The Search for Muhammad has Ended
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hmm, I guess you are biased towards... let me guess... yes...
the Arabs and the Palestinians...
so long as they carry on as they are with the "sectarian muslims", the only thing they get from God is being chosen... to be punished!
now enjoy this wonderful bargain... bravo
dude you are hysterical and have issues? why the froth on the side of your mouth, did I rattle some snakes?dude you are hysterical and have issues? why the froth on the side of your mouth, did I rattle some snakes?
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Salam Bro IMHO,
You are absolutely right...
that being said, I believe in blood lines, and if anything, not being up to one's bloodline's initial blessings is a mighty curse, if not whyNabil
Salaam Bro
So do many Shia and Sunni who claim to descent from the prophet and call themselves Sayed and say like jew that fire will not touch them bla blaIt is also like those fundamentalists who want to deny others the right to be rich, and use Religion as an excuse to thief from others that God has blessed with riches, and the opposite with the Rich exploiting the poor by not giving them enough for their labour because they have the upper hand and they can...
Are you talking about illegal occupation of the West Bank by fundamentalist Jews who claim that God has chosen them to snatch this land from its the Palestinians and throw them out of their homes, all because of their blood line?
Actually, I am anti-religious... and I believe Allah is too, and that He tolerates Religion so long as it leads to Goodness and the Shunning of Evil, but if it does the opposite, like the manifestations of the Inquisition or Zionism, of course these are abominations and exploitation of a perversion of Allah's Message to Mankind, which is Eeman in Allah and the shunning of Taghuut...
Peace and SalutationsWhat relegion are you talking about?
Islam is not a religion and we all have an individual responsibility before God Who clearly commands that we shun what is evil, like apartheid, and asks us rather sternly 'Why would you not help those who are oppressed and have been driven from their homes'? Allah does not say this about 'only those who follow our deen', no this is a general injunction. Is not the inhumane treatment of Sunni or Christian Palestinians exactly the kind of situation where God demands that we do our duty as Muslims and aid and protect them to the best of our ability?! Does this not fall under 'forbidding what is evil and promoting what is good; ie doing justice to whom ever is being denied that justice regardless of their creed?.You write to Huruf "dude you are hysterical and have issues?"
Huruf is not a "dude" but a very well versed, calm and collected articulate SISTER who cares about humanity. Do you have an issue with that?
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IMHO, Peace
OK...
as there are many other millions upon millions oppressed on the lands... so why single out only the Palestinian cause, and why assuming things about me I did not say...
It seems you too have issues...
whatever, no matter our arguments, only certain factors will help, among them help from the Almighty, and He does seem unwilling to give it to this "muslim" generation...
maybe it is because they do not deserve it? maybe it is why Israel is more powerful and resourceful than them? why would they then be punished by such a fierce and powerful enemy (those who accept as the Romans christened them, Palestinians as a name)...
On the one hand you say Islam is not a religion, on the other hand you want Islam to help the Palestinians who might be incurring the wrath of Allah (as do the rest of the Arabs, and the "muslims" at large)...
Sorry dude or dudette, no victory without Allah's leave...
These are the facts, accept them or bang your head on a wall...
By the way, Peace unto you too...
Shalom, Salamun alaikum warahmatu Allah wabarakatuhu...
PS I understand you want to be a knight and help a damzel in distress
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I just hope I can complete this thread before I am silenced.
Why the paranoia? Who gave you any indication that you would be silenced on this forum? It's just another thread with unconventional subject matter, don't worry.
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Why the paranoia? Who gave you any indication that you would be silenced on this forum? It's just another thread with unconventional subject matter, don't worry.
But Yes, many wandering scholars have come with unconventional approaches on this forum and then shortly withered away.
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IMHO, Peace
.......
maybe it is because they do not deserve it? maybe it is why Israel is more powerful and resourceful than them? why would they then be punished by such a fierce and powerful enemy (those who accept as the Romans christened them, Palestinians as a name)...It seems you too have issues...
PS I understand you want to be a knight and help a damzel in distress
Salaam Bro
According to your reasoning about the Palestinians, by the same token, the prophet and the first Muslims, were also being ?punished by such a fierce and powerful? enemy as the Meccans, when they were themselves powerless. The same would be true of all the prophets and their followers who were all denied and persecuted and driven from the land or killed by their ?fierce and powerful? enemies until God took them and destroyed them. Had God abandoned them too? No they were a trial for the unbelievers. Have you considered the possibility that your judgmental and callous attitude towards the suffering Palestinians might bring down the ire of God on your head ?dude??My issue is this surh below4;75
God asks you And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)? men, women, and children, whose cry is "Our Lord! rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from Thee one who will protect; and raise for us from Thee one who will help!"
I would happily be a ?knight? for these oppressed people; why wouldn?t you?Further, as brother Pazusu has pointed out in his well researched study, massive archaeological diggings up and down Palestine by no doubt Zionist archaeologists with a burning zeal to find proof of the legendary kingdom of Solomon has produced zilch. This is sufficient to conclude that Palestine was never the location of that fabled realm so ?Jews? have no business being there. They have more hope of finding their roots in southern Russia where their ?fierce and powerful people? first became ?Jews?.
