Proof Qur'an-alone is Error
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You are so entitled to your opinions that it becomes ridiculous.
I'm not seeking anything, I've already found the truth.
Your little group of Quran-aloners don't make the weight, you'll turn in circle then the most wise of yall will come back to the truth.
Salaam Badr
You seem to find great comfort in the fact that you belong to the majority. Is that is what is bothering you about Quran Alone, that we seem to be able to unite without rituals binding us together? I think you should take Wakas up on his challenge, because at the moment only Quran Alone has at least 5 strong objections or evidence against hadith based islam, evidence that not even you can deny.
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Your little group of Quran-aloners don't make the weight, you'll turn in circle then the most wise of yall will come back to the truth.
6116
6116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of Allah; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.1813
1813 We tell to you their news with the truth. They were youths who believed in their Lord, and We increased them in guidance.1814
1814 And We made firm their hearts when they stood and said Our Lord, the Lord of the heavens and the earth, we will not call besides Him any god. If we have done so then it was in error.1822
1822 They will say Three, the fourth is their dog. And they say Five, the sixth is their dog, guessing at what they do not know. And they say Seven, and the eighth is their dog. Say My Lord is fully aware of their number, none know them except for a few. So do not argue regarding them except with proof, and do not seek information regarding them from anyone.They were a "Little Group" as you said.
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Mohammed M. Khan -
Dear Abdulla,ou
I didn't mean to stir up everybody, I mostly wanted to publicly state my change in opinion, with Allah as my witness, and offer a proof for it that has given me justification for my decision. I don't care what anyone else thinks, nor am I trying to change anyone else on here, except perhaps the one who has doubts about the Qur'an-alone school of thought and may benefit from my example, because I have been there.
It is saddening when I read posts like this where God had blessed a person with th truth of Islam, only to have them revert to polytheism.
Yours will not be the first nor the last...For it was so even at the time of revelation
4137 Those who believed, then rejected, then believed, then rejected, then they increased in rejection; God was not to forgive them nor to guide them to the path.
Let it be known by the tone and content of the preceding discussions in this thread, and by pure logic, that the Qur'an-alone school is actually more intolerant than the orthodox/traditional school. For example, no sunni or shia ever kept me out of a mosque for rejecting ahadith! However, I find the posters here are very militant and aggressive against anyone who simply wants to derive some additional benefit from the Prophet's life (AS). By pure logic, the Traditional school would never exclude anyone from being a Muslim, as long as he testifies to God-alone. That, my friends is tolerance.
You are seeing what you want to see...The Muslims here will tell you to your face that you are wrong and misled, and that continuing such a path will only lead you to eternal misery...As for the polythists you seem to admire, in their web of deceit and hypocracy they will tell you what you want to hear, but in reality, they are the enemies of God and only have hatred and animosity for those who follow Islam/Submission
582 You will find the people with the greatest animosity towards those who believe are the Jews and those who are polytheists; and you will find the closest in affection to those who believe are those who said ?We are Nazarenes;? that is because among them are Priests and Monks, and they are not arrogant.
One more direct proof that I didn't see mentioned above
Remember any of God's verses and wisdom which are recited in your homes. God is Gracious, Informed.
I interpret this to mean that something was recited in the house of the Messenger of Allah that was not recited in public, and that it was commanded by Allah (swt) to be remembered. Otherwise, why would Allah call special attention to it, and even address this ayah directly to the wives? In my opinion, this is the hikmah, the wisdom, that was passed down orally, and then later codified at an appropriate time in the history of the ummah.
Rather than relying on "facts", it is the following of such "opinoin/hawa" that leads people astray.
Using your argument, I could spin it to further say that "God's revelations" were not known to the public as they were being "recited in the prophet's homes" and therefore only known to his wives and they were commanded to remember it. So we must seek the hadith of the wives to discover God's revelations!
