WHO, IS QURAN TO BE RECITED TO...ALLAH OR MEN?

[unknownuser]

SHM

if it will make you address the issues i presented, then
i admit the word ritual is not in the koran.

You've already done that.

I have lost nothing, because the issues i raise are more important than the resence of a word in in the koran. NOW PLEASE ADDRESS THOSE ISSUE!!!! Please.

Then my question remains...how can you continue to assert that there is a ritual salaa which we are to perform, when, by your own admission, Allah, Himself, does not say such a thing?

i didnt not say something about Allah that he didnt say Himself. We simply disagree on what a ritual is.

Oh, but you have. If you are going to continue to assert that there is such a thing as a ritual salaa, despite, the fact that, Allah has not defined it as such , yet, you still want to say that there is a ritual salaa, well then, you are saying something which Allah didn't, what are you talking about?

Salat is a ritual by defintion, just like the koran is poetry by defintion,

How can Al-Quran be poetry by definition, when Allah says the following

And We have not taught him poetry, nor is it meet for him; it is nothing but a reminder and a plain Quran,

You continue to say that, "salaa, by definition, is a ritual"...by whose definition? Did Allah define it as such, that is, does He call it a ritual? You've already admitted that He doesn't, so...what is this continued...salaa by definition stuff?

That is why you want me to admit i "lost" this debate.

733. Say the things that my Lord hath indeed made haram are shameful deeds, whether open or secret; sins and trespasses against truth or reason; assigning of partners to Allah, for which He hath given no authority; and that you say against Allah what you do not know.

Main Entry AGAINST in opposition or hostility to contrary to.

2124. Or have they taken for worship (other) gods besides him? Say, "Bring your convincing proof this is the Message of those with me and the Message of those before me." But most of them know not the Truth, and so turn away.

You have lost it. If you cannot, per the above ayats, prove what you assert by way of Al-Quran, then, you are acting against/contrary to Allah, and are simply setting yourself up as a god/guide, that is to say

2543 Seest thou such a one as taketh for his god his own passion (or impulse)? Couldst thou be a disposer of affairs for him?

[Satan_Hates_Me]

SHM

if it will make you address the issues i presented, then
i admit the word ritual is not in the koran.

You've already done that.

I have lost nothing, because the issues i raise are more important than the resence of a word in in the koran. NOW PLEASE ADDRESS THOSE ISSUE!!!! Please.

Then my question remains...how can you continue to assert that there is a ritual salaa which we are to perform, when, by your own admission, Allah, Himself, does not say such a thing?

i didnt not say something about Allah that he didnt say Himself. We simply disagree on what a ritual is.

Oh, but you have. If you are going to continue to assert that there is such a thing as a ritual salaa, despite, the fact that, Allah has not defined it as such , yet, you still want to say that there is a ritual salaa, well then, you are saying something which Allah didn't, what are you talking about?

Salat is a ritual by defintion, just like the koran is poetry by defintion,

How can Al-Quran be poetry by definition, when Allah says the following

And We have not taught him poetry, nor is it meet for him; it is nothing but a reminder and a plain Quran,

You continue to say that, "salaa, by definition, is a ritual"...by whose definition? Did Allah define it as such, that is, does He call it a ritual? You've already admitted that He doesn't, so...what is this continued...salaa by definition stuff?

That is why you want me to admit i "lost" this debate.

733. Say the things that my Lord hath indeed made haram are shameful deeds, whether open or secret; sins and trespasses against truth or reason; assigning of partners to Allah, for which He hath given no authority; and that you say against Allah what you do not know.

Main Entry AGAINST in opposition or hostility to contrary to.

2124. Or have they taken for worship (other) gods besides him? Say, "Bring your convincing proof this is the Message of those with me and the Message of those before me." But most of them know not the Truth, and so turn away.

You have lost it. If you cannot, per the above ayats, prove what you assert by way of Al-Quran, then, you are acting against/contrary to Allah, and are simply setting yourself up as a god/guide, that is to say

2543 Seest thou such a one as taketh for his god his own passion (or impulse)? Couldst thou be a disposer of affairs for him?

i enjoy talking with you. but i can see you dont want to address the issues i presented. Peace brother (or sister i think).

[Satan_Hates_Me]

Hi,

The most dangerous attribute I have is EGO(Shaytan).I try to contain shaytan but when it overwhelms me not only would my vision be impaired my senses and my brain would become mushy.

lol take it as a loose cannon.

huh?

[unknownuser]

SHM

i enjoy talking with you. but i can see you dont want to address the issues i presented. Peace brother (or sister i think).

I'm a brother, sister.

