Taking off the Hijab
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Peace Far,
I have been patient with you, in regards to this matter I will address it this last time. I feel i have said adequate enough things for you to be wise enough to either further your study or understand your own position. A wise person once told me "there's no point teaching someone to learn if they're fixated in a position and choose not to look beyond it, they're not ready to learn they only want to teach you and force their opinion on". In ways, you remind me of this.
3358 and continuing even context before is in relation to situation of harm. Every situation is different and requires specific things. jilbab is not a material around the head. and in terms of clothing most women don't have a problem in lengthening their clothes.
The way you think/feel around women is subjective to you. men are not disabled for us to treat them differently, besides disabled people want to be valued as part of society not outcast as different. the weakness is on men or you, not me. People don't change for disabled people but they will help them and support them. so i don't see why you're thinking requires me or other women to placate your needs. But we can definitely help by not flirting, speaking proper etc.
In a true muslim society, muslims and non muslims live together in peace. if you truly believe that muslim women must cover, you havent fixed the problem. For this reason i think anyone who has problems should train themselves, just like a child who may have an allergy to a common food, e.g. s/he will need to train themselves if they smell it, to deter their senses elsewhere or whatever may be the case. in regards to you maybe you should intentionally put your focus elsewhere, you need to see what works for you. you can't force and make all women wear the headscarf
Remember the logic of the Quran is subject to everyone and not just subjective to individuals, it's for humanity not just the men. to think about your own situation only is taking a closed minded approach, we need to all look at it holistically.
I hope you realise you have the strength to control your senses/thoughts/desires and that one day GW you can actually think with any women near you.
Peace
P.S you may still disagree with me, what's the point in continuing and arguing? For respect of this thread, we should stop derailing. if you still feel the need to put "evidence" other than youtube or the like, maybe refer to previous threads about the subject as there are many and post your interpretation/opinion/evidence there.
Remember your opinion is based on interpretation, recognise why you have this interpretation and why others have another, that may help in your learning )
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@ FAR
my point was this
Peace All,
There are good girls with hijab or rather I should say head scarf and there are bad girls with the headscarf. That being said the same can be said about non head-scarfed girls. Good and bad doesn?t start or end by how you look or dress. Remember the best dress is piety (726)
Just leave the judging to the most just judge (God)
peace Peace everyone
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Peace Far,
I have been patient with you, in regards to this matter I will address it this last time. I feel i have said adequate enough things for you to be wise enough to either further your study or understand your own position. A wise person once told me "there's no point teaching someone to learn if they're fixated in a position and choose not to look beyond it, they're not ready to learn they only want to teach you and force their opinion on". In ways, you remind me of this.
3358 and continuing even context before is in relation to situation of harm. Every situation is different and requires specific things. jilbab is not a material around the head. and in terms of clothing most women don't have a problem in lengthening their clothes.
The way you think/feel around women is subjective to you. men are not disabled for us to treat them differently, besides disabled people want to be valued as part of society not outcast as different. the weakness is on men or you, not me. People don't change for disabled people but they will help them and support them. so i don't see why you're thinking requires me or other women to placate your needs. But we can definitely help by not flirting, speaking proper etc.
In a true muslim society, muslims and non muslims live together in peace. if you truly believe that muslim women must cover, you havent fixed the problem. For this reason i think anyone who has problems should train themselves, just like a child who may have an allergy to a common food, e.g. s/he will need to train themselves if they smell it, to deter their senses elsewhere or whatever may be the case. in regards to you maybe you should intentionally put your focus elsewhere, you need to see what works for you. you can't force and make all women wear the headscarf
Remember the logic of the Quran is subject to everyone and not just subjective to individuals, it's for humanity not just the men. to think about your own situation only is taking a closed minded approach, we need to all look at it holistically.
I hope you realize you have the strength to control your senses/thoughts/desires and that one day GW you can actually think with any women near you.
Peace
P.S you may still disagree with me, what's the point in continuing and arguing? For respect of this thread, we should stop derailing. if you still feel the need to put "evidence" other than youtube or the like, maybe refer to previous threads about the subject as there are many and post your interpretation/opinion/evidence there.
Remember your opinion is based on interpretation, recognise why you have this interpretation and why others have another, that may help in your learning
And to Peace Far also.
I expect you to be more patient than me, but then again I cannot expect everyone to be patient as me.
Yes I wise person also told me to be precise and concise, as well as not to give in.
3358 is in relation to the harm caused upon men when they have been prevented from being able to think, or being made biochemically changed when in front of certain women.
I said khimar is a material around the head. jilbab is more so.
The way I think is subject to all males, it is not subject to you since you are not a male. If it was not subject to males other than me, then that would imply that I was some sort of freak of nature. One would need to provide evidence against the research done by both the Italian scientists, and the BBC. This evidence is yet to be made apparent.
Men are not disabled, but when women in certain occasions make them disabled, such is not acceptable especially when they do not recognize that fact. The weakness of a disabled individual in a wheelchair when trying to climb up above a step, is placed against the proprietor of that property. People do change to adapt to the needs of those who are disabled.
