Verses on Homosexuality
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As far as enemies to civilization is concerned, like I said before, the easiest way to put it is if all mankind was to turn 'gay' overnight, what would happen to the human race? Whether it is possible or not is besides the point. The fact is in order for mankind to continue, male and female need to procreate. If we give up his fundamental right, natural course and way of life, mankind will cease to exist. Period. There is no super science required in order to understand this simple concept.
We seem to not understand each other here. As I've said before, being homosexual doesn't mean they do not want children, on top of that it doesn't mean they do not have the ability to have children. Human beings will not cease to exist as long as that need exist and their parts still function. Spartan, Greek society functioned in this manner, they recognise the need to produce issues despite a liberal approach to sexuality. You do not give up your "fundamental right, natural course and way of life" upon realising you are not attracted to the opposite sex. You are posturing on "what ifs", here I present to you another likely scenario and in a strange, pompous way you shoot it down despite not knowing what the world be like either. In any case, I do not see any sense in that rhetoric as it is not happening any time soon and will not. Logic, mister. And even if it does happen, it will be because God stated it to be so and then how are you going to argue with that?
Being 'gay' or homosexual is an individual choice made after birth and not a condition which is determined in the womb or foetus before being born. You might be gullible to the 'so called' studies and research, but not me.
The greatest minds have been denounced through the years by ignorant religious folk who refuse to accept science. I prefer to accept concrete evidence as opposed to the baseless beliefs of another person. It is the same reason I left Sunni Islam, it is the same way I approach many things in life. Agree to disagree, alright?
You can shout at the top of your voice until the cows come home regarding homosexuality being 'normal'. When the sublime reality, course of nature, Islam and God states it is not!
Brother, I don't have to shout, I know that once you let knowledge out and still people revel in ignorance it's time to let go and move on. Let's just see how it's gonna be like in the Afterlife, eh? And what God truly feels about the matter.
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Strotu
Many thanks for your response.
I do agree that we can agree to disagree. I am no religious nut and neither am I a subscriber to Darwin's Evolutionary Theory either. Islam is a way of life where Science and Religion are compatible with each other and gives us the opportunity o get the balance right. What I am saying is that Homosexuality is not compatible with Islam or any of the other major Faiths for that matter.
Finally, the last sentence concerning shouting at the top of your voice was not for you. It was intended for Supernaut.
Peace
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Strotu
Many thanks for your response.
I do agree that we can agree to disagree. I am no religious nut and neither am I a subscriber to Darwin's Evolutionary Theory either. Islam is a way of life where Science and Religion are compatible with each other and gives us the opportunity o get the balance right. What I am saying is that Homosexuality is not compatible with Islam or any of the other major Faiths for that matter.
Finally, the last sentence concerning shouting at the top of your voice was not for you. It was intended for Supernaut.
Peace
Actually the scientific method came from the quran... so...
It was people like the above that tried to destroy Islam.
They made the feminine male go after the male, and they promoted it.
When it's evident for everyone, that the feminine male has his partner in the masculine female, these same evil minded indivudals promoted sugar coated misery for such males and females.
That's why I'm a... gay against same sexi.
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Peace FAR,
It was people like the above that tried to destroy Islam.
Do you mean people like me? I wish I could destroy Orthodox Islam, which is irrational, ridiculous and unscientific, but islam (peacemaking) will always stay because it is the "religion" every human is naturally inclined to (3030).
They made the feminine male go after the male, and they promoted it.
When it's evident for everyone, that the feminine male has his partner in the masculine female
Are straight men attracted to straight women because they like the shape of their brains? No. Gay men can't like lesbian women even though they have masculine brains because people are attracted to other people's bodies and not their brains. Please forgive me, but your argument is downright ridiculous!
these same evil minded indivudals promoted sugar coated misery for such males and females.
What makes them "evil minded"? So far no one who's against homosexuality has provided even one good reason why homosexuality is evil. Homophobia is no different from racism because homophobia, like racism, is hating certain people for something they have no control over. Perhaps homophobes will realize this one day.
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Supernaut
My dear friend. You seem to be living in cloud cuckoo land. Homosexuality is controllable, is not a condition determined prior to birth and cannot thus be compared to racism. Homosexuals are the enemies to civilization and are much worse than racists, bigots, sexists, homophobics and any other form of ics' or ists'. Why? Because Homosexuals have a vendetta and hatred towards all mankind by practising an act which will not procreate the human race and due to the perverted attraction to the same sex, you have no concerns for your fellow human race. Anyway, regardless of what I say or the majority of the world says, you will never agree on the sin of homosexuality.
