Maryam Isa's Mother doing prayers (salat maybe) with men ? 3:43
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A true believer would pray behind a naked woman without being attracted by her beauty. It's a challenge and dont laugh please.
Mirza Ghalib said one day to somebody "Show me a place in the mosque where I can drink some vine"
Peace Jawad et al.
I think this is the couplet you are referring too.
Masjid mein baith kar peene de Ghalib, Warna Aisi jagah Bata Jahan Khuda na ho
Ghalib is one of the reasons I learned Urdu
Cheers
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reformer1,
As far as I'm aware, the masculine plural never refers to an all female group. But anyways, so let us say it is impossible to conclude baAAdin refers to females only, then why did you post a translation implying it refers to females?
We can determine what it refers to by the way The Quran uses the word. e.g. does baAAdin ever refer to all females anywhere? Not that I know of. If some males are bestowed/preferred in 434, then that means not all, hence "ala baAAdin" perfectly fits for referring to males. Everytime baAAdin is used it refers to a subsection of those talked about, and in 434 that is al rijal. Also, since bima brackets/limits the QWM reference, and refers to what they spent etc then it leaves no choice but to say baAAdin refers to either males or males+females, NOT females only.
That is the point I was getting at.
The thing that I implied that it is for all females is what God said to the wives of the prophet, you can look for my post .
The second thing "Qawama" of course it is limited, everyone in its field, everyone in what God has made him, for example a man goes to battle, a woman not allowed to fight instead of that she is allowed to do medecine to those who fight . A man works to provide money and supllies to his wive, she is not in need of suplying anything if she has money .
A man allowed to lead the prayer as prophet said, a woman not allowed to lead prayer in the existence of men. this is our subject if you have any verse or common sense said the opposite , let me know .
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?AS YOU ARE, YOU WILL BE LED? KHALED ABOU EL FADL LEADS A TOWN HALL MEETING ON WOMAN-LED PRAYER IN LOS ANGELES
Since the March 18th prayer led by Amina Wadud in New York and co-sponsored by muslimwakeup.com and the Muslim Women?s Freedom Tour, the Muslim community?s excitement, confusion, and even outrage led the Progressive Muslim Union of North America (PMU), which endorsed the prayer, to take two concrete actions in an attempt to alleviate our community's confusion. First, we started a Prayer Initiative which houses information about female-led prayer, including arguments for and against it and first hand accounts of the New York prayer. Secondly, we committed ourselves to organizing as many town hall meetings around the country as we could on the subject of female led prayer. PMU put on its first such town hall meeting in Los Angeles on June 5, and invited UCLA Law Professor Khaled Abou El Fadl to give the keynote speech.
Our goal was to act as a conduit of information to the Muslim community in order to encourage Muslims to make informed decisions about this issue. The goal of the New York City woman-led mixed gender prayer was not to impose this particular style of prayer on others, but to be part of a challenge of the current status quo, which attempts to dictate one style of prayer on everyone, namely where men lead, and women stay behind. Our point in endorsing woman-led prayer and launching the Prayer Initiative is not so much to dictate how people should pray, but rather to insist that a wide spectrum of interpretations be respected and discussed.
El Fadl spent the first 45 minutes or so of his two-hour presentation making precisely this point. Calling Muslims a ?lost? people due to the depth of alienation from our rich intellectual traditions, and decrying the lack of quality and high standards in our religious leaders? reasoning and intellectual integrity; it was as if El Fadl felt he needed to engage in a collective deprograming of the 70+ in attendance before he could start to lay down his research on female-led prayer. Why? We believe part of El Fadl?s point was that the swift denunciation of female-led prayer by most of our religious leaders was quite likely more a product of knee-jerk polemics and an expression of deeply-held patriarchy than the product of intelligible legal reasoning.
At one point in his introduction, El Fadl reminded the audience that ?sharia is supposed to be a fountain of God?s wisdom from which we can all draw from.? The image of sharia as a fountain was one that we had some difficulty with, as we are more used to sharia being represented as a quasi-mysterious, unyielding code of conduct usually regarding the most obscure, mundane, and deeply personal of issues. Moreover, this mysterious code is usually dictated to us by self-appointed religious gurus who somehow possess one of few keys available to its decoding, and whose decisions tend to reflect their interests as men and authority figures. Yet the statement set a tone. El Fadl took us through this kaleidoscope by focusing on the one issue of female-led prayer and led the audience into different schools of thought, including extinct ones, different debates that took place within those schools, different geographical locations, different centuries, and finally highlighted the influence of politics on these debates.
