The name of the last prophet?
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I made some revisions and added a few paragraphs.
Here is the revised version
http//19.org/749/muhammed/
Salaam Edip,
I've read the article. I have three questions if you don't mind answering them.
- Can you please post "MohammEd" in arabic with tasjkeel
- Why do you believe it's MohammEd and not MohammUd or MohammId?
- this question is a little bit of topic but I was just curious. You qouted this verse
616 When Jesus, son of Mary, said, ?O children of Israel, I am God?s messenger to you, authenticating what is present with me of the Torah and bringing good news of a messenger to come after me whose attribute will be ?the most praising.?? But when he showed them the clear proofs, they said, ?This is clearly magic.?
Can you explain to me the blue part. I don't understand why you translated "ismuhu" in that way.
Thank you for your time and may Allah increase us in knowledge.
Bender -
Peace,
616 When Jesus, son of Mary, said, ?O children of Israel, I am God?s messenger to you, authenticating what is present with me of the Torah and bringing good news of a messenger to come after me whose attribute will be ?the most praising.?? But when he showed them the clear proofs, they said, ?This is clearly magic.?
Can you explain to me the blue part. I don't understand why you translated "ismuhu" in that way.
Yes and be consistent explain in context ?whose attribute will be? ?
2436 in homes authorized The God that be raised and be mentioned in it His name Glorify to Him in it in the morning and the evenings
2114 The God that remembers in it His name
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Salaam Edip,
I've read the article. I have three questions if you don't mind answering them.- Can you please post "MohammEd" in arabic with tasjkeel
Alaikum salam, Bender. I do not have time for this, unfortunately.
- Why do you believe it's MohammEd and not MohammUd or MohammId?
The first and last one reflects the sound of its grammatical structure.
- this question is a little bit of topic but I was just curious. You qouted this verse
616 When Jesus, son of Mary, said, ?O children of Israel, I am God?s messenger to you, authenticating what is present with me of the Torah and bringing good news of a messenger to come after me whose attribute will be ?the most praising.?? But when he showed them the clear proofs, they said, ?This is clearly magic.?
Can you explain to me the blue part. I don't understand why you translated "ismuhu" in that way.
ISM in Arabic simply mean Attribute, and its plural is ASMa. God has all the "beautiful attributes" (ASMa ul-Husna).
Thank you for your time and may Allah increase us in knowledge.
BenderInshallah. Peace.
Edip -
ISM in Arabic simply mean Attribute.
^^^ giveup
Like a zebra Edip runs away!
Yes and be consistent explain in context ?whose attribute will be? ?
2436 in homes authorized The God that be raised and be mentioned in it His name Glorify to Him in it in the morning and the evenings
2114 The God that remembers in it His name
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Noon,
Arrogance together with ignorance is not a good combination; they are corrossive and occasionally explosive sun
The English word NAME is not the same as the Arabic ISM. In English, you can use any meaningless sound to label a being, but in Arabic as well as Hebrew names were made of adjectives, descriptions, or attributes. God does not not have names in that sense, since all divine ASMA (plural of ISM) are meaningful ATTRIBUTES or DESCRIPTIONS, including the word ALLAH, which is the contraction of AL-ELAH. That is the reason why we can traslate all divine attributes. That is why, God has no Arabic or Hebrew or English name.
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Noon,
Arrogance together with ignorance is not a good combination; they are corrossive and occasionally explosive sun
The English word NAME is not the same as the Arabic ISM. In English, you can use any meaningless sound to label a being, but in Arabic as well as Hebrew names were made of adjectives, descriptions, or attributes. God does not not have names in that sense, since all divine ASMA (plural of ISM) are meaningful ATTRIBUTES or DESCRIPTIONS, including the word ALLAH, which is the contraction of AL-ELAH. That is the reason why we can traslate all divine attributes. That is why, God has no Arabic or Hebrew or English name.
Edip, anyone that posts a simple question to you comes across to you as arrogant/ignorant.
This is not about meaning of names rather how to properly say in Arabic "His name is John"?
You translated ?whose attribute will be? makes no sense in any language.
685 and Zakariyy and Yay and Isa and Elias each from the righteous
197 O Zakariyy indeed We give you good news in a boy his name Yay
1912 O Yay hold the book
2190 so We responded to him and We gave to him YayTherefore, in any language including Arabic his name Yay and Yay is his name.
