Maybe I'm wrong: Desperate god
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How can you claim to follow the deen of Ibrahim, while at the same time denying the divine origin of the Quraan?? Would Ibrahim, whom Allah (swt) took for a friend, have denied the same?? nope
Fyi., just checked and found that most of the verses in Quran used 'millata'(in Arabic) or 'creed'(in English) of Ibrahim instead of 'deen' of Ibrahim. Example in verse 2130 below.
2130 And who would abandon the creed of Abraham except one who fools himself? We have selected him in this world, and in the Hereafter he is of the righteous.
But it doesn't matter as both Arabic's 'deen' and 'millata' can be translated as 'religion' for discussion purpose.
Back to your question, I didn't claimed that I follow Ibrahim's religion and that's the reason why I started the sentence with 'What if'.
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Also see 548 "And We have sent down to you the Book with the truth, authenticating what is between your hands of the Book and superseding it. So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth." hail
And this "If it were from other than God, they would have found in it numerous contradictions." 482
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In this verse Allah claims authorship to the Quraan so do you belive God or not?? & Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?
Yes, I still believe in GOD and only GOD. No books, prophets, angels and judgement day. Only GOD.
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Yes, I still believe in GOD and only GOD. No books, prophets, angels and judgement day. Only GOD.
So you believe in God, but do NOT believe what He tells us to believe in??! nope wow
?Follow what has been sent down to you from your Lord (Quran); do not follow other masters beside Him.? 73 -
So you believe in God, but do NOT believe what He tells us to believe in??! nope wow
?Follow what has been sent down to you from your Lord (Quran); do not follow other masters beside Him.? 73You don't expect somebody like me to accept arguments from Quran while at the same time I'm going against it because I think it is not from GOD. The first things you need to do is to prove to me that Quran is really from GOD because I'm still believe in GOD. The reason I'm saying this is that I observed few imperfections and discrepancies in Quran teaching. The GOD I'm believing in is PERFECT and HIS 'instructions' are very CLEAR.
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You don't expect somebody like me to accept arguments from Quran while at the same time I'm going against it because I think it is not from GOD. The first things you need to do is to prove to me that Quran is really from GOD because I'm still believe in GOD. The reason I'm saying this is that I observed few imperfections and discrepancies in Quran teaching. The GOD I'm believing in is PERFECT and HIS 'instructions' are very CLEAR.
Salaams
God is perfect but your understanding and conception of Him is imperfect. Nobody can prove to you that the Quraan is from God, and if it was proved to you it would be useless, as God values faith not the yielding to proof. Enough now of this. -
Salaams
God is perfect but your understanding and conception of Him is imperfect. Nobody can prove to you that the Quraan is from God, and if it was proved to you it would be useless, as God values faith not the yielding to proof. Enough now of this.Thank you very much.
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The author of Quran did realized this stereotype attitude among the people of the book.
2120 And the Jews will not be pleased with you, nor the Christians until you follow their religion. Say Surely Allah's guidance, that is the (true) guidance. And if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, you shall have no guardian from Allah, nor any helper.
2135 And they say Be Jews or Christians, you will be on the right course. Say Nay! (we follow) the religion of Ibrahim, the Hanif, and he was not one of the polytheists.
What if I say that I'm following Abraham's religion? Abraham's religion do not have any book. Simply follow the 'fitrah'.
Your understanding of islam is heavy influenced by the hadith myths.
First of all, who told you that people of the book are limited to jews and christians?
If you ask me, considering the word PEOPLE OF THE BOOK, I would say it includes muslims as well.
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Yes, I still believe in GOD and only GOD. No books, prophets, angels and judgement day. Only GOD.
But you might believe in some revelation since you believe in God. There must be something revealed to you, since you began to believe in God. Whether you noticed it or not. Hence you actually believe in messengers and angels, since they where the one who delivered the message to you. Let me give you an example.
I saw a documentary on bbc channel about some docters who argued that the complexity in the human body shows that it is impossible that it was created by it self. There arguments were really convincing to me, hence they actually served as Gods messengers to me, or maybe they even served as angels, since angels serves as connections between God and humans.
Secondly, the day of judgement day... well, if one who believes in God, but believes that God created for you no purpose, that this life is the only life and there is nothing after death, than of course you do not believe in the judgement day. But in the other hand, if you are a person who believes in God, and think its only logical that God has bigger plans for you, that this life is not all and that there must be something after death, that you feel you just must meet God and talk to him afterwards - than sure you believe in the judgement day. I tend to agree most with the later.
