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  4. new article - Quranic terms defined

new article - Quranic terms defined

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • H Offline
    H Offline
    herbman
    wrote on last edited by
    #321

    Peace Mazhar,

    Sorry to be the first to tell you this but unfortunately the original Arabic is a conjecture, lie. Moreover, your translation "Allah sent blessings, help, approval, to him " is incomplete. What happened to " "? Why did you cut it off and not translate it?

    Can you please translate the complete statement so that you and everyone can see for sure if it is a lie as I am 100% sure or not?

    Peace and all best wishes,

    Ayman

    Peace Ayman,

    is the "wa salam" another verb????
    How would you then translate , i mean word by word as official translation is "Praise aand peace on him" or smth like that.
    And I would be very greatfull to have your translation of 3356.

    Peace

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    • A Offline
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      afridi220
      wrote on last edited by
      #322

      Generally Accepted Translations of the Meaning

      Muhammad Asad Verily, God and His angels bless the Prophet O you who have attained to faith, bless him and give yourselves up in utter self-surrender! #x21E8

      M. M. Pickthall Lo! Allah and His angels shower blessings on the Prophet. O ye who believe! Ask blessings on him and salute him with a worthy salutation. #x21E8

      Shakir Surely Allah and His angels bless the Prophet; O you who believe! call for (Divine) blessings on him and salute him with a (becoming) salutation. #x21E8

      Yusuf Ali Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect. #x21E8

      Allah and His angels extend mercy and blessings to the Prophet. O you whose hearts have been touched with the divine hand invoke Allah's mercy and blessings on him and pray "Peace be upon him and blessed be he with all divine favours". #x21E8

      God and His Angels reach out to the prophet. O you who believe, you shall reach out to him, and yield completely. #x21E8

      Abdel Haleem God and His angels bless the Prophet- so, you who believe, bless him too and give him greetings of peace. #x21E8

      Abdul Majid Daryabadi Verily Allah and His angels send their benedictions upon the prophet. O ye who believe! send your benedictions upon him and salute him with a goodly Salutation. #x21E8

      Ahmed Ali That truly God and His angels bless and compliment on the prophet. You, you those who believed, pray and call for God's blessing on him (the prophet) and great greetings. #x21E8

      Aisha Bewley Allah and His angels call down blessings on the Prophet. You who have iman! call down blessings on him and ask for complete peace and safety for him. #x21E8

      Ali ?nal Surely God and His angels bless the Prophet (He always treats him with His special mercy, with the angels praying to Him to grant him the highest station of praise with Him and for the decisive victory of his Religion). O you who believe, invoke the blessings of God on him, and pray to God to bestow His peace on him, greeting him with the best greeting. (Love and follow him with utmost sincerity and faithfulness, and give yourselves to his way with perfect submission.) #x21E8

      Ali Quli Qara'i Indeed Allah and His angels bless the Prophet; O you who have faith! Invoke blessings on him and invoke Peace upon him in a worthy manner. #x21E8

      Amatul Rahman Omar Verily, Allah and His angels bless this Prophet. Believers! you (also) invoke Allah's blessings upon him and salute (him) with the salutation of peace. #x21E8

      Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali Surely Allah and His Angels shower Serenity (Literally shower prayers) on the Prophet. O you who have believed, pray for (benediction on) him, and submit in full submission. #x21E8

      Muhammad Sarwar God showers His blessings upon the Prophet and the angels seek forgiveness for him. Believers, pray for the Prophet and greet him with, "Peace be with you." #x21E8

      Muhammad Taqi Usmani Surely, Allah and His angels send blessings to the Prophet. O you who believe, do pray Allah to bless him, and send your Salam (prayer for his being in peace) to him in abundance. #x21E8

      Shabbir Ahmed Verily, Allah and His angels bless the Messenger and support his Mission (3343). O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! Bless him and give yourself up to him and his Mission in total submission. (465), (7157). #x21E8

      Syed Vickar Ahamed Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet O you who believe! Send your blessings on him (the Prophet), and salute him with all respect. #x21E8

