The Search for Muhammad has Ended
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Please leave Jesus out of this. The subject of "Jesus" cannot be done any justice, unless it is kept in a seperate thread.
I can't post in 3 threads at the same time.I have one more post to make in the "Pharaoh of Moses" thread, and then I will permanently sign out from there, and focus my attention here.
You asked "Who else in the World was begotten out of a virgin and was called the Messiah, and raised the dead, and fed many people with only a little bit of food"
The answer to that is These are legends that the Nasara of Arabia had about Isa (Esau) son of Mariam, the daughter of Amran. He was born shortly after Moses' time, in the outskirts of Najran, which was the craddle of the Nasarene Creed. (And later, that same city saw the birth of the Nestorian Christian faith, which ticked off the Himyarite Jews of Yemen, and ultimately led to the Massacre of the Trench).
The Jesus (Yeshua) of the New Testament could not have been born of a virgin mother. The reason is because both Paul and John mention his familly tree very clearly, through his father Joseph, and trace him all the way back to David. (i.e he was Jesus, son of Joseph the Craftsman, son of so and so and so and so ...............son of David). Do you get the picture? How can he be born of a virgin mother AND have a familly tree (lineage) through HIS FATHER, all the way to David? Can't you see the glaring contradiction? This is something that the Christians like to keep "in the closet" (so to speak). It means that Paul and John used a different source for their writings than did Mark, Mathew and Luke.
And this source was the lost Injeel of the Nasara, which Paul recovered during his "mysterious" trip to Arabia, where he spent 3 years.
Paul attributed to Jesus (a charismatic and political rebel who sought to overthrow Roman rule of Palestine) all that the Nasara had written about Esau, centuries earlier. And he did this for political reasons.
Hence CHRISTIANITY IS A LIE CREATED BY THE JEWS, FOR POLITICAL MANIPULATION (protection of Roman interests in Palestine).
This is all I will say about the subject here.
It is completely off topic, and needs a seperate thread of its own.
Peace...
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Peace Pazuzu peace
you disregarded the real apostles of Jesus, which have an account to their own version of the "Gospel".
I woud say the best account, and another member has stated this also (Jafar), that the Gospel of Matthew is the best account.You brought out paul but you disregarded the previous accounts. Jesus' doctrine was simple and put
Also, Joseph adopted the child Jesus, to my thinking, and so, Joseph is not his real father.
Again you bring out paul, who does have his claims, but you disregarded the doctrine of Jesus.
Paul came after Jesus. The Gospels according to Mark, Mathew and Luke, seme to be more in line.
Paul was NOT a prophet, his writings should not be accounted for as Laws decreed By God Almighty.
Jesus did not come to abolish the law, as he stated in his own words in the Gospels. He came to confirm the Torah, and to make some unlawful things lawful to the children of Israel, as the Quran States.As i mentioned before, some of his followers adopted hermitism, but nevertheless, his true followers of his tecahings are nice/compassionate, and closer in friendship to the believers of the Quran, as stated in the Quran.
Peace peace
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Peace youssef4342, pazuzu,
I tend to agree with you, Bro youssef4342...
but it was a mistake to bring in the issue of Jesus in this thread, because it distracts from the subject of Muhammad (P)...My interest will transform into amazement if I am told that the actual Muhammad of Yathrib is not the real Muhammad, but a charismatic and industrious Jew who hijacked the teachings of the Revelations of the Message of the Quran in Yemen's Asir from the real Muhammad (P) many years later in order for the Jews to have a new go at taking over Palestine from the Romans...
That will indeed be a double whammy of manipulations, the likes of which there has never been before )
now am I right or am I right, is history repeating itself in the Hijaz and ME, or am I stretching my imagination a bit far... laugh
Peace and Smiles )
Peace Pazuzu peace
you disregarded the real apostles of Jesus, which have an account to their own version of the "Gospel".
I woud say the best account, and another member has stated this also (Jafar), that the Gospel of Matthew is the best account.You brought out paul but you disregarded the previous accounts. Jesus' doctrine was simple and put
Also, Joseph adopted the child Jesus, to my thinking, and so, Joseph is not his real father.
