Is a prophet just a normal person/human being or is he a 'super-human being' ?
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We are not concerned about each and every human being nor we know with certainity whether or not the message reached to him. We should remember that even the Last Messenger is on record to have said that he is the Revivalist/Warner/Admonisher for the one to whom Qur'aan has reached.
In the administration of human system of justice a famous principle is "Ignorantia juris non excusat or Ignorantia legis neminem excusat . But the built in assumption in this principle is that the ruling/controlling authority had duly and reasonably informed and warned the people through wide publicity.
But the Supreme Sovereign of the Universes has a flawless system of justice based on absolute mercy. In that system none deserves and is liable to punishment until and unless he is informed and warned and made to know in simple and distinct/vivid words regarding what should he abstain from doing. Allah, the Supreme Judge considers the ignorance and unawareness as a strong defense plea for exoneration and takes upon Himself the responsibility to awaken people from their slumber, ignorance, neglectfulness and warn the humanity, and make them explicitly know, what they are required to abstain from so that the accused people could not take the plea in their self defense that they were not aware or were not made to understand the prohibitions.
The justice par excellence demands that the Supreme Sovereign/The Authority establishes against an accused, beyond a shadow of doubt, that he committed the crime intentionally and willfully despite knowing and being fully aware of the prohibitions and prescribed punishment/consequence.
Superb System of Justice
Brother you can babble about this now till infinity but it is quite clear to me that you don't even know what are the basics that get us into paradise. And what is this nonsense about " We are not concerned about each and every human being nor we know with certainity whether or not the message reached to him. We should remember that even the Last Messenger is on record to have said that he is the Revivalist/Warner/Admonisher for the one to whom Qur'aan has reached "
A pack of nonsense. Do you even know what the Quran is??? The Quran is a REMINDER to the people of earth.
Question How can you remind people of what they do not know???? Or do they know I wonder?
So what does this mean??? It means that basically everyone has the knowledge of an Almighty God even the atheists'
7172 When your Lord took from the children of Adam from their backs, their progeny; and He made them witness over themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, we bear witness." Thus you cannot say on the day of Resurrection that you were unaware of this.
How do you think that Abraham became a monotheist in the first place??! Do you think that God suddenly decided to reveal himself to him and say "Behold Abraham I am God" or did Abraham through wisdom and using logic (and the knowledge which each and everyone of us has) was able to determine that God existed!!!
674 Abraham said to his father, Azar "Will you take idols as gods? I see you and your people clearly misguided."
675 Thus We showed Abraham the kingdom of heavens and earth, so that he will be of those who have certainty.
676 When the night covered him, he saw a planet, and he said, "This is my Lord." But when it disappeared he said, "I do not like those that disappear."
677 So when he saw the moon rising, he said, "This is my Lord." But when it disappeared he said, "If my Lord will not guide me, then I will be amongst the wicked people!"
678 So when he saw the sun rising, he said, "This is my Lord, this is bigger." But when it disappeared he said, "My people, I am innocent of what you have set up."
679 "I shall turn my face to the One who created the heavens and the earth, as a monotheist, and I am not of those who set up partners."Abraham had no book. No scripture. Yet he found the right path. That we should not associate anything with God and that we should sincerely commit our system to him. God didn't randomly choose Abraham and guided him but rather Abraham diligently sort the truth and God helped him. THAT IS HOW GUIDANCE WORKS. You must be a sincere seeker before you are able to be guided.
This what people lack today. Sincerity. If you do not have sincerity you will never be guided and you will never understand any of the teachings of the Quran. The Quran is a guarded book. None will be able to understand it except those who are sincere.
5675 I do swear by the positions of the stars. (We ought to take the following seriously)
5676 This is an oath, if you only knew, that is great.
5677 It is an honorable Quran.
5678 In a protected record. (The Quran is a guarded book)
5679 None can grasp it except those pure.( Metaphor meaning sincere )
5680 A revelation from the Lord of the worlds.So again when you say that "We are not concerned about each and every human being nor we know with certainity whether or not the message reached to him. " That is just plain ignorance on your part since you do not even know what are the basics of salvation. How long have you been reading the Quran brother. What book did Hud bring or Saleh? What was there message that they brought to there people??? Did they not bring the basics.....
- Worship God and God alone
2)Do not associate partners with him - Do righteous deeds.
