My understanding is as follows
The Quranic ruling on homosexuality is that one can be homosexual but cannot participate in proven/clear/evident/public homosexual acts (e.g. homosexual sex). If they do, they can be punished according to Quranic guidelines. If they commit homosexual acts in private, no action in this life can be taken against them, but of course, what happens to them in the next life is up to God and would likely involve punishment.
Thus, the best course of action for a homosexual person would be to remain chaste (unless their situation changes). Similar to a heterosexual person remaining chaste until (if) they get married.
Society is not concerned if someone is doing secretly, however if two males indulge in in visible manner then
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peace all,
This topic has been discussed in a lot of detail in the past, so I'm sure I will just be repeating what has already been said, but
My understanding is as follows
The Quranic ruling on homosexuality is that one can be homosexual but cannot participate in proven/clear/evident/public homosexual acts (e.g. homosexual sex). If they do, they can be punished according to Quranic guidelines. If they commit homosexual acts in private, no action in this life can be taken against them, but of course, what happens to them in the next life is up to God and would likely involve punishment.
Thus, the best course of action for a homosexual person would be to remain chaste (unless their situation changes). Similar to a heterosexual person remaining chaste until (if) they get married.
I agree with Wakas on this.
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If they commit homosexual acts in private, no action in this life can be taken against them, but of course, what happens to them in the next life is up to God and would likely involve punishment.
Thus, the best course of action for a homosexual person would be to remain chaste (unless their situation changes). Similar to a heterosexual person remaining chaste until (if) they get married.
Does that seem reasonable?
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I've already addressed this illogical argument. You're free to believe that humans who don't exist are humans with human rights, but please realize that such a belief isn't very smart.
You seem to see no use in them existing. If as you say - "Kids are a combination of DNA, biology and upbringing" - then it is still the case that wasting these three parts, failing to contribute, is wasted potential. Talking about astronauts doesn't change this.
Since you said "not having kids isn?t wasted potential" - that does suggest you think very little of human procreation.
I see Islam really being about making use of what God has given us. I mean, it is true the bible mentions the story of God destroying Sodom once, whilst the Quran seems to mention it again and again and again, chapter after chapter, obsessively! And whilst the bible is generic about the reasons the city was destroyed, the Quran is specific -
And Lot, he said to his people ?Do you commit lewdness such as none of those of the worlds had done before??
?You come to men with desire instead of women; you are a transgressing people.?I'm not a fundamentalist, I think this story is a metaphore, not a historical event. But where there is smoke, there is fire, where did the Prophet's passion come from, in telling this story, repeating it again, and again, and again? It is this issue of wasted human potential, that's what the destruction of the city means. This is the same metaphore Plato uses in The Republic - the city-state symbolises the individual, the person. God destroying the city for its behaviour represents us destroying ourselves, the self annihilation of genetic oblivion.