Again you bring out paul, who does have his claims, but you disregarded the doctrine of Jesus.
Paul came after Jesus. The Gospels according to Mark, Mathew and Luke, seme to be more in line.
Paul was NOT a prophet, his writings should not be accounted for as Laws decreed By God Almighty.
Jesus did not come to abolish the law, as he stated in his own words in the Gospels. He came to confirm the Torah, and to make some unlawful things lawful to the children of Israel, as the Quran States.As i mentioned before, some of his followers adopted hermitism, but nevertheless, his true followers of his tecahings are nice/compassionate, and closer in friendship to the believers of the Quran, as stated in the Quran.
Peace peace
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Please leave Jesus out of this. The subject of "Jesus" cannot be done any justice, unless it is kept in a seperate thread.
I can't post in 3 threads at the same time.I have one more post to make in the "Pharaoh of Moses" thread, and then I will permanently sign out from there, and focus my attention here.
You asked "Who else in the World was begotten out of a virgin and was called the Messiah, and raised the dead, and fed many people with only a little bit of food"
The answer to that is These are legends that the Nasara of Arabia had about Isa (Esau) son of Mariam, the daughter of Amran. He was born shortly after Moses' time, in the outskirts of Najran, which was the craddle of the Nasarene Creed. (And later, that same city saw the birth of the Nestorian Christian faith, which ticked off the Himyarite Jews of Yemen, and ultimately led to the Massacre of the Trench).
The Jesus (Yeshua) of the New Testament could not have been born of a virgin mother. The reason is because both Paul and John mention his familly tree very clearly, through his father Joseph, and trace him all the way back to David. (i.e he was Jesus, son of Joseph the Craftsman, son of so and so and so and so ...............son of David). Do you get the picture? How can he be born of a virgin mother AND have a familly tree (lineage) through HIS FATHER, all the way to David? Can't you see the glaring contradiction? This is something that the Christians like to keep "in the closet" (so to speak). It means that Paul and John used a different source for their writings than did Mark, Mathew and Luke.
And this source was the lost Injeel of the Nasara, which Paul recovered during his "mysterious" trip to Arabia, where he spent 3 years.
Paul attributed to Jesus (a charismatic and political rebel who sought to overthrow Roman rule of Palestine) all that the Nasara had written about Esau, centuries earlier. And he did this for political reasons.
Hence CHRISTIANITY IS A LIE CREATED BY THE JEWS, FOR POLITICAL MANIPULATION (protection of Roman interests in Palestine).
This is all I will say about the subject here.
It is completely off topic, and needs a separate thread of its own.
Peace...
Incredible! incredible! amazing!
I always felt that it was so!
As much as I researched the official Gospels, it always looked as if they were copied or imitated from somewhere else...Pazuzu thank you sooooo much for eyeopening information!
PS
I also invite EVERYBODY to read the book "The Antichrist" by the greatest thinker Friedrich Nietsche, where he analyses the creation and effect of Christianity by Paul and other forgers as Pazuzu well shows. (Oh, Nietsche, Nietsche, you knew it all!)
I think if Nietsche had access and information about the Quran he would have embraced Islam.Here is the book for all you to read
http//nietzsche.holtof.com/Nietzsche_the_antichrist/the_antichrist.htm
Read it carefully, it requires maturity and practice in critical integrated thinking.
I hope the day will come when all the lies about Judaism, Christianity and Islam will be unmasked! It is just so puzzling who is creating them all?
Who are the same old enemies of humanity, as Pazuzu once put it so well? -
Please leave Jesus out of this. The subject of "Jesus" cannot be done any justice, unless it is kept in a seperate thread.
Hence CHRISTIANITY IS A LIE CREATED BY THE JEWS, FOR POLITICAL MANIPULATION (protection of Roman interests in Palestine).
This is all I will say about the subject here.
It is completely off topic, and needs a seperate thread of its own.
I agree Pazuzu completely!
I only wish if YOU could post that new thread about Jesus and Christianity, and share all that precious information that you have about it!
