new article - Quranic terms defined

Mazhar

It is a noun. By type, did you mean proper or common?

I mean its categorization according to your perception which helps assign it the meanings as you suggested, whether a Substative noun; or a Masdar -abstract noun since it attributes meanings to something else other than itself, or it signifies occurence of an action; or is it a Derivative noun, if so what exactly is its nature-whether participle, or verbal adjective, or a Noun of place or some other type.

Wakas

peace all,

The findings are pointing to either of two options, listed in terms of likelihood (although both are somewhat similar)

al maSJD al haram =

the restricted/sanctified/inviolable time (of) SJD
the restricted/sanctified/inviolable implemented/actioned SJD

Of course, in the article I will also address the common/traditional position Al Masjid Al Haram.

Mazhar

peace all,

The findings are pointing to either of two options, listed in terms of likelihood (although both are somewhat similar)

al maSJD al haram =

the restricted/sanctified/inviolable time (of) SJD
the restricted/sanctified/inviolable implemented/actioned SJD

Of course, in the article I will also address the common/traditional position Al Masjid Al Haram.

Both are patently incorrect. It is NOT Time Adverb, but a location noun, derived from the verb, signifying the place where the action contained in the verb is performed.

Wakas

peace Mazhar,

Both are patently incorrect. It is NOT Time Adverb, but a location noun, derived from the verb, signifying the place where the action contained in the verb is performed.

Not according to brother Anwar. Also, a time-period could be seen as a place where the action of the verb is performed. For example, if I work 9am-5pm, the work took place in this time-period.

However, there are two critical flaws in your above statement

other words which have the same form as maSJD, such as maQAM are not always places.
place simply does not fit and is illogical in several occurrences of maSJD, especially al maSJD al HaRaM

And logic will always outrank a so-called grammar rule invented post-Quran.

Bro Mazhar, I have asked you very simple questions in the past and you have almost always failed to answer them. I have asked this question before, but I will ask again

Does every word in The Quran with the same form as maSJD always mean a place? Yes or No.

Mazhar

peace Mazhar,

Not according to brother Anwar. Also, a time-period could be seen as a place where the action of the verb is performed. For example, if I work 9am-5pm, the work took place in this time-period.

However, there are two critical flaws in your above statement

other words which have the same form as maSJD, such as maQAM are not always places.
place simply does not fit and is illogical in several occurrences of maSJD, especially al maSJD al HaRaM

And logic will always outrank a so-called grammar rule invented post-Quran.

Bro Mazhar, I have asked you very simple questions in the past and you have almost always failed to answer them. I have asked this question before, but I will ask again

Does every word in The Quran with the same form as maSJD always mean a place? Yes or No.

Peace Waqas,

I could never imagine that the above is the premises of study of a man like Waqas.

A time-period is not considered or thought as location, since time is a continuous process while location is fixed with reference to surroundings. Both have different category of words. Noun of time has the same pattern as the Noun of place. The Noun of time differs from the noun of location in that it is derived only from the verb. Noun of location can also be derived from Substantive Noun on the pattern of .

To make things simple, may I say that a place/location is that where one can enter in and also get out of it or made to get out of it. Now see the use of word at all 17 occurrences and everywhere you will find it only as Noun of Place.

Does every word in The Quran with the same form as maSJD always mean a place? Yes or No.

Please quote few words which you think resemble in form and mean the same thing as location/place.

And logic will always outrank a so-called grammar rule invented post-Quran.

Please clear one misconception, grammer rules are not INVEVTED with reference to any language, they are only organized in systematic order for the convenience of non natives to any language and for writing purposes. Logic with reference to understanding a book seems a meaningless utterence if the perception of the language of that book is not there.

Wakas

peace Mazhar,

Thanks for the reply.

A time-period is not considered or thought as location, since time is a continuous process while location is fixed with reference to surroundings. Both have different category of words.

I said "time-period", i.e. a period of time that is fixed, NOT continuous. And in the example I am talking about it is fixed with reference to surroundings

al maSJD al HaRaM = the inviolable time (of) acknowledgement/submission/honouring/paying respect

It refers to the time-period of inviolability, i.e. the restricted months (covering a location), which are fixed, not continuous. That is my working hypothesis.

