Quran only mistakes
-
Even if you study the history of the compilation of the Quraan, you see that it was also compiled during the caliphate of the third Khaleefah, 'Uthmaan ibn Affaan , who had each and every single verse of the Quraan testified to by witnesses.
ah , so u believe that usman took care of the preservation of the Word of God and not God himself? interesting. now i see why u think the way u do.
btw, i see that u think there are a couple of hadith that u dont believe..thts intersting...though why would u advocate a book that even u dont believe in entirely, and consider to possibly be erroneous in some areas? -
Peace
I do find this discussion mildly entertaining. So people who reject ahadeeth eat dogs, cats and snakes ? now that's a new one! http//www.imagebanana.com/img/wg5lygwz/00008242.gif
But I don't understand why you people waste your time replying to some troll who just repeats the same old arguments we've read countless times in articles, books, pamphlets and on internet sites about "the authority of sunnah". If that person was genuinely interested in other opinions or viewpoints he would have read some of the existing threads since each and every point he raises has been addressed and debated ad nauseam. It is obvious he is only here to stir things up and entertain himself.
)u eat lamb/goat/chicken/cow/camel? well a vegetarian could easily come up here and tell you that he/she finds u disgusting.
I am a vegetarian and I find this indeed disgusting.
Ah, but wait ? being a vegetarian is probably haram too, since I'm supposed to follow the prophet in how he ate, dressed, slept and went to the bathroom.
& -
Peace
I do find this discussion mildly entertaining. So people who reject ahadeeth eat dogs, cats and snakes ? now that's a new one! http//www.imagebanana.com/img/wg5lygwz/00008242.gif
But I don't understand why you people waste your time replying to some troll who just repeats the same old arguments we've read countless times in articles, books, pamphlets and on internet sites about "the authority of sunnah". If that person was genuinely interested in other opinions or viewpoints he would have read some of the existing threads since each and every point he raises has been addressed and debated ad nauseam. It is obvious he is only here to stir things up and entertain himself.
)Funny. I was thinking the same thing.
-
oh well..u hv to keep on trying sometimes, maybe the person might understand..but if he/she doesnt then its safe to agree to disagree. no harm in trying. if hes genuinely trying to keep an open mind and try to learn instead of repeating the same thing, then good on him. if hes not then i wont continue with a pointless debate. but i do find this thread topic amusing. new argument posted plus im fresh meat here, so havent got that sick n tired of old arguments just yet O0
-
Yes Leyna I've been concerned about your haram behaviour laugh
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), who is the best of mankind and the closest to Allaah, used to eat meat and drink milk and honey. When one of his Companions wanted to give up meat, he told him that this was wrong. Anas reported that there was a group of the Companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), one of whom said, ?I will never marry women?; another said, ?I will not eat meat?; another said, ?I will not sleep on a bed?; and another said, ?I will fast and never break my fast.? News of this reached the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). He praised and thanked Allaah, then said ? What is wrong with the people who are saying such and such? I pray and I sleep; I fast and I break my fast; and I marry women. Whoever deviates from my Sunnah (way) does not belong to me.? (Reported by al-Nisaa?i; the story is also to be found in the two Saheehs of al-Bukhaari and Muslim).
http//www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/2521
& & &
-
what kind of guidance is that which you are saying that dog meat and snake meat is good and lawful? That is not guidance, except the guidance of the Devil.
I honestly don't know if snake or dog meat is good and lawful. The issue hasn't come up for me. I haven't prayed or reflected much over it. It is a non-issue in my daily life. Pig's flesh on the other hand is everywhere where I live, and I avoid it since God instructs me to not eat it in no uncertain terms.
My friend, the Quraan itself tells us the tremendous importance of the outer form of the Salaat, including which parts of the body to wash during ablution (i.e. face, hands up to the elbow, to rub the head, and the feet up to the ankles), as well as the command to bathe the entire body for major ritual purification
If the outer form of the prayer is not important, why the Quraan goes into so much detail about the ablution and method of purification?
Thank you for making my point for me. God obviously wants us to be clean before seeking to be near Him, and has left us detailed instructions for achieving this cleanliness. People have later added to His divine instruction (nasal rinsing, doing things thrice, right before left and so forth) and also added a whole set of things that supposedly destroy one's ritual cleanliness. They then make a logical somersault in concluding that since the Qur'an does't instruct them to do things the way their fathers/scholars taught them, the Qur'an is lacking in detail, which goes directly against what the Qur'an says about itself.
-
Allaah says in the Quraan that He has only forbidden pork, blood, dead meat, and meat sacrificed in the name of other than Allaah. That means, for you "Quraan-only followers", everything else is good to eat for you, including dog and snake (how disgusting!)
And as has been mentioned, your argument is based on the strawman fallacy that eating such meat is wrong.