      Umm Muhammad (Sahih International) Indeed, Allah confers blessing upon the Prophet, and His angels . O you who have believed, ask blessing upon him and ask peace. #x21E8

      Farook Malik Verily, God and His angels bless the Prophet O you who have attained to faith, bless him and give yourselves up in utter self-surrender! #x21E8

      Controversial, deprecated, or status undetermined works

      Bijan Moeinian God and His angels shower the Prophet (Mohammad) with their blessings. If you are a believer, you, too, should respect him and follow his orders to the point. #x21E8

      Faridul Haque Indeed Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet; O People who Believe! Send blessings and abundant salutations upon him. (Everlasting peace and unlimited blessings be upon the Holy Prophet Mohammed.) #x21E8

      Hasan Al-Fatih Qaribullah Allah and His angels praise and venerate the Prophet. Believers, praise and venerate him and pronounce peace upon him in abundance. #x21E8

      Maulana Muhammad Ali Surely Allah and His angels bless the Prophet. O you who believe, call for blessings on him and salute him with a (becoming) salutation. #x21E8

      Muhammad Ahmed - Samira God and His angels shower their blessings on the Prophet. O believers, you should also send your blessings on him, and salute him with a worthy greeting. #x21E8

      Sher Ali ALLAH sends down HIS blessings on the Prophet and HIS angels pray for him. O ye who believe, you too should invoke HIS blessings on him and salute him with the salutation of peace. #x21E8

      Yusuf Ali (org.) God and His angels send blessings on the Prophet O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect. #x21E8

      Rashad Khalifa GOD and His angels help and support the prophet. O you who believe, you shall help and support him, and regard him as he should be regarded. #x21E8

      Non-Muslim and/or Orientalist works

      Arthur John Arberry God and His angels bless the Prophet. O believers, do you also bless him, and pray him peace. #x21E8

      Edward Henry Palmer Verily, God and His angels pray for the prophet. O ye who believe! pray for him and salute him with a salutation! #x21E8

      George Sale Verily God and his angels bless the prophet O true believers, do ye also bless him, and salute him with a respectful salutation. #x21E8
      J
      ohn Medows Rodwell Verily, God and His Angels bless the Prophet! Bless ye Him, O Believers, and salute Him with salutations of Peace.

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      • H Offline
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        herbman
        wrote on last edited by
        #323

        Thanks Afridi,

        You made me remember to check FM translation

        3356
        God and His angels make contact with the prophet. O you who believe, you shall make contact with him, and comply completely.

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        • M Offline
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          Mazhar
          wrote on last edited by
          #324

          551-2 itself

          Verse 7113 is a good example as well where the subject comes before the verb referring back to the

          http//c0022506.cdn1.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/7_113.png

          Brother Mazhar

          You owe me a reply for the post below. Where are you?

          Sorry Wayfinder for the delay, yesterday I had gone to Lahore. I am just back.

          Recommencing/Conjunction particle-
          Verb Perfect, third person; SINGULAR; masculine.
          Noun Definite; masculine; PLURAL; NOMINATIVE. This is the SUBJECT of Verb . When the subject is mentioned specifically after the verb and even if it is plural, the verb will always be singular and there will be no subject pronoun in the verb.
          Proper noun in accusative state; object of the verb.

          Verb Perfect; masculine; third person + attached pronoun for third person; masculine; plural, subject of the verb referring back to plural noun .

          If you see any syntactic analysis you will find that the subject of the verb is either suffixed to the verb referring back to the noun mentioned earlier which will always match to that noun in plurality or is specifically mentioned after the verb which may or may not match in plurality.

          http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=7&verse=113#(71131)

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          • W Offline
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            WayFinder
            wrote on last edited by
            #325

            Sorry Wayfinder for the delay, yesterday I had gone to Lahore. I am just back.