Thank you -
Peace
Well well, nothing new...
Layth "proves" Ramadan is in the winter time... Ayman "proves" that Ramadan is in summer time...
Edip/Rachid "prove" 19 is miraculous number for Quran... Ayman "proves" it is a hoax...
pazuzu "proves" Misr is not Egypt, Jerusalem is not David's Temple, Layth/NDP "prove" the opposite...
However the one who do the most work and have the most data is in my view the one who has the upper hand...
As in our case, I find it too convenient that Akkadian scrolls in the 19th century are unearthed to prove that Misr is Egypt... and if Akkadian semitic language was used as language of diplomacy, an important and vital tool of communication between Nations' rulers, will it be not rational to expect far more scrolls of this type than the ones waiting to be miraculously exposed in the 19th century, a century where banking and financial transactions using the forbidden system of usury becoming the norm in Europe and America?
And in any event why would we shy away from any possibility, why absolutely want that a scenario we are used to be the true factual scenario...
Will it really be the end of the world if it were not?
Let us give a chance for Allah's truth to shine no matter how annoying/damaging it be to our ego or creatures' comforts... a bit like a change of Qiblah for the Believers in Muhammad's time...
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On the "Pharoah" thread, member GROAN wrote the following
Pazuzu Salaam,
I'm an old member drawn back to this board by your tantalizing expose on the Pharao of Moses being in Arabia. I want to compliment you on your excellent research and say Jazzakh Allahu Kheir, may Allah be pleased with you brother. Just a question; am I understanding you correctly in assuming that Sanaa in Yemen is the real Jerusalem (the mother of cities), and also the place to which we as Muslims should perform Hajj and Umrah?
I hope I will have the energy to continue. Everything I have posted so far amounts to about 20% of the whole picture.
To answer your question concerning the "qibla" The Hajj and Umrah were NEVER meant to take place in a city. What you are seeing in Mecca today is a complete farce and a joke that the Saudis think they can play on Allah. They have surrounded their alleged "Bayt' ul Haram" with 5-star hotels and skyscrapers, turning the place into a tourist attraction, and discriminating between the visitors (they have 3-star Hajj visa, 4-star Hajj visa, 5-star Hajj visa, Platinum Hajj visa, etc...).
Allah willing, they will all burn in Hell for their lies and corruption of the Deen.
Abraham(P) never set foot in what is today called "Mecca", nor did he build a cubic structure of any kind. The word "Kaaba" in the Quran does not mean "cube". What he did was that he settled, with his progeny, in a secluded vale somewhere in the mountains of Asir, not far from the trade routes. This vale ITSELF is the Bayt. The Quran clearly says that people can ENTER the Bayt and be secure. Do you see people entering the Cube today?
As for the Umm al Qura (Mother if Towns) the way I see it, since Allah is describing it as "Mother", this means it must be the oldest of the towns (the oldest settlement), and it must have always been on the trade routes, and it must be somewhere in the Asir region.
Does current day Mecca fit these criteria?
The number one candidate for the "Umm al Qura" (Mother of the Towns) is none other than the city of Najran, which lies near the Saudi - Yemeni border. Not only was it at the hub of the trade routes, but it was also the target for many military campains by the Assyrians, the Egyptians, and even the Romans, as I will prove to you later on. These Kingdoms and empires understood very well that if they controlled Najran, they controlled the trade routes. It was in, or near that city that the Nasara, the followers of Isa, son of Maryam, were centered. And it was there that Isa proclaimed of another prophet who would come after him and preach the scripture. Who could this prophet be? It was to Najran that Paul travelled, and brought with him the "membrana" (animal skins) containing Aramaic writings about the life and legends of Isa, which he then gave to his teacher, Ananias of Damascus, and used them to preach Christianity. And it was in Najran that the famous "Massacre of the Trench" took place, when the Himyarite Jews poured burning oil over the Nestorian Christians, an event that has been documented by the Roman Church, the Ethiopian Church, the historians and academics of Yemen itself, and the Quran.
