Verses on Homosexuality
-
What are the verses in the Quran that pertain to homosexuality. I've been noticing that many people that I know are becoming pro-gay or tolerant of gays. I think this stems from the fact that you will get a bashing for making fun of homosexuals or expressing your own opinion on how they should not marry. A few years back there was a newspaper article about an interview of a "gay muslim" who said that the Quran was perfectly okay with homosexuality. wow
Also, do you think that people are born with homosexuality and so it is a test from god or do you believe its a "choice."
-
Same sexism is questioned by the god, and perhaps also condemned.
Quran 780-81, 1178-79, 1567, 26165-6, 2754-55, 2928-29
Can't say much about lesbian same sex, but Andrea Dworkin provides a great example which is explained by a Swedish study Symmetry Of Homosexual Brain Resembles That Of Opposite Sex.
I personally believe that a homosexual, is another type of human. Where homosexual males should only marry from homosexual females.
As for etiquette, refer here http//free-minds.org/etiquette
Same sexism itself doesn't provide any benefit to the individual (the marriages are rare or don't last), nor any to the community, nor the greater good, it might feel good... but that's a moot point.
Unless you can find a benefit for same sexism (which I believe you're refering to specifically), only then will people agree to it. Please, no orwellian fakery.
Now when it comes to the community dealing with same sexism, perhaps they'll take the ruling of punishments for adultery/fornication ("zina".
-
Diem,
I think Arnold proved that the god is cool with people of the same sex marrying each other at http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=16791.15
Also, there's considerable evidence that homosexuals are born homosexual
The brains of gay men and women look like those found in heterosexual people of the opposite sex, research suggests.
The Swedish study, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences journal, compared the size of the brain's halves in 90 adults.
Gay men and heterosexual women had halves of a similar size, while the right side was bigger in lesbian women and heterosexual men.
A UK scientist said this was evidence sexual orientation was set in the womb.
Scientists have noticed for some time that homosexual people of both sexes have differences in certain cognitive abilities, suggesting there may be subtle differences in their brain structure.
This is the first time, however, that scientists have used brain scanners to try to look for the source of those differences.
A group of 90 healthy gay and heterosexual adults, men and women, were scanned by the Karolinska Institute scientists to measure the volume of both sides, or hemispheres, of their brain.
When these results were collected, it was found that lesbians and heterosexual men shared a particular "asymmetry" in their hemisphere size, while heterosexual women and gay men had no difference between the size of the different halves of their brain.
In other words, structurally, at least, the brains of gay men were more like heterosexual women, and gay women more like heterosexual men.
A further experiment found that in one particular area of the brain, the amygdala, there were other significant differences.
In heterosexual men and gay women, there were more nerve "connections" in the right side of the amygdala, compared with the left.
The reverse, with more neural connections in the left amygdala, was the case in homosexual men and heterosexual women.
The Karolinska team said that these differences could not be mainly explained by "learned" effects, but needed another mechanism to set them, either before or after birth.
'Fight, flight or mate'
Dr Qazi Rahman, a lecturer in cognitive biology at Queen Mary, University of London, said that he believed that these brain differences were laid down early in foetal development.
"As far as I'm concerned there is no argument any more - if you are gay, you are born gay," he said.
The amygdala, he said, was important because of its role in "orientating", or directing, the rest of the brain in response to an emotional stimulus - be it during the "fight or flight" response, or the presence of a potential mate.
"In other words, the brain network which determines what sexual orientation actually 'orients' towards is similar between gay men and straight women, and between gay women and straight men.
"This makes sense given that gay men have a sexual preference which is like that of women in general, that is, preferring men, and vice versa for lesbian women."
Source http//news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7456588.stm
-
I believe that if you are born gay then it is something of a test from god.
But... what a hard test! I cant imagine living like that.I consider myself homosexual... refer to the study below.
I personally believe, that those who believe, that homosexuals must be those who enter into same sex relationships, are ignorant individuals.
Any logical individual would see that study and agree that homosexual males should marry homosexual females sex. And perhaps the entire population of homosexuals as they grow beyond the age of 4-7 (age of sexual development of desire for females - males) should avoid spending too much time with with the heterosexuals.
-
Peace,
I have friends that use to be like "dude are you a homophobic?" blah blah blah.
Straight up, being gay is a choice.
