Is Jerusalem the Qibla?
-
Quran talks about using one's intelligence. Using this criteria do you not think there would be some historical evidence that this event occured somewhere in the history in of approx last 1500yrs.
Your whole flawed argument is based on some obsecure archaelogical evidence which only you appear to have interperted in a particular manner.
As as I am not an archaeclogist (& have no idea as to your expertise in this area) it is difficult for me to discuss the arcaecological evidence with you. However anyone with the very limited understanding of research will explain that even the well established principles in any given field can often be interperted in a contradictory manner. Yet you seem to want turn the entire Islamic history on its head by few flimsy archaelogical statements which even with my limited knowldge sound as credible as a second hand car salesman. As for it being Quranic evidence the discussions on this thread have been more than sufficent to debunk this myth (if the evidence presented here is viewed with an open mind and objectively)And there is the same problem with the sacred months.
Peace.
-
Two nights ago I started reading the book " The Natural Republic ". I read in one the chapters that the Qibla is not Mecca but Jerusalem. At first I was a bit skeptical however after reading a few additional articles I'm starting to think that indeed Jerusalem has to be the Qibla. I was a Christian. And i read the Bible. So far to my knowledge none of the prophets, Jews or Christians could have gone to Mecca for pilgrimage. The Bible places ALOT of emphasis on Jerusalem as the place of pilgrimage. Also the Quran did say in Sura 396 The first house established for the public is the one in Bakka, blessed, and guidance for the worlds.
I always thought that the word Bakka was an old word for the city of Mecca however to my astonishment there is a place called Bakka in Jerusalem! Another issue that bothered me was why was Prophet Mohammad so preoccupied with fighting the Byzantium army unless it was of great importance??? And if the Kaaba in Mecca was the original Qibla why is it according to Islamic History that Muhammad prayed in the direction of Jerusalem during the period the Quran was being revealed. The writers of this book make very strong arguments to support the theory that Jerusalem (where the dome of the rock is situated ) is the focal point. I'm beginning to think so to. Does anyone have any comments on this particular topic ?Hello, sounds Very Very interesting.
Pleaz, what is "qibla" and in which "language" ?
I heard about that to, that at th? "beginning", "prayers" was turned to jeru-salem !
What is that book, talking about this ??
Peace on th? Earth and above ours "heads"
Sorry what is Bakka ??? -
The foolish from amongst the people will say "What has turned them away from the qiblah that they were on?" Say "To God is the east and the west, He guides whomsoever He wishes to a straight path."
Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west...
Sorry ?
-
Salam,
You are thinking of AbdulMalik Bin Marwan, who was the 5th Ummayed Khalifa.
AbdulMalik is credited with spending a fortune on the improvement of the the Dome of the Rock - including covering the Dome in gold paper. At the same time, he sent an army against the shrine in Mecca, ultimately destroying the walls of the Kaaba with catapaults.
Hello,
Why, bd mlk, "want ed" jeru-salem !?
5th khalifa, means what calendar ??
Why Would h? want to " destroy" th? kaaba la ???
Peace on Earth & above ours "heads" -
Salaam
Just one question How can Jerusalem be ?the city of peace? when its history is full of wars and violence?
Simpls
Hello,
Where start th? "history" you talking about !?
Do you know th? history of violence and blood on Earth since ... Long Time !!?
Why do you say, "city of Peace" !??
Dont worry, jeru - salem could not be "qibla" ... If so, we Will, maybe wrong for long !!!
Peace & Truth on Earth and above ours "heads" -
Salam,
Because the "peace" comes from man, not God. The shrine is meant to be a sanctuary, but if people decide they will fight there, then nothing can stop that
?And kill them wherever you encounter them, and expel them from where they expelled you, and know that persecution is worse than being killed. And do not fight them at the Restricted Temple unless they fight you at it; if they fight you then kill them, thus is the recompense of the rejecters.? (Qur?an 2191)
Hello,
What this "verse" it is "talking" about .. Could you "Translate" it, for me, Pleaz ...
Peace & Truth on Earth & above ours "heads" -
Salaam,
I don't agree with this understanding. AlQuraan states
397
397 In it are clear signs the station of Abraham. And whoever enters it will be secure. And Allah is owed from the people to make Pilgrimage to the Sanctuary, whoever can make a path to it. And whoever rejects, then Allah has no need of the worlds."Whoever" includes all, mumins, muslims, kafir, mushriks, munafiq, etc. as Hajj is for all "AlNaas". So, peace for all, nobody will fight there.
