:: Ramadhan Fasting or .....? ::
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Salaam Bender,
No contradiction if read and applied correctly; another example...
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
= Daad-Ra-Ba = to heal, strike, propound as an example, put forth a parable, go, make a journey, travel, mix, avoid, take away, put a cover, shut, mention/declare/state, propound, set forth, compare, liken, seek a way, march on, set, impose, prevent, fight, traffic with anyone's property for a share in the profit, he made or caused to be or constituted, leave/forsake, take away thing (with 'an).
Depressed ground, hard ground in a plain, sandy valley, commissioner as he has to travel much.
Kind manner, lean, thin, similar, alike, the act of striking, a blow, going from place to place, vicissitude of life, affliction especially that which relates to one's person, as disease, death, degradation is common and general suffering.beat, struck, smote, hit, the making a thing fall upon another thing, discipline/train, to cast forth, threw or flung it, seal/stamp, veil/curtain/cover/barrier, to point or make a sign, prohibit/hinder/prevent/withheld/restrain, collision, corrupted/disordered/disturbance/unsettled/confused, turn away, avoid, shun, fashion/mould/adapt, mention or set forth (e.g. a parable/example), explain, make a way, multiplying, go/travel, went away, it was or became long, excite/incite/urge/instigate, contend, dispose/accommodate, retract/digression/transition, to silence, tremble/shiver, share/portion.
Location where something is struck, wool or goat's hair separated or plucked or beaten with a mallet, sword, tent-peg, mallet.Salaam Noon,
The contradiction is that the word has 2 meanings, sometimes x=a sometimes x=b.
and
We can make x whatever we want that suits us best. This is then not a clear Book while The Quran says that it's a clear Book.btw. you are talking here about a root not a word.
And yes I know some examples myself which I still have to figure out. -
peace mmkhan,
I have seen a few people say this, but they cite no evidence other than their own statement. What is your evidence?
Let's be clear such a theory would be impossible to prove per Quran.
Thus, why use an impossible to prove theory to govern how one interprets Quran?
Here is an example I like to cite
idrib bi AAasaka al hajara fa infajarat min hu = strike with your staff the rock, then vented from it (twelve springs)
idrib bi AAasaka al hajara fa inbajasat min hu = strike with your staff the rock, then gushed from it (twelve springs)Please tell us the difference between the words in bold. Thanks.
Salaam Wakas,
Allah and AlRahmaan are referring to the same, why then sometimes Allah is used and sometimes AlRahmaan?
Can we for example substitute AlRahmaanu in 551 and make it Allahu?
Even if they are referring to the same the meaning of the words is different.At the moment I have no answer for your question about inbajasat and infajarat, but there is certainly a difference between those 2 words in their meaning, even if they are referring to the same.
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Salam mmkan
- It's for the same reason that God mentions the other details of the story. What would we benefit from knowing that Mary went into labor and rested near a palm tree?
"And We have certainly sent down to you distinct verses and examples from those who passed on before you and an admonition for those who fear Allah ."
Salaam luna,
If we went into such situation, it may guide us. BTW, I think it is not palm tree, but a banana tree. Anyways, that is altogether a different topic. )
- I'm not sure what you mean, but the fast that was required of Mary is mentioned in the same verse
" 'Indeed, I have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so I will not speak today to man.' "
I mean to say that 1926 shows us how abstention is prescribed to people before us as said in 2183.
I understand that the first two verses are talking about heaven. There's a high garden however it's fruits are near. The third verse says "eat and drink", not "eat and drink of it". So it's not necessarily related to fruits.
Actually the word "springs" is mentioned in the first verse, so "ishraboo" could be directed at that. Either way like the verses before, there's no pronoun to link "eat and drink" to anything.
I took it the other way. I understand it is not necessary to say "eat and drink OF IT" as it is already in the topic going on.
how about these verses?
When the disciples said O Jesus, son of Mary! Is thy Lord able to send down for us a table spread with food from heaven? He said Observe your duty to Allah, if ye are true believers.
(They said) We wish to eat thereof ----> the word is used for eat is "na'kul"
"How should ye not eat of that over which the name of Allah hath been mentioned, when He hath explained unto you that which is forbidden unto you unless ye are compelled thereto" ----> the word used is "ta'kulu"
Will be eating from trees of zaqqum ----> 'akilun]
And filling with it your bellies
And drinking on top of it from scalding water ----->
And will drink as the drinking of thirsty camels. ------{
All these words ta'kulu, 'akilun, sharibun are derivatives of and , same as
No no, sorry for misunderstanding. I asked about "kuloo and ishraboo" together.