The "Hikma" is already defined for us by the Almighty as an attribute found within the Quran (1739, 545) and not a set of words/rules/actions to be found in the fantasy land of hadith.
And also an indirect proof
How on earth do you learn what salat is unless someone shows you? And who showed that person, and who showed that person... Can't you see? Allah taught Prophet Muhammad the prayer, and salat is one of the precious gifts that has been handed down from one generation of Muslims to the next. And this is the unbroken chain of barakah that I was hinting about. This is also called transmission in metaphysics. It is something quite magical that happens from one soul to another, not from the bookshelf to the brain.
If you reject sunna so strongly, then you might as well invent your own style of prostration, because there are no precise instructions in the Qur'an for that. In fact, there is more precision in the Qur'an on how to fast than there is on how to pray. Why is that, my friends? I wanted to believe that Qur'an was all I needed, but I couldn't resolve why the detailed method of salat was intentionally missing from the text? In my personal journey to Islam, I was reading Qur'an for several years and applying its principles, until I wanted to start doing the prayer. To learn how to do that I naturally went to the masjid where somebody could teach me.
You failed to have patience and as a result you have forfitted the ability to see what exists within the Quran...The Book of God is unlike any man written book...And, since you have rejected God's ascertion that is His Book is complete and detailed, then you have failed to find what others can see. Salat details are all there in black and white to allow a layman to carry out. But if you are seeking the polytheists and their ways, then that will never be found in God's pure Book.
Finally, it comes down to humility and ego. Not to accuse anybody, but seriously, what prevents a person from wanting to be closer to the Messenger of Allah, or at least more "in line" behind him, the imam of imams, is usually pride. So if humility is a virtue for a person, they will seek to suppress their own styles of behavior for a higher example and better model. They do this eagerly, because they know ego is the enemy.
Because the humility and ego of a Muslim can only allow him/her to bow to the King of kings, the Lord of the Universe, our Maker, our Judge, and our Lord (may His name be glorified forever)....As for the polythiests, they seek to worship and bow to the idols that have falsely created and dare to put on even the same sentence of the Lord!
You all can take the Book of Allah dry as long as that satisfies you. It doesn't bother me or the ummah, and we welcome your identification as Muslims. But there are so many higher levels in this deen-al-haqq, and if you want to reach them, you will inevitably seek latheena anamta alayhim.
It doesn't bother the Muslims here one iota that you reject God's words....But here is what your "ummah" will do to each other come J-Day
2925 And he said ?You have taken idols besides God in order to preserve some friendship among you in this worldly life. But then, on the Day of Resurrection, you will reject one another, and curse one another. Your destiny is Hell, and you will have no victors.?
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6116
6116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of Allah; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.1813
1813 We tell to you their news with the truth. They were youths who believed in their Lord, and We increased them in guidance.1814
1814 And We made firm their hearts when they stood and said Our Lord, the Lord of the heavens and the earth, we will not call besides Him any god. If we have done so then it was in error.1822
1822 They will say Three, the fourth is their dog. And they say Five, the sixth is their dog, guessing at what they do not know. And they say Seven, and the eighth is their dog. Say My Lord is fully aware of their number, none know them except for a few. So do not argue regarding them except with proof, and do not seek information regarding them from anyone.They were a "Little Group" as you said.
May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Mohammed M. Khanyeah little group the 12 persons active in this forum. Of course !
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Thanks to Badr for being steadfast in support of my position. May Allah reward him.
I didn't mean to stir up everybody, I mostly wanted to publicly state my change in opinion, with Allah as my witness, and offer a proof for it that has given me justification for my decision. I don't care what anyone else thinks, nor am I trying to change anyone else on here, except perhaps the one who has doubts about the Qur'an-alone school of thought and may benefit from my example, because I have been there.