Peace!
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Therefore, in any language including Arabic his name Yay and Yay is his name.
Quote from Edip Yuksel on Yesterday at 075206 PM
ISM in Arabic simply mean Attribute.Root
Words from this Root in the Grand Qur'aan
a) Total occurrences 381
b) No of constructions 33
The basic perception infolded in the Root is of eminence, elevation, ascension, transcendence, and loftiness of a thing spread and overshadowing another thing. This causes the thing to become conspicuous and prominent and renders its existence conveniently recognizable enabling acknowledgment by everyone. The elevated, fully spread and prominent Sky roofing the entire Earth is . The eminence and other visual peculiarities of the Sky reflect the perception infolded in the Root.
This Root is the source of the word http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/00001.%20Ism%20Name/16.gif, which means name, or code of a thing or being/person. The name of a thing or person/being yields the same effect, which is the basic perception, infolded in the Root. The name gives the basic cognition of existence and presence of a thing and person. Hence, name is the introduction for apparent recognition of a thing and person. Cognition of the code/name of a thing or person is the elementary/first step in gaining knowledge about the thing or person. Name of a thing or person gives it or him a vivid distinction from all other things and persons/makes it or him distinguished/identified/definite/isolated/prominent/popularized and grants an ability to others to identify and describe/remember/recall/mention it or him. The name/code serves as a basis/foundation for others to enquire and study about it to gain knowledge.Dictionary of Roots
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Alaikum salam, Bender. I do not have time for this, unfortunately.
The first and last one reflects the sound of its grammatical structure.
- this question is a little bit of topic but I was just curious. You qouted this verse
ISM in Arabic simply mean Attribute, and its plural is ASMa. God has all the "beautiful attributes" (ASMa ul-Husna).
Inshallah. Peace.
EdipSalaam Edip,
Ok thank you for your answers and your time.
Just want to add, that I am always open to ?new? understandings but I believe that this is not only a new understanding but also a change in a word and that doesn?t feel good.
I am afraid that today it?s a change in tasjkeel but maybe tomorrow someone changes a whole letter or a whole word or adds a word or deletes a word. Yes I know that maybe in earlier Qurans the tasjkeel was absent and that we have now a couple of different Qurans, but I believe that we have to do it with what we have now and changing things in what we have given just doesn?t feel good.
But in the end even with all the changings, adding?s and deleting?s from people, it will never change The Thikr, Alhamdulillah.On your understanding of the word ?ism? I also don?t agree. There are a lot of examples were this understanding doesn?t hold in my opinion. Just take a look for example at 336. How can the wife of Imraan give an attribute to her child, and what exactly is the attribuut meryem that she gave to her child?
Salaam and may Allah increase us in our knowledge,
Bender -
Peace
NDPThis is not about meaning of names rather how to properly say in Arabic "His name is John"?
You translated ?whose attribute will be? makes no sense in any language.
685 and Zakariyy and Yay and Isa and Elias each from the righteous
197 O Zakariyy indeed We give you good news in a boy his name Yay
1912 O Yay hold the book
2190 so We responded to him and We gave to him YayTherefore, in any language including Arabic his name Yay and Yay is his name.
Sorry you?re deeply wrong?.Edip is right?.It just need to grasp the meaning of the 1965 ?.When you call God Al-Rahman does that mean you using a meaningless word or you have to understand it first what it means in order be able to call Him by that name/word ? Al-Rahman is an attribution.
1965-- The Lord of the heavens and the earth, and everything between them; you shall worship Him and steadfastly persevere in worshiping Him. Do you know of anyone who equals Him?
Asana
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Peace
NDPSorry you?re deeply wrong?.Edip is right?.It just need to grasp the meaning of the 1965 ?.When you call God Al-Rahman does that mean you using a meaningless word or you have to understand it first what it means in order be able to call Him by that name/word ? Al-Rahman is an attribution.
1965-- The Lord of the heavens and the earth, and everything between them; you shall worship Him and steadfastly persevere in worshiping Him. Do you know of anyone who equals Him?
Asana
Sorry, but do you even know what does attribution mean?
What is the term for "attribution" in Arabic?
From where the word denoting "attribution" is drawn?
