i want to stop wearing the head-scarf/hijab, need support!
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Ayisha
Sorry but no matter what you try to twist those words into it does NOT mention hair or face and it DOES mention bosom and that IS in the Arabic. Lengthen meaning dont wear mini skirts, wear longer skirts, obviously, how can it mean lengthen from whats on your head?
Ayisha it would have been better, if you would had tried to refute what was said in the post, rather than accusing of, twisting of words. There were no Arabic women wearing mini skirts then..It is been explained in detail what is meant by lengthen.. if you bothered to read.
Leyna
The argument that supposedly there was a consensus of early scholars on the issue is a lie which keeps being repeated by those who want to convince us that women should cover their heads.
No one said it, not at least me, if you read what i posted.
Leyna
Also, the argument that we should follow scholars' understandings doesn't really work here since most people on this forum have a different approach and don't just blindly follow what so-called authorities tell them. If you want use that tired old argument of having to follow the ulema you should go to a Sunni board.
I did not said that, no where that we should follow any Mullah Bullah. It just only shows how people get offended when there is something against their believes, they don't even bother to see what is being said. Arguments are arguments old or new, does not matter as long as they have some point.
Jack
Couldn't have said it better myself...Talk about calling it like it is. The funny & sad thing is that it didn't take very long for you to come to this realization.
Let's stop feeding this troll Smiley. Bro Wakas was clearly on to something..
Brother Wakas was really clear, no doubt.. I have seen and read his work, even though like many Intellectuals he does not like criticism that is dilemma, but he is fair in his approach, as you can see he has used very harsh words about me and I still respect him and his work..
You Jack are not more than average person who attacks personally and I am sorry to say the most senseless posts I have read so far are YOURS.
Many here have made personal attacks including you but I responded in sense of Humor, because I took it on lighter side..My replies to personal attacks are evidence for that..There is a point of view that I presented there is point of view you presented, Did I tried to force any one to wear Hijaab? I did not, so what is all the anger about?
just-a-muslim
I have already answered you, I will try to answer you again. -
Just-a-Muslim
I am still waiting for the answer from raajah (right?).......
where in the Koran does it say that hijab is the highest form of worship?
First of all correct your question and rather ask "Why did you say Hijaab is highest form of worship"
Because Allah has ordered it from the beginning and Allah likes women to cover their beauties, let us start from
Corinthians, chapter 11. Read verses 3-10.
But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying with his head covered, disgraces his head. But every woman praying or prophesying with her head uncovered disgraces her head, for it is the same as if she were shaven. For if a woman is not covered, let her be shaven. But if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head. A man indeed ought not to cover his head, because he is the image and glory of God. But woman is the glory of man. For man was not created for woman, but woman for man. This is why the woman ought to have a sign of authority over her head, because of the angels. -
Leyna
It's about you insisting on derailing this thread by insulting and patronizing people who don't share your opinion. Very rude.
Not at least with you, after you sending me back to Kitchen..through my stay of Raaajah at this forum I think you, Ayisha and Rasul Hamsa were the most do whom I interacted other than MAzhar, and I feel an affiliation towards you three, even though a "SPICY ONE" laugh
Mazhar is Such a serious person, I doubt even if he laughs a moment or two peace -
rotfl
Maybe The Caveman was on to something.
exactly. ;D
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Brothers and Sisters,
I would advice you to not ridicule or mock anyone. This is not something I am just telling you to follow. This is something I believe in as well. And I should follow it too. The truth is that it is not compatible with the Quran to ridicule or mock anyone
Quran 4911
O you who believe, let not any people ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names; miserable indeed is the name of wickedness after attaining faith. And anyone who does not repent, then these are the transgressors.I have read many posts in this thread and I did not want to post here because of all the vain and nonsense talk going on. However, it came to a point were I had to remind you of what the Quran says. I saw injustice going on here. As monotheists, shouldn't we champion Justice? I am sure people here were gone by the wind and forgot the values of the Quran. But I would advice you to never forget it again.
Peace and love
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Brothers and Sisters,
I would advice you to not ridicule or mock anyone. This is not something I am just telling you to follow. This is something I believe in as well. And I should follow it too. The truth is that it is not compatible with the Quran to ridicule or mock anyone
Quran 4911
O you who believe, let not any people ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names; miserable indeed is the name of wickedness after attaining faith. And anyone who does not repent, then these are the transgressors.I have read many posts in this thread and I did not want to post here because of all the vain and nonsense talk going on. However, it came to a point were I had to remind you of what the Quran says. I saw injustice going on here. As monotheists, shouldn't we champion Justice? I am sure people here were gone by the wind and forgot the values of the Quran. But I would advice you to never forget it again.
