Black mud = black-colored man?
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Since the last discussion we had on the topic, I've come across some new and extremely obvious information
http//i329.photobucket.com/albums/l363/kushitex/hamaa/Ch15v28hamaablack.jpg
Clear enough. So what's black mud?
Here we have a carbon sample
http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/C%2C6.jpg
All life on earth is made from carbon, including humans. And all life on earth, including some humans, is not black-colored. If carbon is indeed the "black mud" described t is entirely possible for the first man to have been made from a black mud without necessarily being black-skinned. I believe the color of the first man's skin is probably dark (due to african origins of humanity) but I do not believe that white-colored people can not be descended from the first man because of their color, or that the use of "black mud" in the creation of the first man implies that any men of any other color must have been from a different creation. Any thoughts?
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Isnt skin color changed by the pigment in our skin? So what would it matter if someone has a diffirent ammount of a certian chemical in their body than we do?
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I think that the first man was very white as in Paradise there is no Sun but when Adam fell and got exposed to the Sun, melanin started to form. Ofcourse, thats a speculation. And yes there is no relation between the color of the mud and the skin color. If there was a relation, then everything in the body should be black. God rearranged all the molecules in a certain form when He breathed His spirit into Adam so the color characteristics changed.
May God guides us to the straightest path.
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People who argue that White people didn't evolve from the same ancestor all other people did should watch the National Geographic channel's brilliant documentary called DNA Mysteries The Search for Adam. It's available on youtube in five parts. You can watch all parts at the following addresses
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnrUR6GvAKk
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSHv5qH7uM&feature=related
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z8BYcalgrI&feature=related
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX7VNco_7Yg&feature=related
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnlONM2_cwM&feature=related -
I think that the first man was very white as in Paradise there is no Sun but when Adam fell and got exposed to the Sun, melanin started to form. Ofcourse, thats a speculation. And yes there is no relation between the color of the mud and the skin color. If there was a relation, then everything in the body should be black. God rearranged all the molecules in a certain form when He breathed His spirit into Adam so the color characteristics changed.
May God guides us to the straightest path.
White like an albino?
Anyway, it also says Quran 2445 that every living thing is created from water. And humans are 60-70% water...
Anyway here's how M Asad sees that term used in 1526-28
There are many references in the Qur'an to man's having been "created out of clay (tin)" or "out of dust (turab)", both these terms signifying man's lowly biological origins as well as the fact that his body is composed of various organic and inorganic substances existing-in other combinations or in their elementary forms-on or in the earth. The term salsal, occurring in three verses of this surah as well as in 5514, adds a further dimension to this concept. According to most of the philological authorities, it denotes "dried clay that emits a sound" (i.e., when it is struck); and since it is used in the Qur'an exclusively with reference to the creation of man, it seems to contain an allusion to the power of articulate speech which distinguishes man from all other animal species, as well as to the brittleness of his existence (cf. the expression "like pottery" in 5514). As the construction of the sentence shows, this salsal is stated to have evolved (Razi) out of hama' - which, according to some authorities, is the plural of ham'ah, signifying "dark, fetid mud" or "dark slime"-while the participial adjective masnun which qualifies this noun denotes, as Razi points out, both "altered" (i.e., in its composition) and "brought into shape" hence my rendering of this expression as "transmuted", which to some extent combines both of the above meanings. To my mind, we have here a description of the primeval biological environment out of which the "sounding clay" - the matrix, as it were - of man's physical body has evolved in accordance with God's plan of creation.
Once in school, this white girl was conversing how she was made of skin. I replied by, "you're not made of skin, your made of mud". And she replied "maybe you're made of mud because of your color, but not me".
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is it something to do with evolution.. the theory that says human evolved from a non living may be the black mud, if so does evolution the GOD'S process of creating a human,
Does God experimented things before he created the human. who knows.
the growing body, the learning mind, still a mystery.
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Peace,
RSW. Makes good sense to me. As for Rami's conclusion I think that is didly-doo. I think we were put on and in earth when we took human form. Hence our human form is only our earthly one only. I'm boycotting National Geographic. They refuse to recognize black Egyptians and the black king tut. Their rendition of him doesn't even look like his mask on his tomb. So I will never have anything to do with them. Discovery is too afraid to do a show or a Musuem exhibit on their rendition of king tut as a black person. But i can understand the practicality of their cowardice on this issue.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace,
This is a funny discussion, largely based on the views in the other thread regarding Muhammad being white... Regardless of the mentioned opinions regarding the formation of Adam from "BLACK MUD", which clearly imply that he had black skin, the depiction still exists
If the Qur'an said that Adam was created from 'WHITE MUD', would it be manipulated by white people (in general) to claim that Adam had white skin?