Peace,
Kevin
- Worship God and God alone
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When hearts are deliberately made blind, simple and plain words seem blurred to eyes.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/033.%20Al%20Ahzaab/Temp%2001%2033.40a.gif
Muhammad has not been the father of single one from amongst your men, and he in fact is the Final Messenger of Allah and The Finalizer of the series of Distinct, Elevated and Chosen Ones of Allah
3340Why do you hide God's signs while you know the truth??? Do you see what I was talking about in the last post when I said people lack sincerity. You know full well that the Quran never said anything about Muhammad being the final messenger yet in your arrogance you chose to twist the scripture to support a baseless claim. The Quran never said anything about Muhammad being the final messenger. Messenger and prophet are not the same.
381 God took a covenant from the prophets "For what I have given you of the book and wisdom, then a messenger will come to you authenticating what is with you. You will acknowledge him and support him." He said, "Do you testify, and agree to this burden?" they said, "We testify." He said, "Then bear witness, and I am with you bearing witness."
337 When We took from the prophets their covenant. From you, and from Noah, and Abraham, and Moses, and Jesus the son of Mary; We took from them a strong covenant.
So basically Muhammad himself took the same covenant. Would you deny this???? Deny it and you will condemn yourself. God does not love those who deliberately hide the truth. You will dig a pit for yourself which you will later regret. Fear God , and do not hide the truth while you know it. This is a gross sin in God's eye.
It is quite clear to any right thinking person that Messenger and Prophet are two completely different persona. Not all messengers are prophets, but all prophets are messengers is what one can interpret from the above verses.
Peace,
Kevin
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Prophets are just human beings but guided by God and knows the hidden truths,
Learned men and inventors also can be included in this group of people. People and their surrounding decide their knowledge, so GOD creates circumstances/surroundings for people to learn, this is the way HE guides. So prophets are the maximum guided and they have responsibility to lead people away from darkness and misery. -
I just read hurufs post on prophets being honored and one.
The biblical line of prophets seems to be following Abraham. That is why we call it "The religion of Abraham", which Islam is a final and perfected expression of. Jesus was also a word of God, states the Quran. From the bible, I can see that he is a gnostic. However moses goes up on a mountain to "see" God, and that must mean that he doesnt really have knowledge of God. The same with David, he says "God does not answer him". etc. So the gnostics of the biblical prophets, arent that many.
While Abraham and Mohammed, (Mohammed ofcourse knew God, since he was a messenger of God), are said to be of exemplary conduct, Moses is taught by Khidr, who DO have knowledge of God. The rod of Solomon is eaten by a worm. And so forth )The Quran and Mohammed, and Gabriel, indeed represent the highest of excellence, and they point back to Abraham, who started this religion, and so he must be too.
Peace.
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Prophets are just human beings but guided by God and knows the hidden truths,
Learned men and inventors also can be included in this group of people. People and their surrounding decide their knowledge, so GOD creates circumstances/surroundings for people to learn, this is the way HE guides. So prophets are the maximum guided and they have responsibility to lead people away from darkness and misery.bravo
thanks for your explanation brother
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Why do you hide God's signs while you know the truth??? Do you see what I was talking about in the last post when I said people lack sincerity. You know full well that the Quran never said anything about Muhammad being the final messenger yet in your arrogance you chose to twist the scripture to support a baseless claim. The Quran never said anything about Muhammad being the final messenger. Messenger and prophet are not the same.
Can you quote for us the relationship with each other of last five words in the sentence?
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Can you quote for us the relationship with each other of last five words in the sentence?
So strange. I'm suddenly being reminded of what my favorite Maths teacher us to say. Common Sense is not common.
337 When We took from the prophets their covenant. From you, and from Noah, and Abraham, and Moses, and Jesus the son of Mary; We took from them a strong covenant.
The first thing you need to recognize is that prophet Muhammad took a covenant with the rest of the prophets. The Question that any curious person who studies the Quran will ask is what covenant did he and the other prophets took???? If we search the Quran and examine a few Sura's back we again see the same scenario.
Notice that a few Sura's back.....
381 God took a covenant from the prophets "For what I have given you of the book and wisdom, then a messenger will come to you authenticating what is with you. You will acknowledge him and support him." He said, "Do you testify, and agree to this burden?" they said, "We testify." He said, "Then bear witness, and I am with you bearing witness."
So it should be quite clear that Muhammad took the same covenant since Muhammad himself was a prophet!
Again God said that he took a covenant with the prophets. If you do not believe that Muhammad did not take the same covenant then how can you believe that he was a prophet???Didn't the verse say " God took a covenant from the prophets ". The same man you are idolizing is the same man you are rejecting ever was a prophet. So strange. Will you deny this clear proof???
Also if you further examine the verse any right thinking person can easily imply that there is a clear difference between a messenger and a prophet. If this was not the case why would God say....