I enjoy talking with as well, however, from experience, I've found it pointless to jump from issue to issue without resolving one, hence, why I've kept the focus on ritual/ritul prayer. The issue of salaa, for me anyway, is resolved. You could not, by way of Quran, prove your assertion, hence, it is contrary to Quran/not a valid one. If you wish to move on to the issue of..."fully detailed" that would be fine with me, and, if not, well, that would be fine with me as well, sister.

[Satan_Hates_Me]

SHM

i enjoy talking with you. but i can see you dont want to address the issues i presented. Peace brother (or sister i think).

I'm a brother, sister.

I enjoy talking with as well, however, from experience, I've found it pointless to jump from issue to issue without resolving one, hence, why I've kept the focus on ritual/ritul prayer. The issue of salaa, for me anyway, is resolved. You could not, by way of Quran, prove your assertion, hence, it is contrary to Quran/not a valid one. If you wish to move on to the issue of..."fully detailed" that would be fine with me, and, if not, well, that would be fine with me as well, sister.

i am a brother.

i really would like you the address the issues i raise, especially your subjective use of "fully-detialed." Many say the koran is fully-detail in all matters, yet hopefully i will prove to you that this argument is very subjective and baseless.

[zenje]

Many say the koran is fully-detail in all matters, yet hopefully i will prove to you that this argument is very subjective and baseless.

Erm, actually GOD says it's fully detailed.

Peace.

Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this Scripture fully detailed? Those to whom We have given the Scripture know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.
And the word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice, there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.

A Scripture whose verses are detailed, a Quran in Arabic, for a people who know.

[unknownuser]

PEACE ZENJE

You stole my thunder...I was going to post those exact ayats.

I wonder how he rationalize not accepting them.

[Satan_Hates_Me]

Many say the koran is fully-detail in all matters, yet hopefully i will prove to you that this argument is very subjective and baseless.

Erm, actually GOD says it's fully detailed.

Peace.

Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this Scripture fully detailed? Those to whom We have given the Scripture know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.
And the word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice, there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.

A Scripture whose verses are detailed, a Quran in Arabic, for a people who know.

PEACE ZENJE

You stole my thunder...I was going to post those exact ayats.

I wonder how he rationalize not accepting them.

I am fully aware what GOD said about his scripture, al-quran. My dispute has nothing to do with what GOD said, but people abusing it and subjectively applying it.

For example, verses 6114-115. People love to quote this verses. They believe that these verse prove that nothing can exist outside the koran as important source of religious knowledge. However, if one read the verses right before these two, you learn that GOD was making specific reference to a particular subject matter. Abusing the Koran is quoting verses OUT OF CONTEXT, to prove baseless points.The verses is addressing lies attributed by "the enemies of every prophet." Then GOd said, shall you seek "GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?". Meaning "shall you believe and follow those lies when this book is fully-detailed in those matters."

The reason i say people abuse these verses is because NOT EVERYTHING IS FULLY DETASILED IN THE KORAN! For example, the dress code for submitting men and women are not fully-detailed. Yet when you bring this to the awareness of those who preach "everything in the koran only" they subjectively select this matter as not important as "spiritual guidance", contradicting themselves to what they testify. Although everthing in the Koran is for guidance only (2185), people who prech "koran only" would subjectively select what is guidance, "spiritual guidance" , koranic guidance, and all other classification to aviod explaining why the details for many issues in the koran is not "fully-detailed."

For example,

And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and maintain their chastity. They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary. They shall cover their chests, and shall not relax this code in the presence of other than their husbands, their fathers, the fathers of their husbands, their sons, the sons of their husbands, their brothers, the sons of their brothers, the sons of their sisters, other women, the male servants or employees whose sexual drive has been nullified, or the children who have not reached puberty. They shall not strike their feet when they walk in order to shake and reveal certain details of their bodies. All of you shall repent to GOD, O you believers, that you may succeed.

Here is clear commandment for women to cover the their chest, and in other veres they (women) are told to lenghten their garment. However, it is not fully-detailed. For example

• How long?
• Cover what part of the chest?
• Cover what part of the body besides the chest?
• Can their legs show?
• Can thier arms show?
  etc. etc.

And other questions can developed. Techinically, a woman can wear only a swiming suit and meet all the koranic standards of modesty "fully-detailed" in the Koran. Why? Because with a swiming suit or body suit, all the areas specfically mention are indeed cover.

However, when this argument is use, people say "will they have to be modest, and modesty mean not being sexually appealing". But this prove the inconsistency within the argument. For example, where did they get that defintion of "modesty", it was surely not the koran but outside the koran. Where did they get the defintion for most of the arabic words they redefine? Didnt you look into the "arabic dictionary" as a source outside the koran to understand the koran.