The Qur'an makes it abundantly clear on the evils of homosexuality. Whether you accept it or not is your problem and not mine or anyone else's. Just refrain from trying to attach it to Islam and pretend it is something normal, right and within the scopes of the Deen.
Peace
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Supernaut
My dear friend. You seem to be living in cloud cuckoo land. Homosexuality is controllable, is not a condition determined prior to birth and cannot thus be compared to racism. Homosexuals are the enemies to civilization and are much worse than racists, bigots, sexists, homophobics and any other form of ics' or ists'. Why? Because Homosexuals have a vendetta and hatred towards all mankind by practising an act which will not procreate the human race and due to the perverted attraction to the same sex, you have no concerns for your fellow human race. Anyway, regardless of what I say or the majority of the world says, you will never agree on the sin of homosexuality.
The Qur'an makes it abundantly clear on the evils of homosexuality. Whether you accept it or not is your problem and not mine or anyone else's. Just refrain from trying to attach it to Islam and pretend it is something normal, right and within the scopes of the Deen.
Peace
Salaam,
Thankyou zulu1,,, well said...
Please realise Supernaut that it is ok to have these feelings. That is normal. Your choice to act upon them, if you do, is a choice you make. And that is why we say it is controllable. Many people in the west act upon these feelings due to their wrong understanding. Their minds are confused and programmed by the media and society they live in which drills into them that homosexuality is ok, uncontrollable, and denying it means you are living a lie.
Thousands (if not millions) of people in Middle Eastern countries have similar feelings. Only a tiny percentage are homosexual though. The others control their feelings and never act upon them. Why?
Well, some understand that it is wrong, sinful, unnatural, selfish, uncontributing to society. Others however choose to control these feelings despite their intention to act upon them due to fear of execution, arrest, torture and abuse. (Iran, U.A.E, and KSA are a few examples). It does work but I disagree with this approach. These individuals should be made to understand that their actions must be kept private. There will be no such thing as civil partnerships, adoption, gay tv, gay pride, and all the other sickness.
However, homosexuality is not a special case. In U.A.E for example a heterosexual british couple were arrested and deported for having sex on a public beach.
Regards
Ramzi
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Peace FAR,
Do you mean people like me? I wish I could destroy Orthodox Islam, which is irrational, ridiculous and unscientific, but islam (peacemaking) will always stay because it is the "religion" every human is naturally inclined to (3030).
You weren't above on my page.
Are straight men attracted to straight women because they like the shape of their brains? No. Gay men can't like lesbian women even though they have masculine brains because people are attracted to other people's bodies and not their brains. Please forgive me, but your argument is downright ridiculous!
Yes and some people realize they aren't attracted to that same body they were once fornicating with. If you believe the homosexual or even the heterosexual is so shallow... sir, please remember that fornication is not an option. And most same sexers do not get married.
What makes them "evil minded"? So far no one who's against homosexuality has provided even one good reason why homosexuality is evil. Homophobia is no different from racism because homophobia, like racism, is hating certain people for something they have no control over. Perhaps homophobes will realize this one day.
I have already explained that I am a homosexual that understood the Andrea Dworkin's model, which is closer to the Quranic method than "orthodox" practices. Those people who do not wish to recognize the homosexual people, will obviously promote that either they coform to society's notions of same sexism or living with heterosexuals partners. Neither method works for us.
That's why I'm homosexual against same sex (No one is ready for the term 'same sexism'
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My dear friend. You seem to be living in cloud cuckoo land. Homosexuality is controllable, is not a condition determined prior to birth and cannot thus be compared to racism.
Of course. You're right because... you just are. Forget all the science that says otherwise because science is logical, objective and verifiable. Who needs that kind of nonsense? What chance does that kind of nonsense have against your esteemed opinion?
Homosexuals are the enemies to civilization and are much worse than racists, bigots, sexists, homophobics and any other form of ics' or ists'. Why? Because Homosexuals have a vendetta and hatred towards all mankind by practising an act which will not procreate the human race and due to the perverted attraction to the same sex
And sterile people are just as bad. Shame on sterile people because they're trying to end the human race. Shame on people with genetic disorders too because they can pass on their genetic disorders to their kids and thus weaken the human race. Sterile people and people with genetic disorders are "much worse than racists, bigots, sexists, homophobics and any other form of ics' or ists'".
you have no concerns for your fellow human race.