Could be. But here "a'ynan" is the same in both verses. In the main discussion topic there's a slight difference between "ishrabu" and "ushribu". Moreover, the word "ushriba" is used in the sentence as an image.
"And (worship of) the calf was made to sink into their hearts because of their rejection"
Can you please translate both aayaats with "a'ynan" for me? i.e., 260 and 1926. How did you understand they got same meaning? hmm
"Ishraboo" and "Ushriboo" both are masculine plural. "Ishraboo" is imperative verb and "Ushriboo" is passive perfect verb . When they are derived from same root, its root meaning remains same as in "a'ynan" which fits both aayaats.
Like for example
I'lmun means knowledge. All its derivatives will have its root meaning in it.
A'lima, U'lamaa-u, A'limta, A'limtu, A'limtum, I'lmihi, etc...
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan -
Peace mmkhan,
Yes 100 years afterwards when they added vocalization marks to distinguish that particular word. That's why I said be careful use context since there are many others it's exactly the same word depended on context or the way the sentence is formed will determine it's meaning; as another example and there are many look up all uses of their hands.
Peace Noon,
Do you really think so brother? I don't think so, everything is given as is. No one can mark in such a perfect way except Allah. I agree that context is important.
Thanks again brother.
mmKhan -
Can you please translate both aayaats with "a'ynan" for me? i.e., 260 and 1926. How did you understand they got same meaning? hmm
"Ishraboo" and "Ushriboo" both are masculine plural. "Ishraboo" is imperative verb and "Ushriboo" is passive perfect verb . When they are derived from same root, its root meaning remains same as in "a'ynan" which fits both aayaats.
No you got me wrong, I was saying that both words are in the same form. Unlike ishrabu and ushribu which come in different tenses as you explained. But I insist that "ushribu" has a different meaning in this case. If you use it separately it would mean "made to drink". But in the verse's context it's different. It's an image.
Anyway, I don't think we'll hit common ground here I'm taking the literal meaning of the verses (in Arabic) and you're diving deep into the science of roots. I believe that the Quran is much clearer than that as God says
And We have made (this Scripture) easy in thy language only that they may heed.
Alif, Lam, Ra. These are the verses of the clear Book.
A Lecture in Arabic, containing no crookedness, that haply they may ward off (evil).
I will check the links you provided.
Thanks -
peace mmkhan,
...nor you can bring forward any aayat to prove me wrong.
I cited "inbajasat and infajarat" as an evidence/example previously. You were unable to answer. That is fine, take your time.
Once you have had time to study it, then tell us, as per Quran, what the difference is. If you cannot, we can only conclude either of two things
- your theory is not correct
or - your theory cannot be proved
If (1) it is unsound to use a disproved theory to govern how one interprets Quran.
If (2) it is unsound to use an unprovable theory to govern how one interprets Quran.The simple logic is if a single word gives two meaning or two words giving the same meaning may misguide us, we may not able to reach to the exact of what Allah wanted to say.
The key word you used is "may". It "may" not misguide us also. We have a mind, thus we can use reason/logic etc.
peace bender,
Can we for example substitute AlRahmaanu in 551 and make it Allahu?
No, we cannot substitute. My point is that, as per Quran, such a theory cannot be proven, thus it is unsound to use it to govern how one interprets Quran. Why not let us interpret Quran how it guides us to.
Does it say only one word one meaning? No. Does it say no two words can mean the same in a given context? No.
To say so is conjecture, and conjecture is no substitute for the truth.
An example
- I am not sure if I can hold my breath under water for longer than two minutes.
- After I drank all of it, I crushed the drinks can and threw it in the bin.
The author uses the same word "can" to mean two different things. Is the author unclear? Is it impossible to ascertain the meaning?
Ponder.
- your theory is not correct
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Eating large meals causes high amounts of suger in the blood, whilst eating no meals the suger drops to nothing. All the organs rely on more or less a reasonable level of suger.
Food Fasts are and particularly when we didn?t know about diabetes a killer. And to say saum is food fasting, then Allah didn't care about some people dying or he didn't know this could happen, both of which are not possible,
Simerlary low blood pressure can cause fainting and other things.
peace
true diabetes is a leading cause of death but RARELY do diabetics drop dead from low sugar (hypoglycemia). most diabetics have experienced hypoglycemia. if you are a diabetic and really want to fast, like i said consult with doctor first.
where did you get this about God not caring if people die? did God not say that if fasting is difficult for you, then feed the needy? even if you are not a diabetic but find it difficult to fast, then don't and feed the needy. God wishes ease and not hardship.
if you don't know that you have diabetes and you start fasting but then become sick, stop the fast and seek medical attention.
true low blood pressure can cause fainting but it is not the pressure number as some people usually run low like 90/50 without any issues. going without food/water for 8-12 hours or 24 hours can drop your pressure but not cause death. it is prolonged and severe dehydration that can lead to death. so if you are fasting and if you feel faint, then stop the fasting.
going without food/water for 8-12 hours for a day or two or three - most people with the exception of those with certain medical condition should be able to do. again, if it is difficult then don't.
