Is a prophet just a normal person/human being or is he a 'super-human being' ?

mmkhan

Salaam,

4913

FM Translation
4913 O people, We created you from a male and female, and We made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Surely, the most honorable among you in the sight of God is the most righteous. God is Knowledgeable, Expert.

Sahih International
4913 O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.

Mohsin Khan
4913 O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most honourable of you with Allah is that who has At-Taqwa [i.e. one of the Muttaqun. Verily, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware.

Is Prophets and Messengers included in this aayat?

May Allah guide us all to His true path pr
mmKhan

Mazhar

Salam, mmkhan,

Unfortunately, all seem to have ignored a simple fact that does not necessarily signify superlative meaning when it is compared with others. It is restricted to relative-comparative meanings.

Indeed the relatively more honoured and notable amongst you people, in the judgment/in nearness of Allah, the Exalted is the one who is relatively more Righteous amongst you.

The competition is amongst human beings to win the nearness of Allah, the Exalted. So everyone will have relative nearness.

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/00021.%20Muttaqeen%20Waw%20Qaf%20Ya/0003.A%20Muttaqeen%20Waw%20Qaf%20Ya/48.gif Possessive Phrase Elative Noun (comparative and superlative) Definite; Masculine; singular; nominative + Possessive Pronoun Second Person; Plural; Masculine; Genitive state. (1)4913=1

-- / + - -
Dictionary of Words of Grand Qur'aan-Alphabettically arranged

Mazhar

The passage could be understood to mean that this battle divides believers for all time (those that spent before the victory and fought are greater than any EVER after)--or it could be understood to mean that among those present, the ones who strived hardest and with the most risk and hardship are offered a greater reward. I believe, especially in light of other passages, that the second case makes the most sense.
In your previous post, you posted "Any such person does not and will never equal/equate with any one from amongst you, the living people,", and this supports the second case as well.

ALLAH knows best.

Salam, Abdul Hadi,

And Allah, the Exalted communicates in most precise and distinct manner, leaving no room for anyone to draw meanings and perceptions of his own choice, liking and preferences.

Arabic is a scientific language, as precise and factual as any scientific reality could be. It is precise and accurate and specific like simple mathematical calculations.

It is admitted fact that when a sentence or line is taken out from a text and read in isolation it may convey a perception different from the one it conveys when placed back in the text. You quoted a part of the sentence to arrive at "and this supports the second case as well".

"The second case" seems overweighing perhaps because of the majority of translations. Without being disrespectful to majority of translators, the unfortunate fact is that in time-line they put earlier translation and exegesis on their table before starting a new translation of their own. Majority did nothing excepting changing few words with their synonyms and in those places where they wished to put forward a new line of thinking or creating a new sect. Otherwise you will not find difference in 95-98 percent text of Quraan, in the translations.

Rashad Khalifa spoke atleast this truth that he laid, all translation and exegesis available in world at that point in time, in front of him before starting his own translation.

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/057.%20Al%20Hadid/Temp%2001%2057.10b.gif
Any such person does not and will never equal/equate with any one from amongst you, the living people, who had spent before the event of the Conquest of Mecca and/or anyone who had confronted war.

Minkum is a prepositional phrase and in all languages of the world, perhaps, a prepositional phrase is not the subject of verb in a sentence. So is in Arabic. "Man" is the subject of verb and is a relative pronoun. And a relative pronoun needs a clause to make him identified and specific. The following clause identifies him as to who is he who will never become equal to all of us, the living humanity, whoever read and listened this sentence.

Someone might not, by stretch of imagination, take it otherway round, or "the second case makes the more sense", it is elaborated
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/057.%20Al%20Hadid/Temp%2001%2057.10c.gif
They are the people who are comparatively great. Their greatness is in elevated rank/position and status in contrast to all/than the people who did the same act of spending and confronting war in time and space in time-line after the conquest.

Does it leave room for "the second case"?

Thanks, for considering and pondering over it.

Word by Word Analysis 5710

Abdul-Hadi

Greetings and Peace, all group

@Mazhar Thank you for your explanation. In truth, the outcome of the people mentioned does not concern me, especially as such persons are no longer with us. Do you feel that among the living we should make judgements as to position/rank? If so, how should people of different rank be treated differently?

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

Mazhar

Do you feel that among the living we should make judgements as to position/rank? If so, how should people of different rank be treated differently?

We are nobody to give or determine rankings of people. This is for the Sustainer Lord of all that exists to determine and declare. Whomever He, the exalted has declared distinct and high ranking we need to respect and salute him like a disciplined soldier saluting people putting stars and swords of rank on their shoulders.