What is you answer to this?
-
I hate to break this to you, but you do know he died 1378 years ago don't you?
How can he be the judge in our disputes NOW?
How can you obey him NOW?
By following what he followed, which is Quran.
You really need to open your eyes my friend. peace
I?m surprised by your ignorance
The messenger is alive in his grave he can see and hear also. >(
http//www.beautifulislam.net/prophethood/alive_in_grave.htm
-
Look how you yourself are in doubt and cannot seem to make up your mind! On one hand you are saying God-fearing humans automatically don't need to eat dog meat or snake meat or eagle meat, therefore it is not mentioned in Quraan, on other hand you are saying maybe God doesn't have a problem with eating these impure animals!
Allaah says in the Quraan that He has only forbidden pork, blood, dead meat, and meat sacrificed in the name of other than Allaah. That means, for you "Quraan-only followers", everything else is good to eat for you, including dog and snake (how disgusting!)
Dog tastes like the brown meat on the chicken. Not so tasty in my opinion, ate it once in an Indian version of McDonalds. The term hot dog became very literal.
Snake tastes a bit like crocodile, hard to find an exact reference.
Eagle, who eats eagle?Are you basing your definition of an impure animal as something with a fang or talon? I don't get it because there are numerous animals without fangs or talons that can be considered impure to eat, leeches for example....But then of course there are not many leeches in the middle east so how could they include that in the hadith...
-
i do find this thread topic amusing. new argument posted )
Haha yes I can relate to being fresh and therefore not being sick of it. Plus this is highly amusing. Especially now - thanks afridi220, Leyna and others.
@ Leyna - laugh Well, it HAS to be the truth as it was "found in the two Saheehs of al-Bukhaari and Muslim" yes hmm
-
I?m surprised by your ignorance
The messenger is alive in his grave he can see and hear also. >
http//www.beautifulislam.net/prophethood/alive_in_grave.htm
So he was buried alive? I can assure you after over 1300 years he is dead, he cannot hear your prayers nor see you, check Quran.
-
Dof meat is halal for someone from philippines or cat meat is halal from someone from china and spider meat is halal for someone from amazons, to me it's gross to eat gost meat and specially camel meat, as for camel meat, i feel it's haram even though i know according to the quran, it's halal, it's not been prohibited
-
ah , so u believe that usman took care of the preservation of the Word of God and not God himself? interesting. now i see why u think the way u do.
btw, i see that u think there are a couple of hadith that u dont believe..thts intersting...though why would u advocate a book that even u dont believe in entirely, and consider to possibly be erroneous in some areas?What I'm saying is that Allaah preserved His Word through the effort of men. Did Allaah drop the Quraan with all its Surahs and Ayats arranged in the right order? did it come down from the clouds as a book between two covers?
Or was it revealed upon the tongue of the Messenger ? Was it not compiled during the caliphate of 'Uthmaan , some two or three decades after the passing away of the Prophet?
So the exact same objection you raise against the Hadeeth can also be made about the Quraan. There is a saying, "Don't throw stones at someone's house if your own house is made of glass"
The earliest complete manuscripts we have of the Quraan are in fact found to be compiled at least a century after the Prophet passed away
John Gilchrist states "The oldest manuscripts of the Quran still in existence date from not earlier than about one hundred years after Muhammad's death."
Even the first hadith compilation we have, the Saheefah of Hammaam ibn Munnabih is dated to earlier than that, the mid-first century of the Islaamic calendar. It contains 138 narrations or Hadiths, 98 of which can be found in Sahih al Bukhari and Sahih Muslim!
-
In a prophecy to the Virgin Mary before the birth of Jesus the Messiah (peace be upon him), Allaah announces
And He (Allaah) will teach him (Jesus) the Book, and the Wisdom, and the Torah, and the Gospel
If, as the "Quraan-only" group claims, that Al-Hikmah (the Wisdom) is the same thing as the Quraan, why has Allaah enumerated four different things which He will give knowledge of to Jesus?
It is obvious that the Torah and the Gospel are not the same, they are two different revelations that Allaah gave knowledge of to Jesus.
In addition, Allaah says He will also give knowledge of the Book, meaning the Quraan, and the Wisdom, meaning the Sunnah, to Jesus.
Since Torah and Gospel are different things, therefore it is proven that all these four things which Allaah has mentioned (Al-Kitaab, Al-Hikmah, At-Tawrah, and Al-Injeel) are separate and distinct revelations. They are not the same thing or four different titles of the same book!
The Gospel and the Torah are different revelations, therefore, the Kitaab and the Hikmah are also different revelations.
Coincidentally, this verse is also a proof that Jesus is still alive and will descend at his second coming, with correct knowledge of the Kitaab (Quraan), and the Hikmah (Sunnah).