God who created us knows what will make us sick, what is good for us and what is bad for us. we just have to use our brains.
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true diabetes is a leading cause of death but RARELY do diabetics drop dead from low sugar (hypoglycemia). most diabetics have experienced hypoglycemia. if you are a diabetic and really want to fast, like i said consult with doctor first.
where did you get this about God not caring if people die? did God not say that if fasting is difficult for you, then feed the needy? even if you are not a diabetic but find it difficult to fast, then don't and feed the needy. God wishes ease and not hardship.
if you don't know that you have diabetes and you start fasting but then become sick, stop the fast and seek medical attention.
true low blood pressure can cause fainting but it is not the pressure number as some people usually run low like 90/50 without any issues. going without food/water for 8-12 hours or 24 hours can drop your pressure but not cause death. it is prolonged and severe dehydration that can lead to death. so if you are fasting and if you feel faint, then stop the fasting.
going without food/water for 8-12 hours for a day or two or three - most people with the exception of those with certain medical condition should be able to do. again, if it is difficult then don't.
God who created us knows what will make us sick, what is good for us and what is bad for us. we just have to use our brains.
If your blood glucose level gets low enough, shaking, weakness, hunger, and other symmptoms occur. Actually really low glucose levels are more dangerous than really high levels. Diabetics ,too much exercise OR WORK, can get their glucose levels so low they can go into shock. Shock, if severe, can kill instantly,
People who have a low blood pressure problems Not eating can cause the blood pressure to drop and faint ? just think if one of these people is driving when it happens.
Not just these, people nowadays take medications for load of other things , the surgeries are usually full everyday Br.
The point was people where not aware of these types of cases where they require carefull considerations and madications a few centuries ago so how safe was fasting for them? Nowdays okay we have medicines and doctors who make us aware of all them things it doesn?t mean you could fast with such flaws before but now you don?t have to , simple answer eat , drink when you need to and you avoid a lot of these effects whether you have doctors or not to tell you.
I have even seen cases where people have a heart attack just after keeping or opening a fast , older people, possibly a minor blockage causing heart attack when they may not be aware they have heart issues.
I could never recommend anyone to fast , as they may have a flaw in them i am not aware of, and if it causes harm i havn?t gained anything but the anger of God and the doctor.
But you seem a fit person , so no stopping from what keeps you fitter.
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peace mmkhan,
I cited "inbajasat and infajarat" as an evidence/example previously. You were unable to answer. That is fine, take your time.
Once you have had time to study it, then tell us, as per Quran, what the difference is. If you cannot, we can only conclude either of two things
- your theory is not correct
or - your theory cannot be proved
If (1) it is unsound to use a disproved theory to govern how one interprets Quran.
If (2) it is unsound to use an unprovable theory to govern how one interprets Quran.The key word you used is "may". It "may" not misguide us also. We have a mind, thus we can use reason/logic etc.
Peace Wakas,
I will keep myself -X until Allah show my something about this inshaAllah.
But Bender came up with excellent point about Allah and AlRahmaan, we cannot substitute those words, why! Because there is SOME REASON for using those words, please think carefully. If there is no reason, then why can't we substitute?
Peace,
mmKhan - your theory is not correct
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peace mmkhan,
As I said, take your time.
If there is no reason, then why can't we substitute?
You are mixing things. We cannot substitute as that is what the author of Quran has used. That is different from the theory you proposed AND are using to govern how you interpret Quran.
My point is that, as per Quran, such a theory cannot be proven, thus it is unsound to use it to govern how one interprets Quran.
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I cited "inbajasat and infajarat" as an evidence/example previously. You were unable to answer. That is fine, take your time.
Salaam,
The only thing you proofed is that you can give an example where translators give the same meaning to 2 different words. That does not proof that the 2 words have the same meaning as per Quran.
The reason why they give them the same meaning is obvious, "inbajasat" is only mentioned 1 time in The Quran so their logic told them that it must have the same meaning as "infajarat", but on what basis?Once you have had time to study it, then tell us, as per Quran, what the difference is. If you cannot, we can only conclude either of two things
- your theory is not correct
or - your theory cannot be proved
If (1) it is unsound to use a disproved theory to govern how one interprets Quran.