Let it be known by the tone and content of the preceding discussions in this thread, and by pure logic, that the Qur'an-alone school is actually more intolerant than the orthodox/traditional school. For example, no sunni or shia ever kept me out of a mosque for rejecting ahadith! However, I find the posters here are very militant and aggressive against anyone who simply wants to derive some additional benefit from the Prophet's life (AS). By pure logic, the Traditional school would never exclude anyone from being a Muslim, as long as he testifies to God-alone. That, my friends is tolerance.
One more direct proof that I didn't see mentioned above
Remember any of God's verses and wisdom which are recited in your homes. God is Gracious, Informed.
I interpret this to mean that something was recited in the house of the Messenger of Allah that was not recited in public, and that it was commanded by Allah (swt) to be remembered. Otherwise, why would Allah call special attention to it, and even address this ayah directly to the wives? In my opinion, this is the hikmah, the wisdom, that was passed down orally, and then later codified at an appropriate time in the history of the ummah.
And also an indirect proof
How on earth do you learn what salat is unless someone shows you? And who showed that person, and who showed that person... Can't you see? Allah taught Prophet Muhammad the prayer, and salat is one of the precious gifts that has been handed down from one generation of Muslims to the next. And this is the unbroken chain of barakah that I was hinting about. This is also called transmission in metaphysics. It is something quite magical that happens from one soul to another, not from the bookshelf to the brain.
If you reject sunna so strongly, then you might as well invent your own style of prostration, because there are no precise instructions in the Qur'an for that. In fact, there is more precision in the Qur'an on how to fast than there is on how to pray. Why is that, my friends? I wanted to believe that Qur'an was all I needed, but I couldn't resolve why the detailed method of salat was intentionally missing from the text? In my personal journey to Islam, I was reading Qur'an for several years and applying its principles, until I wanted to start doing the prayer. To learn how to do that I naturally went to the masjid where somebody could teach me.
Finally, it comes down to humility and ego. Not to accuse anybody, but seriously, what prevents a person from wanting to be closer to the Messenger of Allah, or at least more "in line" behind him, the imam of imams, is usually pride. So if humility is a virtue for a person, they will seek to suppress their own styles of behavior for a higher example and better model. They do this eagerly, because they know ego is the enemy.
You all can take the Book of Allah dry as long as that satisfies you. It doesn't bother me or the ummah, and we welcome your identification as Muslims. But there are so many higher levels in this deen-al-haqq, and if you want to reach them, you will inevitably seek latheena anamta alayhim.
May Allah guide us all and accept our efforts. I have grown through my interactions on this forum. Thanks.
Dear Abdullah,
You found the right path thanks to God and Alhamdulillah. May He strenghten you and keep your hearts on the His deen and I'm sure He will as long as you're true to Him.
Dont listen to these activists, they are misleading you. I'm sure you have seen how they twist every thing to prove their points.
Mashallah, you're a grown man and you made your decision by yourself.
Salaam
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Salaam Badr
You seem to find great comfort in the fact that you belong to the majority.
I have a huuuuuge comfort and feel so blessed and favoured to belong to the Truth.
Is that is what is bothering you about Quran Alone, that we seem to be able to unite without rituals binding us together?
How can I be bothered by 12 people who talk on the net, is that a real bind, yall don't even know yourselves in person.
You don't even imagine what are the true binds ; It is to pray shoulder to shoulder with your muslim brother, to have chills when the imam recites Quran. To feel your sins washed when you make ablution, to feel the honor to walk on the steps on the Prophet Muhammad PBUH when eating with your right hand, when you say Bism'illah before you put the food on your mouth, to recite the exact same duaa as the Rasool when you finish to pray and to enjoy the connection between you and your creator at the end of the night when you wake up and do a nafila for Him in a time where He promised to fulfill are your duaas.
The bind is when your break the sawn at noon with your family around the table in the holy month, when you say "assalaam aleikum" to every body, those you know and those you don't know because the prophet said to spread salaam, to say "may god bless you" to who sneezes. To immune your children with the duaa the prophet made for his grand children Hassan & Hussein etc...