Please quote few words which you think resemble in form and mean the same thing as location/place.

Let's start with maqam. What say you?

By invention of grammar, I mean fixed/rigid rules, that were codified post-Quran. Besides, this is not even an issue of grammar, AFAIK what I'm saying is grammatically possible and plausible. Perhaps Ayman/Anwar/Samia/etc can clarify further.

Mazhar

Let's start with maqam. What say you?

The problem of putting Arabic words in English alphabet is that it may or may not represent the Arabic word. In Arabic a noun never ends with "Jezm" i.e. vowel-less consonant.

So ----- is a Noun of place, and verbal noun , a place of standing; position/standing in society.

its meaning- a place of living/stationing-its verbal noun is

al maSJD al HaRaM = the inviolable time (of) acknowledgement

Pl give it a second thought, may be you find it conveys nothing. And do you turn your face towards "the inviolable time (of) acknowledgement"?

Wakas

By "maqam" I was referring to these occurrences 2125, 3;97, 5107, 1071, 1414, 1779, 1973, 2658, 2739, 37164, 4426, 4451, 5546, 7940

Can you tell me out of the above occurrences which are in the same form as maSJD?

And do you turn your face towards "the inviolable time (of) acknowledgement"?

This and all other occurrences will be discussed in an upcoming article. It may take several months however.

By the way, I just read your translation of 2142-152, and not only did it not make sense in some parts, you had to manipulate and insert interpretations to make it possible.

I am more than happy for people to read and compare differing views and consider what makes most sense etc.

Mazhar

By "maqam" I was referring to these occurrences 2125, 3;97, 5107, 1071, 1414, 1779, 1973, 2658, 2739, 37164, 4426, 4451, 5546, 7940

Can you tell me out of the above occurrences which are in the same form as maSJD?

They all denote what I worte earlier

So ----- is a Noun of place, and verbal noun , a place of standing; position/standing in society.

its meaning- a place of living/stationing-its verbal noun is
May add "my stand point-1071".

By the way, I just read your translation of 2142-152, and not only did it not make sense in some parts, you had to manipulate and insert interpretations to make it possible.

Pl may I know which part did not make sense to you, and what is inserted therein to manipulate a certain sense?

Wakas

I'm still not clear on what you mean. Are those occurrences I listed the same form as maSJD? If so, all I need to do is find one occurrence which is not a place to disprove your point?

But you have now added "position/standing in society" which is not a literal/physical place.

Pl may I know which part did not make sense to you, and what is inserted therein to manipulate a certain sense?

There is a lot, so I will have to be brief

What is that which has made them turn away from their Qib'laa'tae, one upon which they henceforth were?

I assume here you mean some believers used to face east, some west?

For Allah are the East and the West

Quranic evidence?

We will give you the guardianship of

Insertion.

turn face to face/confront to that Mosque, wherever you are/get out/away from it.

Problematic translation.

that this is a fact from their Sustainer Lord,

Insertion, and may not even be grammatically correct. It is not "this", it is "hu/it".

your Qib'laa'taa

Quranic evidence?

And you will never follow/be follower of their Qib'laa'taa

Versus earlier statement

"What is that which has made them turn away from their Qib'laa'tae, one upon which they henceforth were?"

Were or weren't they following their qiblah? Or do you mean from now on? Is this in the Arabic?

And neither they, the two segments of People of Book, will ever be practical followers of Qib'laa'taa of each other ;

Two segments? Practical? Is this in the Arabic?
Explain translation.

those whom We had earlier given the Book they recognize it

it = the Qur'aan
Evidence?

Since/and each one has a point of interest/goal/objective on which he focuses/diverts his face,

Underlined part is where in the Arabic?

Since/and each one has a point of interest/goal/objective on which he focuses/diverts his face,
therefore you people hasten towards doing the best things.

Your translation has no 'cause and effect' link with "fa".
The logic implies each one has a direction they take, implying this is ok, which contradicts what came before. According to tradition, it is specifying a specific direction as the only right one. Hence why you likely inserted what you did in an attempt to explain it away. Your translation gives it away however, by use of "towards". God is giving us the right direction to take.