            Recommencing/Conjunction particle-
            Verb Perfect, third person; SINGULAR; masculine.
            Noun Definite; masculine; PLURAL; NOMINATIVE. This is the SUBJECT of Verb . When the subject is mentioned specifically after the verb and even if it is plural, the verb will always be singular and there will be no subject pronoun in the verb.
            Proper noun in accusative state; object of the verb.

            Verb Perfect; masculine; third person + attached pronoun for third person; masculine; plural, subject of the verb referring back to plural noun .

            If you see any syntactic analysis you will find that the subject of the verb is either suffixed to the verb referring back to the noun mentioned earlier which will always match to that noun in plurality or is specifically mentioned after the verb which may or may not match in plurality.

            http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=7&verse=113#(71131)

            Brother Mazhar,

            Thank you for your reply and lateness does not matter. However, I would like you to spare me the technicals unless they can tell me something different from what I already know.

            Answer these questions please

            After all what you wrote,

            1. Did it change the face that the subject of the verb (qaaloo) is other than Saharah(magicians)?

            If yes, then you can continue...

            If No, then just accept it that the subject can very well appear in front of the verb and it is infact very usual usage as well... You asked me to bring proof from quran and this is what I did...

            You do not have any need to look for dwameer mustatir since the faa3il is zaahir and it is saharah.

            This is a clear proof that the subject of the verb is infact before the verb in that verse.. even after the analysis, it does not change anything to this fact. Had the subject been ommitted, then you could have speculate with

            You need to be practical and not stick to the book... Arabic is first of all a logical language.

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            • M Offline
              M Offline
              Mazhar
              wrote on last edited by
              #326

              You need to be practical and not stick to the book... Arabic is first of all a logical language.

              And how it seems logical? Because of its principles. And the principle is strict grammer rule that subject of the verb comes after the verb. The pronoun "Waw" referring to masculine, plural, third person is the subject of verb Qaloo. In no translation you will find it omitted. "They" said and it will leave no room for anyone to attribute it to anyone except those particular group of people who had come to Firaun. That is the precision of Arabic.

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              • W Offline
                W Offline
                WayFinder
                wrote on last edited by
                #327

                And how it seems logical? Because of its principles. And the principle is strict grammer rule that subject of the verb comes after the verb. The pronoun "Waw" referring to masculine, plural, third person is the subject of verb Qaloo. In no translation you will find it omitted. "They" said and it will leave no room for anyone to attribute it to anyone except those particular group of people who had come to Firaun. That is the precision of Arabic.

                I am asking you again, please answer clearly.. does it change the fact that the subject of the verb.. those who performed the action... those who perfected/completed the action... are the saharah/magicians... does all your explanation and technicals change this fact? Yes or No?

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                  Mazhar
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #328

                  I am asking you again, please answer clearly.. does it change the fact that the subject of the verb.. those who performed the action... those who perfected/completed the action... are the saharah/magicians... does all your explanation and technicals change this fact? Yes or No?

                  It refers to them only through the pronoun which is the subject of the verb. Can you deny this? Yes or no!

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                  • W Offline
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                    WayFinder
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #329

                    It refers to them only through the pronoun which is the subject of the verb. Can you deny this? Yes or no!

                    Firstly... why would you reply my question with another question? ... So please, as i stated... answer me clearly with a yes or no.

                    Secondly..Which pronoun? Do you see any?

                    Moreover, i have another example for you, check 1230 which says

                    http//c0022506.cdn1.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/12_30.png

                    Muhsin Khan - And women in the city said "The wife of Al-'Aziz is seeking to seduce her (slave) young man, indeed she loves him violently; verily we see her in plain error."

                    Another clear example of a subject coming before a verb. Would you deny that IS NOT the subject performing the action of seducing?

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                    • M Offline
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                      Mazhar
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #330

                      Wayfinder,

                      You are repeating the same old story. Here again "the wife of Aziz" is the subject of the noiminal sentence and not the subject of verb. The subject of the verb is the hidden pronoun, "singular third person, feminine" referring to her and the verb, subject and then the possessive phrase indicating the object of verb with suffixed pronoun referring back to "her" the subject of the nominal sentence is the predicate of nominal sentence.