Personal Names only identify a Person, not his traits/attributes. Person comes the first, then his trait and that is Adjetival Phrase in Arabic, unlike English where trait comes first and then the person portrayed.
Edip sometimes adopts childish attitude only when a specific Name is under discussion, otherwise, he remains sane for other words of Arabic.
How would I know the attribute Edip Yuksel denotes? Do I have any substance to find that or should I make myself stupid to perceive him from his avator?
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Peace
MazharHere we go again!!...As usual soon you?ve given a verse you can?t refute it resorted to answering the question with irrational questions.
Al-Rahman is not just a name/ ism?There is a big concept behind it?If one can?t grasp the concept/meaning of it then hasn?t known who God is and why calling him Al-Rahman.
You think since you know Arabic grammar you?re intelligent enough to understand the Quran too....You?re so warped up into the grammar that forgotten what the message is and constantly criticise with your grammatical knowledge.
Asana
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Peace Asana,
Sorry you?re deeply wrong?.Edip is right?.
No Edip is clearly wrong and we are discussing the meaning for the word
197 O Zakariyy indeed We give you good news in a boy his name Yay
1912 O YayIs his name Yay or not?
Is Zakariyy a name or not?This is basic language kids learn everywhere at age 2 ...
http//users.elite.net/runner/jennifers/myname.htm
Abenaki (Maine USA, Canada) ...nia.
Acateco (San Miguel Acatan Guatemala) Hain...
Achuar (Ecuador) Wiyait jai...
Adyghe (Middle East) Sa...
Afrikaans (southern Africa) My naam is...
Ainu (Japan) Kurehe anakne...ne.Akha (China, Southeast Asia) ...leh ku-eu meh.
Akha (Thailand) ...leh co uh ma.
Aklanon (Philippines) Ro ngaean ko si...
Albanian (Albania, Yugoslavia) Un? quhem...
Albanian (Albania, Yugoslavia) Mua m? quajn?...
Altai (Russia) Meni? ad?m...
Altai (Russia) Meni? ?b?k?m...
Amharic (Ethiopia, Israel, Egypt) Sime...no.
Amharic (Ethiopia, Israel, Egypt) Simae...now.
Amis (Taiwan) Ci...hananay kako.Apache (Arizona USA) ...gonszee.
Arabic (Middle East, Northern Africa) 'Ismi...
Aragonese (Aragon Spain) Me clamo...
Aragonese (Eastern Aragon Spain) Me digo...
Arapaho (Oklahoma USA) Neneeninoo...
Arapaho (Oklahoma USA) Nenee'eesi'inoo
Armenian (Armenia) Anun's...e.
Armenian (Armenia) Im anunn...e.
Asante (Ghana) Yefr? me...
Asante (Ghana) Me d? de...
Asante (Ghana) Mede...
Assyrian (Assyria) Shimmee...eeleh.
Assyrian (Assyria) Shem...ithau.
Asturian (Spain) Ll?mome...
Asturian (Spain) El mio nome ye...
Atayal (Taiwan) ...lalu' mu.
Atayal (Taiwan) ...heya ga lalu' mu'.
Aymar? (Bolivia, Peru, Chile) Sutixax ...wa.
Aymar? (Bolivia, Peru, Chile) Sutijara ...wa.
Aymar? (Bolivia, Peru, Chile) Nayan sutijaj...
Aymar? (Bolivia, Peru, Chile) ...sat?wa.
Azerbaijani (Azerbaijan, Iran) M?n?m ad?m... -
Hebrew and Arabic names were all attributes with descriptive meanings. Ignorance of this simple fact, combined with lack of critical thinking led many to mistranslate verse 616. Please read my reasoning below in the Endnote of the Quran a Reformist Translation
616 When Jesus, son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, I am God's messenger to you, authenticating what is present with me of the To-rah and bringing good news of a messenger to come after me whose name/attribute will be ?most praising.'" But when he showed them the clear proofs, they said, ?This is clearly magic.'*
061006 The word ahmad is an adjective meaning "most praising" or "even more praising". Traditional sources consider it a proper name for Muhammed. This contradicts historical facts. The name of the prophet that came after Jesus was Muhammed, which is used in the Quran four times. Centuries after the departure of Muhammed, Muhammed-worshipers fabricated 99 names, including Ahmad, for Muhammed, in order to compete with the attributes of God. They could not accept one God having so many beautiful attributes, with their second god having only one attribute, Muhammed. They included many divine attributes, such as, "The First, The Last, The Judge.." in their list for Muhammed. Furthermore, we do not find the word Ahmad in the Bible. Rather we see the translation of the Greek adjective, "paracletos".