Aayat quoted above 2191 is about "AlMasjid AlHaraam" not about "Bakka" nor "AlBayt". Interestingly, everybody has to make pilgrimage to "AlBayt", but "Mushrikeens" are not allowed to come near "AlMasjid AlHaraam" 928
928
928 O you who believe, the polytheists are impure, so let them not approach the Restricted Temple after this year of theirs; and if you fear poverty, then Allah will enrich you from His blessings if He wills. Allah is Knowledgeable, Wise.May Allah guide us all to His true path pr
Mohammed M. KhanHello "wize" man,
Could you "help" me !
What is or are;
Mu'min
Mu'slim
Kafir,
Mu'shrik
Mu'nafiq
& which "pilgrimage" exist at that Time !?
Sorry for all those "questions", but you "sounds" full of "science" for me,
And i ne ed to "understand" i "GO" m'y "way".
Peace & Truth on Earth & above ours "heads" -
peace all,
In addition to what Bro mmkhan has said
2125 And when We made the BYT a place of return/filling/reward for mankind and a security...
People can fight at any physical place/location. No location is 100% secure. Can one prove God wrong by simply fighting at such a location or even destroying such a thing? Ponder.
Does HJJ = pilgrimage?
2196 ...then whoever enjoyed in the visit TO the pilgrimage..." ?
etc.?And kill them wherever you encounter them, and expel them from where they expelled you, and know that persecution is worse than being killed. And do not fight them AAinda al masjid al haram unless they fight you fihi; if they fight you then kill them, thus is the recompense of the rejecters.? (Qur?an 2191)
Ayn-Nun-Dal / AAinda = Preposition here, with, by, at the point of, about, from, in the presence of. The word denotes the idea of nearness, whether it be actual in the sense of possession or ideational, it also denotes a sense of rank or dignity or opinion, time and place.
fihi = in/at/on it
)
Just some things to ponder over.
Hello,
"who" had to expel "those" "who" had expel ed !!!
Sorry, it became "dark" for me... Could you "help" ?
Peace & Truth on Earth & above ours "heads" -
Today I read a short summary based on a book written by a Canadian Historian named Dan Gibson who has claimed to have spent many years studying the history of the Arabian peninsular.
Here?s the linkwww.searchformecca.com/Mecca Question.pdf
In the his book ?Quranic geography? he claims that the city of Petra is the REAL historical Mecca and that the Mecca of today is the not the city in which Prophet Muhammad came from. I have read the summary of what the book has and I do intend on purchasing the book very soon. Here?s the link http//www.indipress.ca/feature.html
Now he does not say that Jerusalem is the Qibla instead it says that Petra is where the original qibla is situated. In any case archaeological evidence along with clear verses in the Quran (sura 3-96-97) tend to prove that Jerusalem is indeed the correct Qibla since it has been recorded as a major sight of pilgrimage.
?When the old mosque was torn down, the foundation stones of the earlier mosque
revealed that the original building faced north towards both Petra and Jerusalem
which were in almost exactly the same direction. Gibson believes that this
is the origin of the claim that the first qibla faced Jerusalem.? ( The Old Mosque mentioned here is the Mosque of the Two Qiblas. )Also the verses sura 396 ? 97 along with historical and archaeological evidence shows that the original Qibla has to be Jerusalem. Even though he (Mr.Gibson) doesn?t make the claim that Jerusalem is the Real Holy City of Islam he does believe that the rulers back in the day did a lot of ?covering up? and changes in Islam during the periods when they ruled the Islamic world. This is my view explains the perception that I had for a while now that after Muhammad?s death all hell broke loose! What I mean by this is that the Nabataeans who were originally pagans started to evolve the original religion/practices of Islam , and started changing a whole bunch of things in Islam. You can say a sort of blending of religions took place. Myths and superstitions dealing with the Black Stone, revolving around the Kaaba , the kissing of the Black stone all of which are pagan practices of the Nabataean people.
http//wikiislam.net/wiki/The_Pagan_Origins_of_Islam
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petra
http//www.kinghussein.gov.jo/his_nabateans.html (A brief history of the Nabataeans )Note This is exactly the same thing that happened to Christianity. A lot of the Christian practices of today are of Greek and Roman origin.
My conclusions In light of my intense study over the past couple of days I have come to the conclusion that Jerusalem is the Qibla and the correct place of Pilgrimage and not Mecca. This is due to the fact that the Quran says in Sura 396 ? 97 396
?The first house established for the public is the one in Bakka, blessed, and guidance for the worlds.