Peace and love
thank you for the reminder, brother david!
let's really finish this thread, since it is not going anywhere lately..i'm very glad i have 'gotten to know' some of you, see y'all in other (productive) threads! group
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Sirius
Well, that is what you think. You have all the freedom in the world to do so..
But why don't you give it a try and show me how it is refuted, but by your own understanding and not showing me links to the threads of others.Sirius
Come on, stop clutching the straws.. I have explained it to you many times. You don't even have attiquetes, that even if some one says Sorry to you..still keep on digging the dig.-
My own understanding of the verses used to justify head covering is very simple, and I think I have repeated it plenty of times in this thread and my own thread on removing the Hijab and that is, there is no direct instruction to cover the hair therefore whilst I don't see covering the hair as wrong, I do think it is wrong to push it as compulsory and divine when a direct instruction to cover the hair is not given.
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No, I felt that I had to explain myself and point out where you were wrong. You apologised and then attempted to carry on reiterating the point you had apologised for which sort of negates any apology. If I skipped the etiquette of accepting an apology perhaps you may have skipped the etiquette of giving one.
The jesting has been taken in good humour as I can see and all are giving as good as they get.
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Just-a-Muslim
First of all correct your question and rather ask "Why did you say Hijaab is highest form of worship"
Because Allah has ordered it from the beginning and Allah likes women to cover their beauties, let us start from
Corinthians, chapter 11. Read verses 3-10.
But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying with his head covered, disgraces his head. But every woman praying or prophesying with her head uncovered disgraces her head, for it is the same as if she were shaven. For if a woman is not covered, let her be shaven. But if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head. A man indeed ought not to cover his head, because he is the image and glory of God. But woman is the glory of man. For man was not created for woman, but woman for man. This is why the woman ought to have a sign of authority over her head, because of the angels.Why do so many men wear a turban or skullcap during prayer then? it is Jewish custom for a man to cover his head also, again also not found in Torah. Do you take Christ as your head considering you are giving this verse?
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Brothers and Sisters,
I would advice you to not ridicule or mock anyone. This is not something I am just telling you to follow. This is something I believe in as well. And I should follow it too. The truth is that it is not compatible with the Quran to ridicule or mock anyone
Quran 4911
O you who believe, let not any people ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names; miserable indeed is the name of wickedness after attaining faith. And anyone who does not repent, then these are the transgressors.I have read many posts in this thread and I did not want to post here because of all the vain and nonsense talk going on. However, it came to a point were I had to remind you of what the Quran says. I saw injustice going on here. As monotheists, shouldn't we champion Justice? I am sure people here were gone by the wind and forgot the values of the Quran. But I would advice you to never forget it again.
Peace and love
hello David
May be you are too sensitive or new to discussion forums, but let me assure you that we have about 7 moderators on this forum and they do keep an eye here, edit/delete posts if something goes against the forum rules. So far no warning is issued on this thread means everything is just fine. So be cool no one is ridiculing anyone!
when people fail to understand something and try being over clever Allah gets angry too
Allah mocks disbelievers 215
Allah says disbelievers are "deaf, dumb, blind,".
Allah says; those who dont believe in Quran are WICKED
Allah says disbelievers hearts are SICKENED
disbelievers are foolsetc etc...
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Brothers and Sisters,
I would advice you to not ridicule or mock anyone. This is not something I am just telling you to follow. This is something I believe in as well. And I should follow it too. The truth is that it is not compatible with the Quran to ridicule or mock anyone
Quran 4911
O you who believe, let not any people ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names; miserable indeed is the name of wickedness after attaining faith. And anyone who does not repent, then these are the transgressors.I have read many posts in this thread and I did not want to post here because of all the vain and nonsense talk going on. However, it came to a point were I had to remind you of what the Quran says. I saw injustice going on here. As monotheists, shouldn't we champion Justice? I am sure people here were gone by the wind and forgot the values of the Quran. But I would advice you to never forget it again.
Peace and love
The quran is not a hippie handbook, I am afraid.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600900.msg253367#msg253367Secondly, this is totally impractical to use this verse in this fashion. No matter what anyone does we are just to stand there and take it?! THAT is injustice and totally impractical.
Lest we forget 2158-65. But what does Abraham know? See also 4148.
This is not something I am just telling you to follow. This is something I believe in as well. And I should follow it too.
That's a bit pretentious.
EDIT TO ADD
4911 uses 'qawm', qawm means collective individuals, as in a community. Not select individuals. So, if anything this refers to racism.
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Ok Rajaah,
You said that a woman covering her head is the highest form of worship. I believe that I have the right to ask where did God say that, which you seem to be avoiding the question.
Nevertheless, let's go with your question of 'why did you say that...'? you referred me to verses in the Bible NOT the Koran.
First of all, I question verses that you referenced as whether it was God who said it. Now, I am holding you accountable in the presence of God of telling me that it was God who said what is written in Corinthians.