Is 200 "ex-gays" evidence enough for you?http//www.washingtontimes.com/news/2005/sep/26/20050926-095613-8795r/
now you see the problem is when people start bashing Gay people and insult them.
And we already have an example of how to treat them in the Quran.1178 And his people came rushing towards him, and before it they were committing sin, he said ?My people, these are my daughters, they are purer for you, so be aware of God and do not disgrace me regarding my guests. Is there no sane man among you??
Peace
-
To me Surah 780-81 makes it clear about homosexuality.
And about whether homosexuality is something that people are born with or not...
I personaly don't know if it's something someone is born with or not but I happen to view homosexuality as a disease. If someone claims that they were born homosexual, I'll just take it as face value, just as someone could say that they were born with HIV. And just like HIV, if homosexuals say they contracted their illness later in life (expeople who are straight up until being sentenced to a life in prison), I'll take that at face value as well. This is why I could never subscribe to 'homophobia', because that would be just as senseless as having phobias against people who suffer from cancer, leukemia, HIV, etc. -
I'd prefer to change the meaning of the word "homosexuality" to that of the scientific study by a swedish research group mentioned above.
When it comes to same sex behaviour (same sexism), I would seperate that behaviour from homosexuals.
Even heterosexual individuals (perhaps specifically females) who are highly promiscuous do fornicate with the same sex.
So let's remove the promiscuity label from homosexual people, and recognise that there is a difference.
-
barmack,
Robert L. Spitzer's study's been criticized because his sample consisted of people who'd undergone "conversion therapy" and people from ministries so the sample was restricted and biased and therefore not very representative of most homosexuals. I think criticizing homosexuals for being homosexual (I'm not accusing you of doing that) is akin to racism; people can't help the way they're born. The god isn't despotic and unreasonable. The god is wise and merciful and homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone (except stupid homophobes who choose to be offended by homosexuality) so it goes against reason that the god would begrudge homosexuals their sexuality. Furthermore, Kinsey proposed that not everyone is completely heterosexual or completely homosexual so perhaps people who switch don't really switch. Perhaps they're just exhibiting a different side of their sexuality.
-
-
What are the verses in the Quran that pertain to homosexuality. I've been noticing that many people that I know are becoming pro-gay or tolerant of gays. I think this stems from the fact that you will get a bashing for making fun of homosexuals or expressing your own opinion on how they should not marry. A few years back there was a newspaper article about an interview of a "gay muslim" who said that the Quran was perfectly okay with homosexuality. wow
Also, do you think that people are born with homosexuality and so it is a test from god or do you believe its a "choice."
Peace
It is so insiduous isn't it. Terms such as 'homosexual' and 'anal sex'. These terms equate sodomy and sodomites as the same as 'heterosexual' and 'vaginal sex'. So people become conidtioned to believing the sodomites are just the same as normal people.
If I was to go out eating with you and I pulled down my trousers and started shoving food up my backside and said I am just 'anally eating' whereas you are just 'orally eating' you would consider me mentally unstable and would say that this way of 'eating' serves no intrinsic biological function. What is the difference?
I resent the usage of terms like 'gay' and 'straight', 'anal sex' and 'vaginal sex'. The Quran does not use these terms, but instead used terms such as perversion. Is the story of Lut not an example enough? These people are peverted (despite programs like 'Will and Grace' making out they are harmless eccentrics). Their lifestyle should be opposed. However, the issue of the breakdown of society due to illicit sex is far more of an important issue.
Roshan
-
Peace Roshan,
It is so insiduous isn't it. Terms such as 'homosexual' and 'anal sex'. These terms equate sodomy and sodomites as the same as 'heterosexual' and 'vaginal sex'. So people become conidtioned to believing the sodomites are just the same as normal people.
I don't think it's insidious.
If I was to go out eating with you and I pulled down my trousers and started shoving food up my backside and said I am just 'anally eating' whereas you are just 'orally eating' you would consider me mentally unstable and would say that this way of 'eating' serves no intrinsic biological function. What is the difference?
Plenty. No one really eats with their rear, but it's a fact that some people enjoy anal and oral sex. The fact that anal and oral sex don't serve the purpose of procreation doesn't make them wrong. To say they're wrong because their "unnatural" (which is nonsense anyway) is an appeal to nature logical fallacy.
I resent the usage of terms like 'gay' and 'straight', 'anal sex' and 'vaginal sex'. The Quran does not use these terms, but instead used terms such as perversion.