In it are clear signs the place of Abraham. Whoever enters it will be secure. Pilgrimage to the sanctuary is a duty from God for the people who can afford a means to it. Whoever rejects, and then God has no need of the worlds.?Facts to remember
- Bakka is located in Jerusalem.
- The earliest mosques built faced Jerusalem and not Mecca
- Jerusalem is a city recognized by the Jews and the Christians as a place of pilgrimage for hundreds of years
- It also explains why Muhammad was preoccupied fighting
Could not be "Right" ... Pleaz find ? "better" "explanation" sir !
Peace & Truth on Earth & above ours "heads" -
Today I read a short summary based on a book written by a Canadian Historian named Dan Gibson who has claimed to have spent many years studying the history of the Arabian peninsular.
Here?s the linkwww.searchformecca.com/Mecca Question.pdf
In the his book ?Quranic geography? he claims that the city of Petra is the REAL historical Mecca and that the Mecca of today is the not the city in which Prophet Muhammad came from. I have read the summary of what the book has and I do intend on purchasing the book very soon. Here?s the link http//www.indipress.ca/feature.html
Now he does not say that Jerusalem is the Qibla instead it says that Petra is where the original qibla is situated. In any case archaeological evidence along with clear verses in the Quran (sura 3-96-97) tend to prove that Jerusalem is indeed the correct Qibla since it has been recorded as a major sight of pilgrimage.
?When the old mosque was torn down, the foundation stones of the earlier mosque
revealed that the original building faced north towards both Petra and Jerusalem
which were in almost exactly the same direction. Gibson believes that this
is the origin of the claim that the first qibla faced Jerusalem.? ( The Old Mosque mentioned here is the Mosque of the Two Qiblas. )Also the verses sura 396 ? 97 along with historical and archaeological evidence shows that the original Qibla has to be Jerusalem. Even though he (Mr.Gibson) doesn?t make the claim that Jerusalem is the Real Holy City of Islam he does believe that the rulers back in the day did a lot of ?covering up? and changes in Islam during the periods when they ruled the Islamic world. This is my view explains the perception that I had for a while now that after Muhammad?s death all hell broke loose! What I mean by this is that the Nabataeans who were originally pagans started to evolve the original religion/practices of Islam , and started changing a whole bunch of things in Islam. You can say a sort of blending of religions took place. Myths and superstitions dealing with the Black Stone, revolving around the Kaaba , the kissing of the Black stone all of which are pagan practices of the Nabataean people.
http//wikiislam.net/wiki/The_Pagan_Origins_of_Islam
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petra
http//www.kinghussein.gov.jo/his_nabateans.html (A brief history of the Nabataeans )Note This is exactly the same thing that happened to Christianity. A lot of the Christian practices of today are of Greek and Roman origin.
My conclusions In light of my intense study over the past couple of days I have come to the conclusion that Jerusalem is the Qibla and the correct place of Pilgrimage and not Mecca. This is due to the fact that the Quran says in Sura 396 ? 97 396
?The first house established for the public is the one in Bakka, blessed, and guidance for the worlds.
In it are clear signs the place of Abraham. Whoever enters it will be secure. Pilgrimage to the sanctuary is a duty from God for the people who can afford a means to it. Whoever rejects, and then God has no need of the worlds.?Facts to remember
- Bakka is located in Jerusalem.
- The earliest mosques built faced Jerusalem and not Mecca
- Jerusalem is a city recognized by the Jews and the Christians as a place of pilgrimage for hundreds of years
- It also explains why Muhammad was preoccupied fighting the Byzantines.
Then,
Whats about "Hindu" turning 7 Times around "Shiva" temple !?
And what is ? "mosque" ... Where could we read it for th? first Time ... In which "language" ???
Peace & Truth on Earth & above ours "heads" -
Salam KDC,
That is interesting work you refer to...The Natural Republic book refers to the same hypothesis - that Mekka of the Quran is Petra while Jerusalem is Bakka.
Salam Khan,
By reading the verses on the subject, you will find that the Masjid Haram and the Bayt are intwined.
That the call to pilgrimage was made to "the people" by Abraham does not negate that a new law/restriction was placed by God - after a specific year - that the polytheists are not to be welcomed there. The Quran brings laws that override/change the laws of Abraham or Moses or Jesus.
Hello,
Should not be th? "Law" for all and once ,...
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads" -
Salam Raging,
For the Muslims/Submitters.
No temple was destroyed in the Quran (you are thinking of Jewish history here - not the Quran).