The bind is when you consult your bank account at the end of the year and can't wait to give the zakkat to someone you know is in need.
I think you should take Wakas up on his challenge, because at the moment only Quran Alone has at least 5 strong objections or evidence against hadith based islam, evidence that not even you can deny.
I already posted my objections, the points you have against hadeeth are ridiculous and your little group didnt shake my belief for a second because I'm on the same path than the best of mankind ;Muhammad Rasool Allah. May God give you this sensation one day and take off the veil you have over the eyes.
Now I have Salaat Al Isha, I'll BRB.
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I have a huuuuuge comfort and feel so blessed and favoured to belong to the Truth.
oh me too! Isn't it a wonderful feeling knowing your prayers for guidence to His Truth are being answered and opening your eyes to the wonders of His creation and His words?How can I be bothered by 12 people who talk on the net, is that a real bind, yall don't even know yourselves in person.
Would that make us better muslims if we met up or if we were more? No one is trying to 'bother' you.You don't even imagine what are the true binds ; It is to pray shoulder to shoulder with your muslim brother, to have chills when the imam recites Quran. To feel your sins washed when you make ablution, to feel the honor to walk on the steps on the Prophet Muhammad PBUH when eating with your right hand, when you say Bism'illah before you put the food on your mouth, to recite the exact same duaa as the Rasool when you finish to pray and to enjoy the connection between you and your creator at the end of the night when you wake up and do a nafila for Him in a time where He promised to fulfill are your duaas.
I have chills when I read Quran and when I recite, does that count? I eat with a knife and fork though. I say Bismillah before I eat and thank God for what I have, just as I did when I said Grace before a meal before, that is in ALL God's books, not just in hadith, did you not know that?The bind is when your break the sawn at noon with your family around the table in the holy month, when you say "assalaam aleikum" to every body, those you know and those you don't know because the prophet said to spread salaam, to say "may god bless you" to who sneezes. To immune your children with the duaa the prophet made for his grand children Hassan & Hussein etc...
always said God Bless you to someon that sneezed too, as a Christian, is that where the hadith came from?
Immune your children? Now we are stepping right away from anything God Himself has said and going right the opposite way. oThe bind is when you consult your bank account at the end of the year and can't wait to give the zakkat to someone you know is in need.
You call that a bind? Giving in charity is a bind to you that you do it only once a year? Those in need are in need all year round and you wouldn't consider giving to them until it's zakat day once a year? That is SO far from what any prophet of God would do and you are so blind with your binding rituals and false hadith you can't even SEE that.I already posted my objections, the points you have against hadeeth are ridiculous and your little group didnt shake my belief for a second because I'm on the same path than the best of mankind ;Muhammad Rasool Allah. May God give you this sensation one day and take off the veil you have over the eyes.
The points given to you about hadith are so ridiculous to you that you have not been able to refute one yet. Our little group doesn't want to shake your belief as we understand the comfort you feel in your bubble following something other than what the prophet followed and how comfortable that belonging to the majority is. May God release you from your chains one day and allow you to see the clarity in His words and the wisdom and give you the wisdom to do something about it.
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oh me too! Isn't it a wonderful feeling knowing your prayers for guidence to His Truth are being answered and opening your eyes to the wonders of His creation and His words?
Yes it is.
Would that make us better muslims if we met up or if we were more?
Yes.
I have chills when I read Quran and when I recite, does that count?
Yeah as a woman you have no obligation to go to the mosque
I eat with a knife and fork though. I say Bismillah before I eat and thank God for what I have, just as I did when I said Grace before a meal before, that is in ALL God's books, not just in hadith, did you not know that?
Good for you.
always said God Bless you to someon that sneezed too, as a Christian, is that where the hadith came from?
Another great point for you.
Immune your children? Now we are stepping right away from anything God Himself has said and going right the opposite way.
This is beyond your understanding.