Peace
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You don't expect somebody like me to accept arguments from Quran while at the same time I'm going against it because I think it is not from GOD. The first things you need to do is to prove to me that Quran is really from GOD because I'm still believe in GOD. The reason I'm saying this is that I observed few imperfections and discrepancies in Quran teaching. The GOD I'm believing in is PERFECT and HIS 'instructions' are very CLEAR.
It is quite clear to me that you have terrible interpretation skills which is why you most likely don't understand what you read. I would like to here some of your arguments about the discrepancies in the Quranic teaching. Show to me "some of the discrepancies" and I would show to you that there are none.
Of note do you even know about the NUMEROUS Mathematical and Scientific signs in the Quran??? Maybe in your dream world a group of desert Arabs could take there time and come up with all these signs and mathematically consistencies and decide and say " Hey lets tell no one about the signs " The reason why I say this is because a lot of these signs were found in the FUTURE and not the past.
If a group of people just decided to create the Quran (or forge a book) then why would they not highlight the signs (both Mathematically and Scientific) that existed in the Book. Why the need to "hide it"?
To me it is obvious to me that you are a novice who lacks analytical skills and common sense. You have no idea of what the Quran truly teaches. Maybe in the future you will become much more skilled or perhaps you will great worse. It all depends on what you do.
Let me hear the discrepancies. It will make an interesting debate.
Peace,
Kevin
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Quote from A2Z on November 18, 2011, 054518 PM
You don't expect somebody like me to accept arguments from Quran while at the same time I'm going against it because I think it is not from GOD. The first things you need to do is to prove to me that Quran is really from GOD because I'm still believe in GOD. The reason I'm saying this is that I observed few imperfections and discrepancies in Quran teaching. The GOD I'm believing in is PERFECT and HIS 'instructions' are very CLEAR.Who or how is going to prove that a revelation comes from God? By witnesses, by some signed papers by the selfsame hand of God?
Nobody is going to prove that for the Qur'an or for anything, nor should anybody prove that.
If you fancy it has contradictions in it, fine, enjoy them. Other people do not findo contradictions. Suit yourself.
Salaam
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First of all, who told you that people of the book are limited to jews and christians?
If you ask me, considering the word PEOPLE OF THE BOOK, I would say it includes muslims as well.
Please read below quote.
Please
The author of Quran did realized this stereotype attitude among the people of the book.
2120 And the Jews will not be pleased with you, nor the Christians until you follow their religion. Say Surely Allah's guidance, that is the (true) guidance. And if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, you shall have no guardian from Allah, nor any helper.
2135 And they say Be Jews or Christians, you will be on the right course. Say Nay! (we follow) the religion of Ibrahim, the Hanif, and he was not one of the polytheists.
What if I say that I'm following Abraham's religion? Abraham's religion do not have any book. Simply follow the 'fitrah'.
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Secondly, the day of judgement day... well, if one who believes in God, but believes that God created for you no purpose, that this life is the only life and there is nothing after death, than of course you do not believe in the judgement day. But in the other hand, if you are a person who believes in God, and think its only logical that God has bigger plans for you, that this life is not all and that there must be something after death, that you feel you just must meet God and talk to him afterwards - than sure you believe in the judgement day. I tend to agree most with the later.
Peace
Please read below quote from this post.
I agree with you on this statement but that's maybe due to I was raised in a family and society that believe in God. Also maybe because I'm not rich and have all that I wanted. These are the strong factors that make me want to believe that there is The Almighty out there watching and protecting me against any harm and injustice.
Things might be different if I don't experienced living in God-believe family and society and not in the current state.
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Let me hear the discrepancies. It will make an interesting debate.
Refer below quote from this post.
Please also study below verses carefully.
379 It is not meet for a mortal that Allah should give him the Book and the wisdom and prophethood, then he should say to men Be my servants rather than Allah's; but rather (he would say) Be worshippers of the Lord because of your teaching the Book and your reading (it yourselves).
3910 Say O my servants who believe! be careful of (your duty to) your Lord; for those who do good in this world is good, and Allah's earth is spacious; only the patient will be paid back their reward in full without measure.
3953 Say O my servants! who have acted extravagantly against their own souls, do not despair of the mercy of Allah; surely Allah forgives the faults altogether; surely He is the Forgiving the Merciful.