Anywhere you go and look for information on this city, you will read something along the lines of
"The history of Najran can be traced back to 4000 years ago. (which means it existed even before Abraham!) It was once occupied by the Romans; in fact it was the first Yemeni city to fall to the Romans on their way to the Yemeni kingdom of Sheba. Najran's most prosperous trading time was during the 1st and 2nd centuries BC. In ancient times it was known as Al-Ukhdood (the Trench)".
Did Mecca even exist 4000 years ago? Did Jerusalem even exist back then? The earth and soil of Palestine, which the Zionists have been turning inside out for over 80 years, tells us that it most certanly did NOT.
Does Mecca or Jerusalem fit these criteria?
Also on the "Pharoah" thread, sister Samia wrote
Thanks for the response.
So you believe that bani Israel left with Moses to Yemen? Where were they before?This is the whole problem with the version of the story which we have believed is the unqestionable truth. However you look at it, it just does NOT add up. The rampant story claims that the Children of Israel "spawned" in Egypt, then went to their "Promised Land of Palestine", then, out of the blue, David and Solomon appeared in Yemen?
You asked "Where were they before?"
I will tell you that they WERE in South West Arabia all along. That is where they originated in the first place. Until we accept this truth we will be forever lost in the desert of Jewish lies, and unable to anwser the puzzling questions that have boggled our minds for centuries.
Also on the "Pharoah" thread, member Kamking wrote
Salam Pazuzu, kindly continue
There is nothing more to add. That thread, as far as I am concerned is finished.
I will now focus my attention here.
But first, there is this issue concerning the term "Hebrew" which I need to clear out first...
Peace...
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Jazaka Allah Brother pazuzu,
your clarifications are most enlightening...
the implications when forensic investigations prove this analysis is correct will be huge...
In the mean time, Occam's Razor logic favours your scenario... simplest is the best...
Allah's blessings
Nabil
On the "Pharoah" thread, member GROAN wrote the following
I hope I will have the energy to continue. Everything I have posted so far amounts to about 20% of the whole picture.
To answer your question concerning the "qibla" The Hajj and Umrah were NEVER meant to take place in a city. What you are seeing in Mecca today is a complete farce and a joke that the Saudis think they can play on Allah. They have surrounded their alleged "Bayt' ul Haram" with 5-star hotels and skyscrapers, turning the place into a tourist attraction, and discriminating between the visitors (they have 3-star Hajj visa, 4-star Hajj visa, 5-star Hajj visa, Platinum Hajj visa, etc...).
Allah willing, they will all burn in Hell for their lies and corruption of the Deen.
Abraham(P) never set foot in what is today called "Mecca", nor did he build a cubic structure of any kind. The word "Kaaba" in the Quran does not mean "cube". What he did was that he settled, with his progeny, in a secluded vale somewhere in the mountains of Asir, not far from the trade routes. This vale ITSELF is the Bayt. The Quran clearly says that people can ENTER the Bayt and be secure. Do you see people entering the Cube today?
As for the Umm al Qura (Mother if Towns) the way I see it, since Allah is describing it as "Mother", this means it must be the oldest of the towns (the oldest settlement), and it must have always been on the trade routes, and it must be somewhere in the Asir region.
Does current day Mecca fit these criteria?
The number one candidate for the "Umm al Qura" (Mother of the Towns) is none other than the city of Najran, which lies near the Saudi - Yemeni border. Not only was it at the hub of the trade routes, but it was also the target for many military campains by the Assyrians, the Egyptians, and even the Romans, as I will prove to you later on. These Kingdoms and empires understood very well that if they controlled Najran, they controlled the trade routes. It was in, or near that city that the Nasara, the followers of Isa, son of Maryam, were centered. And it was there that Isa proclaimed of another prophet who would come after him and preach the scripture. Who could this prophet be? It was to Najran that Paul travelled, and brought with him the "membrana" (animal skins) containing Aramaic writings about the life and legends of Isa, which he then gave to his teacher, Ananias of Damascus, and used them to preach Christianity. And it was in Najran that the famous "Massacre of the Trench" took place, when the Himyarite Jews poured burning oil over the Nestorian Christians, an event that has been documented by the Roman Church, the Ethiopian Church, the historians and academics of Yemen itself, and the Quran.