Neither do people with genetic disorders nor sterile people.
Anyway, regardless of what I say or the majority of the world says, you will never agree on the sin of homosexuality.
Oh no, you've shown me the light hail
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Peace FAR,
Yes and some people realize they aren't attracted to that same body they were once fornicating with. If you believe the homosexual or even the heterosexual is so shallow... sir, please remember that fornication is not an option. And most same sexers do not get married.
Why do you think they don?t get married?
I have already explained that I am a homosexual that understood the Andrea Dworkin's model, which is closer to the Quranic method than "orthodox" practices. Those people who do not wish to recognize the homosexual people, will obviously promote that either they coform to society's notions of same sexism or living with heterosexuals partners. Neither method works for us.
Forgive me, but I don?t understand what you mean by that.
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This thread is getting sad. At first it was amusing, and then it's just sad.
Most homosexuals don't get married because in a lot of places...THEY CAN'T.
Andrea Dworkin. She held misandrist views and was more known for her anti-pornography stance, her radical feminism and, unfortunately, her bizarre claims of being raped in Paris.
Second, being a lesbian means to me that there is an erotic passion and intimacy which comes of touch and taste, a wild, salty tenderness, a wet sweet sweat, our breasts, our mouths, our cunts, our intertangled hairs, our hands. I am speaking here of a sensual passion as deep and mysterious as the sea, as strong and still as the mountain, as insistent and changing as the wind. --"Lesbian Pride" from "Our Blood Prophecies and Discourses on Sexual Politics"
Doesn't sound like she was opposed to homosexual sex. At least for lesbians. Let me remind you, she didn't like men much. The man she married is gay, John Stoltenberg in some ways, denies his manhood, subscribing to Dworkin's beliefs. Always it is about male aggression and dominace; in a homosexual relationships, the only way to explain it, according to her, is that the 'bottom' is a feminised male used by the 'top' much in the same way heterosexual sex is like rape.
As long as male sexuality is expressed as force or violence, men as a class will continue to enforce the taboo against male homosexuality to protect themselves from having that force or violence directed against them. Women will be their surrogates, and every institution in the society will continue to demand that men do to women what men would find insufferable if done to themselves. -- from "Pornography Men and Boys"
However, she also says this.
We must move away from the perverse, two-dimensional definitions which stem from sexual repression, which are the source of social oppression, and move toward creative, full, multidimensional modes of sexual expression.--from "Woman Hating"Make what you will of it.
Homosexuals are the enemies to civilization and are much worse than racists, bigots, sexists, homophobics and any other form of ics' or ists'. Why? Because Homosexuals have a vendetta and hatred towards all mankind by practising an act which will not procreate the human race and due to the perverted attraction to the same sex, you have no concerns for your fellow human race.
Heterosexuals, by virtue of the sheer number and prevalence, have done much of the damage to the human race without the need for help from deviant sexualities. But does that make them evil because of their sexuality? NO. The enemies to civilisation are hatred, fear and ignorance. I am disgusted by your claim that homosexuals are worser than racists, who have killed numerous people (can you compare the statistical damage of homosexuals whatever the hell that is, to the damage wrought by genocides?), the bigots (hey remember September 11, the Inquisition, the Zionists?), sexists (by your claim this would mean that the deaths of innocent women at the hands of misogynists are insignificant compared to the mere existence of homosexuals) and various other forms out of the combination of hatred, fear and ignorance.
Let me come up with a list. By your reasoning, all these people have done damage to humanity
Helen Keller, author
Annie Sullivan, H. Keller's teacher
Mother Teresa, nun
Florence Nightingale, pioneer in nursing
Harriet Tubman, humanitarian
Dr. Elizabeth Blackwell, first female doctor
Ludwig Van Beethoven, composer
Mahmoud Darwish, Palestinian poet
Leonardo Da Vinci, polymath extraordinaire possibly the greatest genius
Emily Dickinson, poet
T.S. Eliot, poet
Cecil Green, philanthropist/geophysicist
Howard Harold Hanson, Pulitzer Prize-winning composer
Georg Friedrich Handel, composer
Sir Isaac Newton, scientist
Linus Pauling, scientist
Wislawa Szymborska, Nobel Prize-winning poet
Nikola Tesla, inventorJust a short one. All these people have no children and a few of those are possibly asexuals (note, no sexual attraction, hence possibly, by your reasoning, even more evil than homosexuals). I reckon, they have done more for humanity and civilisation than you can ever hope to do. Which is what, merely reproducing your genes? My apologies if you are actually a brilliant scientist/poet/humanitarian/artist/philanthropist in training.