The answer is Absolutely, YES! But this isn't the case, according to the scriptures. Adam was formed from black mud, and "coincidentally", culturalization developed in Africa, in the areas of Kush, Nubia, and Kemet, where the people had VERY DARK (black) SKIN. The Africans had, and still have, and overwhelming amount of dominant genetic features, including dark skin. When melanin forms in the skin, the level of it is dependent of genetic makeup. Since melanin is often considered the "juice of life", the more that one has, the more they are able to function properly. In turn, this means the less that one has, the less they are able to function properly. It's compounds slow down aging, and they reduce the production of wrinkles in the skin. It affects the skin, muscles, hair, eyes, and most of the other forms of human developmental features as well. Once your body develops a melanin depletion, it doesn't redevelop; it becomes a genetic deformity, resulting in the formation of recessive genes... So, how is it even possible that Adam was white? The answer IT'S NOT. Recessive genes can develop from dominant genes, but dominant genes can't be formed from recessive genes. Period. If all humanity comes from one person, that one person had to have been BLACK, having all dominant genes. Over time, and through certain genetic deformities (which we won't even discuss), a melanin depletion occurred in some of the people, and it resulted in them having a concentration of recessive genetic traits, one of which is PALE SKIN.
Peace,
Ahmad
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The word in question...
From
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htmSad-Lam-Lam / Sad-Lam-Sad-Lam = to resound, clash, be dried up, emit a sound. sallatun - sound, clank, dry earth. salsaal - dry ringing clay, sounding/dried clay.
salsal n.m. 1526, 1528, 1533, 2533?, 5514
LL, V4, p 433, 434, 435
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It is interesting that it implies that a form of vessel was created, ready for something to be put into it.
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The word in question...
From
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htmSad-Lam-Lam / Sad-Lam-Sad-Lam = to resound, clash, be dried up, emit a sound. sallatun - sound, clank, dry earth. salsaal - dry ringing clay, sounding/dried clay.
salsal n.m. 1526, 1528, 1533, 2533?, 5514
LL, V4, p 433, 434, 435
#####################################################
It is interesting that it implies that a form of vessel was created, ready for something to be put into it.
This is the word in question? confused I thought the word in question is "hamaa", meaning black... We already know that Adam was formed from dried clay or mud; this is not in question at all. The dispute seems to be over the term "salsaalin min hamaain", which literally means hardened black mud.
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Ahh, the translation quoted in the original post threw me. One of the words in question.
The other is
From http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htmHa-Miim-Alif = Black and fetid mud, to cleanse the well of it , to be mixed with black and fetid mud, to be rendered turbid and altered in odour, to be angry with someone, paternal uncle, a certain plant that grows in Nejd in the sands or in the plain and soft land, a man of an evil eye, to injure with the evil eye.
hama n.m. 1526, 1528, 1533
hami n.m. 1886
Lane's Lexicon, Volume 2, page 271, 272, 273, 274 -
Peace,
This is a funny discussion, largely based on the views in the other thread regarding Muhammad being white... Regardless of the mentioned opinions regarding the formation of Adam from "BLACK MUD", which clearly imply that he had black skin, the depiction still exists
If the Qur'an said that Adam was created from 'WHITE MUD', would it be manipulated by white people (in general) to claim that Adam had white skin?
The answer is Absolutely, YES! But this isn't the case, according to the scriptures. Adam was formed from black mud, and "coincidentally", culturalization developed in Africa, in the areas of Kush, Nubia, and Kemet, where the people had VERY DARK (black) SKIN. The Africans had, and still have, and overwhelming amount of dominant genetic features, including dark skin. When melanin forms in the skin, the level of it is dependent of genetic makeup. Since melanin is often considered the "juice of life", the more that one has, the more they are able to function properly. In turn, this means the less that one has, the less they are able to function properly. It's compounds slow down aging, and they reduce the production of wrinkles in the skin. It affects the skin, muscles, hair, eyes, and most of the other forms of human developmental features as well. Once your body develops a melanin depletion, it doesn't redevelop; it becomes a genetic deformity, resulting in the formation of recessive genes... So, how is it even possible that Adam was white? The answer IT'S NOT. Recessive genes can develop from dominant genes, but dominant genes can't be formed from recessive genes. Period. If all humanity comes from one person, that one person had to have been BLACK, having all dominant genes. Over time, and through certain genetic deformities (which we won't even discuss), a melanin depletion occurred in some of the people, and it resulted in them having a concentration of recessive genetic traits, one of which is PALE SKIN.