God took a covenant from the prophets "For what I have given you of the book and wisdom, then a messenger will come to you authenticating what is with you.
If Muhammad was the last of all the prophet's and God said that a messenger would come after him wouldn't this imply brother that there is a clear difference between a messenger and a prophet???? As I said before all prophets are messengers, but not every messenger is a prophet. If you exam the Quran more carefully you will find out that the difference between a messenger and a prophet is that a prophet brings scripture(an en-lighting book) whilst a messenger who isn't a prophet brings a message (from which he has authorization from God to do so) but no scripture. That is the difference between a messenger and a prophet.
I believe that this link will explain more http//www.quran-islam.org/main_topics/prophet_and_messenger_(P1161).html
Please note that I do not agree everything that is on this site. However in this topic I agree 100% with what they say.
Peace,
Kevin
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A requested for relational analysis on the post which was with reference to this Ayah
Quote from Mazhar on Today at 053327 AM
When hearts are deliberately made blind, simple and plain words seem blurred to eyes.Muhammad has not been the father of single one from amongst your men, and he in fact is the Final Messenger of Allah and The Finalizer of the series of Distinct, Elevated and Chosen Ones of Allah
3340 -
the difference between a messenger and a prophet is that a prophet brings scripture(an en-lighting book) whilst a messenger who isn't a prophet brings a message (from which he has authorization from God to do so) but no scripture.
You mean
Prophet = brings scripture ---defined as an enlightening book.
Messenger who is not a prophet= a message, clarified as from which he has authorization from God to do so. Further, he has no scripture--enlightening book.
So Message is not a book. Then what exactly is it? a sort of an appointment letter as these days is given to Ambassador designates for presentation as authorization to the other country, or just an oral declaration before people that he is a messenger sent/appointed by Allah.
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A requested for relational analysis on the post which was with reference to this Ayah
Brother Mazhar, You are lost. I tried very hard to explain to you that a Rasoul(messenger) is NOT the same as NABI (prophet). It is not the same. IF IT WAS THE SAME GOD WOULD HAVE NEVER USED DIFFERENT WORDS AND DIFFERENT CONTEXT!!!!! You are twisting the scripture for your own ego. Let go of your ego and give it up. You argument has been weighed , it has been measured and it has been found wanting. Vanity and Ego is a man's greatest enemy. You are digging a ditch for yourself which you will later regret. Do you wish to be guided or do you wish to worship your ego instead???
Peace,
Kevin
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You mean
Prophet = brings scripture ---defined as an enlightening book.
Messenger who is not a prophet= a message, clarified as from which he has authorization from God to do so. Further, he has no scripture--enlightening book.
So Message is not a book. Then what exactly is it? a sort of an appointment letter as these days is given to Ambassador designates for presentation as authorization to the other country, or just an oral declaration before people that he is a messenger sent/appointed by Allah.
No rather a message is not always a book. For example If I tell you that God said "Worship God and God alone and not associate beings with him and do righteous deeds " Isn't this a message and not a book. Do I need full compact scripture to bring a simple message like that????
Peace,
Kevin
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No rather a message is not always a book. For example If I tell you that God said "Worship God and God alone and not associate beings with him and do righteous deeds " Isn't this a message and not a book. Do I need full compact scripture to bring a simple message like that????
Peace,
Kevin
How would you introduce yourself to me before conveying the message?
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There is no ego sort of thing on my part. It seems other way round, rather. You stated by quoting this post containing an Ayah, as hereinafter quoted.
When hearts are deliberately made blind, simple and plain words seem blurred to eyes.
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/033.%20Al%20Ahzaab/Temp%2001%2033.40a.gif
Muhammad has not been the father of single one from amongst your men, and he in fact is the Final Messenger of Allah and The Finalizer of the series of Distinct, Elevated and Chosen Ones of Allah
3340You know full well that the Quran never said anything about Muhammad being the final messenger yet in your arrogance you chose to twist the scripture to support a baseless claim.
I requested you to give relational analysis of last five words of this Ayah which could suggest to me the authenticity or otherwise of your above statement. Should I expect a specific response?
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No rather a message is not always a book. For example If I tell you that God said "Worship God and God alone and not associate beings with him and do righteous deeds " Isn't this a message and not a book. Do I need full compact scripture to bring a simple message like that????
Peace,
Kevin
Now you are taking another stance that some Messengers can also have the book.
I am confused for lack of use of specific words.
Prophet = Scripture-the Book.
Messenger=Message of varying length-statement-orders but not book which could be presented to others as is the perception of a book.Please clarify.
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How would you introduce yourself to me before conveying the message?