-
see now YOU are reducing Gods word to mans word. according to ur hadith it says that Usman compiled it, but see i believe that the prophet wud never hv been so casual about his job that he wudnt hv compiled the quran in its entirety in his lifetime. so where is that quran? maybe its been sidelined so that people after th eprophet could get all the praise for "saving" islam by preserving the Quran. God is enough to preserve His word. He does not need man. i believe the quran when it says that God will protect His message.no man.maybe thts not enough fr you.
What I'm saying is that Allaah preserved His Word through the effort of men. Did Allaah drop the Quraan with all its Surahs and Ayats arranged in the right order? did it come down from the clouds as a book between two covers?
Allah preserved HIs word through Him. he just gave messengers the honor of compilation.NOT muslim NOT shaafi NOT paul NOT mark, lucas, john etc.
So the exact same objection you raise against the Hadeeth can also be made about the Quraan. There is a saying, "Don't throw stones at someone's house if your own house is made of glas
no. thats ur tradition advocating the compilation of quran to be later than prophet muhammad. the Quran we believe in is protected by God, not so called imams.
John Gilchrist states "The oldest manuscripts of the Quran still in existence date from not earlier than about one hundred years after Muhammad's death."
Even the first hadith compilation we have, the Saheefah of Hammaam ibn Munnabih is dated to earlier than that, the mid-first century of the Islaamic calendar. It contains 138 narrations or Hadiths, 98 of which can be found in Sahih al Bukhari and Sahih Muslim!
i think ur thinking epitomises the idea that these "scholars" had make ppl believe WE are the ones who preserved the quran and safeguarded it so that no one can raise a finger at the book of sayings weve introduced. associate our work to the Book that muslims revere as Gods work and then our words would have everlasting effects.
well done, uv fallen in their trap. -
i think ur thinking epitomises the idea that these "scholars" had make ppl believe WE are the ones who preserved the quran and safeguarded it so that no one can raise a finger at the book of sayings weve introduced. associate our work to the Book that muslims revere as Gods work and then our words would have everlasting effects.
well done, uv fallen in their trap.Why don't you try to refute the undisputed evidence, instead of making more emotional arguments which simply unveil total ignorance, wishful thinking, and utter falsehood?
Even western historians have admitted this fact that Quraan was compiled during the caliphate of Uthmaan
The earliest complete Quraan manuscripts are dated to not earlier than 100 years after the death of the Prophet
You have no choice but to accept this fact. I gave the evidence and quoted even the Western historians and scholars. My challenge to you is simple, show me a single manuscript of the Quraan (does not even have to be a complete manuscript, it can even be a fragment or portion of the text) which can be dated to the lifetime of Prophet Muhammad
If you cannot bring even a shred of evidence, then I suggest you stop repeating the same lie over and over again that the first hadith compilations were written "200 years after the Prophet's death" by Bukhari and Muslim.
I already proved this fact also that the earliest hadith compilation was written in the mid first century of the Islamic calendar, referring to the compilation of Hammaam ibn Munabbih, containing 138 narrations total, 98 of which are testified to in Bukhari and Muslim's compilations.
-
Why don't you try to refute the undisputed evidence, instead of making more emotional arguments which simply unveil total ignorance, wishful thinking, and utter falsehood?
Even western historians have admitted this fact that Quraan was compiled during the caliphate of Uthmaan
The earliest complete Quraan manuscripts are dated to not earlier than 100 years after the death of the Prophet
You have no choice but to accept this fact. I gave the evidence and quoted even the Western historians and scholars. My challenge to you is simple, show me a single manuscript of the Quraan (does not even have to be a complete manuscript, it can even be a fragment or portion of the text) which can be dated to the lifetime of Prophet Muhammad
If you cannot bring even a shred of evidence, then I suggest you stop repeating the same lie over and over again that the first hadith compilations were written "200 years after the Prophet's death" by Bukhari and Muslim.
I already proved this fact also that the earliest hadith compilation was written in the mid first century of the Islamic calendar, referring to the compilation of Hammaam ibn Munabbih, containing 138 narrations total, 98 of which are testified to in Bukhari and Muslim's compilations.
it is late here but your dates seem a little confused. Uthman died around 23 years after the prophet so where does 100 years come into it?
There may have been hadith 138 narrations within the first 100 years of the prophets death but only 98 used by Bukhari, who was born 200 years after the prophets death, but then where did he find the other 599862 that he aparently sifted through to come up with less than 1% considered 'sound'?
supposed 'evidence' from western historians and scholars means zilch here buddy. The prophet recited a profound message for those of understanding, immediately after the prophet died there were at least 12 sects all with new ideas, they obviously actually had very little understanding of the whole thing. Inventions of 'Muhammed said, Muhammed did' started immediately after his death, and very few of them were fact.