In his survey of the history of discussion of the issue of female led prayer in Islam, El Fadl divided the arguments against female led prayer into two categories ones that questioned women?s intellectual capacity to lead prayer, and others that argued that women led prayer would create fitna due to the potential to sexually excite men.
Intellectual Capacity of Women
Um Salama, a woman of the Prophet?s time, enjoyed a very high degree of religious authority, as did A'isha, the Prophet's wife. In fact, according to El Fadl, ?About 30% (if not more) of Islamic jurisprudence was created by these two women.? When jurists later wrote about these two women, many ?exceptionalized? them in order to get around the potential legal implications of the fact that these two women were certainly of the highest intellectual capacity at the time of the Prophet. Jurists later argued that the status of A?isha and Um Salama could not be instructive for laws regarding women, since these women were close to the Prophet, and it is therefore impossible to find any women of comparable intellectual ability in any other period.
Sexuality
The other major reason jurists gave for a prohibition on woman-led prayer is the potential for fitna caused by sexual distraction. El Fadl emphasized that on this point, what is needed is an understanding of the sexual anthropology of Muslims during that period, and a recognition that sexual mores ? including what is considered sexually enticing ? changes over time. It may well have been that in certain Islamic societies in certain geographical locations at certain times to bend over would be too close to a sexual act; and it may well be that such prostrating does not produce the same effect or have the same symbolic place in our culture today. Ironically, El Fadl told us that A?isha, the Prophet?s wife, at one time slept next to the Prophet as he led prayers.
Not all jurists, by any stretch, argued absolutely against female-led prayer, and some believed female-led prayer was permissible at all times, including the five daily prescribed prayers and for ?extra? prayers, such as tarawih prayers during Ramadan. Al Tabari for example, is one such scholar who believed woman-led prayer to be acceptable at all times. He and other jurists created schools of thought that were powerful in the 10th, 11th and 12th centuries ? at one time their power surpassed that of the Hanbali school ? but that later became extinct.
Politics
One of the oft-repeated refrains supporters of woman-led prayer hear is that the Muslim community in general, and Muslim women in particular, are facing ?more important issues,? and that woman-led prayer is, at best, cosmetic. What it takes to disprove this assertion is to demonstrate that not only is female spiritual leadership is in itself important, but that female spiritual leadership has implications beyond the realm of the spiritual. Is it possible that women are being kept from positions of spiritual authority in order to limit their power in other arenas?
El Fadl argued that from early on in Islamic history, leadership of prayer was recognized as a form of social and political leadership. This view is consistent with a particularly revealing quote from Nasr Fareed Wassel, the former mufti of Egypt, who told Egypt Today in their January, 2005 issue, "In order to lead Muslims in their worldly affairs, the ruler must be eligible to lead them in their prayers, and since by consensus of the Muslim community women never lead men in prayers, they cannot rule them.? El Fadl also observed that women rights issues tend to surface in contexts of political oppression.
We believe it would have been hard to walk out of that lecture without a renewed appreciation of the kaleidoscope of conversations, debates and legal rulings, all influenced by political and social factors, that make up the corpus of Islamic intellectual history. Islamic intellectual histories, like all historical narratives, are first and foremost human products, in this case the product of the sum total of Muslim attempts to uncover the essence of the divine. Indeed, there is not one system of human endeavor that has not grown, evolved or been shaped by the challenges of their day, be it other religious laws such as Jewish law or Canon law, or the legal history of the United States with its constitutional amendments, countless rulings and laws, trends and lasting social movements. To deny this history in Islam and instead advocate for some kind of ahistorical, salafi approach to texts as literal guidebooks or cookbooks for Muslims (a pinch of this good deed here, ? a cup of prayer there will lead to heaven?) is to ignore basic truths about how social norms and truths are shaped in human history.