As for living the criteria to consider someone as member of the community is given with regard to observable conduct, as mentioned in 95 and 911;

Then/for reason if they repent and they maintained/managed/organized/performed the congregational Ass-sa'laat, and paid the Az-zakat then they are your brethren in the System of Life-Islam

KDC501

Brothers do not waste your time with Mazhar. He is a hadithist who has nothing else to do than twist the scripture in an attempt to derail people from the path. I'm surprised that he has nothing better to do with his time. You are not guiding anyone Mazhar rather you are only hurting yourself. Tricking people with your silly translations is a waste of time since you hide the truth while you know it. You are cursed by God if you do not repent for what you are doing. Those who deliberately hide the truth while they know it can never be called servants of God.

The same man whom you worship is the same man who will reject you. Muhammad does not know you brother. What part of God alone do you people not understand???? God alone is our Saviour. Not Muhammad! Muhammad has nothing to us. He is just an ordinary human being who was inspired. Don't bring your trash here on this forum. You are nothing but a hypocrite who guises the quranic teachings as sunni teachings to hide the truth.

KDC501

Why vague?
Al those messengers you named where send to a town and from 794 we learn that ?And We sent no prophet unto any township but We did afflict its folk with tribulation and adversity that haply they might grow humble.?

salaam and may Allah increase us in our knowledge
Bender

You still don't understand brother that the Quran didn't specify which. If I say that the crowd has Republicans and Democrats are you able brother to identify who is which by such a vague statement????

794 Whenever We sent a prophet to any town, We would afflict its people with hardship and adversity so that they may implore.

then later on.....

7101 These are the towns whose stories We relate to you; their messengers had come to them with proofs, but they would not acknowledge what they had denied before. It is such that God stamps on the hearts of the ingrates.

How do you know which is which. Didn't you say that you agree that there is a clear distinction between a messenger and a prophet?? Bring your proof and tell me which one among the people in the stories were messengers and which were prophets.

You will never be able to so since these Quranic verses aren't clear on which people were specified as prophets and which ones was specified as messengers. As i said before these are vague statements which are open to different interpretations . The only way to find the real interpretation is to put everything from the Quran into perspective.

Peace,

Kevin

KDC501

Salaam Kevin,

Sorry, I don?t know how to rephrase it better. But I will give it an other try.

here are the examples of the link you gave
"Rasoulan Nabyyan"
?Siddiqqan Nabyya?
?Basharan Rasoula?

Thus according to them every prophet is a messenger, every prophet is a saint and every messenger is a human.
But we know from The Quran that not every messenger is a human, there are also messengers that are not humans. An angel can be a messenger and The Ruh is also a messenger. And an angel and The Ruh are not humans. Thus from my understanding this is not a proof that every prophet is a messenger, there might be some prophets whom are not messengers in the same way that not every messenger is a human.

In the link you gave they even mentioned ?Malakan Rasoula? (angel messenger) but in this example they didn?t say that every messenger is an angel hmm
I hope you understand now what I?m trying to say.

Just to make it more clear, from my understanding the beginning of verse 1958 is referring to the prophets mentioned from the first verse of chapter 19 till verse 57. Meryem is also mentioned in 191-57 thus I believe she is included in the list of the prophets but she can never be a messenger because there are only male messengers. Another example is Idries, he was a prophet but as far as I know he was not a messenger according to The Quran.

Do you know what is the dictionary meaning for messenger

http//dictionary.reference.com/browse/messenger

" a person who carries a message".

What will be the point of prophethood if the prophet didn't carry a message??? How can a Nabi not be a Raool if the Nabi brings a message???? Your logic doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. Also where is this whole argument about Angel Messengers and Saint messengers etc. Of course there are different types of messengers that were not human but that wasn't the point I was trying to show you! A prophets brings a message, so hence he himself is also a messenger!!!!

Where in the Quran does it say that Mary was a prophet ???

I think that I already clearly said that Mohammed was also a prophet so I don?t understand why you still pretend that I didn?t say that. Please see my previous post to you, maybe it?s not the best English but I think I made my self clear that I believe that Mohammed was a prophet and a messenger of Allah.

What I don?t understand is why you say AFTER Mohammed. How can Mohammed believe and support this messenger after his death. My understanding of 381 is that there will come a messenger to every prophet including Mohammed. Mohammed had also to believe and support this messenger. Thus not after Mohammed died but while he was still alive, because how could he ever support such a messenger if he is already dead? This is the thing that I don't understand.

I know that some believe that Mohammed was this messenger who is mentioned in 381 but I don't think that is correct for the same reasons as you already pointed out, because he was also a prophet.

And I know that some believe that Rashad Khalifa (or someone else after Mohammed died) was this messenger, but that is to my understanding also not correct because if Rashad Khalifa was this messenger mentioned in 381 then there must be while Rashad Khalifa was alive some prophet (thus with a book and hikma) who had to believe and support Rashad Khalifa. To my knowledge there was no prophet while Rashad Khalifa was alive.

hmm Where do you see messengership in 689? I only see prophethood.

Good argument. But you are bit shortsighted.