My questioning of the bible as word of God is based on what the Koran says about Jesus that clearly is not the son of God.
And here is what the Bible says John chapter 1 verse 48-50
How do you know me?" Nathanael asked. Jesus answered, "I saw you while you were still under the fig tree before Philip called you."
49Then Nathanael declared, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel." 50Jesus said, "You believe because I told you I saw you under the fig tree. You shall see greater things than that." 51He then added, "I tell you the truth, you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man."Either the Koran is not believable word of God or the Bible is. So, which one rajaah do you believe in?
Here's what I believe in. In 7th grade, I went to confession and confessed to the priest that I am not a christian. The Bible that we have today is part word of God and a whole lot of HADITHS of what other said about Jesus or supposedly saw and heard Jesus say. Like I said, I do not follow hadiths.
Let's take the verse that you referenced. By the way, the head covering is both physical and spiritual and carries more than the meaning of piece of cloth covering a woman's head.
This verse does say it is a disgrace but
- where does it say that it is the highest form of worship?
- also, it is addressing a woman to cover her head during worship. not all other times which was the primary discussion of the topic in this thread.
The verse in the Corianthians states But if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head
So, if a woman has short hair or is bald then she doesn't have to cover her hair. If you read further down, verse 14 -1514Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 15But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her for her hair is given her for a covering.
The verses are talking about woman having long hair and covering them.
Again, rajaah you seem to side step, avoid answering my questions. and well, you haven't actually answered your own question.
Listen, I am not here to win an 'argument'. I am not in argument with you and neither is it about ego. When people go around saying things and attributing to God telling others how to live, behave, etc, then ya...I will call you out on what you say. And at the end, it is YOU who has to face God.
(By the way, I am searching for passages where it was Jesus who said He is the Son of God. In the above verse it is Nathanael who supposedly calls Jesus son of God. If you read the verse 50 carefully, it ends with Jesus saying "Son of Man". Has anyone asked a Christian about this? Did Jesus say that he is the 'son of God' or did other's attibute that to him like nathaneal in the above verse. In the Gospel according to John, I didn't come across a verse where Jesus says that he is the son of God. He speaks of 'son of man' but again......still in the process of seeking knowledge. if anyone can refer me to the passages where Jesus actually said that he is the son of God, please do let me know).
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(By the way, I am searching for passages where it was Jesus who said He is the Son of God. In the above verse it is Nathanael who supposedly calls Jesus son of God. If you read the verse 50 carefully, it ends with Jesus saying "Son of Man". Has anyone asked a Christian about this? Did Jesus say that he is the 'son of God' or did other's attibute that to him like nathaneal in the above verse. In the Gospel according to John, I didn't come across a verse where Jesus says that he is the son of God. He speaks of 'son of man' but again......still in the process of seeking knowledge. if anyone can refer me to the passages where Jesus actually said that he is the son of God, please do let me know).
There isnt one, Jesus never called himself the son of God, always the son of man.
Raajah wont answer your question because he cant, he got too carried away telling everyone else what to do he found himself attributing this to God and is now desperately searching for a way to back it up, he wont find it though. peace
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Just a Muslim
The verses are talking about woman having long hair and covering them.
Again, rajaah you seem to side step, avoid answering my questions. and well, you haven't actually answered your own questionWhen you reply, read first the whole post you are replying to, That is a request. I mentioned beauty and for the majority the beauty is in hair and not in baldness. Then I said let us start with...
where does it say that it is the highest form of worship?
To obey Allah's command is the Highest form of worship, if you only knew..
Say "Obey Allah and the Messenger." But if they turn away, then Allah does not like the disbelievers.and to cover up is one Command of Allah.
I don't believe that Jesus any where said that he is Son of God, as most of Muslims want to take it. I will give you my opnion on that as you asked in later part. Meanwhile let us see the importance of what we were talking about
Genisis 2465
"Who is that man walking through the fields to meet us?" she asked the servant. And he replied, "It is my master." So Rebekah covered her face with her veil.Actualy the problem here if you noticed, (since you seem sincere to discuss) is that difference of reasons for covering the head between Islam and John, or Allah or John, the Command of covering is no doubt from Allah but
The explicit purpose of the Christian woman"s head covering, as stated by Paul, is that it is a sign of man"s authority over woman. The explicit purpose of Islamic hijab is modesty. Strange how so many Westerners think that the purpose of hijab is a symbol of male authority and they keep on to force this point of view, on us, offcourse this is understandable.David-K
Standing at the Top as usual, with balanced comments..hope more and more will see this in future, there is a little chance that David-K agrees with the point of view of Maluana Madaudi, or me on this particular subject but he has courage to speak the truth, even he makes angry the majority, and I have firm believe that Majority is not always on right path. Salute to You David for calling spade a spade.
Just a Muslim
If you read the John 173
Now this is eternal life that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.