Why can we Muslims no longer afford this salafi approach? Because external problems we are facing starkly remind us that we must become more politically and intellectually sophisticated, and we must do it fast. Interestingly, when we asked El Fadl his advice about what contemporary Muslims can concretely do with the picture he painted for us that day, El Fadl replied that we absolutely had to demand the highest possible quality from our political and spiritual leaders.
Educating ourselves about our own tradition is an important first step in the imperative to transform our community into a more internally tolerant and just one. We believe that only when we make these strides internally will we be able to more strongly advocate for justice from external forces, forces that exert too much influence over our lives, livelihoods and even our intellects.
As human beings, it is easier to just continue with the Islam we think we know. Learning and debating is often too much work and too much effort. Some people are too afraid to take the time to learn because then they as Muslims are required to speak up for what is right ? not necessarily what they are familiar with. By launching the Prayer Initiative and organizing these townhall meetings on the issue, PMU hopes to become a reliable and constant source of information and knowledge. What individual Muslims choose to do with that knowledge is up to them.
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The entries in the Tabaqat of Ibn Sa?d on Umm Waraqah and Al-Fath al-Rabbani state that Umm Waraqah ?sought permission from the prophet to go out with him to give medicine to the wounded and nurse the sick.? When the prophet commanded war, people did not usually individually seek permission to accompany him into battle, but followed his command. Individual permission was sought when wishing to be relieved from their duty and stay behind. Umm Waraqah?s unusual request is explained in the text, which states that the prophet had ordered her to lead the people of her dar in prayer. Thus Umm Waraqah wished to be relieved from this duty in order to accompany the prophet into battle.
The text clearly distinguishes between ?seeking permission? and ?commanding.? Umm Waraqah ?sought permission? when wishing to go to battle, but the prophet ?commanded? her in leading prayer. ?Seeking permission? and ?being commanded? are two very different issues altogether. Thus the ?details? provided by Abu Dawood are at odds with the text of Ibn Sa?d and Ibn Hanbal. The Sunan of Abu Dawood, and the Sunan works in general, differ from the Sahih works in that their conditions (shurut) show a greater liberality, not only as pertains to the inner coherence of the chains of transmission (isnad), but also in the individual tradents (rijal) occurring in them. Whereas Bukhari and Muslim only admitted tradents on whose veracity and reliability there was full agreement, Abu Dawood was satisfied with transmitters as long as they were not universally condemned. The Sunan works were legal in purpose and did not generally contain information that had no legal use or was anecdotal in nature.
Thus it is not sound to conclude that women leading men in prayer was not a permitted thing in the case of Umm Waraqah it was a commanded thing. The prophet specifically chose her, when he could have chosen a man, for example the mu?adhdhin. His choice is also explained in the text by the fact that she had collected the Qur?an. Even if she did seek permission, it was granted, thus it is sound to conclude that women leading men in prayers was a permitted thing. We have no record of the prophet ever refusing the request of a woman to lead prayers.
The Arabic term dar can be used to describe areas ranging from an individual home, to the whole territory of Islam (Dar al-Islam). Often it was used to denote the housing or area where a particular clan lived. Homes in the prophet?s day were not as large as contemporary homes, and usually consisted of small rooms surrounding a courtyard. Clans and tribes lived clustered together. In the context of the Umm Waraqah tradition, it is not sound to assume that dar means her individual home, since this would be at odds with the need for a mu?adhdhin. She would not have needed the mu?adhdhin to call together three persons to prayer as suggested by Mubin. Thus, in this context it is sound to conclude that dar is a larger geographical area, which needed the services of a mu?adhdhin. The text specifically says ?there was a mu?dhdhin for her,? which means that the mu?dhdhin was to call people to come and pray with her.
Thus the literary meaning of the text is not that ?that a women who wishes to lead men in Salah should have permission from the Prophet and then have him appoint a Mu?adhdhin for her. Thereafter she can lead the people of her house in prayer even if there is a man.? It is hard to imagine that anybody living in Medina at that time, whether man or woman, would presume to set up their own mosque, complete with mu?adhdhin, without either the prophet?s express command or permission. Today, all who lead congregational prayers or perform the adhan (call to prayers) do so without the prophet?s express permission, since the prophet has long passed away. His express permission is neither possible nor required, whether for men or women.