You call that a bind? Giving in charity is a bind to you that you do it only once a year? Those in need are in need all year round and you wouldn't consider giving to them until it's zakat day once a year? That is SO far from what any prophet of God would do and you are so blind with your binding rituals and false hadith you can't even SEE that.
Don't you know it is better to keep sadaqa secret as your right hand don't know what the left spent ? Oh sorry, it was a hadith !
The points given to you about hadith are so ridiculous to you that you have not been able to refute one yet. Our little group doesn't want to shake your belief as we understand the comfort you feel in your bubble following something other than what the prophet followed and how comfortable that belonging to the majority is. May God release you from your chains one day and allow you to see the clarity in His words and the wisdom and give you the wisdom to do something about it.
Ameen !
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Yes.
So we found another pillar! To be a better muslim one must meet in person all other muslims and be a larger group. Those sparce followers in the very beginning had no idea did they, when it was just Muhammed, Abu Bakr and the odd few others they were not actually good muslims until there were many of them. How things have changed eh? ;DYeah as a woman you have no obligation to go to the mosque
Not found that in Quran, I thought Quran was for mankind, which includes women or was God only speaking about men?This is beyond your understanding.
aah is that right? I think it is beyond your understanding that Allah was quite clear this cannot be done, but inshaAllah your understanding may blossom.Don't you know it is better to keep sadaqa secret as your right hand don't know what the left spent ? Oh sorry, it was a hadith !
what has keeping it secret got to do with you being a tight arse all year round? Quran says publically and privately, hadith say keep it secret so no one knows what a tight arse you are?)
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I'm hesitant about answer you seriously or ironically hmm... I'll do both.
So we found another pillar! To be a better muslim one must meet in person all other muslims and be a larger group. Those sparce followers in the very beginning had no idea did they, when it was just Muhammed, Abu Bakr and the odd few others they were not actually good muslims until there were many of them. How things have changed eh? ;D
Yes things changed since then, now nobody has to follow their footsteps because it may be a wrong hadith.
Not found that in Quran, I thought Quran was for mankind, which includes women or was God only speaking about men?
He was speaking about both but men MUST go to the mosque and women have the same reward by praying at home, they can go to the mosque if they want tho.
aah is that right? I think it is beyond your understanding that Allah was quite clear this cannot be done, but inshaAllah your understanding may blossom.
Hopefully it can but keep thinking otherwise.
what has keeping it secret got to do with you being a tight arse all year round? Quran says publically and privately, hadith say keep it secret so no one knows what a tight arse you are?
)
God knows, that's what matters.
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I'm hesitant about answer you seriously or ironically hmm... I'll do both.
Why hesitant? Am I that scary ;DYes things changed since then, now nobody has to follow their footsteps because it may be a wrong hadith.
so if things have changed from the prophets time you are not following what he did, you are following something that has been made up/derived from/ added to and not what he and the original muslims followed.As has been pointed out to you already there was once a time when a very small group of believers were steadfast in their faith against all the majority and fought against anyone who tried to add, subtract or change the message. Muhammed was the leader of that group and Allah was his leader, as He is ours. Small we may be but we know our stuff inside out and we help each other, even though we have never met and disagree on many things, because we fully understand we are all indiviuals with different ways of reading and seeing and thinking and reflecting on Quran. So here in this forum we get to look at each others reflections and it widens our journey through Quran with new eyes each time we look at a verse. We do not have a set of scholars who tell us what to think and believe that we follow blindly without question. We use the brains Allah blessed us with and we follow the words that he gave us, and we sincerely are seeking truth and we all ask Allah for help and guidence in that, because we trust HIM with all our hearts and minds that He knows we genuinely seek and we know He will genuinely guide.
He was speaking about both but men MUST go to the mosque and women have the same reward by praying at home, they can go to the mosque if they want tho.
they can go to the mosque if they live near a mosque that women are not barred from you mean. ;DGod knows, that's what matters.
yes He does and He knows that Muhammed was not told privately to make Zakat 2.5% once a year too.