If I study these verses with the simple language rules, verses 3910 and 3953 are contradicting verse 379 and humanity value. The meaning of 'servant' used in these verses can be physical or mental slavery or both. The good teaching is in verse 379 whereby prophet was forbidden to use his status to enslave other human being. Unfortunately, this good teaching being tainted by the present of verses 3910 and 3953 which proves that the 'all human being are equal' idea is not something to be greatly emphasize in Quran teaching.
482 Do they not then meditate on the Quran? And if it were from any other than Allah, they would have found in it many a discrepancy.
Yes, there are not many discrepancies but there are few or at least one since Quran is not from GOD.
And, you may want to solve the missing names of the Sacred or Forbidden Months in other post.
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Sura 379
379 It is not for a human that God would give him the book, the authority, and the prophethood, then he would say to the people "Be servants to me rather than to God!", rather "Be devotees to what you have been taught of the book, and to what you studied."
The use of the word "Servant" here is used in the RELIGIOUS SENSE. For example would today's butler worship his master or rather serve him like preparing food, washing and ironing his clothes etc.
3910 Say, "O servants who acknowledged, be aware of your Lord." For those who worked righteousness in this world will be a good reward, and God's (God is the "Lord" ) earth is spacious. Those who steadfastly persevere will receive their recompense fully, without reckoning.
The servants here again is used in the religious sense. The phrase "be aware of your Lord" and other parts of the verse should be indicative that servants here means in the RELIGIOUS SENSE.
3953 Say, "O My servants who transgressed against themselves, do not despair of God's mercy. For God forgives all sins. He is the Forgiver, the Compassionate."
Again this verse here uses servants in the RELIGIOUS SENSE to mean devotees or worshipers of the One God. There are no discrepancies in these verses.
Regarding the Sacred months I already posted a reply to that.
For the above examples it is quite clear to me that you can't comprehend the Quran properly. You are terrible when it comes to finding the proper context of verses in the Quran. Do you have any more 'discrepancies' because these are too trivial. Let me hear something more difficult.
Peace,
Kevin
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Who or how is going to prove that a revelation comes from God? By witnesses, by some signed papers by the selfsame hand of God?
Nobody is going to prove that for the Qur'an or for anything, nor should anybody prove that.
If you fancy it has contradictions in it, fine, enjoy them. Other people do not findo contradictions. Suit yourself.
Salaam
Responding to your first and second paragraphs, please refer below quote which I made earlier in this post.
...... If GOD really want me to go back to Quran He will send someone to or He Himself will defend the Quran against my arguments.
No comment from me on your last paragraph.
P/s You must be known by many here since you were awarded Advanced Truth Seeker title and have same believe with many the members. Can you at least provide me a Quran in English translation which agreed by majority of the members as valid? I'm facing difficulty with Quran because few of the words it used keep on changing when dealing with different individuals. Even the one published in this site also not good enough according to some.
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3953 Say, "O My servants who transgressed against themselves, do not despair of God's mercy. For God forgives all sins. He is the Forgiver, the Compassionate."
Grammatically, 'My Servants' in verse 3953 are servants to the person who being asked to say 'O My servants who transgressed against themselves, do not despair of God's mercy. For God forgives all sins. He is the Forgiver, the Compassionate.' If Prophet Muhammad made to say this, then 'My Servants' mean servants of Prophet Muhammad.
In term of human to human relationship, is it appropriate for a butler to be called servant? Addressing other person as servant is like you show no respect to him or her. This is one of the reasons why I go against these verses as it show no respect to human being. Good teaching should nurture respect among GOD's creations.
As for the Sacred or Forbidden Months, you are yet to provide me the names.
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Grammatically, 'My Servants' in verse 3953 are servants to the person who being asked to say 'O My servants who transgressed against themselves, do not despair of God's mercy. For God forgives all sins. He is the Forgiver, the Compassionate.' If Prophet Muhammad made to say this, then 'My Servants' mean servants of Prophet Muhammad.
In term of human to human relationship, is it appropriate for a butler to be called servant? Addressing other person as servant is like you show no respect to him or her. This is one of the reasons why I go against these verses as it show no respect to human being. Good teaching should nurture respect among GOD's creations.
As for the Sacred or Forbidden Months, you are yet to provide me the names.
Wrong. If God had told me to tell a group of people " I am God the Lord of the Worlds. Worship me and me alone" am I telling the people that I am God or am I telling the people that God says " I am God the Lord of the Worlds. Worship me and me alone". How is it that your comprehension skills are so poor???
Peace,
Kevin