As for the hadith ?Verily! The woman is not an Imam over men?, it has been addressed by scholars before and refuted. The chain of transmission contains ?Abdullah ibn Muhammad al-Tamimi, who is considered unreliable and a forger of hadith This is why Muslims do not generally accept it.
In conclusion, what is found in the reliable Prophetic tradition confirms women?s leadership of men in congregational prayers. Moreover, there is no reliable hadith that prohibits women from leading men in prayers.Tabari?s position that women could be Imams over men was by no means a solitary one. Although he started as a Shafi?i, Tabari?s views developed into a distinct school of law (madhhab), with followers who included many leading scholars of the age. Abu Isma?il ibn Yahya al-Muzani (d.264) and Abu Thawr Ibrahim ibn Khalid ibn Abi al-Yaman al-Kalbi (d.240) similarly started out within the Shafi ?i school and then developed their own school of law with adherents in various parts of the Islamic world. The Zahirite school was also a respected school of law with many adherents. Thus, in medieval times, there were at least four schools within Sunnism that permitted women to lead men in prayers. In addition, the Kharijites also permitted women to lead. Thus, in medieval Islam, many men supported the leadership of women. It is difficult to determine the opinions of women on the issue, since they have not been recorded. Whether the majority of the Muslim population supported women?s leadership or not is difficult to determine. Interestingly, these four Sunni schools of law have since died out.
It is important to note, that Muslims who relied on consensus to derive law, distinguished between ?consensus? and ?majority?. None considered consensus to mean majority, but understood it as the agreement of every individual within a group. The Shafi?ite Abu Hamid al-Ghazali, for example, understood it to mean the agreement of all qualified scholars at any moment of time , Malik used the consensus of the people of Medina, the renown Zahirite Ibn Hazm and the Hanbalite Ibn Taymiyya limited it to either the consensus the rightly guided caliphs or to the first generation of Muslims , Shafi?i understood it to mean the consensus of the entire Muslim nation , whereas the Mu?tazilite ?Abd al-Jabbar excluded groups that denied the authoritativeness of consensus . Whichever way one chooses to define it, the legal requirements of consensus in the case of the prohibition of females from leading congregational prayers are not met, even if one should exclude the Kharijites, since there are still four leading scholars and their following to contend with. A ?consensus of a majority? is an interesting notion in light of the great pains of Muslim scholars to distinguish between ?consensus? and ?majority,? but it does not pose a valid legal argument.
In conclusion, in an era conspicuous for its misogyny, the leadership of women was discussed within Islam and supported by many leading scholars of the age. Today, in an age and a country recognized for the promotion of human rights, the leadership of women is met with great resistance by some members of the Muslim community.
The tradition of Abu Bakrah is used to deny women any major leadership, whether judgeship, congregational prayers, acting as Imam or head of state. As Mubin has correctly noted, the meaning of qawwamun in verse 434 is ?supporters?, ?maintainers? and one could also add ?providers?. Extending the meaning to ?authority? is a mistranslation and a misinterpretation. Scholars of the Arabic language such as Ibn Manzur, author of Lisan al-?Arab, explains it as ma?in which means providing sustenance and financial provisions. Thus the verse outlines the financial rights of women over men, but does not prohibit women from leadership positions in any way.
God has affirmed the suitability of women in major leadership roles as seen in Surat al-Naml 2723-44. Men should not be forbidding what God has affirmed.
Discriminating against women on the basis of gender alone and denying them the right to lead Muslim congregations in prayer is gender discrimination and an injustice. Gender discrimination has been addressed in Surat al-Nahl (1658-59). The need for justice has been addressed in Surat al-Ma?ida 58 and elsewhere (See also 733; 1690).
The prophet?s command to Umm Waraqah does indicate his position when it comes to women leading men in prayer. He could have picked a man, yet he chose a woman. We should not be stating that he did not allow it and thereby present a false image of the prophet on that issue. It is only fair that those wishing to present opinions contrary to the prophet, should not ascribe them to the prophet, but should attribute their opinions to themselves.
CONCLUSION
In light of the above, the prohibition against women leading men in congregational prayers as a general, all encompassing rule is not sound due to the following reasons
- God does not prohibit it, and therefore men should not prohibit it (16116).