Techinicaly, accordingly to those who preach "koran in everything" argument, a women who seek information and knowledge from an outside source than koran in how to dress modestly, is committing idolatry since "everything is fully-detailed" in the Koran. this is illogical.

My point is, either way you look at it, people who testify to the "everything is in the Koran" argument is simply exposing themselves as contradicting, subjective, hypocritical. They never really use the koran as the only absolute source in seeking information, guidance, source of law, or understand meaning. Then when you expose this to them, they subjective select what is important in the koran and what is not. However, the koran never classify the koran in such catergories but only a guidance (4144). Thats why they use terms like "spritual guidance" and "spiritual development" as a way to aviod this factual statement that not everything is fully-detailed in the koran. However, when God states "fully-detailed" it is always use in context.

However, when people seek knowledge to understand the koran using, previous scripture, history, mathematical structure, we are considerd "seeking a source of law outside the Koran." that is illogical and hypocritical.

[unknownuser]

PEACE SHM

O.K., we will move forward with the issue of..."fully detailed".

"The reason i say people abuse these verses is because NOT EVERYTHING IS FULLY DETASILED IN THE KORAN!...and all other classification to aviod explaining why the details for many issues in the koran is not "fully-detailed."

Alright, tell us then...what does Allah mean when He says

6114. Say "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah. - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.

16.89 And on the day when We will raise up in every people a witness against them from among themselves, and bring you as a witness against these-- and We have revealed the Book to you explaining clearly everything, and a guidance and mercy and good news for those who submit.

18.54] And certainly We have explained in this Quran every kind of example, and man is most of all given to contention.

Allah, in the following ayat, makes it clear that by Book He means Al-Quran

41.3 A Book of which the ayats are made plain, an Arabic Quran for a people who know

28.2 These are the ayats of the Book that makes (things) clear.

Given the above ayats then, what does Allah mean when he defines His Quran as fully detailed?

[Satan_Hates_Me]

PEACE SHM

O.K., we will move forward with the issue of..."fully detailed".

"The reason i say people abuse these verses is because NOT EVERYTHING IS FULLY DETASILED IN THE KORAN!...and all other classification to aviod explaining why the details for many issues in the koran is not "fully-detailed."

Alright, tell us then...what does Allah mean when He says

6114. Say "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah. - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.

16.89 And on the day when We will raise up in every people a witness against them from among themselves, and bring you as a witness against these-- and We have revealed the Book to you explaining clearly everything, and a guidance and mercy and good news for those who submit.

18.54] And certainly We have explained in this Quran every kind of example, and man is most of all given to contention.

Allah, in the following ayat, makes it clear that by Book He means Al-Quran

41.3 A Book of which the ayats are made plain, an Arabic Quran for a people who know

28.2 These are the ayats of the Book that makes (things) clear.

Given the above ayats then, what does Allah mean when he defines His Quran as fully detailed?

do you actually read my entire post or just glance at it?

Given the above ayats then, what does Allah mean when he defines His Quran as fully detailed?

that question denpends on context.

"The reason i say people abuse these verses is because NOT EVERYTHING IS FULLY DETASILED IN THE KORAN!...and all other classification to aviod explaining why the details for many issues in the koran is not "fully-detailed."

***i like how you edit my statement which was an example of how it is not "fully-detailed". Very clever and shady wink

[unknownuser]

SHM

that question denpends on context.

For you to make this claim, you must then provide the ayat where Allah says..."EXCEPT", otherwise, you are saying something, again, which Allah did not say Himself. The following ayats not context bound, but rather, are ALL inclusive statements

16.89 And on the day when We will raise up in every people a witness against them from among themselves, and bring you as a witness against these-- and We have revealed the Book to you explaining clearly everything, and a guidance and mercy and good news for those who submit.

18.54 And certainly We have explained in this Quran every kind of example, and man is most of all given to contention.

Can you read, brother? I really don't understand how you cannot grasp two such absolutely crystal clear ayats. Is it because you just love to argue/be contentious, as it says in 1854? Do you really want to be of those to whom the following ayat applies?

2.6 Surely those who disbelieve, it being alike to them whether you warn them, or do not warn them, will not believe.

[Satan_Hates_Me]

SHM

that question denpends on context.

For you to make this claim, you must then provide the ayat where Allah says..."EXCEPT", otherwise, you are saying something, again, which Allah did not say Himself. The following ayats not context bound, but rather, are ALL inclusive statements

You know what...you are right. GOD need to say "except".
So can you please show me where it is in the Koran i can find the instruction on how to make a car. Oh and how to design a website. please.

[unknownuser]

SHM

You know what...you are right. GOD need to say "except".

Yes, He does, and, in fact, in at least two places in Al-Quran, He uses the word..."except".

So can you please show me where it is in the Koran i can find the instruction on how to make a car. Oh and how to design a website. please
.