And

Insertion. Probably because you know at this point in history, as the traditional story goes, the Kabbah was filled with idols!
Ahh, I see now why you have translated "thereafter for reason of being outside/away, turn face to face the Sacred Mosque". So "fa" means "thereafter" now?

so that for people no argument/counter reason/ accusation lies against you people,

Makes little sense. Explain.

Mazhar

We will give you the guardianship of

Insertion.
Wakas.

You are referring to this word http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.064/12.gif in 2144

May I give you the litteral translation of this!!

"For this reason We swear/assure you that certainly We will give you the guardianship of the Qib'laa'tan".

It seems you do not understand the structure of this compound word, and am sure you are certainly not aware that it is response to elided swearing/oath.

Prefixed conjunction which shows cause/reason and effect. "" ""

Emphatic Particle. "

Verb Doubly transitive; Imperfect; First Person; Plural; Emphatic; ; Subject pronoun hidden

Suffixed Object Pronoun Second Person; masculine; singular, in accusative state; First Object

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/00028.%20Qabal%20Qaaf%20Ba%20Laam%20Before%20confront/9.gif

Noun Indefinite; singular; feminine; accusative. Second object of verb

Word by word analysis of 2144

Wakas

So you have translated

fala nuwalliyannaka qiblatan

as

For this reason We swear/assure you that certainly We will give you the guardianship of the Qib'laa'tan;

Please cite the reference for

the verb being doubly transitive
qiblatan being the 2nd object of the verb
the verb can mean what you said it means, e.g. any other Quranic occurrences.

Simple questions.

And also please respond to the rest of my questions.

Mazhar

Since/and each one has a point of interest/goal/objective on which he focuses/diverts his face,
Underlined part is where in the Arabic?

Since/and each one has a point of interest/goal/objective on which he focuses/diverts his face,
therefore you people hasten towards doing the best things.
Your translation has no 'cause and effect' link with "fa".

The logic implies each one has a direction they take, implying this is ok, which contradicts what came before. According to tradition, it is specifying a specific direction as the only right one. Hence why you likely inserted what you did in an attempt to explain it away. Your translation gives it away however, by use of "towards". God is giving us the right direction to take

Peace Wakas,

No personal logic and implying. The sentence of the Book needs to be translated as it is. The problem is that many people merely see the words of an Ayat and start getting an idea out of it. On the other hand they do not do it with any other book of other languages since there they see the whole sentence and differentiate between subject and predicate and all other elements and their mutual relationship and then perceive what the speaker/writer had conveyed/stated.

An example is here
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.148.gif
002.148
YUSUFALI To each is a goal to which Allah turns him; then strive together (as in a race) Towards all that is good. Wheresoever ye are, Allah will bring you Together. For Allah Hath power over all things.
PICKTHAL And each one hath a goal toward which he turneth; so vie with one another in good works. Wheresoever ye may be, Allah will bring you all together. Lo! Allah is Able to do all things.
SHAKIR And every one has a direction to which he should turn, therefore hasten to (do) good works; wherever you are, Allah will bring you all together; surely Allah has power over all things.

P.M 2148 And to each is a direction that he will take, so you shall race towards good deeds. Wherever you may be, God will bring you all together. God is capable of all things.

While reading Arabic sentence from right to left, they have put it in English from left to right taking all words in a row. None has taken care that the Arabic sentence is an inverted nominal sentence where the predicate is fronted and the subject is delayed.

Mazhar A. Nurani /And notice that a point of interest/goal/objective is the hallmark for each and every one/group. He is the one who focuses/diverts his affiliation towards that.

Word by word analysis-relationship of words of the sentence

Mazhar

Please cite the reference for

the verb being doubly transitive
qiblatan being the 2nd object of the verb

Simple questions.

Questions are simple and relate to very basic level of knowledge of Arabic. And if the above two are correctly perceived the third question will perhaps get the answer.

This diagram of Leeds may make the things simpler that the verb is doubly transitive

http//corpus.quran.com/treebank.jsp?chapter=2&verse=144&token=7

Wakas

peace Mazhar,

Thanks for the reply.

In the doubly transitive verb, what are the two objects?
And cite another Quranic occurrence for the meaning you give it.