Why is it that men have to placate to the financial needs of women, yet they have no obligation to provide for the needs of men? When it comes to equal rights, there seems to be something missing here in the books of women who believe such to be true. That is not forgetting that men are different from women, as would be disabled people from able people. But they all deserve equal rights that will almost in all cases be different for each set of individuals needs.Not Flirting and speaking properly is most appreciated, but according to quran 2235 the natural order of people is that they would do so without sin as stated in the verse.
In a true muslim society, muslims and muslimahs and non-muslims and non-muslimahs do live in peace. But not always. There may be some times that they do not live in peace, today is one example before us where they do not seem to live in peace. We of course seem to be not in a time of either peace or a muslim society, even if that be in this forum. Training oneself is all good, but expecting that oneselves train themselves, and then when it comes to practicing quran 971, 2430-31, 2235, 3358-59 others may not be willing to train with oneself... this bodes for conflict in that individuals training progress.
Children would certainly not have the initial ability to recognize their allergies let alone their needs for growth. Unless they were trained and provided assistance from those who did know. Even today, people with certain allergies have no choice but to inform others that they are allergic. If others do not wish to adhere to such a notice from the allergic, then there may be problems for the allergic.
And I shall not be forced to be told on what I may put my attention upon.
The logic of the quran is applied to everyone then men would menstruate. To think about my position is to obey the quran when it tells me to "tell the believing women".
The god willing I shall be able to see woman come to realize and adhere to the quran so much so that they would be able to teach and realize the truth about it so that half of my faith could become complete.
I cannot force women to wear Manolo Blahnik can I now?
Recognizing why others have another interpretation would be difficult without me be able to find out the exact reasons. For I only study the verses and the terms and the meanings of the terms and the history of the usage. I would need to know more than just "I cannot see it", because sometimes when I am asked to look for something (such as cello tape in the draw, but could not see it even though it was right in front of my nose) I cannot see it.
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FAR, after all your long posts and arguments, you still have NOT provided us with the most important and indisputable evidence to support your case Qur'anic verse(s). Show us that we are blind, show us the Qur'anic verse(s) that we have failed to see the Qur'anic verses that ordain the women to cover their head and hair. Please do so. If you can provide such verse(s), I will be the first one to put a headscarf on and I will be advising other female Believers to do so. Until you do so, you cannot say that headscarf for women is Islamic. You are welcome to have your views that women should put headscarf on, but you have absolutely NO right calling Muslimahs who don't wear the headscarf, "fake Muslimahs". Bear in mind 4911.
Tell me honestly, which will you find more attractive, a woman with beautiful long hair with a mask on, or a beautiful woman with a headscarf on?
Are you saying I have to put a burqa on? What I was trying to say, is that the most important thing is to act modestly, and not use our ornaments to purposely attract the opposite sex. I can still wear modest clothes, but not act modestly to attract me.
God knows what is concealed inside the hearts, and that is what's most important.
Peace.Peace.
Respectfully.I agree.
I had a similar conversation with a sunni woman couple of years ago.....
Amazing.Peace.
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Quran 285, 37, 1590-1594
As for women wanting to become nude and go against quran 2430... and becoming cheap for quran 2433.... let them please see the scientific evidences provided by some Italian scientists that go against their beliefs but agree with the quran.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9x5wY6hbX8
Am I being to harsh?
Maybe I need to find a forum where real muslimahs are at, because I have a question to ask them... and I don't know if the females here are suitable for that.Peace,
Respectfully.females here have names and i can assure you that nowhere in the entire Quran are women told to cover their hair or head. Why? Becuse it's not the hair nor the head that attracts the opposite gender, it's how these are used. If a woman is fixing her hair and correcting her make up in front of a man, with the intention of attracting him, then she is clearly not lowering her gaze, is she?
What if a woman who shows only her face, puts some more mascara? After all, i won't be able to see her hair but if i'm looking at her eyes being beautified ..... do you understand where i'm going with this?
You're more then welcomed to stay on this forum as long as you wish and i got no harsh feelings towards you, but i do believe that you should re-read The Quran carefully. God bless you and may God guide you.
Peace.
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What's the difference between a young women and a girl?
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What's the difference between a young women and a girl?
It can be offensive to talk about women as girls in a way that one wouldn't talk about men as boys. Something about being condescending.
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Peace all.
Haha. I think the issue is mostly one of a double standard. Its ok to call a thirty year old woman a girl, but not a thirty year old man.
Also there is an issue in the media of women being referred to as mothers and grandmothers. Like a local small-town newspaper headline may say "67 year old grandmother obtains college degree" or "67 year old man obtains college degree", but never "67 year old grandfather".
It is basically defining that a woman's primary role is mothering/grandmothering, but not a man's. Another double standard. Does not bode over well where we live in a diverse world, where women and men should have the freedom to define their own roles.
Kukumber