You really need to control yourself and stop making comments like this. Your comments, whether you know it or not or believe it or not, are contemptuous of Allah and His Quran. You need to do this for your own sake, because in the end, it is you will who experience the consequences of your actions.

Moving on...

Allah says that

5156 And I have not created the jinn and the men except that they should serve Me.

How do Jinn and men know how to serve Allah? The following ayats answer that question

2.185 The month of Ramazan is that in which the Quran was revealed, a guidance to men and clear proofs of the guidance...

17.9 Surely this Quran guides to that which is most upright and gives good news to the believers who do good that they shall have a great reward.

What did/does Quran guide men to..the Straight Path.

42.52 And thus did We reveal to you an inspired book by Our command. You did not know what the Book was, nor (what) the faith (was), but We made IT a light, guiding thereby whom We please of Our servants; and most surely you show the way to the Straight Path

19.36 And surely Allah is my Lord and your Lord, therefore serve Him; this is the Straight Path.

Now, why should Jinn and men follow the Straight Path by serving Allah? Well, if they serve Allah, then they inherit Paradise and, if they don't,...Hell, hence, the "object of life"/reason for the the existence of Jinn and men, is to gain Paradise

3185 Every soul shall have a taste of death And only on the Day of Judgment shall you be paid your full recompense. Only he who is saved far from the Fire and admitted to the Garden will have attained the object (of Life) For the life of this world is but goods and chattels of deception.

413 Those are limits set by Allah. Those who obey Allah and His Messenger will be admitted to Gardens with rivers flowing beneath, to abide therein (for ever) and that will be the Supreme Achievement.

Ayat 5156 explains cleary the reason for our existence--to serve Allah, and we serve Him by doing good deeds/practicing righteousness, as detailed in HIS Book of Truth/Light/Clear Proofs--AL-QUR-AN.

The object of life, therefore, is to do good deeds/practice righteousness so that Allah will grant us the Supreme Achievement--Paradise. Allah, gave us Al-Qur-an for our guidance/growth/development and for the establishing of Islamic jurisprudence, in order that we practice righteousness in this world and, by doing so, enter Paradise in the next.
With this in mnd then, what hasn't Allah hasn't fully explained/detailed, in the best way, in His Qur-an towards that end and, what question/arguement cannot be definitively answered in Qur'an, toward this end?

The above ayats should put to rest that, indeed, Al-Quran is fully detailed.

[Satan_Hates_Me]

The object of life, therefore, is to do good deeds/practice righteousness so that Allah will grant us the Supreme Achievement--Paradise.

i agree, that is indeed the object of life.

Allah, gave us Al-Qur-an for our guidance/growth/development and for the establishing of Islamic jurisprudence, in order that we practice righteousness in this world and, by doing so, enter Paradise in the next.

i agree, the koran was given for our guidance, period.

With this in mnd then

are you admitting to CONTEXT....hmmm...interesting

With this in mnd then, what hasn't Allah hasn't fully explained/detailed, in the best way, in His Qur-an towards that end and, what question/arguement cannot be definitively answered in Qur'an, toward this end?

Ah....That is the problem. YOU subjectively select the context of "fully-detailed." It is the same old argument you and other use. I already explain how the koran is not "fully-detailed" by your concept of "everything in the koran only" argument, but here it is again.

The dress code for submitting men and women are not fully-detailed. Yet when you bring this to the awareness of those who preach "everything in the koran only" they subjectively select this matter as not important as "spiritual guidance", contradicting themselves to what they testify. IF our dress is not important or in the context of "spiritual development" WHY WOULD GOD EVEN MENTION IT! Although everthing in the Koran is for guidance only (2185), people who preach "koran in everything only" would subjectively select what is guidance, "spiritual guidance" , koranic guidance, and all other classification to aviod explaining why the details for many issues in the koran is not "fully-detailed."

That is exactly what you are doing "Priest." Yet you are completely unaware of it. You are subjectively selecting what GOD means by fully-detailed. You know if GOD didnt say it Himself, YOU are saying it for him right, lying on Him right?

Did GOD say the koran is only for spiritual, religious, human development and all those other "classifications" you developed. NO. Or maybe you have an "hidden" ayat to quote that says that exactly. But remember, if GOD didnt say it, you are saying it for Him.

I dont think we are on the same track. So i will ask some simply questions to prove my point. What does "everything" means? Okay now read this verse.

The day will come when we will raise from every community a witness from among them, and bring you as the witness of these people. We have revealed to you this book to provide explanations for everything, and guidance, and mercy, and good news for the submitters.

Please noted it says "EVERYTHING AND GUIDANCE", isolating the two elements as something different and not similar.