- God has affirmed the leadership of women over men in major issues (2723-44).
- God has derogated the judgment of those who discriminate against females (1658-59).
- God commands justice and prohibits oppression (58; 733; 1690).
- The prophet?s arrangement with regards to Umm Waraqah?s leadership of men in prayer as transmitted by the early generations of Muslims and accepted by four Sunni schools of law in addition to the Kharijites.
And God knows best.
(Mubin Shaykh)
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The thing that I implied that it is for all females is what God said to the wives of the prophet, you can look for my post .
thats another discussion, another thread, another verse. My my you are getting in a twist ;D
this discussion is about 434 and the significance of Baadin being a masculine plural.
the verse where Allah spoke ONLY regarding the wives of the prophet, and said explicitly the wives of the prophet, the family, is 3332-33
Now on 434, it seems you and so many translators have misunderstood this even though you claim to know Arabic.
This verse is normally thrown at women to mean men are better/stronger/preferred/etc over women, it is NOT so is it? The 'some over others' is some MEN over other MEN, not women at all!!I think Wakas explained it very well but you either didnt read it or understand it.
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There is no verse that that says women are not allowed to lead prayer.
There is and I've explained the word "Qawama" .
434." Men are Qawamine of women, because All?h has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to All?h and to their husbands), and guard in the husband?s absence what All?h orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband?s property). As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, All?h is Ever Most High, Most Great." The word in Arabic is "Qawama" and they translated it to "maintainer or protecter" which are two definition under the huge number of definitions of this word .
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thats another discussion, another thread, another verse. My my you are getting in a twist ;D
this discussion is about 434 and the significance of Baadin being a masculine plural.
the verse where Allah spoke ONLY regarding the wives of the prophet, and said explicitly the wives of the prophet, the family, is 3332-33
Now on 434, it seems you and so many translators have misunderstood this even though you claim to know Arabic.
This verse is normally thrown at women to mean men are better/stronger/preferred/etc over women, it is NOT so is it? The 'some over others' is some MEN over other MEN, not women at all!!I think Wakas explained it very well but you either didnt read it or understand it.
I think you should read what Wakas said . hahah what a joke
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There is and I've explained the word "Qawama" .
434." Men are Qawamine of women, because All?h has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to All?h and to their husbands), and guard in the husband?s absence what All?h orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband?s property). As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, All?h is Ever Most High, Most Great." The word in Arabic is "Qawama" and they translated it to "maintainer or protecter" which are two definition under the huge number of definitions of this word .
so someone maintained or protected cannot lead prayers? it doesnt say that though does it.
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?AS YOU ARE, YOU WILL BE LED? KHALED ABOU EL FADL LEADS A TOWN HALL MEETING ON WOMAN-LED PRAYER IN LOS ANGELES
( ء
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no the joke is you, thats the quote you qouted when replying to Wakas
Why I'm replying to you ? please do not disturb me, I think I understand what wakas meant and he understands what I meant, so there is no point of picking up my words if you do not understand the whole conversation .
Try to stay away from me. I don't want to talk to you because your aim is to opposite and make doom and gloom in the conversation. I proved before the five prayers, so I think you should go pray now.
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No, there isn't, and I have explained to you that the verse you are referring to does not mean women should not occupy positions of leadership. See also my reference to the Queen of Sheba earlier on.
is Queen of Sheba was a leader of prayer ? she was a governor , I doubt you know how she became the Queen ?
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is Queen of Sheba was a leader of prayer ?
I see you did not pay attention to what was posted earlier in this thread. The issue of women leading prayers is closely linked to the issue of women occupying positions of leadership. Which is also what you have been claiming here -- that it is supposedly against the Qur'an if men follow women in any area of life, be it in the family, company, a state, mosque etc.
I doubt you know how she became the Queen ?
It does not matter how and when she became queen. Fact is, that God praises her in the Qur'an for her leadership qualities, wisdom, and spirituality. Surely, if those things were traits reserved only for me, God would not tell us such a story, right?