The Jews don't even know where they were during the exile. There are various works that link them to the land of Sheba (southern Arabia) as being the location for Solomon and the home of the Jews (they refused to enter the holy land after Egypt, so they were exiled for 40 years during which they settled in southern Arabia).
So it should be. But they do not hold the Temple Mount to be their Qibla, rather the wailing wall which is a Roman construct.
Interesting you refer to 3 times because that is the number of Salat times in the Quran.
Mohammed was exiled from his home - but why do you assume Mecca Arabia was that place? The archeology of Petra makes it the closest candidate for being the true Mecca mentioned in the Quran.
Regards,
SLM,
Could "we" do, archeology "recherch" in "arabia" !?
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads" -
Salaam,
This is a genuine question, not sarcastic how do we know Prophet Muhammad, pbuh, lived near Sodom and Gomorrah and didn't just happen to be camped in that region during the revelation of sura 37?
Thanks
SLM,
So interesting "topic", i am so "glad" to hav? find it by azar !
You "sounds" full of "knowledge", could you help me, i am ? "beginer"..
Where in th? "quran" could we found th? name (of) "muhammad" and How it is "exact l'y" writed
Down !?
I Would like to "know", what feets better... "prophet" or "messenger" !??
Is it th? same ???
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads" -
Dear Raging,
I understand that some preconceptions are more difficult to let go than others...Even when the Qibla was shifted as a test for the Muslims, many found it very difficult to let go of the association they had made with a specific location and therefore failed the test.
God encompasses everything, therefore no matter if we turn to the east or the west, we will find the face of God.
However, if God tells us to unite on a specific site, then we can only "hear & obey".
As Muslims our Qibla has been designated to the "Masjid AlHaram/Restricted Temple" and the location of our pilgrimage is to "Bakka".
Tell me you are not sure where these locations are and I can accept that premise...Tell me that "Mecca" is your Qibla and pilgrimage, and I will say you are following what God has never authorized.
Regards,
SLM,
"clear" & "simple" to "comprehend" !
Thank you.
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads" -
Brother raginggaijin I sympathize with you and I admire your enthusiasm since you and I both came from Christian backgrounds. However I implore you to reconsider your position. The Mosque mentioned in Sura 171 as being the most distant temple is NOT Jerusalem ( your videos have inaccuracies ) . The Quran did NOT SAY SO. Read the Arabic yourself. Till you can show me and others where it says that the Mosque in Jerusalem is ?almasjidi al-aqsa? then you are only following conjecture.
Also the place of pilgrimage is at Bakka as the Quran says. Not Mecca!
396-97 The first house established for the public is the one in Bakka, blessed, and guidance for the worlds.
In it are clear signs the place of Abraham. Whoever enters it will be secure. Pilgrimage to the sanctuary is a duty from God for the people who can afford a means to it. Whoever rejects, and then God has no need of the worlds.You can?t say that Mecca is Bakka there are both two different places! The city of Mecca is mentioned only once in the Quran and it was a place that was blocking there donations to the Sacred Masjid. NO WHERE IN THE QURAN DOES IT SAY THAT THE MASJID RESIDED IN MECCA!
You are only following sectarian beliefs which you assume to be correct. Am I not right in saying that you are a bit na?ve . Do you really think that ?the way? was going to be just paved out for you without any sort of studying or verification? Didn?t God say in the Quran not to accept any information unless you verify it for yourself ?(Sura 1736) Have you yourself verified that Mecca is the correct place and not Jerusalem or did you just run with the crowd? Have you studied the history yourself or did you blindly accept what other people said?
Please verify the evidence yourself and you will see that all roads lead to Jerusalem and not Mecca.
Peace,
Kevin D.Cooper peace
SLM,
could you be "blessed" for your "Time" sharing here
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads" -
Peace Raging
According to the Quran the pilgrimage is to the house ( and not to the Masjidul Haram). The house was existing during Abrahams time. Abraham was raising the foundation and purifying the house, therefore your point of the non existence of a structure contradicts the Quran. Then Abraham invites mankind for the pilgrimage. So the pilgrimage would have happened from that point.
The bibilical temple Solomon built was after the Exodus. But the actual existence of Solomons temple is debated. Jerusalem is the most excavated place on earth for archeological research and IMHO there has not been one single evidence of such a temple. Maybe evidence of Herods temple but not Solomons temple. But I would like to see any information on this.
SLM,
do you mean " ibrahim " !?
Peace & Truth on Earth & above our "heads"