Yes, He does, and, in fact, in at least two places in Al-Quran, He uses the word..."except".

Okay....Did GOD use "except" here? If he didnt, which he didnt, what does "everything" mean. The verse clearly states an "explanations for everything." So "everything" here means "everything" or "somethings" or just "religions things"? If everything mean EVERYTHING, please show me the ayats which shows how to make a islamic website to preach islam to everyone, or ho to develop a car, or how to read arabic., or how to define salat.

The above ayats should put to rest that, indeed, Al-Quran is fully detailed.

You have-not shown any proof that can testify to your subjective context of "fully-detailed". Why? All the verses I have read that states "fully-detailed" DOESNOT say
"only in religious issues" nor those it say
"only to obtain prardise" nor does it say
"only in our life objective" nor does it say
"only in for our guidance/growth/development"
nor does it say "only establishing of Islamic jurisprudence."
THE KORAN doesnot have these assertions by you.

It says EVERYTHING. (1689) It says EVERY KIND OF EXAMPLE (18.54) But gives NO EXCEPTIONS.

what hasn't Allah hasn't fully explained/detailed, in the best way, in His Qur-an towards that end and, what question/arguement cannot be definitively answered in Qur'an, toward this end?

remember when you ask me the show the verse where GOD says or used the word "ritual." And remember when i said, it will come back to hunt you. well....

i will use the same words you used. If the koran is only the guidance for "obtaining our goal in life" or "towards the end"..........

For you to make this claim, you must then provide the ayat where Allah says..."toward this end" or "fully-detail for obtaining our life goal", otherwise, you are saying something, again, which Allah did not say Himself.

Please show me the exact ayat or admit you dont have it.

[Satan_Hates_Me]

Zenje

According to your logical, you know if you use an arabic dictionary to define koranic words, that is a source of explaination outside the koran right? you are contradicting those verse (6115-114)?

A Scripture whose verses are detailed, a Quran in Arabic, for a people who know.

So, if you are learning arabic and ask the techer what salat mean or how to develop the meaning for salat using root words or whatever, you are not using the koran and therefore using an outside source for religious guidance right?

If not, please show an ayat that proves you SHOULD ONLY use the koran to define arabic words.

[unknownuser]

SHM

PREIST With this in mnd then, what hasn't Allah hasn't fully explained/detailed, in the best way, in His Qur-an towards that end and, what question/arguement cannot be definitively answered in Qur'an, toward this end?

Ah....That is the problem. YOU subjectively select the context of "fully-detailed." It is the same old argument you and other use. I already explain how the koran is not "fully-detailed" by your concept of "everything in the koran only" argument, but here it is again.

The dress code for submitting men and women are not fully-detailed. Yet when you bring this to the awareness of those who preach "everything in the koran only" they subjectively select this matter as not important as "spiritual guidance", contradicting themselves to what they testify. IF our dress is not important or in the context of "spiritual development" WHY WOULD GOD EVEN MENTION IT! Although everthing in the Koran is for guidance only (2185), people who preach "koran in everything only" would subjectively select what is guidance, "spiritual guidance" , koranic guidance, and all other classification to aviod explaining why the details for many issues in the koran is not "fully-detailed."

O.K. Allah says His Book is fully detailed or, if you like, just detailed, it doesn't matter, because when Allah details something, it is is done to it's fullest extent, otherwise, He would not be Allah.

Now, whatever Allah has said in Al-Quran, relative to dress, is sufficient/fully detailed, othewrwise, He would be contradicting Himself.

Do you accept this ayat

29.51 Is it not sufficient/enough for them that We have revealed to you the Book which is recited to them? Most surely there is mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe.

If you accept that ayat, then there is no possible means for you to even think, much less, outright state that Allah's Quran is not fully detailed/He hasn't detailed something fully in His Quran.

Don't you understand that, dress, also comes under the rubic of guidance?? Everything mentioned in Al-Quran is for our guidance.

Given that, Allah speaks of dress and how one is to dress, if one disobeys that, then, that individual is subject to Allah's wrath, because he/she has disregarded His law/commandment. With this is in mind then, how is it possible that Allah did not fully detail the dress code in Al-Quran? If it weren't fully detailed, then how could Allah hold in account an individual who didn't adhere to it?

So, tell me, if Allah, The Lord of the Worlds, didn't fully detail the dress code...then who did? and where are the full details for the dress code to be found then?

[unknownuser]

SHM

Okay....Did GOD use "except" here? If he didnt, which he didnt, what does "everything" mean. The verse clearly states an "explanations for everything." So "everything" here means "everything" or "somethings" or just "religions things"? If everything mean EVERYTHING, please show me the ayats which shows how to make a islamic website to preach islam to everyone, or ho to develop a car, or how to read arabic., or how to define salat.