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But Yes, many wandering scholars have come with unconventional approaches on this forum and then shortly withered away.
I am sure of that, and I am sure you are honest in your appreciation, and I do not think you include Pazuzu amongst those, since he has been int he forum for some time.
I also think that too many things have been taken for granted without a thourough study in the Qur'an based on assumptions which may be have been justified at some time, or even now, but that noentheless, just like everything else, should be subjecto to scrutiny.
Also as a general remark, I think that the Qur'an does not put much weight on pursuing historical studies, rather uses wheatever events, which may be real or not, I do not know, to illustrate the sunna of God, and his laws. It is not like the Bible which, according to Christians redemption hangs on a particular specific person undergoing rtrials and dying for the rescue of Humanity at a specific date. That is not the case for the revelation made in the Qur'an. The events it may narrate are valid, independently of the historical specificity of them.
That Musa lived in this age or that or here or there, does not change the teachings if you change the dates or de place at will. Therefore for Muslims, to prove the historicity of such events is not important, though it may be interesting and useful and niche from the point of view of general knowledge, but not from the point of view of lending validity or invalidating the teachings therein.
But of course, for other than those who believe in the Quranic teachings, whateve the Qur'an is purorted to say on specific events, may be welcome or unwelcome. We should not be drawn on that kind of suits, it is nothing to do with us and as followeres of the Qur'an we do not have to uphold or not uphold anybody else's tenets. The pieces may fall on whatever side, that should not be of any imortance for us as far as the teachings of the Qur'an are concerned.
That said, of course, I believe that God does not make mistakes, neither historical nor of any other kind, but Qur'an is not a book of history, nor of science. It has a purpose and it is revealed so that it fulfills that purpose.
I am sure, I am speaking for the convinced of course, but a feel that these things should be brought to the fore with all the polemics about these questions.
Salaam
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Dear huruf
Of course, the point of the "qasas" in the Quran (stories of past peoples) are simply to provide a cause for reflection, and to learn moral lessons from them. And that Quran is ultimately, a book of guidance, not history.
However, these events, whether true to the letter, or simply symbolic legends, MUST have a had a certain setting. They must have originated from somewhere. And that "somewhere" was sure as Hell not Palestine.
It is our DUTY to liberate Palestine from the clutches of Zionist tyranny. But this duty simply stems from the fact that someone hijacked their land and claimed it as their own. NOT because Palestine is a "Holy" land, from which Muhamad went to the 7th Heaven on the back of a winged horse.
The entire point of these threads I am making was to show you that whoever can forge the entire history of the region can sure as Hell forge your belief system, and corrupt Islam from the source. These people have existed since forever, and were the very same force (the unseen "power behind the throne" during the Umayyad Era, when Hadiths began to appear. The people who wrote these Hadiths are the SAME ones who corrupted the Torah.
The same enemy of humanity.
And I'm sure you know who I am referring to.
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But Yes, many wandering scholars have come with unconventional approaches on this forum and then shortly withered away.
Must've lost interest.As far as this thread (and a wandering scholar in particular) goes, many of us are reading it eagerly. I would like to know how things came about the way they did, if it did originate in that area.
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Dear huruf
Of course, the point of the "qasas" in the Quran (stories of past peoples) are simply to provide a cause for reflection, and to learn moral lessons from them. And that Quran is ultimately, a book of guidance, not history.
However, these events, whether true to the letter, or simply symbolic legends, MUST have a had a certain setting. They must have originated from somewhere. And that "somewhere" was sure as Hell not Palestine.
It is our DUTY to liberate Palestine from the clutches of Zionist tyranny. But this duty simply stems from the fact that someone hijacked their land and claimed it as their own. NOT because Palestine is a "Holy" land, from which Muhamad went to the 7th Heaven on the back of a winged horse.
The entire point of these threads I am making was to show you that whoever can forge the entire history of the region can sure as Hell forge your belief system, and corrupt Islam from the source. These people have existed since forever, and were the very same force (the unseen "power behind the throne" during the Umayyad Era, when Hadiths began to appear. The people who wrote these Hadiths are the SAME ones who corrupted the Torah.
The same enemy of humanity.
And I'm sure you know who I am referring to.
You certainly are right. historical frauds, rarely are innocent, y in the case of the Promised land and its sequels, it is obviously very guilty and we see which purposes it has served, and how much it has made a fool of many people, blessing "Israel" even when that label is pinned on murderers.
Salaam
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IMHO,
Salam
LOL!
Now why would archeologists in Israel will waste their time digging if as many say they know the truth and they will find nothing?I can accept and understand you feel for the Palestinians, as I do for any beings oppressed on the planet... in my view they are no different than people in Rwanda, Congo, Chechnya, Tibet, Sri Lanka, Libya, etc and are as deserving of support as any others under tyranny and dictatorship...
You clearly have vested interests with Palestine, or at least huruf has... that is your issue, not mine, so please do not bring me into it...