"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter/Counselor (paracletus), that he may abide with you for ever" (John 1416). Also, see John 1426; 1526 167.
Jesus predicted the coming of another prophet. The one whose coming was fore-told by Jesus is mentioned as "Paracletos" or "Periclytos" in Greek manuscripts. Paracletos means advocate, comforter, or counselor. Periclytos, on the other hand, means "admirable one" (in Arabic ahmad). The "spirit" here, does not mean other than human. There are cases where the word "spirit" is used for humans (2 Thessa-lonians 22; 1 John 41-3).
If indeed Jesus had prophesied the proper name of the prophet after him, this proph-ecy would have gotten the attention of almost every one of his supporters. Fur-thermore, we would see many people among his supporters and later Christians giving the name Ahmad to their sons, hoping that their sons would fulfill the prophecy. But, we do not even see a single Christian named Ahmad. Therefore, the Aramaic or Hebrew equivalent of this word did not become a name. However, the name Muhammed sharing the same root and similar meaning with the word ahmad is instructive.
Bible-thumpers assert that there are more than two thousand prophecies foretelling the coming of the Messiah in the Old Testament. Evidently, this is a preposterous claim. But, an impartial reader will find several clear prophecies. Then, the reader may ask, "What is wrong with Jews? Why don't they see those plain prophecies in their book?"
Obviously, this problem is not peculiar to Jews. Whenever a new messenger comes, the bigoted religious people reject them in the name of previous messengers. For instance, Egyptians rejected Moses by claiming that Joseph was the last messenger (4028-3. Jews rejected (J)esu(s) when he started his mission. Those who started worshiping Muhammed too claimed Muhammed to be the last mes-senger, in contradiction to the Quran (381). Christians were and are not different.
The Old Testament in Deuteronomy 1818 prophesies the coming of Muhammed, since he was more like Moses and came from among the Arabs, the brethren of the Children of Israel.
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." (Deuteronomy 181.
Christians try hard to use 1818 as a prophecy about Jesus, but their fictional "son of God" who "died for the sins of the world" is not like Moses; neither is his miraculous birth, his marital status, nor his political power. However when we compare, we see that Muhammed is much more like Moses than Jesus was. Besides, the Biblical prophecy does not say "among themselves" or "among Children of Israel," but "among their brethren." The word brethren is directly used by the Old Testament to describe the relationship between the family of Isaac and the family of Ishmael (See Genesis 1612; 251.
The New Testament too contains some clues regarding the coming prophet, other than the Messiah. John 119-25 lists the expected three persons Christ, Elijah, and That Prophet. These verses, if they are not a fabrication of John, provide us with clues that Jewish people were expecting a "prophet" besides Christ, a prophet that had been prophesied in Deuteronomy 1818. It is not a surprise that some Christian scholars are using their famous for-mula, in order to hide this obvious Biblical fact "Christ + Elijah + That Prophet = Jesus." This is Trinity in Trinity or Pan-dora's Trinity.
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Quote from Mazhar on December 15, 2011, 125513 AM
The Text comprises of words which are knit together. It is not hit and trial exercise. Words have predetermined meanings and perception. It is not game of placing X for the unknown. These are gimmicks when people are confronted with specific realities. The question was from which lexicon did you take the meaning "Support" for your translation?Mazhar, I am done with you. It is up to you to use your God-given mind to understand the Quran or follow the dogmas you inherited from your parents, environment or the bandwagon.
Peace,
EdipOkay, you have admitted that you have no support from the Lexicons. You have innovated new meaning only to satisfy yourself to have a distorted understanding of the original Arabic text, which disturbs you. Saying that such and such words means this, you have to bring the evidence from the past about its use as such you are now proposing, otherwise, it is conjecture and bewilderment of thoughts.
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Peace
MazharHere we go again!!...As usual soon you?ve given a verse you can?t refute it resorted to answering the question with irrational questions.