What is your evidence that the quran (great reading) calls homosexuality and anal sex fahisha?
Is the story of Lut not an example enough?
It isn't an example of the god's supposed hatred for homosexuals in my humble opinion.
These people are peverted (despite programs like 'Will and Grace' making out they are harmless eccentrics).
Why're they perverted?
Their lifestyle should be opposed.
What harm does their lifestyle cause you?
However, the issue of the breakdown of society due to illicit sex is far more of an important issue.
Roshan
I think illicit sex is a complete non-issue compared to self-righteousness, invasiveness and sanctimoniousness. I think muslims should tackle those problems before fretting over what people do in the privacy of their homes.
-
The Qu'ran and Homosexuality
Richard Burton suggests the following Qu'ranic verses as relevant to homosexuality
The texts are from the Qu'ran edition at Virginia Tech's etext collection.
SURA IV 19-21
-
But whoso rebels against God and His Apostle, and transgresses His bounds, He will make him enter into fire, and dwell therein for aye; and for him is shameful woe.
-
Against those of your women who commit adultery, call witnesses four in number from among yourselves; and if these bear witness, then keep the women in houses until death release them, or God shall make for them a way.
-
And if two (men) of you commit it, then hurt them both; but if they turn again and amend, leave them alone, verily, God is easily turned, compassionate.
SURA VII 78-84
-
Then the earthquake took them, and in the morning they lay prone in their dwellings;
-
and he turned away from them and said, 'O my people! I did preach to you the message of my Lord, and I gave you good advice; but ye love not sincere advisers.'
-
And Lot, when he said to his people, 'Do ye approach an abomination which no one in all the world ever anticipated you in?
-
verily, ye approach men with lust rather than women- nay, ye are a people who exceed.'
82.But his people's answer only was to say, 'Turn them out of your village, verily, they are a people who pretend to purity.'
-
But we saved him and his people, except his wife, who was of those who lingered;
-
and we rained down upon them a rain;- see then how was the end of the sinners!
SURA XI 77-84
-
And when our messengers came to Lot, he was grieved for them; but his arm was straitened for them, and he said, 'This is a troublesome day!'
-
And his people came to him, rushing at him, for before that they used to work evil. He 'Said, 'O my people! here are my daughters, they are purer for you; then, fear God, and do not disgrace me through my guests;- is there not among you one right-thinking man?'
-
They said, 'Thou knowest that we have no claim on thy daughters; verily, thou knowest what we want!'
-
He said, 'Had I but power over you; or could I but resort to some strong column....!'
-
(The angels) said, 'O Lot! verily, we are the messengers of thy Lord, they shall certainly not reach thee; then travel with thy people in the darkness of the night, and let none of you look round except thy wife verily, there shall befall her what befalls them. Verily, their appointment is for the morning! and is not the morning nigh?'
-
And when our bidding came, we made their high parts their low parts. And we rained down upon them stones and baked clay one after another,
-
marked, from thy Lord, and these are not so far from the unjust!
-
And unto Midian (we sent) their brother Sho'haib. He said, 'O my people! serve God; ye have no god but Him, and give not short measure and weight. Verily, 'I see you well off; but, verily, I fear for you the torments of an encompassing day.
SURA XXVI 160-174
- The people of Lot called the apostles liars;
161 when their brother Lot said to them, 'Do ye not fear?
-
verily, I am to you a faithful apostle;
-
then fear God and obey me.
164 I do not ask you for it any hire; my hire is only with the Lord of the worlds.
165 Do ye approach males of all the world
166 and leave what God your Lord has created for you of your wives? nay, but ye are people who transgress!'
167 They said, 'Surely, if thou dost not desist, O Lot! thou shalt be of those who are expelled!'
168 Said he, 'Verily, I am of those who hate your deed;
169 my Lord! save me and my people from what they do.'
170 And we saved him and his people all together,
171 except an old woman amongst those who lingered.
172 Then we destroyed the others;
173 and we rained down upon them a rain; and evil was the rain of those who were warned.
174 Verily, in that is a sign; but most of them will never be believers.
175 And, verily, thy Lord He is mighty, merciful, compassionate.
SURA XXIX 28-35
-
And (remmber) Lot when he said to his people, 'Verily, ye approach an abomination which no one in all the world ever anticipated you in!