Peace,
Ahmad
I'm not saying black skinned people didn't develop the first civilizations. im not saying the first man was any color than black, either. for those things i am in agreement with you. what i am saying is tha if the "black mud" is indeed carbon that could be a miracle of the Qu'ran (was 600 a.d. aware of molecular biology and chemistry?), and it could also possibly broaden the definition of who 'adam' is. If the 'black mud' is carbon, the creature being made out of it needn't necessarily be any particular color at all.
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Peace Rsw,
I'm not saying black skinned people didn't develop the first civilizations. im not saying the first man was any color than black, either. for those things i am in agreement with you. what i am saying is tha if the "black mud" is indeed carbon that could be a miracle of the Qu'ran (was 600 a.d. aware of molecular biology and chemistry?), and it could also possibly broaden the definition of who 'adam' is. If the 'black mud' is carbon, the creature being made out of it needn't necessarily be any particular color at all.
It wouldn't make sense for the Qur'an to refer to Adam being shaped from "carbon". If this was the distinguishment, the scripture would've used the word "carbon". What would be the significance of saying that Adam was formed from "carbon mud"? ) Carbon is already present in mud/clay properties, so this statement would be redundant. Plus, there are many more properties in mud that simply carbon; so why would God refer to only one of the many elements contained in this large mixture? Again, this is illogical. The human structural circulatory system is based on an alternation of carbon and oxygen, as well as other chemical properties. Based on this, for any book to simply say that the first human was shaped from "carbon" would be grossly incorrect. The simplest, and most accurate, meaning for this is that black was the actual color of Adam's skin. There's no way around it...
Peace,
Ahmad
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If this was the distinguishment, the scripture would've used the word "carbon".
yay rotfl rotfl
Are you serious? This is getting worse and worse. It's better if we don't know something to stay silent on the issue. Go get a biology book (maybe even a soil science book) and research carbon. Carbon is the building block of all life on earth, i.e. all organic organisms and materials. Without carbon there is no life on earth.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace Anwar,
Are you serious? This is getting worse and worse. It's better if we don't know something to stay silent on the issue. Go get a biology book (maybe even a soil science book) and research carbon. Carbon is the building block of all life on earth, i.e. all organic organisms and materials. Without carbon there is no life on earth.
Anwar, please stop promoting your foolishness; it is absolutely ridiculous! Why would the Qur'an say specifically that Allah created Adam from "carbon", and leave it at this? Was Adam shaped from ONLY CARBON? ) Think logically, Anwar, and stop making these absurd comments that have no reasoning. I suggest you open a textbook. Without OXYGEN there is no life on earth. Without NITROGEN there is no life on earth. CARBON is no singularized in any case of life, and with pure carbon, nothing on this planet would survive... If you really knew as much about Arabic language as you claim, you'd know that "salsaalin min hamaain" refers specifically to BLACK MUD. This term has been used since the origins of the Khemetic languages, where people referred to the mud as BLACK, as in the color. So, in this context, if Adam was shaped from black mud, it is an implication that Adam was 'black like mud'. It doesn't have anything to do with him being 'shaped from carbon'. You can't be serious, Anwar. laugh
Please stop promoting this nonsense, as it shows your ignorance of basic literary context in both Arabic and English... ) The words "salaalin min hamaain" literally mean "BLACK MUD"; a reference to "carbon" is nowhere in this passage at all. If it is, please show us all the word for "carbon" in this verse... If you can't, then STOP THE MADNESS... )
Peace,
Ahmad
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Anwar, please stop promoting your foolishness; it is absolutely ridiculous! Why would the Qur'an say specifically that Allah created Adam from "carbon", and leave it at this? Was Adam shaped from ONLY CARBON? Roll Eyes Think logically, Anwar, and stop making these absurd comments that have no reasoning. I suggest you open a textbook. Without OXYGEN there is no life on earth. Without NITROGEN there is no life on earth. CARBON is no singularized in any case of life, and with pure carbon, nothing on this planet would survive... If you really knew as much about Arabic language as you claim, you'd know that "salsaalin min hamaain" refers specifically to BLACK MUD. This term has been used since the origins of the Khemetic languages, where people referred to the mud as BLACK, as in the color. So, in this context, if Adam was shaped from black mud, it is an implication that Adam was 'black like mud'. It doesn't have anything to do with him being 'shaped from carbon'. You can't be serious, Anwar. laugh