You have now significantly changed your translation of 2148.

Mazhar

In the doubly transitive verb, what are the two objects?

Peace Wakas,

In diagram it is mentioned which means "direct object of the verb". First object is Personal Pronoun "' and the second is . It is always easy to determine the object of a verb in a sentence since it will always be in accusative case and state.

After knowing this, does what you call logic not suggest that the doer of the act, "We" i.e. Allah is telling to the addressee, who is the first object, about giving the guardian ship of second object ? And does this logic not suggest that a man on getting control of a thing of his liking feels persistently happy and pleased? The next information is that on fulfilling of promise "that will make you persistently pleased"

I hope you already know that an imperfect verb with Heavy noun of emphasis relates not to present but only to future. Therefore this denotes only a promise of doing that act in the future from the point in time of speaking/address. And you know it from the Qur'aan that this promise was later fulfilled by the grant of victory and politico-administrative control of Mecca.

Wakas

peace Mazhar,

Thanks for the explanation, however you will need to clarify something for me

Do you mean to say the verb ("give guardianship&quot is acting on two objects?

Also "give guardianship of the Qibla" and "this promise was later fulfilled by the grant of victory and politico-administrative control of Mecca. " makes no sense because "Qiblah" does not equate to that. Please give us your definition of "Qiblah".

Mazhar

peace Mazhar,

Thanks for the explanation, however you will need to clarify something for me

Do you mean to say the verb ("give guardianship&quot is acting on two objects?

Also "give guardianship of the Qibla" and "this promise was later fulfilled by the grant of victory and politico-administrative control of Mecca. " makes no sense because "Qiblah" does not equate to that. Please give us your definition of "Qiblah".

It seems you have not yet seen the breakup of the word. It comprises

(1) Prefixed conjunction which shows cause/reason and effect.
(2) Emphatic Particle,
(3) Verb is only this Imperfect; First Person; Plural; with Heavy/Emphatic Noon; Form-II; doubly transitive. "We will certainly give you the guardianship/make you the guardian"
(4) Suffixed Object Pronoun Second Person; masculine; singular, in accusative state; First Object who will be made the "Wali", of what Noun Indefinite; singular; feminine; accusative. Second object of verb

And on fulfilment of this promise what will be its effect!!
"that will make you persistently pleased"

You had recently uploaded a book wherein author has discussed about relationships signified by certain words. The word Wali signifies a relationship between atleast two and denotes nearness and/or companionship with or without affection and love. Its use as a guardian also denotes relationship between two.

Wakas

Ok, I think I understand what you are saying, but that does not mean I agree with it.

The reason I asked you for evidence of the "give you guardianship" meaning was this root occurs many times in The Quran, hence I was wondering if you knew of another occurrence of the verb with the same meaning you used. I assume by the lack of reference, there is none.

Now, please answer the rest of my questions.

Thanks.

Mazhar

Ok, I think I understand what you are saying, but that does not mean I agree with it.

The reason I asked you for evidence of the "give you guardianship" meaning was this root occurs many times in The Quran, hence I was wondering if you knew of another occurrence of the verb with the same meaning you used. I assume by the lack of reference, there is none.

Now, please answer the rest of my questions.

Thanks.

I thought you might have recalled the very basic perception and meanings infolded in the Root . It denotes to get near and close to someone else. For this reason Wali is used to refer to a protector, helper, guardian, ally.

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.282r.gif
or is not capable to dictate, then let the guardian of his interests dictate it with equity;

002.282
YUSUFALI O ye who believe! When ye deal with each other, in transactions involving future obligations in a fixed period of time, reduce them to writing Let a scribe write down faithfully as between the parties let not the scribe refuse to write as Allah Has taught him, so let him write. Let him who incurs the liability dictate, but let him fear His Lord Allah, and not diminish aught of what he owes. If they party liable is mentally deficient, or weak, or unable Himself to dictate, Let his guardian dictate faithfully,
PICKTHAL then let the guardian of his interests dictate in (terms of) equity.
P.M then let his guardian dictate with justice;

The verb is also used to make someone as the controller, maintainer, organizer, caretaker, or to govern its affairs.