                      It refers to her only through the pronoun which is the subject of the verb. Can you deny this? Yes or no!

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                      • R Offline
                        R Offline
                        Raaajah
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #331

                        Way Finder

                        You need to be practical and not stick to the book...

                        I have reserved this statement for another thread, where way finder seems to have different approach.
                        Strange.

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                        • W Offline
                          W Offline
                          WayFinder
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #332

                          Wayfinder,

                          You are repeating the same old story. Here again "the wife of Aziz" is the subject of the noiminal sentence and not the subject of verb. The subject of the verb is the hidden pronoun, "singular third person, feminine" referring to her and the verb, subject and then the possessive phrase indicating the object of verb with suffixed pronoun referring back to "her" the subject of the nominal sentence is the predicate of nominal sentence.

                          It refers to her only through the pronoun which is the subject of the verb. Can you deny this? Yes or no!

                          Which pronoun? Which hidden pronoun? No one is seeing any pronoun here...

                          SO, you are denying via your nominal sentence that the action of 'seducing' was not done by the Wife of Al-Aziz... right?

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                          • M Offline
                            M Offline
                            Mazhar
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #333

                            Which pronoun? Which hidden pronoun? No one is seeing any pronoun here...

                            SO, you are denying via your nominal sentence that the action of 'seducing' was not done by the Wife of Al-Aziz... right?

                            Way finder,

                            You are quite well understanding that I have given you the grammatical analysis of the sentence. The subject of the verb comes after the verb in Arabic and you have very well understood it. All translators used the pronoun as subject of the verb. We are talking about structure of the Arabic sentence and not that of structure of English translation where subject is mentioned before the verb. "She" is a pronoun referring back to the subject of the sentence about whom information is shared amongst women.

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                            • A Offline
                              A Offline
                              Ayisha
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #334

                              Way finder,

                              You are quite well understanding that I have given you the grammatical analysis of the sentence. The subject of the verb comes after the verb in Arabic and you have very well understood it. All translators used the pronoun as subject of the verb. We are talking about structure of the Arabic sentence and not that of structure of English translation where subject is mentioned before the verb. "She" is a pronoun referring back to the subject of the sentence about whom information is shared amongst women.

                              but the subject (wife of Aziz) has come before the verb (seduce), unless you are claiming she wasnt the subject until the pronoun 'ha' in 'her slave boy' made it so?

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                              • W Offline
                                W Offline
                                WayFinder
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #335

                                Way finder,

                                You are quite well understanding that I have given you the grammatical analysis of the sentence. The subject of the verb comes after the verb in Arabic and you have very well understood it. All translators used the pronoun as subject of the verb. We are talking about structure of the Arabic sentence and not that of structure of English translation where subject is mentioned before the verb. "She" is a pronoun referring back to the subject of the sentence about whom information is shared amongst women.

                                Peace Brother Mazhar,

                                I am willing to repeat myself once again and just skip me all the technicals by giving me the clear answer I need, whether YES or NO. If you are taking so much time to write the technicals trying to convince me that the subject is NOT in front of the verb... then it would be easier to write a big NO.. These technicals are not bring anything new here... No matter how many times you will write it... I hope you can understand... Because, even after you made all these explanations, none of them was SUCCESSFUL in CHANGING THE FACT that the person who DID/PERFORMED/COMPLETED the verb of SEDUCE was none other that the WIFE OF AL_AZIZ... So, I will ask you for the last time...

                                Do you agree that the person who made the action(subject) was the wife of Al-Aziz? YES OR NO?

                                Whether nominal or verbal sentence, the fact remains true. Therefore, you should not have stated that in arabic subject NEVER comes before the verb.. this is where I disagree...

                                Moreover, after giving it a second thought.. WHY did you ASK me to bring PROOF from the QURAN? What kind of proof were you expecting if not as those already presented to you.

                                Again.. Skip all the technicals.. I need just a clear answer... this is it.