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Peace,
To say Homosexuals are the enemy of humanity because they do not produce children is the weirdest of them all. The earth is over-populated and there will be not enough resources on earth for everybody, even if all resources would be handed out equally. Most scientists agree that we must cut down the birth rates if we want to stabilize mankind and its enviroment.
Second, the argument would fail if every homosexual still would create a child, but remain gay after the child is born.
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To say Homosexuals are the enemy of humanity because they do not produce children is the weirdest of them all. The earth is over-populated and there will be not enough resources on earth for everybody, even if all resources would be handed out equally. Most scientists agree that we must cut down the birth rates if we want to stabilize mankind and its enviroment.
Second, the argument would fail if every homosexual still would create a child, but remain gay after the child is born.
Although I do not agree with the claim that homosexuality is a enemy of humanity, I still find your justification that the earth is over populated unucceptable. It's not for us to worry about the "rizg" of people. (Not that I am aginst fmily planning, but this is not because the earth is overpopulated, but for the family concerned An individual welfare). The earth's resources are not scarce but are badly distributed. There is still great potential yet to be digged out by future knowledge.
What if there was no homosexuality? Should we introduce it to fix the problem of overpopulation? Should we condone wars because they help reduce earth population? Should we stop fighting disease and mitigating disasters?
In my belief, homosexuality is not always a choice (it's definitely a choice in the case of bisexuals). There are many factors that make someone homosexual. This intself is not unaccepted by the religion in my opinion, until they start acting upon it (having homosexual sex). They are not different from heterosexuals having sex outside the marriage.
I do not understand why homosexuality should take all this credit as if homosexuals are the only people who are not supposed/ cannot have access to heterosexual sex there are those with congenital deformity, with organic or psychlogical conditions that prohibit them from having sex, the impotent whether primary or secondary..etc. Do they search for homosexual sex or are they advised to do so? No. God asks them to be patient (425), or marry those who accept their case. I believe that verse 424 has a shift of address to those homo and others who are unable to have sex with the opposite sex they are prohibited from marrying the "mu7sins those who can have sex with the opposite sex" except when those mu7sin agree to be their milku yameen. This kind of "marriage, in my opinion, is what is called (milkul yameen) each one of the pair is "milku yameen" the other. Vers 425 is even more explicit Whoever is unable to marry the mu7sins (wrongly understood as by poverty. God has already advised to marry the poor If they are poor, God will make them rich), then marry milku yameen. This is the only case where the family should be involved because of such sex-less marriage. -
Strotu
My dear friend. Unfortunately, you seem to be missing the point. Yes, the majority of damage that has been done to the world has been by hetrosexuals and it has also been done in the name of religion. However, on the same token, the greatest feats carried out in the world and benefit to the world have also been done by hetrosexuals and not homosexuals. So if you are going to pick faults with hetrosexuals, I suggest you look at the pro's and con's in order to balance out your argument.
Now, even after the atrocities 'hetrosexual' man has committed in the world, mankind has continued it's existence through procreation. Not by homosexuality. Homosexuality cannot, I repeat cannot procreate the human race. Let's not beat about the bush here. The first pregnancy achieved through in vitro human fertilisation of a human oocyte has only been developed this century. Even then, sperm from man and egg from woman is required. So the question that begs to be answered is how has the human race continued in Homosexual communities when they have quite clearly given up the right to procreation? You know the answer.
The most important sanctity on the face of the earth regardless of creed, colour, religion and sexual orientation is LIFE. If one forfeits their right to give life through procreation, how can they be classified as humanitarian, just, compassionate and normal. Homosexuals , through a choice of their own, take this path of enemyship to mankind. Nobody forces them to take this stance but themselves. They prefer to give up the opportunity to continue the life cycle in return for their own lusts and sexual preferences. Most racists, bigots, sexists etc etc determine their actions and stance primarily out of fear and ignorance in the first instance. They believe their superiority by attaching one fault or another from the victims end. However, when you decide to take the most important sancity (life) the right of life away from life itself. Who is worse? 'ists or homosexuals.