1689] The day will come when we will raise from every community a witness from among them, and bring you as the witness of these people. We have revealed to you this book to provide explanations for everything, and guidance, and mercy, and good news for the submitters.

Please noted it says "EVERYTHING AND GUIDANCE", isolating the two elements as something different and not similar.

If everything mean EVERYTHING, please show me the ayats which shows how to make a islamic website to preach islam to everyone, or ho to develop a car, or how to read arabic., or how to define salat.

Tell you what, seeing how you reject my explanations, what do you think Allah meant/means by...everything? Don't you think he foresaw people like you , who, would ask such questions or, do you think you've caught Allah in a mistake and He's wrong? Apparently, according to your logic, Allah is in error when he used the term everything, because He didn't include the details on how to build a stealth bomber or website.

So, what does everything mean then?

i will use the same words you used. If the koran is only the guidance for "obtaining our goal in life" or "towards the end"..........

For you to make this claim, you must then provide the ayat where Allah says..."toward this end" or "fully-detail for obtaining our life goal", otherwise, you are saying something, again, which Allah did not say Himself.

I have no idea what you are asking here, please rephrase.

[unknownuser]

SHM

You have-not shown any proof that can testify to your subjective context of "fully-detailed". Why? All the verses I have read that states "fully-detailed" DOESNOT say
"only in religious issues" nor those it say
"only to obtain prardise" nor does it say
"only in our life objective" nor does it say
"only in for our guidance/growth/development"
nor does it say "only establishing of Islamic jurisprudence."
THE KORAN doesnot have these assertions by you.

Then how do you reconcile your above position with the following ayat

29.51 Is it not sufficient/enough for them that We have revealed to you the Book which is recited to them? Most surely there is mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe.

If Al-Quran, is not fully detailed, then ayat 2951 is a lie, period.

[Satan_Hates_Me]

I have no idea what you are asking here, please rephrase.

nor do you have an idea on what i present. We human tend to think differently, so i willl ask questions to get us on the same page.

O.K. Allah says His Book is fully detailed or, if you like, just detailed, it doesn't matter, because when Allah details something, it is is done to it's fullest extent, otherwise, He would not be Allah.

(1) Did GOd say that, well show me the ayat?

Given that, Allah speaks of dress and how one is to dress, if one disobeys that, then, that individual is subject to Allah's wrath, because he/she has disregarded His law/commandment. With this is in mind then, how is it possible that Allah did not fully detail the dress code in Al-Quran? If it weren't fully detailed, then how could Allah hold in account an individual who didn't adhere to it?

You are abusing the verses yet you are completely unaware.
(2) If i ask you, "what are you wearing" and you answer "clothes" is that fully-detailed?
(3) If a women wears a swiming suit, which covers her chest and has a certain lenghten, if that wrong for her to wear?
(3) If he wears a body suit, is that wrong for her to wear?
(4) What is her judge on modesty and inappropriate attire? Is it the Koran or the society?

So, tell me, if Allah, The Lord of the Worlds, didn't fully detail the dress code...then who did? and where are the full details for the dress code to be found then?

(5) What did GOd fully-detailed in dress. He said men should dress modest, yet that is determine by society.
(6) He said women should cover their chest, but if i women just wear a bra, isnt she covering her chest?
(7) Show me in the Koran where i am forbidden to where boxers in public?

Tell you what, seeing how you reject my explanations, ....

i rejected your explaination because it was YOUR explaination. You didnt show me one ayat to testify to exactly what you stated. Just like when you wanted me to show you excaty in the koran where it says "ritual" for you to accept it, you didnt show me one ayat where it stated exactly YOUR explaination.

what do you think Allah meant/means by...everything

It defintion is base on the context of the verse.

Don't you think he foresaw people like you , who, would ask such questions

I understand what GOD means when he says "fully-detailed". You have confuse it will "everything exist in the Koran" (5101)

or, do you think you've caught Allah in a mistake and He's wrong?

I have taught you in a mistake, yet you still dont know what it is. sad. This is your mistake, You subjective determine what is the context of "fully-detailed" decriptions in the koran with no auothrity. Did God personall tell you that "fully-detailed" mean what you said it means. NO. But i dont think you will ever understand that.

Allah is in error when he used the term everything, because He didn't include the details on how to build a stealth bomber or website.

GOd cannot make mistake, You have but are completely unaware of it. the context of everything is determine by the verse, not my you. And since you believe everything in the koran is all you need, why are you seeking knowledge outisde the koran. You life should be guided by the koran only, and if any outside influence (scoiety, teacher, language, anything) are laws or sources of you life, then according to you, it is wrong because it is outside the koran.