Al-Rahman is not just a name/ ism?There is a big concept behind it?If one can?t grasp the concept/meaning of it then hasn?t known who God is and why calling him Al-Rahman.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/00003.%20Ar%20Rehman/2.gif
Ar'Reh'maan Personal Name of Allah- Rules of Arabic language signify it only as Personal Name.
The Nouns in Arabic, whether Proper Nouns or Common Nouns, in their original/default state, as a rule are always "Nominative" or i.e. the last consonant has a vowel sign as is here .
The name is the code, which gives the basic cognition of existence and presence of a thing and person. Hence, name is the introduction for apparent/initial recognition of a thing and person. Cognition of the code/name of a thing or person is the elementary/first step in gaining knowledge about the thing or person. Name of a thing or person gives it or him a vivid distinction from all other things and persons and makes it or him distinguished/identified/definite/isolated and grants ability to others to identify and describe/ remember/recall and/or mention-refer it or him to others. The name/code serves as a basis/foundation for others to enquire and study about it to gain further knowledge.
Attributive names/adjectival descriptions give further information, insight and knowledge about the thing or person introduced by a Personal Name. These are complimentary in nature and help to acquaint others about the inner-self of the named object or person/being. Every person and thing/object that exists has two aspects, the one evidently apparent notwithstanding whether or not it is in the range of focus of someone, and the other is the inner-self, hidden, infolded, not apparent but invisibly embedded therein .
The evidently apparent is the reflection of the fact of existence, and its cognition and reference is by the Name. The pursuit-journey of knowledge is from cognition of existence/Name towards knowing and perceiving the inner-self of that which exists and its relationships and equations with all that exists. We cannot have the absolute knowledge of anything and person/being unless we know its/his inner-self , after its cognition, i.e. introductory knowledge of its Name.
Once we know the inner-self, all that is secreted, hidden and its relationships with everything else, we know that thing and Person in near absolute sense. Thereupon, it or He becomes more visible and apparent than the shining sun in a bright and clear day, even without being physically in visual sight, the aspect of Him. Therefore, we know Him/him with such conviction, which is the absolute-exalted end of the knowledge. This type of knowledge, with reference to personalities, can be attained only about two, Ar'Reh'maan, the Exalted and Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam-The Mercy Personified, since the of both is quite extensively visible to us all around and through the courtesy of Grand Qur'aan.
Personal Names that introduce and grant cognition of an existing personality, unlike attributive/adjectival names/descriptions, never have duality and plurality. Neither there is any process/ phenomenon/rule in the Arabic language for ?feminization? or masculinization of proper nouns/names.
A peculiar and distinguishing feature of Arabic language is that, unlike other languages say English and Urdu in which the adjective comes first-prioritized than the described one, the /the one who is being described/portrayed is always mentioned first followed by the /Adjective. Arabic, the language of our Guide Lord Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam, is a language of truth and fact. /the one being described/portrayed is mentioned first since he is First in Existence and it is always the who has either inherently and intrinsically the mentioned /adjective, quality, trait, or has acquired/adopted it. Hence, Proper Noun/Personal Name NEVER find a place at a secondary place as an adjective in the Adjectival Phrases.
-Ar'Reh'maan is the Personal Name of Allah. It is unique, exclusive, and unprecedented ; this has no parallel, no dual, no plural, no feminine equivalent. In Grand Qur'aan it is never placed as second noun of Adjectival Phrase, and nor one will find it in any Arabic literature mentioned as second noun of Adjectival Phrase.
Personal Names are also not the first noun of possessive construction/genitive phrases . They are always second noun in possessive phrases. One will never find the Personal Name of Allah as first noun of possessive construction/genitive phrases.
The fundamental and simple features and principles of Arabic language vividly reflect that http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/00003.%20Ar%20Rehman/2.gif has no other connotation except as Proper Name. Yet there has been a debate, spreading over thousands of pages, over this Peculiar Name of Allah. We may, without indulging into merits of controversy, request the Grand Qur'aan to let us know whether this is the Personal Name of Allah or it could be stretched and considered as an Adjectival Name attributing a qualitative trait.
The Grand Qur'aan unambiguously explains to us, in various references and contexts that this is but the Unique and Exclusively the Personal Name of Allah, the Exalted, and the Sustainer Lord of all that exists.
Read the ellaborative updates given by the Qur'aan on this issue
Ar'Reh'maan Personal Name of Allah