I know we are not just made out of carbon, we all know that. And I don't think anyone here is saying that God mixed carbon and water to make man or any living things. We are obviously more complex than that. Which is why salsalin means quintessence. A specific and special type of an essential sample from SOME black fetid(full of life) mud. Now what I am saying as well as RSW (correct me if I'm wrong RSW) is that mankind was formed from a mud made up of a number of things, but one of its primary elements WAS carbon. And because carbon is black whenever it is found in the soil that mud was black. So I think the Quran is pointing to the carbonaceous material we were made from (which would make it black in color). And I think he made all living beings (atleast fleshy ones) from that same material with different arrangements, maybe a touch of something here and there in his different batches. Now as for no life without oxygen or nitrogen . . HMMM. Here we go guessing again. There is someting called Anaerobic bacteria which can do fine without the presence of oxygen. Don't plants breathe in carbon dioxide instead of oxygen as well? (i'm sure there are some exceptions). As for nitrogen . .. I'm not going to guess on that. I think all life above the top soil definitely has some nitrogen going on in it. Although thank you for the research topic. I think I'll be looking into that.
As for the Khemetic languge comment . . . Why? That has nothing to do with anything. I believe that Khemet as black people is not referring to the origins of all mankind, but is just a self-description of original black Egyptians. Some believe it means black earth as well. But if the the very trees and animals that come out of that black earth that they also feed from aren't necessarily black don't you think that's a bit of a kindergarten association to assume that because we were made from something orignally black that the end product also has to be black?
I think that the black mud we were created from was a carbon rich mud giving it a black color but God derived many colors from that carbon rich mud, and the color of the mud IS NOT the real or the logical reason for why the first humans were black. The reasons for this abound, but this is not one of them.
Please stop promoting this nonsense, as it shows your ignorance of basic literary context in both Arabic and English... Roll Eyes The words "salaalin min hamaain" literally mean "BLACK MUD"; a reference to "carbon" is nowhere in this passage at all. If it is, please show us all the word for "carbon" in this verse... If you can't, then STOP THE MADNESS... Roll Eyes
''I think I've said enough. I don't think Classical Arabic even has a term for the chemcial element of Carbon. Our term is borrowed from the ancient greek or latin carbo which means coal/charcoal. In Modern Arabic they say Karboon. So of course it wouldn't exist in the Quran, if it didn't even exist in Classical Arabic as a concept. that's like asking the Quran to talk about airplanes and car engines. Not gonna happen. I think black mud says enough. Especially if you know what element gives soil its black color (that is if it's good soil), or coal, lignite, leonardite or charcoal. Word of the day Carbon!!!! bravo
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace Anwar,
You have to be joking with this foolishness... laugh So, you're saying that "black" was a reference to carbon, or in other words, just because Adam was shaped from "salsaalin min hamaa"/BLACK MUD, it doesn't mean that Adam was actually black... So, what color was Adam? )
The Qur'an says that Adam was shaped from black mud. Therefore, if Adam's skin was black, it's reasonable to conclude that it was because HE WAS SHAPED FROM BLACK MUD. If you shape anything from black mud, it's going to be black, just like the mud! Adam was shaped from this black mud, and, just like the mud, Adam has black skin... I don't even know what your point is by alluding to the "carbon" issue; it has no relevance. The bottom line is that he was shaped from black mud, making his skin black. And no matter how you look at the situation concerning geneological evolution, pale skin is caused by the depletion of melanin in the skin, which is the result of a genetic deformity... Now, am I saying that white people are genetically defected because they have pale skin? No... But I am saying that pale skin is not the original complexion of humans, and this is undoubtedly tied to the formation of Adam from a dark-colored substance, namely BLACK MUD.
Look at the reasons for the dark color of African mud, and you'll realize that it's because of the iron content in the earth; it doesn't have anything to do with "carbon". Your argument is absurd...
Word of the day BLACK!!! bravo laugh
Peace,
Ahmad