So, what does everything mean then?

everything mean everything. But God use it in context. however, your delima is that you donot use it in context. If you believe that GOd detail everything, then show me a verse where i can learn how to make a car?

You have-not shown any proof that can testify to your subjective context of "fully-detailed". Why? All the verses I have read that states "fully-detailed" DOESNOT say
"only in religious issues" nor those it say
"only to obtain prardise" nor does it say
"only in our life objective" nor does it say
"only in for our guidance/growth/development"
nor does it say "only establishing of Islamic jurisprudence."
THE KORAN doesnot have these assertions by you.

Then how do you reconcile your above position with the following ayat

29.51 Is it not sufficient/enough for them that We have revealed to you the Book which is recited to them? Most surely there is mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe.

If Al-Quran, is not fully detailed, then ayat 2951 is a lie, period.

i am glad you admit that was assertion by you and was never in the koran.

the verse is so simply yet you abuse it out of context, as usually of those you deny. USE IT IN CONEXT. Please. Please remember God reveal a book to mankind, not one ayat you can twist. The verse have context that explain itself.

2951
They said, "If only miracles could come down to him from his Lord!" Say, "All miracles come only from GOD; I am no more than a manifest warner."

2951
Is it not enough of a miracle that we sent down to you this book, being recited to them? This is indeed a mercy and a reminder for people who believe.

2952
Say, "GOD suffices as a witness between me and you. He knows everything in the heavens and the earth. Surely, those who believe in falsehood and disbelieve in GOD are the real losers."

If you read the verse the way the were meant to be read, you learn that God was refering specifically to the claims the pople was asking about in verse 2951. God is basically saying "they want a miralce, but isnt it enough of a miracle that we reveal this book to muhammed." You dont understand that context is so important. You were saying all those stuff that about me "lying" to God yet you are the one who was making great assertion about God and his book, and i was only using it in context.

[unknownuser]

SHM

O.K. Allah says His Book is fully detailed or, if you like, just detailed, it doesn't matter, because when Allah details something, it is is done to it's fullest extent, otherwise, He would not be Allah.

(1) Did GOd say that, well show me the ayat?

You've got to be kidding, right? Anyway

6114. Say "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah. - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.

Now, I suppose you're going to say that there is some sort of context for this, eh?, please.

Given that, Allah speaks of dress and how one is to dress, if one disobeys that, then, that individual is subject to Allah's wrath, because he/she has disregarded His law/commandment. With this is in mind then, how is it possible that Allah did not fully detail the dress code in Al-Quran? If it weren't fully detailed, then how could Allah hold in account an individual who didn't adhere to it?

You are abusing the verses yet you are completely unaware.
(2) If i ask you, "what are you wearing" and you answer "clothes" is that fully-detailed?
(3) If a women wears a swiming suit, which covers her chest and has a certain lenghten, if that wrong for her to wear?
(3) If he wears a body suit, is that wrong for her to wear?
(4) What is her judge on modesty and inappropriate attire? Is it the Koran or the society?

Look, save the "I'm abusing verses" nonsense, o.k.? You didn't answer the question which I asked, please go back and answer it. I highlighted it in bold so you can focus.

So, tell me, if Allah, The Lord of the Worlds, didn't fully detail the dress code...then who did? and where are the full details for the dress code to be found then?

(5) What did GOd fully-detailed in dress. He said men should dress modest, yet that is determine by society.
(6) He said women should cover their chest, but if i women just wear a bra, isnt she covering her chest?
(7) Show me in the Koran where i am forbidden to where boxers in public?
Quote

Would wearing boxer shorts in public violate Allah's rule of modesty? If so, then you have all the details, now don't you? If you are still in doubt, then consider these ayats

Say to the believing men that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts; that is purer for them; surely Allah is Aware of what they do.

And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts...

Now, are those ayats fully detailed enough for you? Isn't modesty, bottomline, about covering up one's private areas except to those whom it lawful to expose them to ? How each society/individual decides to guard their private parts is up to them just as long as they do it, otherwise, they are accountable to Allah.

i rejected your explaination because it was YOUR explaination. You didnt show me one ayat to testify to exactly what you stated. Just like when you wanted me to show you excaty in the koran where it says "ritual" for you to accept it, you didnt show me one ayat where it stated exactly YOUR explaination.

Oh, you rejected my explanations, despite the fact that, I quoted Al-Quran, I see.

what do you think Allah meant/means by...everything

It defintion is base on the context of the verse.

Fine, then what is the context for the following ayat and what is meant by everything

16.89 And on the day when We will raise up in every people a witness against them from among themselves, and bring you as a witness against these-- and We have revealed the Book to you explaining clearly everything, and a guidance and mercy and good news for those who submit.