What I claim, is if they (Palestinians), especially an organisation like Hamas, wish for Allah's help, and believe they can muster what Prophets and Believers of old did get as help and intervention from God, then they need to clean up their act and follow Allah's guidance in truth...
It is my right to assert an opinion, which is that I am not convinced they do... as always this is debatable, but the theology they follow, and the results speak for themselves...
and incidentally, the ball is in the air, and despite your seemingly hatred for the Jews, they too can be guided by the Quran and become Muslim, so please, you have no right to deny guidance to anybody... now who will be guided, if at all, only Allah knows...
I suggest you become a bit more humble, as you too seem pretty self righteous...
and who bashed the Palestinians, if you like to bask into a victim's mentality be my guest...
Finally, I have been a member of this forum for a very long time, just ask Nadia... not participating or being dormant does not mean not staying informed...
Now pazuzu is writing pretty controversial stuff, and he offered enough material so far to pique my curiosity... thus my involvement...
I already moved from ignorance to further ignorance with interests in religions, then to sunnism and then to enlightenment with Quran and Islam with non-Mekkah centrism, now let us see what the info pazuzu has boils down to... despite the fact I am healthily open to any change that is corroborated by facts, i.e. the Truth...Your threat that I be punished by Allah is empty and meaningless... as only He decides...
Also, maybe it is better we stop engaging together if we cannot be cool headed in our exchanges...Salaam...
Nabil
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This is an ad hominem uncalled for, and not worthy of someone who claims to believe in God and the last day...
barking dog... that says a lot about you... and your maturity to debate when a proponent does not agree with you...
no one is beyond criticism, but you have no right to allude to posters as barking dogs, that is beyond the pail of civility...
Thanks, IMHO, for your kind words.
Let us not worry about barking dogs. We have better things to do.
Salaam
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Dear huruf
Of course, the point of the "qasas" in the Quran (stories of past peoples) are simply to provide a cause for reflection, and to learn moral lessons from them. And that Quran is ultimately, a book of guidance, not history.
However, these events, whether true to the letter, or simply symbolic legends, MUST have a had a certain setting. They must have originated from somewhere. And that "somewhere" was sure as Hell not Palestine.
It is our DUTY to liberate Palestine from the clutches of Zionist tyranny. But this duty simply stems from the fact that someone hijacked their land and claimed it as their own. NOT because Palestine is a "Holy" land, from which Muhamad went to the 7th Heaven on the back of a winged horse.
The entire point of these threads I am making was to show you that whoever can forge the entire history of the region can sure as Hell forge your belief system, and corrupt Islam from the source. These people have existed since forever, and were the very same force (the unseen "power behind the throne" during the Umayyad Era, when Hadiths began to appear. The people who wrote these Hadiths are the SAME ones who corrupted the Torah.
The same enemy of humanity.
And I'm sure you know who I am referring to.
This is all so interesting!
I was always wondering how is it possible that the Islam got corrupted as well, if The Quran came as the Furkan, as a definitive message and the very last Book from God...
I am also so curious to know who started with hadiths, because they do not make so much sense...
And, either I am totally innocent or dumb, but I do not know who are the same old enemies of humanity...?
sorry... -[ -
Salam,
Unfortunately, as happens on all forums, "believers" forget God.
God says Believers advocate peace, tolerance and kindness and that they treat each other in the best possible manner. They don't mock, ridicule or insult others.
What I see is a lot of arrogance, Ego, racism, anti-semitism and hate-mongering. All of which are traits of disbelievers.
God says believers advocate for justice but they can only do so in righteousness, otherwise they will go astray from His teachings and commandments to us.
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Salaam Brother Nabil
Darwinian Paleontologists have been in search of the ?missing link? between man and ape for well over a hundred years now, yet refuse to give up their quest. The reason is of course that it?s a fundament of their ?religion? that man and ape evolved from a common ancestor, therefore Mr. Link MUST be there. For the same reason Zionists are desperate to find proof of a great realm in Palestine that fits the description of Solomon?s kingdom and will only give up when the last stone has been turned over.
You accuse me of being anti Jewish. This is absolutely wrong. Just as I have nothing against Germans, but hate Nazis, I harbour no ill feelings for Jews, but despise Zionists; as do many Jews by the way. Zionist hasbara is trying to equate anti-Zionionism with anti-Semitism but this is a Satanic lie.
Empathy is unlimited, if you have been blessed with it and, for my part, it extends to all the oppressed of this earth in equal measure. However the Palestinians may be nearer to my heart than any other people as the cruelty against them seems especially pitiless. Much like Colonel Qadhafi Hamas has been much maligned by the dominant Zionist media and it?s very difficult to ascertain the truth about them. They have however been elected in free and fair elections and cannot be fobbed off as terrorists. As for cleaning up their act God alone knows who most needs such an overhaul.
I did, by no means, threaten you with anything, but simply reminded you of our duty as believers to stand up for the downtrodden of this earth, and this is the obligation of every Muslim. I have raised my voice against agression whenever my attention was drawn to it regardless of who the victims were.
Finally I agree that it?s better we stop engaging together as staying cool headed may prove very difficult.Peace and Salutations