-
What! do ye approach men? (or Do you commit sexual acts with men?) and stop folks on the highway? And approach in your assembly sin?' but the answer of his people was only to say, 'Bring us God's torment, if thou art of those who speak the truth!'
-
Said he, 'My Lord! help me against a people who do evil!'
-
And when our messengers came to Abraham with the glad tidings, they said, 'We are about to destroy the people of this city. Verily, the people thereof are wrong-doers.'
-
Said he, 'Verily, in it is Lot; they said, 'We know best who is therein; we shall of a surety save him and his people, except his wife, who is of those who linger.'
-
And when our messengers came to Lot, he was vexed for them, and his arm was straitened for them; and they said, 'Fear not, neither grieve; we are about to save thee and thy people, except thy wife, who is of those who linger.
-
Verily, we are about to send down upon the people of this city a horror from heaven, for that they have sinned;
-
and we have left therefrom a manifest sign unto a people who have sense.'
ON THE OTHER HAND
Although the Qu'ran does not have verse explicitly in favor of homosexuality, it does have verses which show awareness of male beauty. These are promises made to Muslim men who make it to Heaven.
SURA LII24
"And there shall wait on them young boys of their own, as fair as virgin pearls."
SURA LXXVI19
"They shall be attended by boys graced with eternal youth, who will seem like scattered pearls to the beholders."
http//www.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/quran-homo.html
-
-
Salaam,
Thanks to the people who posted the verses on homosexuality. The position is very clear in the quran but, unfortunately, those who read it without a clear mind and without good intention will never understand the guidance.
The answer to the question 'are people born gay?' is a very silly question indeed!
It is similar to asking 'are people born liking apples?'
I hope you understand the similarity there; if not, let me try and explain..........
I hope we are all talking about 'gay' in the sense of sexually attracted to the same sex........
If so, then this is a sexual desire, some say that these people were born with it.... is that so?
In the world today, there are 'straight' males who are only sexually attracted to black females. And some males who are only sexually attracted to white females, and would never be able to sleep/date/marry a balck female..... this is due to their sexual desires..... There are also western females who are sexually attracted to Arab males. Are they born with this?
These sexual desires depend on the external influence on the individual.
Suppose a young child goes to watch a film at the cinema with his friends..... and the moment everyone had been waiting for finally comes revealing a stunning latino female on the sunset..... cheers and whistles..... the child is programmed to understand that this image is something special. It sticks in his brain and he imagines himself with the female.... and what if he had a simliar girl as a girlfriend, he would be popular, happy, and the luckiest person in the world...
All of this, slowly forms his sexual desire...... was he born this way? (what if it was a white female on the screen)
A young female would see this image and imagine herself in the same position. To be someone else.... the poor girl is young, overweight, and bullied by friends. She wants to escape, she finds comfort in imagining herself as the latino girl on the screen. And it slowly starts from there. The young girl's hate of herself, leads her to wish/imagine/dream she was someone else. And her sexual desire is slowly built upon this.... eventually she becomes a lesbian........... was she born this way?
Now, this hate we are talking about........ not wanting to be oneself......... develops in someone due to many different circumstances....
Child abuse,
Parents Divorce
Peer pressure
Tv programming (what is popular and what is not)
and many others..............
All these sexual desires can change, again depending on the external influences....
If a young homosexual child is sexually abused and raped by an older male, his (young child) tendencies and desires quickly change.
Unfortunately, in the real world, it works the other way...... an old male abuses a young child, the young child wishes he were some other boy, and he ends up gay.If a young kid's favourite food is fish..... and one day he nearly chokes on a fish bone. What happens? He totally goes off fish.
I hope I made this clear.
Everyone is born with a clear mind eager to learn and develop depending on the social conditions it is put in.
A child born in Africa, into a poor family, will have different characteristics, goals, manners, happiness, sadness and comfort to a child born into a wealthy family who spoil him constantly.
The former will have the day of his life if he can find a clean glass of water to share with his family, and the latter will have the worst day of his life if he does not get the 50 games he was promised instead of the 30 along with the playstation 3, new clothes, and scooter.
Were the 2 children like this the moment they were born?
No, it was the external influences and social conditions that brought the differences.
So again I ask....
The answer to the question 'are people born gay?' is a very silly question indeed!
Isn't it similar to asking 'are people born liking apples?'
Regards
Ramzi