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Arguments Against Political Participation
Despite the evidence to the contrary, some argue that in Islam women cannot or should not hold positions of leadership. This argument is based primarily on the interpretation given to one hadith and to two Quranic verses. The hadith, related by Abu Bakra, states "God has benefited me from a word I heard from the Prophet (PBUH) on the day of the Camel, after I had been about to join the ranks of the people of the Camel. said ?When the Prophet was informed that the people of Persia had crowned the daughter of Kisra as their ruler, he said No people will ever succeed if they hand their affairs to a woman.?" (Sahih al-Bukhari, trans. by M.M. Khan, Kazi Publications, 1983, vol. 5, p. 508, no. 508; vol. 9, p. 170-171, no. 219.)
Ibn Hazm understood the hadith to mean that a woman can hold any position of leadership other than actually being the head of state. (Muhammad al-Ghazali, Sunna al-Nabawiya Bayna Ahl al-Fiqh wa Ahl al-Hadith, Dar al-Shuruq, 1989, p.56.) Muhammad al-Ghazali states that this hadith must be closely scrutinized and while he has no particular desire to have a woman act as head of state, he is adamant that the state be headed by the most capable person. (Muhammad al-Ghazali, Sunna al-Nabawiya Bayna Ahl al-Fiqh wa Ahl al-Hadith, Dar al-Shuruq, 1989, p.56.)
Al-Ghazali also argued that narrowly interpreting this hadith would contradict historical realities, e.g. England under Queen Victoria, India under Indira Ghandi, and Israel under Golda Meir. (Muhammad al-Ghazali, Sunna al-Nabawiya Bayna Ahl al-Fiqh wa Ahl al-Hadith, Dar al-Shuruq, 1989, p.58.) Al-Ghazali also argues that femininity or masculinity is irrelevant in this regard and he goes on to state that a pious woman is better than a bearded man who has gone astray. (Ibid).
A Quranic verse used to justify excluding women from political leadership states "And the divorced women shall undergo, without remarrying, a waiting period of three monthly courses for it is not lawful for them to conceal what God may have created in their wombs, if they believe in God and the Last Day. And during this period their husbands are fully entitled to take them back, if they desire reconciliation; but, in accordance with justice, the rights of the wives with regard to their husbands are equal to the husbands? rights with regard to them, although men have a degree (darajah) over them. And God is almighty, wise. (Quran 222.
Imam al-Tabari argued that the degree referred to in this verse exhorts men to treat their wives better than they expect to be treated; in other words, the husband should not require his wife to fulfill all of her obligations to him, but he should still fulfill all of his obligations to her. (M.H. Sherif, The Muslim Woman Between the Truth of Sharia and the Fallacy of Falsification, Dar al-Marifa al-Jamiyiya, 1987, p. 141 (citing al-Tabari, Tafsir, 1954, vol. 2, p. 454).)
The view held by Imam al-Tabari, that husbands should treat their wives better than they expect to be treated by them, was apparently the interpretation given to this verse in the early years of Islam. Abdullah ibn Abbas (d. 788 A.D./ 69 A.H.), the Prophet?s cousin, said "I adorn myself for my wife as she adorns herself for me, and I would not like to exact all my rights that she owes me, so that she also would not claim all what is due to her...The ?degree? is a cue to invite men to pleasant cohabitation and to extend to women more money and good manners, because the one with more gifts should impose more upon himself." (M.H. Sherif, "Women and Political Power in Muslim Thought", Lecture, Cornell University, 1987 (citing al-Tabari, Tafsir, 1954, vol. 2, p. 454).)
In later years, scholars began to view the "degree" as equivalent to the advantages of men and linked the alleged superiority to men?s advantages in jihad, inheritance, and whatever else men had in abundance over women. M.H. Sherif, "Women and Political Power in Muslim Thought", Lecture, Cornell University, 1987 (citing al-Tabari, Tafsir, 1954, vol. 2, p. 454).
This supposed superiority was then used as the basis for the argument that wives must obey their husbands. (Ibid). Sayyid Qutb argues that this verse relates to the divorce context where the husband, who has initiated the divorce, has the right to reconcile with his wife during the waiting period. Sayyid Qutb further states "The nature of the situation imposes this right and the degree is restricted to this situation and cannot be construed as of a general nature, as many misunderstand and then adduce it to situations in which it is not applicable." (M.H. Sherif, "Women and Political Power in Muslim Thought", Lecture, Cornell University, 1987 (citing Sayyid Qutb, Fi Dhilal al-Quran, 1973, vol. 2, pp. 246-247).)