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Why hesitant? Am I that scary ;D
Are you ?
so if things have changed from the prophets time you are not following what he did, you are following something that has been made up/derived from/ added to and not what he and the original muslims followed.
As has been pointed out to you already there was once a time when a very small group of believers were steadfast in their faith against all the majority and fought against anyone who tried to add, subtract or change the message. Muhammed was the leader of that group and Allah was his leader, as He is ours. Small we may be but we know our stuff inside out and we help each other, even though we have never met and disagree on many things, because we fully understand we are all indiviuals with different ways of reading and seeing and thinking and reflecting on Quran. So here in this forum we get to look at each others reflections and it widens our journey through Quran with new eyes each time we look at a verse. We do not have a set of scholars who tell us what to think and believe that we follow blindly without question. We use the brains Allah blessed us with and we follow the words that he gave us, and we sincerely are seeking truth and we all ask Allah for help and guidence in that, because we trust HIM with all our hearts and minds that He knows we genuinely seek and we know He will genuinely guide.
they can go to the mosque if they live near a mosque that women are not barred from you mean. ;DOh! OK I get it now ! you love so much the prophet and his companions that you want to remake history, you identify yourselves to them and think you are their equals. You want to skip all they did and start new every thing from scratch, OK now I get it. thanx for enlightening me sun
yes He does and He knows that Muhammed was not told privately to make Zakat 2.5% once a year too.
nope
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Salaam.
One Q
Does Qur'an need hadeeth books by men to be understood
or
do all the books by Bukhary & co need Qur'an to .... whatever?
Let me know.
My email is known.
I'd write my cell number but this is the net.Peace.
Ignoring hadeeth is ignoring a huge part of islam, since I found this forum I'm more aware of it, especially since most of yall say salaat is not salaat (you know what I mean) when salaat (as certain acts and sayings) is more than obligatory.
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Are you ?
yes buddy, I am your worst nightmare.
Oh! OK I get it now ! you love so much the prophet and his companions that you want to remake history, you identify yourselves to them and think you are their equals. You want to skip all they did and start new every thing from scratch, OK now I get it. thanx for enlightening me sun
??? Arent you the one that was talking about walking in his footsteps by eating with the left hand and all that malarky? Arent you the one that is saying he was some kind of super human man we should emulate? YOU identify to what YOU have been told the prophet did and said even to how he ate and used the bathroom and you take what I said about being a small group and twist it in this way? Do you think eating with the left hand makes you his equal? Why the hell do you twist being a small group to the crap you just posted? Did Muhammed come with a 'new thing'? NO, Abraham was a muslim so Islam is not a new invention, hadith IS. We follow Quran, that is not a new invention, Muhammed and his small group of companions did it and that's what we follow. You think wiping your arse with the right number of stones makes you his equal? You think that makes you a better muslim with your majority all asking how many stones to wipe their arses with?
We have respect for the prophet of God and we want to follow what he did in following quran, small group we may be just as the small group of Muhammed was. Now you go find the hadith about the 73 sects and see if the one that is following Muhammed is the one that follows Quran or the one that wipes his arse with the correct number of stones and eats with the left hand and learn some respect!
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Your thirst of scientific proofs will cause your loss (in the general sense), anyway you can't scientifically proove that meat were rotting before this event with the israelites.
The hadith is making a scientific claim about decay of meat, and that it never used to happen until Israelis came along. This is a lie. You attribute lies to the Prophet. You can scientifically prove that meat decayed before Israelis existed, but that would require you to understand the scientific method. What's more, you claimed I did not understand the hadith, insinuating that you do. So explain to me how meat did not decay before Israelis.
Yes, but in this hadeeth in particular Eve has been stated, where's the contradiction ? we can also say, if it wasnt for Adam men wouldnt betray their wives.