Anywhere you go and look for information on this city, you will read something along the lines of
"The history of Najran can be traced back to 4000 years ago. (which means it existed even before Abraham!) It was once occupied by the Romans; in fact it was the first Yemeni city to fall to the Romans on their way to the Yemeni kingdom of Sheba. Najran's most prosperous trading time was during the 1st and 2nd centuries BC. In ancient times it was known as Al-Ukhdood (the Trench)".
Did Mecca even exist 4000 years ago? Did Jerusalem even exist back then? The earth and soil of Palestine, which the Zionists have been turning inside out for over 80 years, tells us that it most certanly did NOT.
Does Mecca or Jerusalem fit these criteria?
Also on the "Pharoah" thread, sister Samia wrote
This is the whole problem with the version of the story which we have believed is the unqestionable truth. However you look at it, it just does NOT add up. The rampant story claims that the Children of Israel "spawned" in Egypt, then went to their "Promised Land of Palestine", then, out of the blue, David and Solomon appeared in Yemen?
You asked "Where were they before?"
I will tell you that they WERE in South West Arabia all along. That is where they originated in the first place. Until we accept this truth we will be forever lost in the desert of Jewish lies, and unable to anwser the puzzling questions that have boggled our minds for centuries.
Also on the "Pharoah" thread, member Kamking wrote
There is nothing more to add. That thread, as far as I am concerned is finished.
I will now focus my attention here.
But first, there is this issue concerning the term "Hebrew" which I need to clear out first...
Peace...
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Salam ALL,
I was going around some old maps in my home, and suddenly i found MAKA region name in what is today Oman.. hmm
also find this http//www.livius.org/maa-mam/maka/maka.html
The name Maka for what is now called Oman is very ancient; in the third millennium, the Akkadians already knew a country called Magan, which, they claimed, had been conquered by their king Naram-Sin (2254-2218; ABC 20). Later, it was called Qade by the Babylonians; the Assyrian king A??urbanipal (668-631 BCE) mentions a country Pade with a capital Iski, which must be Izki in Oman. The Persian name Maka is, therefore, an archaism (which is not uncommon in this period). ....continues
Anything about this fact? if some historian around or even Pazuzu can explain to me this i would apreciatte, im not frm that region so i canot speak... if it was about Gharb Alandaluz i could try to answer because thats my region
Shukran sun
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Brother Pazuzu. I sincerely hope you will have the energy to continue. I believe you?re doing God?s work here and may He reward you greatly and give you the strength to complete your mission of truth! I agree with Mecca as a site of Hajj being ?a complete farce?, however I pray that the perpetrators will be enlightened rather than burning.
??Abraham(P) never set foot in what is today called "Mecca", nor did he build a cubic structure of any kind. The word "Kaaba" in the Quran does not mean "cube". What he did was that he settled, with his progeny, in a secluded vale somewhere in the mountains of Asir, not far from the trade routes. This vale ITSELF is the Bayt. The Quran clearly says that people can ENTER the Bayt and be secure. Do you see people entering the Cube today???
Most interesting!
The number one candidate for the "Umm al Qura" (Mother of the Towns) is none other than the city of Najran, which lies near the Saudi - Yemeni border. Not only was it at the hub of the trade routes, but it was also the target for many military campaigns by the Assyrians, the Egyptians, and even the Romans, as I will prove to you later on. These Kingdoms and empires understood very well that if they controlled Najran, they controlled the trade routes.
"The history of Najran can be traced back to 4000 years ago. (which means it existed even before Abraham!) It was once occupied by the Romans; in fact it was the first Yemeni city to fall to the Romans on their way to the Yemeni kingdom of Sheba. Najran's most prosperous trading time was during the 1st and 2nd centuries BC. In ancient times it was known as Al-Ukhdood (the Trench)".What you write makes complete sense to me and has that unmistakable ring of truth. Please do continue!
wow yes -
Head-Point wise summmary of the disjointed and scattered thoughts spread over 12 pages would be useful.