381 God took a covenant from the prophets "For what I have given you of the book and wisdom, then a messenger will come to you authenticating what is with you. You will acknowledge him and support him." He said, "Do you testify, and agree to this burden?" they said, "We testify." He said, "Then bear witness, and I am with you bearing witness."

337 When We took from the prophets their covenant. From you, and from Noah, and Abraham, and Moses, and Jesus the son of Mary; We took from them a strong covenant.

Lets use your same argument. If the prophets are dead then how is it that all of the prophets took the same covenant and were awaiting the same messenger???? Wouldn't this contradict with your argument that the prophets need to be alive in order for this prophecy to be fulfilled???

Why are you bringing Rashad Khalifa into this discussion. I can't recall ever mentioning him at all on this thread till now.

Regarding where i see messenger-ship.....
689 Those to whom We have given the book, the law, and the prophethood, if they reject it, then We will entrust it to a people who will not reject it.

You don't need to be a prophet in order to bring the law. The law can me brought by messengers as well. Plus if you notice the verse didn't describe who was given what but all it says is "Those to whom We have given the book, the law, and the prophethood " . Who are "Those"???. The 'those' here do not mean the people previously mentioned in the verses but rather the people who had prophets and messengers sent to them.

Also....

There is not one piece of evidence in the verse prior to 689 where anyone was SPECIFICALLY mentioned as a prophet or a messenger. If so please tell me where it is among the verses.

Peace

Kevin

Abdul-Hadi

Greetings and Peace, all group

We are nobody to give or determine rankings of people. This is for the Sustainer Lord of all that exists to determine and declare. Whomever He, the exalted has declared distinct and high ranking we need to respect and salute him like a disciplined soldier saluting people putting stars and swords of rank on their shoulders.

As for living the criteria to consider someone as member of the community is given with regard to observable conduct, as mentioned in 95 and 911;

Then/for reason if they repent and they maintained/managed/organized/performed the congregational Ass-sa'laat, and paid the Az-zakat then they are your brethren in the System of Life-Islam

Okay then. Whether persons in the past were granted especial respect in their lives on earth or not, I know of nobody still living that ALLAH has declared distinct and high ranking. Do you? hmm So, all people living are to treated the same (so long as they don't aggress, etc).

2285 The messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord; and the believers, all who believe in GOD, and His angels, and His Books, and His messengers "We do not make a distinction between any of His messengers;" and they said "We hear and obey, forgive us our Lord, and to you is our destiny."

All messengers are to be treated the same.

384 Say "We believe in GOD and what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Patriarchs, and what was given to Moses and Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We do not make a distinction between any of them, and to Him we submit."

All prophets are to treated the same.

What has passed is past; how believers treated other believers in the past seems delving beyond the deen. How can this possibly be applied to the system in our lives today when there are none to apply it to? hmm There are those that put effort in the deen, and the reward for such persons is with ALLAH, ISA.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

Mazhar

Okay then. Whether persons in the past were granted especial respect in their lives on earth or not, I know of nobody still living that ALLAH has declared distinct and high ranking. Do you? So, all people living are to treated the same (so long as they don't aggress, etc).

2285 The messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord; and the believers, all who believe in GOD, and His angels, and His Books, and His messengers "We do not make a distinction between any of His messengers;" and they said "We hear and obey, forgive us our Lord, and to you is our destiny."

5710 is not about the Messengers of Allah, the Exalted.

My President and the Chief of Army Staff of my country's army does not know even the name of Unknown Soldier of America but when they officially visit they go to his grave and ceremoially salute him, lay wreath of flowers, standby in token of respect for few minutes in silence. That dead man is granted distinction only by American nation and we pay him respects. But, it is strange, when Allah says He has granted distinction, response is "Whether persons in the past were granted especial respect in their lives on earth or not, I know of nobody still living that ALLAH has declared distinct and high ranking".

Mazhar

KDC replying to Mazhar in reply 60

Quote from Mazhar on December 07, 2011, 031849 PM
Why so evasive talk. Simply attend to five words and say about those as to how are they related to each other to know what they convey, according to your "untwisted" understanding.

Brother I have already answered your points many times over. Your translation is a failed attempt to make Muhammad the last messenger of God when this is not the case. Nabi and Rasool are two separate words and two different ideas which is what I have been trying to show to you.

Nabi means prophet NOT MESSENGER.

RASOOL means messenger NOT PROPHET.

Even in some of the sunni translations this is the case!!! Who are you really trying to fool brother??? Do you know that you are only fooling yourself???

KDC replying to Bender in reply 87

Do you know what is the dictionary meaning for messenger

http//dictionary.reference.com/browse/messenger

" a person who carries a message".

What will be the point of prophethood if the prophet didn't carry a message??? How can a Nabi not be a Raool if the Nabi brings a message? Your logic doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever.

Mazhar