The hadith is a lie. This is obvious to me and you, but because you are both firm in your belief and disingenuous you will not dare admit it. Your allegiance does not lie with the Prophet, otherwise you would throw the hadith against the wall. Your allegiance lies with the leaders of your sect.
PS Quran didnt mentionned that Eve was the cause of eating from the tree.
Yes, I know. The hadith is alluding to a Christian concept, which further proves it is false. Abu Huraira was no stranger to using hadith from the bible
Muslim 39 Number 6707
Abu Haraira reported that Allah?s Messenger took hold of my hands and said Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, created the clay on Saturday and He created the mountains on Sunday and He created the trees on Monday and He created the things entailing labour on Tuesday and created light on Wednesday and He caused the animals to spread on Thursday and created Adam (peace be upon him) after ?Asr on Friday;the last creation at the last hour of the hours of Friday, i. e. between afternoon and night.I give them the benefice of the doubt, not like you, and if the prophet have said it it MUST be true. Then after all this have no direct effect on my every day life and worship so I can care less if it's sahih or not.
So you are willing to admit that the content of the hadith is dodgy and provokes doubt. Yet the benefit of this doubt goes to the aid of Bukhari and not the exemplary character of the Prophet portrayed in the quran. Like I said earlier, the choice you've made is clear. And you say it has no effect on your everyday life... attributing lies to the Prophet has no effect on your everyday life? Perhaps it will effect you on the Day of Reckoning.
What you consider to be noble and pious is in actual fact destructive and evil. Does the following hadith effect your everyday life?
Muslim Book 23 Number 5022
Abu Huraira reported Allah?s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying None of you should drink while standing; and if anyone forgets, he must vomit.He must vomit. Ah yes, the hikmah of this hadith is so obvious. Again, the choice is clear you either insult the Prophet and insist the classification of this hadith is indeed sahih, or you defend him from such nonsense and admit your scholars were wrong. So far you believe flies that fall in your water should be dunked, that meat before Israelis did not decay and that because of Eve women betray their husbands. Do you believe that water that is drunk whilst standing should be vomited out? Do you attribute such an injunction to the Prophet?
And jz khair for correcting me regarding Abu Huraira in Malik's muwatta there's nothing quite as satisfying as ridding your mind of misconceptions and falsehood. I genuinely mean that so thanks.
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Ignoring hadeeth is ignoring a huge part of islam, since I found this forum I'm more aware of it, especially since most of yall say salaat is not salaat (you know what I mean) when salaat (as certain acts and sayings) is more than obligatory.
Peace,
Respect.Have you read these in Arabic?
7185,
316,
3923,
456,
5234,
6844,
7750.Pay special attention to 3923.
Suras 68 and 69 are also of huuuuge importance, buddy.
Constantly keep in mind this; 6114. Deal?Peace.
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yes buddy, I am your worst nightmare.
??? Arent you the one that was talking about walking in his footsteps by eating with the left hand and all that malarky? Arent you the one that is saying he was some kind of super human man we should emulate? YOU identify to what YOU have been told the prophet did and said even to how he ate and used the bathroom and you take what I said about being a small group and twist it in this way? Do you think eating with the left hand makes you his equal? Why the hell do you twist being a small group to the crap you just posted? Did Muhammed come with a 'new thing'? NO, Abraham was a muslim so Islam is not a new invention, hadith IS. We follow Quran, that is not a new invention, Muhammed and his small group of companions did it and that's what we follow. You think wiping your arse with the right number of stones makes you his equal? You think that makes you a better muslim with your majority all asking how many stones to wipe their arses with?
We have respect for the prophet of God and we want to follow what he did in following quran, small group we may be just as the small group of Muhammed was. Now you go find the hadith about the 73 sects and see if the one that is following Muhammed is the one that follows Quran or the one that wipes his arse with the correct number of stones and eats with the left hand and learn some respect!