As a believer and not a Messenger. A messenger of God (in the Quranic sense) is one who has been given a clear authority to convey a message. I have not been given such authority
There is no ego sort of thing on my part. It seems other way round, rather. You stated by quoting this post containing an Ayah, as hereinafter quoted.
I requested you to give relational analysis of last five words of this Ayah which could suggest to me the authenticity or otherwise of your above statement. Should I expect a specific response?
Twisting the scripture will get you nowhere brother. If you have nothing to hide why twist the scripture while you know that the Quran clearly said nothing about Muhammad being the final messenger. How is Nabi suddenly Rasoul brother??? Why do you hide God's signs???
Now you are taking another stance that some Messengers can also have the book.
I am confused for lack of use of specific words.
Prophet = Scripture-the Book.
Messenger=Message of varying length-statement-orders but not book which could be presented to others as is the perception of a book.Please clarify.
Only in your imagination brother. I'm not taking another stance. It is rather you who cannot grasp the simple concept which I've been trying to tell you. If I was given authority from God " Kevin go forth to the people of Asia and tell them that they should worship me and me alone and that they should not associate anything with me. Command them as well to do righteous deeds. For this is also pleasing in my sight."
If God told me that simple message does that mean that the message is a book???! Why do you not understand what I am saying. Not all messages which God gave to the messengers (not the ones who were prophets) are scripture!!!! Plain and simple!!! What scripture did Jonah bring , what scripture did Lot bring or Hud or Saleh!??? These are messengers of God and NOT PROPHETS OF GOD! Moses and Aaron (who were prophets and Messengers ) brought the Torah , a which is a book! David a prophet brought the Psalms , which is a Book! Muhammad brought the Quran which is a book!!! A very simple concept to grasp!
Ok let me further elaborate. What did Saleh (a messenger not a prophet) bring??? What sign did he bring??? Did he bring a book or a message and camel as a sign
773 To Thamud, We sent their brother Saleh, he said, "My people, serve God, you have no god besides Him; (The message) proof has come to you from your Lord. This is God's camel, in her you have a sign, (The Sign) so leave her to eat in God's land, and do not harm her, else a painful retribution will take you." ( a message and a camel as a sign)
Did he bring book (a written scripture!) No he did not! And that is the difference between a messenger (who is not a prophet) and a messenger (who is a prophet)!!! Prophets bring scripture and are messengers.
379 It is not for a human that God would give him the book, the authority, and the prophethood, then he would say to the people "Be servants to me rather than to God!", rather "Be devotees to what you have been taught of the book, and to what you studied."
689 Those to whom We have given the book, the law, and the prophethood, if they reject it, then We will entrust it to a people who will not reject it.
2927 We granted him Isaac and Jacob, and We made within his progeny the prophethood and the book. We gave him his reward in this world, and in the Hereafter he is among the righteous.
4516 We had given the Children of Israel the book and the judgment, and the prophethood, and We provided them with good provisions; and We preferred them over the worlds.
If you read stories of Lot , Jonah , Saleh and Hud , you find that none of these Messengers brought any book but rather a MESSAGE and none were ever called prophets but just messengers.
37133 And Lot was one of the messengers.
37139 And Jonah was one of the messengers.
777 They thus killed the camel and defied their Lord's command, and they said, "O Saleh, bring us what you promised us if you are of the messengers!"1150 To Aad was sent their brother Hud. He said, "My people, serve God, you have no god besides Him; you are simply conjecturing."............read on till verse 59....
1159 Such was the case of Aad. They disregarded the signs of their Lord, and they disobeyed His messengers, and they followed the lead of everyone powerful and stubborn.
Not every message is a book. How can interpret every message to be a book when a BOOK is something that is written like the Psalms or the Torah!!!! A book is something that you read or recite from. You are a classic example of a person who has ego problems. Why are you so stubborn??? Why do you hide God's signs while you know the truth. Let go of your ego brother or else you will not succeed.
Peace,
Kevin.
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Quote from Mazhar on Today at 012316 PM
There is no ego sort of thing on my part. It seems other way round, rather. You stated by quoting this post containing an Ayah, as hereinafter quoted.I requested you to give relational analysis of last five words of this Ayah which could suggest to me the authenticity or otherwise of your above statement. Should I expect a specific response?
Twisting the scripture will get you nowhere brother. If you have nothing to hide why twist the scripture while you know that the Quran clearly said nothing about Muhammad being the final messenger. How is Nabi suddenly Rasoul brother??? Why do you hide God's signs???
Why so evasive talk. Simply attend to five words and say about those as to how are they related to each other to know what they convey, acccording to your "untwisted" understanding.