Salaam brother
Pazuzu has been clearly replying and writing at the same time, and he has not hidden the fact that he is using a lot of material and has compacted it in a concise form for all our benefit, yet instead of appreciating his efforts you expect him to now put bullet points for you!! This reminds me of the children of Israel when they were asked to sacrifice a heifer; tell us the exaxt colour of the cow etc.
Since you say on your website to point out your mistakes show right way so, if I was you brother Mazhar I would take off the picture of the so called Prophet's Mosque in Medina and of course "the cu be" from http//haqeeqat.org.pk and for the love of prophet give real account.
Alllah has not made the Saudies custodians of the Bayt al Haram nope -
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Mazhar, you seem to me to be very easy on criticism, and very shy on research and hard work...
Do you feel satisfied to become a Saudi worshiper and a Mohammedan (submitting to the cult of the hadiths' unproven Mohammed story)
instead of being a true Muslim as strictly defined by the Holy Quran? and derive your faith from The Quran as Allah enjoins you?
How about you help Bro pazuzu and produce what you ask of him, the material is all there, and the hard work is done, you just need to classify it... at least then you will be in a better position to contribute and criticise...
or do you just like to shoot from the hip, any bearer of news that do not fit into what your parents and mullahs have taught you?
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Mazhar, you seem to me to be very easy on criticism, and very shy on research and hard work...
Do you feel satisfied to become a Saudi worshiper and a Mohammedan (submitting to the cult of the hadiths' unproven Mohammed story)
instead of being a true Muslim as strictly defined by the Holy Quran? and derive your faith from The Quran as Allah enjoins you?
How about you help Bro pazuzu and produce what you ask of him, the material is all there, and the hard work is done, you just need to classify it... at least then you will be in a better position to contribute an criticise...
or do you just like to shoot from the hip, any bearer of news that do not fit into what your parents and mullahs have taught you?
Excelent view.. bravo bravo bravo
Mazhar, sorry youre not being a respected Muslim in fact nopepeace
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Mazhar, you seem to me to be very easy on criticism, and very shy on research and hard work...
Do you feel satisfied to become a Saudi worshiper and a Mohammedan (submitting to the cult of the hadiths' unproven Mohammed story)
instead of being a true Muslim as strictly defined by the Holy Quran? and derive your faith from The Quran as Allah enjoins you?
How about you help Bro pazuzu and produce what you ask of him, the material is all there, and the hard work is done, you just need to classify it... at least then you will be in a better position to contribute and criticise...
or do you just like to shoot from the hip, any bearer of news that do not fit into what your parents and mullahs have taught you?
I know that people who do not have substance in their minds eventually have a very loud mouth.
If you think that pazuzu has put some material worth consideration and that you have become enlightened and a scholar, okay, you pin down what has he said and his conclusions reached. Otherwise keep your mouth shut.
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(Hence the word "Isra'a", which is derived from the root "srr", which means secret).
Salaam Pazuzu
This s completely wrong. "israa'" has a different root from "srr" and thus a different meaning.
You already wrote "srr" with two r's. Israa' has only one "r"( ب
.
.The root for "israa'" is "sra" walk at night
( ط
.
~ .
{ } .The first verse of chapter 17 most probably concerns Musa not Muhammad. From verse 2 to verse 8 mentions Musa and tells part of his story with the Children of Israel in this context.
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The first verse of chapter 17 most probably concerns Musa not Muhammad. From verse 2 to verse 8 mentions Musa and tells part of his story with the Children of Israel in this context.
Does an object of a preceding verb relate to an other object of subsequent different verb?
Can a pronoun be used for a named person before he is named in the text?
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Does an object of a preceding verb relate to an other object of subsequent different verb?
Can a pronoun be used for a named person before he is named in the text?
Where is this "preceding" pronoun?
He is referred to in verse 1 as "abdihi, aka subject of God".
The only pronoun in verse 1 refers to God Himself.