Another argument, again restricting this verse to the divorce setting, holds that the degree or advantage men have is the ability to pronounce divorce without the need for arbitration. (Amina Wadud-Muhsin, Quran and Woman, Penerbit Fajar Bakti Sdn. Bhd., 1992, p.68.) Thus, based on the above, this verse need not be interpreted to hold that all men are superior to all women in all situations, thereby denying women political roles.
The other oft quoted verse used to justify the subjugation of women states "Men shall take full care (qawamuna) of women with the bounties which God has bestowed more abundantly (faddala) on some of the former than on some of the latter, and with what they may spend out of their possessions. And the righteous women are the truly devout ones, who guard the intimacy which God has ordained to be guarded." (Quran 434).
This verse states a conditional proposition. Men are to take full care of women if two conditions are met first, if the man?s bounties are more abundant than the woman?s and second, if the man supports the woman from his means. (Amina Wadud-Muhsin, Quran and Woman, Penerbit Fajar Bakti Sdn. Bhd., 1992, p.70.) In terms of more abundant material bounties, the only Quranic reference where men receive a greater share than women is inheritance (Quran 47). Thus, men are responsible to spend of their property on women and so they are given a larger share in inheritance. (Amina Wadud-Muhsin, Quran and Woman, Penerbit Fajar Bakti Sdn. Bhd., 1992, p.71.)
The verse gives no indication of men?s superiority over women in regards to intelligence, piety, or any other attribute; therefore, it makes little sense to interpret this verse to mean that men are superior to women. Furthermore, the verse states that some have been given more bounties than some; thus, men as a class are not quawamuna over women as a class. (Amina Wadud-Muhsin, Quran and Woman, Penerbit Fajar Bakti Sdn. Bhd., 1992, p.71 (citing Aziza al-Hibri, "A Study of Islamic Herstory", Women and Islam Women?s Studies International Forum Magazine, 1982, 521.)
To fully understand the import of the interpretation of this verse in the subjugation of women, one must look at the various interpretations given to qawamuna. Various translations render it as "in charge of", "in charge of the affairs of", or "managers of the affairs of." (Amina Wadud-Muhsin, Quran and Woman, Penerbit Fajar Bakti Sdn. Bhd., 1992, p.71.) Another plausible interpretation is "in charge of the service of" because the word quwamuna includes the concepts of taking care of another, maintaining another, and moral responsibility for another (Muhammad Asad, The Mesage of the Quran, Dar Al-Andalus, 1980, p. 109, nt. 42); taken together, these concepts refer to meeting the needs of another. Whether the concept of qawamuna applies only in the family setting or whether it applies to society as a whole is an issue of debate among scholars. (Id. at p. 72).
Some argue that the concept applies to the family setting, specifically, it addresses the responsibility of the man to ensure that the woman is not burdened with other responsibilities while she is fulfilling her child-bearing function, thereby equalizing their responsibilities to the family. (Id. at p. 73). Thus, this verse does not hold that men have authority over women or that all men are superior to all women; therefore, it cannot be used as a categorical justification to deprive women of political involvement.
Conclusion
The Quran, sunnah, and Islamic history provide ample evidence of women undertaking various forms of political involvement from the bai?ah to fighting in battles to influencing political decisions. Ignoring the contributions of Muslim women deprives our Islamic heritage of valuable role models while continuing the stagnation of Islamic thought. To exclude women from political involvement simply because they are women is an act of tribalism based on gender. The Prophet stated "He is not of us who proclaims the cause of tribal partisanship..." (Muhammad Asad, The Principles of State and Government in Islam, Dar Al-Andalus, 1980, p. 32 (citing Abu Dawud).)
www.forf.org/TRADITIONS_and_MOVEMENTS/ISLAM/Women_Politics.htm
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I see you did not pay attention to what was posted earlier in this thread. The issue of women leading prayers is closely linked to the issue of women occupying positions of leadership. Which is also what you have been claiming here -- that it is supposedly against the Qur'an if men follow women in any area of life, be it in the family, company, a state, mosque etc.
what a joke .