The list of people you have given in your post would never have seen the light of day and neither would you with all due respect, if the parents had been homosexual! They came into this world through procreation and not homosexuality. Regardless of what they did or did not do. Humanitarian or Non Humanitarian is besides the point. What looks like 6 to you, can look like 9 to me depending on our position.
Nothing is more precious than life apart from life itself.
Peace
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Strotu
My dear friend. Unfortunately, you seem to be missing the point. Yes, the majority of damage that has been done to the world has been by hetrosexuals and it has also been done in the name of religion. However, on the same token, the greatest feats carried out in the world and benefit to the world have also been done by hetrosexuals and not homosexuals. So if you are going to pick faults with hetrosexuals, I suggest you look at the pro's and con's in order to balance out your argument.
Now, even after the atrocities 'hetrosexual' man has committed in the world, mankind has continued it's existence through procreation. Not by homosexuality. Homosexuality cannot, I repeat cannot procreate the human race. Let's not beat about the bush here. The first pregnancy achieved through in vitro human fertilisation of a human oocyte has only been developed this century. Even then, sperm from man and egg from woman is required. So the question that begs to be answered is how has the human race continued in Homosexual communities when they have quite clearly given up the right to procreation? You know the answer.
Peace
A person being a homosexual, does not rule out procreation and that individual avoiding same sexism.
Homosexuals aren't an evil to humanity, it's those that do not recognize them and those that promote them to same sex fornication
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FAR
My friend. From where I come from, this is the definition of homosexual
Main Entry 1ho?mo?sex?u?al
Pronunciation \h-m-sek-sh(-)wl, -sek-shl
Function adjective1 of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex
2 of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sexHow have homosexuals been procreating over the centuries without the use of the opposite sex and how would one avoid same sexism?
Please elaborate.
Peace
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The world only seems to be overpopulated when people do not cooperate. For example, you turn your television on and you see people starving, so you think - Oh No! The world is overpopulated! But in fact, when you look closer, there is no shortage of land. People are starving people instead of farming, they are fighting. It doesn't matter how few people there were in the world. If instead of spending their time growing food, they spent their time fighting, they would still have no food, even if you had the whole continent of Asia all to yourself.
And so when the question is asked "How many children is too many" - the answer depends not upon the population of the world, but upon the capacity of the parents. If the parents love each other, are good and cooperating, if they work well together in earning money and managing the household, then they can have lots of children. Each child will be well educated and will manage to learn a living and be of benefit to society, with the good example of its parents.
If the parents are lazy, if they do not live together, let alone cooperate, and if they fight a lot with each other and other people, it is different. It doesn't matter how empty your country is. If the children are raised badly like this - if they see the example of their father not working, and not supporting their mother, they can only learn that bad behaviour pays, and they will be a burden on society.
Hence this important link to sexuality. Good sexuality is sexuality which encourages the child conceiving and raising couple to love and support each other, and to cooperate, and in the process benefit society. This is why homosexuality doesn't really fit in well - because it does not encourage the two biological parents to stick together and raise the child.
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liquiddharma,
Hence this important link to sexuality. Good sexuality is sexuality which encourages the child conceiving and raising couple to love and support each other, and to cooperate, and in the process benefit society. This is why homosexuality doesn't really fit in well - because it does not encourage the two biological parents to stick together and raise the child.
Huh? You've not shown how sexuality and parenting are connected therefore your argument against homosexuality is a non sequitir. Explain how one's sexuality affect one's parenting skills. Studies show that a person's sexuality has zero bearing on their parenting skills and there's even a tiny bit of evidence that lesbians make the best parents so as per your reasoning, only lesbians should be parents.
And what's this nonsense about being a bad person if you don't have children? What evidence is there in the great reading that the god wants us to reproduce? Humans will reproduce whether or not the god wants them to because it's natural for all organisms to want to pass on their genes.
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It's natural for all organisms to reproduce, including humans, because it's God's will. Forgotten who designed the universe?
Sexuality is important for your parenting skills because it keeps the two parents in the same house feeling positively towards each other. The children benefit from that.