                                Peace

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                                • W Offline
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                                  WayFinder
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #336

                                  but the subject (wife of Aziz) has come before the verb (seduce), unless you are claiming she wasnt the subject until the pronoun 'ha' in 'her slave boy' made it so?

                                  Whether a hidden pronoun is referring back to the WIFE or whatever else.. the fact does not change that it was the WIFE who did the action... therefore the subject... And you can see this as well.

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                                  • M Offline
                                    M Offline
                                    Mazhar
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #337

                                    but the subject (wife of Aziz) has come before the verb (seduce), unless you are claiming she wasnt the subject until the pronoun 'ha' in 'her slave boy' made it so?

                                    You are talking about the object of verb and not subject of verb. Let me quote the simple rule.
                                    If the subject is a pronoun referring to an antecedent , the verb will match the antecedent in plurality. If the subject is mentioned after the verb separately and specifically, the verb will be singular masculine or singular feminine despite the plurality of the subject.

                                    Look at the first verb of the Ayat "Qala". It is masculine, singular, third person perfect verb, and has built in hidden pronoun of third person singular masculine. But when the subject is mentioned after it separately and specifically it is not said to have pronoun of third person masculine singular referring to antecedent. After "Qala" is "" who are the subject of the verb.

                                    And these two words comprising a masculine singular verb and after it an indefinite plural feminine subject is telling something which do not find mention in almost all translations.

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                                    • W Offline
                                      W Offline
                                      WayFinder
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #338

                                      You are talking about the object of verb and not subject of verb. Let me quote the simple rule.
                                      If the subject is a pronoun referring to an antecedent , the verb will match the antecedent in plurality. If the subject is mentioned after the verb separately and specifically, the verb will be singular masculine or singular feminine despite the plurality of the subject.

                                      Look at the first verb of the Ayat "Qala". It is masculine, singular, third person perfect verb, and has built in hidden pronoun of third person singular masculine. But when the subject is mentioned after it separately and specifically it is not said to have pronoun of third person masculine singular referring to antecedent. After "Qala" is "" who are the subject of the verb.

                                      And these two words comprising a masculine singular verb and after it an indefinite plural feminine subject is telling something which do not find mention in almost all translations.

                                      As if I did know all of this already... Anyways,I think it would be foolish on my part to question you again on this... Whenever you decide to give me a clear answer instead of the i3raab... feel free to do so...

                                      Peace

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                                      • M Offline
                                        M Offline
                                        Mazhar
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #339

                                        Whether nominal or verbal sentence, the fact remains true. Therefore, you should not have stated that in arabic subject NEVER comes before the verb.. this is where I disagree...

                                        You keep insisting from the point of view of English grammer where the subject may mean only one thing. In Arabic the "subject" is referred to two things, in nominal sentence it is the translation of "" and for "" i.e. the doer of act/verb is also translated as "subject of verb". And the Subject of Verb is always after the verb, either as suffixed/hidden pronoun referring back to the antecedent or separate noun, for which the rules are different, as mentioned earlier. Only because of this there can never be any confusion in understanding the whole sentence alongwith subordinate clauses.

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                                        • W Offline
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                                          WayFinder
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #340

                                          You keep insisting from the point of view of English grammer where the subject may mean only one thing. In Arabic the "subject" is referred to two things, in nominal sentence it is the translation of "" and for "" i.e. the doer of act/verb is also translated as "subject of verb". And the Subject of Verb is always after the verb, either as suffixed/hidden pronoun referring back to the antecedent or separate noun, for which the rules are different, as mentioned earlier. Only because of this there can never be any confusion in understanding the whole sentence alongwith subordinate clauses.

                                          Let me just inform you that all these things are not alien to me... I have studied nahou, ilm sarf as well as i3raab.. I am an arabic teacher by profession... What you are failing to see is the real message of the verse... your focus is on the technicals.. I cannot change anything to that...

                                          I think we should just agree to disagree here... even though I brought my proof.. lets just move on

                                          Peace

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