First of all this was before Islam .
second of all Sheba wasn't the leader for the rest of his life .Because Solayman has came and he take the leadership.
third of all she was a Mushrika after Islam and their people as well and we know that al-Mushriq can do everything against his instinct . ( ْ
fourth of all You don't know his story and she wasn't a leader, she was the Queen. Is the Queen in UK leads uk ? rotfl
It does not matter how and when she became queen. Fact is, that God praises her in the Qur'an for her leadership qualities, wisdom, and spirituality. Surely, if those things were traits reserved only for me, God would not tell us such a story, right?
No, it matters .And the God didn't praise her for her leadership or whatever you stated, Prove that .
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she wasn't a leader, she was the Queen. Is the Queen in UK leads uk ? rotfl
No, it matters .And the God didn't praise her for her leadership or whatever you stated, Prove that .
A queen is a leader by default. She ruled over her people, made important decisions, had authority. That IS leadership.
I don't need to "prove" anything, it's right there in the Qur'an. God presents her in this story as a wise, powerful and spiritual person. That IS praising. Maybe you need to brush up on your English, you seem to have a problem with the definition of many terms that are quite clear to anyone else.
And Solomon's soldiers were gathered, comprising of humans and Jinn and birds, for they were to be spread out.
Until they came to a valley of ants, a female ant said "O ants, enter your homes else you will be crushed by Solomon and his soldiers while they do not notice."
He then smiled, amused by what she said. And he said "My Lord, help me to be thankful for the blessings You have bestowed upon me and upon my parents, and that I may do good work that pleases You, and admit me by Your Mercy with Your righteous servants."
And he inspected the birds, then said "Why do I not see the hoopoe, or is he among those absent?"
"I will punish him severely, or I will kill him, else he should have a clear excuse."But the hoopoe did not stay away long, then he said "I have seen what you do not know, and I have come to you from Sheba with news which is certain."
"I found them ruled by a woman, and she was given all possession, and she had a great throne."
"And I found her and her people prostrating to the sun instead of God! And the devil had made their work appear good to them, so he kept them away from the path, for they are not being guided."
"Will they not prostrate to God who brings out what is hidden in the heavens and the Earth, and He knows what you hide and what you declare?"
"God, there is no god but He, the Lord of the great throne."
He said "We will see if you are being truthful or are one of those who lie."
"Take this letter of mine and deliver it to them, then withdraw from them and observe what they respond with."She said "O commanders, a noble letter has been delivered to me."
"It is from Solomon, and it reads "In the name of God, the Almighty, the Merciful""
""Do not be arrogant toward me and come to me as submitters""She said "O commanders, advise me in this matter of mine, for I will not take a decision until you give testimony."
They said "We are people of strength and mighty in power. But the decision is yours, so see what you will command."
She said "When the kings enter a town they destroy it and make its most noble people humiliated. It is such that they do."
"And I will send to them a gift, then I will see with what the messengers will return."
So when they came to Solomon he said "Are you providing me with wealth? What God has provided for me is far better than what He has given you. Now you are happy with your gift!"
"Return to them. For we shall come to them with soldiers the like of which they have never seen, and we will drive them out humiliated, while they are feeble."He said "O commanders, which of you can bring me her throne before they come to me in submission?"
A powerful being from among the Jinn said "I will bring it to you before you rise from your station. For I am strong and trustworthy."
And one who had knowledge from the Scripture said "I will bring it to you before you blink." So when he saw it resting before him, he said "This is from the grace of my Lord, so that He tests me whether I am thankful or whether I reject. As for he who is thankful, he is thankful for himself, and as for he who rejects, then my Lord is Rich, Bountiful."
He said "Disguise her throne so we may see if she will be guided or if she will be of those who are not guided."
So when she came, it was said "Is your throne like this?" She said "It appears to be similar." And we were given knowledge before her, and we had submitted.
And she was prevented by that which she served besides God. She was of the people who were rejecters.
It was said to her "Enter the palace." So when she saw it she thought there was a pool, and she uncovered her legs. He said "It is a palace paved with crystal." She said "My Lord, I have wronged myself; and I submit with Solomon to God, the Lord of the worlds."
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