You follow him only by following quran wich is the minimum while me and my A-alikes follow all what he does. We search and look for what is avaible without beign racist about this info has been reported by an arab and arabs are hypocrites and all that small talk, we love him and we want to do like him but in no way we think we are his equals. How could we be ? no one could.
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The hadith is making a scientific claim about decay of meat, and that it never used to happen until Israelis came along. This is a lie. You attribute lies to the Prophet. You can scientifically prove that meat decayed before Israelis existed, but that would require you to understand the scientific method. What's more, you claimed I did not understand the hadith, insinuating that you do. So explain to me how meat did not decay before Israelis.
Neither you nor I can go back in time and check how the degradation of meat use to be. I leave the benefice of the doubt like I said, it could be true or not. If the prophet said it, it must be true, if he didnt then it's cool also.
The hadith is a lie. This is obvious to me and you, but because you are both firm in your belief and disingenuous you will not dare admit it. Your allegiance does not lie with the Prophet, otherwise you would throw the hadith against the wall. Your allegiance lies with the leaders of your sect.
I have no sect Mush, quran-aloners on the other hand sounds like a sect with a guru and all ;D
Yes, I know. The hadith is alluding to a Christian concept, which further proves it is false. Abu Huraira was no stranger to using hadith from the bible
Muslim 39 Number 6707
Abu Haraira reported that Allah?s Messenger took hold of my hands and said Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, created the clay on Saturday and He created the mountains on Sunday and He created the trees on Monday and He created the things entailing labour on Tuesday and created light on Wednesday and He caused the animals to spread on Thursday and created Adam (peace be upon him) after ?Asr on Friday;the last creation at the last hour of the hours of Friday, i. e. between afternoon and night.If the prophet said it it must be true, if dont it also OK, this have no direct effect to my every day life nor my religion practicing.
So you are willing to admit that the content of the hadith is dodgy and provokes doubt. Yet the benefit of this doubt goes to the aid of Bukhari and not the exemplary character of the Prophet portrayed in the quran.
Of course, it could also be made after Bukhari someone could have attribueted it to Bukhari. Whatever !
Like I said earlier, the choice you've made is clear. And you say it has no effect on your everyday life... attributing lies to the Prophet has no effect on your everyday life? Perhaps it will effect you on the Day of Reckoning.
Perhaps but you will not be the judge of it.
What you consider to be noble and pious is in actual fact destructive and evil. Does the following hadith effect your everyday life?
Muslim Book 23 Number 5022
Abu Huraira reported Allah?s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying None of you should drink while standing; and if anyone forgets, he must vomit.He must vomit. Ah yes, the hikmah of this hadith is so obvious. Again, the choice is clear you either insult the Prophet and insist the classification of this hadith is indeed sahih, or you defend him from such nonsense and admit your scholars were wrong. So far you believe flies that fall in your water should be dunked, that meat before Israelis did not decay and that because of Eve women betray their husbands. Do you believe that water that is drunk whilst standing should be vomited out? Do you attribute such an injunction to the Prophet?
This is totally sahih and true. When you drink standing water flows violently in the stomach and with the time your stomach can be hurt, it is better if you drink sitting because your stomach is relaxed and the water flows more slowly. I read a scientifil research about it once and it seems very logical to me.
PS is more like spitting and not vomiting.
On the other hand if it is impossible to drink sitting or if you forget it is not seriously bad.
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You follow him only by following quran wich is the minimum while me and my A-alikes follow all what he does. We search and look for what is avaible without beign racist about this info has been reported by an arab and arabs are hypocrites and all that small talk, we love him and we want to do like him but in no way we think we are his equals. How could we be ? no one could.
Salaam.
Respect.Read The Qur'an and you'll see how prophet/messenger lived and what he said and his whole life.
Also, in The Qur'an, you'll find older hadeeth then the ones from Bukhary and those others. There is a hadeeth from Adam and his wife, from Noah and his son, from Ibraheem and his father and so on and on. These hadeeth are truly sahih.Glory be to God.
Peace.