I understand what GOD means when he says "fully-detailed". You have confuse it will "everything exist in the Koran" (5101
)

Really?, then please, tell us, what does Allah mean by everything in ayat 1689?

I
have taught you in a mistake, yet you still dont know what it is. sad. This is your mistake, You subjective determine what is the context of "fully-detailed" decriptions in the koran with no auothrity. Did God personall tell you that "fully-detailed" mean what you said it means. NO. But i dont think you will ever understand that.

Yes, Allah, did convey to us what he means by fully detailed

6114. Say "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah. - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.

Main Entry DETAILED marked by abundant detail or by thoroughness in treating small items or parts.

Main Entry ABUNDANT marked by great plenty amply supply plentiful.

Main Entry FULLY in a full manner or degree completly plenty.

What about the above ayat and definitions aren't clear to you now?

As far as catching me in some mistake, well, you indulging in wishful thinking.

GOd cannot make mistake, You have but are completely unaware of it. the context of everything is determine by the verse, not my you.

You're not making any sense at all.

And since you believe everything in the koran is all you need, why are you seeking knowledge outisde the koran. You life should be guided by the koran only, and if any outside influence (scoiety, teacher, language, anything) are laws or sources of you life, then according to you, it is wrong because it is outside the koran
.

Exactly, my life is guided by Al-Quran only and alone, what is your source of guidance?

2185. Ramadhan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qur'an, as a guide to mankind, also clear proofs of guidance and the criterion... in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful.

Let me ask you a question. In light of ayat 2185, what is guidance for?

So, what does everything mean then?

everything mean everything. But God use it in context. however, your delima is that you donot use it in context. If you believe that GOd detail everything, then show me a verse where i can learn how to make a car?

If everything means everything, as you assert, then you tell me why there is no mention of how to build a car in Al-Quran?

You continue to speak of context, yet, you don't want to accept the context of how "everything" is being used in Al-Quran, meaning, Al-Quran has everything pertinent for man's guidance, that is the context. What is guidance for?...to save one's soul from Hell, hence, this ayat again

16.89 And on the day when We will raise up in every people a witness against them from among themselves, and bring you as a witness against these-- and We have revealed the Book to you explaining clearly everything, and a guidance and mercy and good news for those who submit.

Do you see the context now? In the world to come Al-Quran will be either a witness for you or a witness against you and you will have no excuses on that day, because a Book was given which explained...everything in order to keep you out of Hell. Now, do you understand why the schematics on how to build a car is not detailed in Quran?...it is not pertinent to your getting into Paradise or avoiding Hell.

Then how do you reconcile your above position with the following ayat

29.51 Is it not sufficient/enough for them that We have revealed to you the Book which is recited to them? Most surely there is mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe.

If Al-Quran, is not fully detailed, then ayat 2951 is a lie, period.

i am glad you admit that was assertion by you and was never in the koran.

???? My God, anyway, my assertion is what Allah, is stating in Al-Quran.

the verse is so simply yet you abuse it out of context, as usually of those you deny. USE IT IN CONEXT. Please. Please remember God reveal a book to mankind, not one ayat you can twist. The verse have context that explain itself.

2950 They said, "If only miracles could come down to him from his Lord!" Say, "All miracles come only from GOD; I am no more than a manifest warner."

2950. Waqaloo lawla onzila AAalayhi
      ayatun
      min rabbihi qul innama al-ayatu AAinda Allahi wa-innama ana natheerun mubeenun

It is my understanding that, there is no word miracle in 2950 only the words...ayats, verses, if you will.

2952 Say, "GOD suffices as a witness between me and you. He knows everything in the heavens and the earth. Surely, those who believe in falsehood and disbelieve in GOD are the real losers."

If you read the verse the way the were meant to be read, you learn that God was refering specifically to the claims the pople was asking about in verse 2951. God is basically saying "they want a miralce, but isnt it enough of a miracle that we reveal this book to muhammed." You dont understand that context is so important. You were saying all those stuff that about me "lying" to God yet you are the one who was making great assertion about God and his book, and i was only using it in context.

What does..."God is basically saying" mean? Either you know or you don't, but basically means you are not certain.

Please, show me the word miracle in ayat 2950. Regardless, even if miracle is in that ayat and let's for arguement sake that it is, 2951, still poses the rhetorical question from Allah to man, that is, isn't His miracle--Al-Quran, sufficient/enough for them? Isn't Al-Quran sufficient/enough as a sign, that is, as Book of ayats for guidance, for people to obey Allah and follow its contents? Don't you get it? No matter how you look at that 2951, as an ayat, it stands alone and needs no context, because Allah, is speaking about Al-Quran in its totality. The ayat is its own context.

I understand context way better than you ever will.

Please answer my above questions...coherently, please.

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