If (2) it is unsound to use an unprovable theory to govern how one interprets Quran.I can pull out the same for you Can you tell me as per Quran why they have the same meaning (and I believe you can not as inbajasat has only 1 occurrence in the Quran), if you can not then we can conclude either of the 2 things you mentioned.
No, we cannot substitute. My point is that, as per Quran, such a theory cannot be proven, thus it is unsound to use it to govern how one interprets Quran. Why not let us interpret Quran how it guides us to.
Does it say only one word one meaning? No. Does it say no two words can mean the same in a given context? No.
To say so is conjecture, and conjecture is no substitute for the truth.
Even if it can not be proven it does not automatically mean that your theory is correct. You use the so called ?proof by contradiction? but without proofing that the opposite is contradicting.
My proof is that when 1 word has n meanings then we have a contradiction in the meaning of the word and thus we found a contradiction and thus AlQuran is not from Allah. If you think this is wrong reasoning then please show me where I went wrong in my reasoning.
But I like to know your proof that your method is the correct one. Or the proof that my method (and some others) is false. If you can?t then what you said here is also applying to your approach, it?s not more then conjecture.
Anyway this is how I and I gues also MmKhan and probably also others study AlQuran, it doesn't mean that others have to study it in the same way.
But I really like to know how you understand 482, what kind of contradictions do you have in mind?
An example
- I am not sure if I can hold my breath under water for longer than two minutes.
- After I drank all of it, I crushed the drinks can and threw it in the bin.
The author uses the same word "can" to mean two different things. Is the author unclear? Is it impossible to ascertain the meaning?
Ponder.
There is only a slight difference, this is from Wakas and AlQuran is from Allah. And I am not allowed to understand the ayaats of Allah with man made ayaats (the reason for this is obvious).
Salaam,
Bender - your theory is not correct
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Peace mmkhan,
An interesting post. I don't have any Arabic so I am almost relying really on the logic of what is written in English. So, I have always thought it odd that most translations that I have read go from talking about having sexual intercourse with your wives on the nights of fasting and then saying..."therefore, you may eat and drink until the white thread..." This simply does not make sense.
Dawn.
Thar it Because The verse doesn't mention anything about "wives" . Intead it says "nisa" which doesn't mean wives .
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Peace Maha,
Would you then care to tell what Nisa means then?
Dawn.
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If your blood glucose level gets low enough, shaking, weakness, hunger, and other symmptoms occur. Actually really low glucose levels are more dangerous than really high levels. Diabetics ,too much exercise OR WORK, can get their glucose levels so low they can go into shock. Shock, if severe, can kill instantly,
People who have a low blood pressure problems Not eating can cause the blood pressure to drop and faint ? just think if one of these people is driving when it happens.
can you explain how not eating for short period of time will drop your blood pressure to the point of fainting?
by the way, i am a physician. been in practice for 10 years and know a thing or two about managing diabetes and hypertension.
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can you explain how not eating for short period of time will drop your blood pressure to the point of fainting?
by the way, i am a physician. been in practice for 10 years and know a thing or two about managing diabetes and hypertension.
Just for information
Dehydration, or not getting enough fluid, causes low blood pressure, weakness, dizziness, fatigue, and nausea.
When you become dehydrated, your body loses more water than it takes in. Even mild dehydration can cause weakness, dizziness and fatigue. and strenuous exercise or heat exhaustion can all lead to dehydration.
That is enough from me on this subject though. peace
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w/salaam bender,
Those quotes were directed at mmkhan, in case there was any confusion, however I will address your points.
I included the option of "your theory is unprovable" that means neither true or false, i.e. unknown. Of course, the implicit implication is that the opposite view is not proven also. Not that I have attempted to prove it however. The burden of proof is upon the claimant...
Here is the difference, let me repeat, but perhaps in a clearer way
We have to get back to AlQuraan only to get the answer, and hence only 1926 is the option available.
No, it can't be used. There are no two words in AlQuraan giving a single meaning.
So, I simply asked, as per Quran, what is the difference between X and Y? MMkhan (and you) could not answer. Simple.
Thus, the statement of "No, it can't be used. There are no two words in AlQuraan giving a single meaning" is unproven, and is in need of correction.
That was my point.
Re 482
e.g. of contradiction
the earth was created in 6 days
the earth was created in 5 daysMy method can be viewed here
http//www.quran434.com/study-method.html -
can you explain how not eating for short period of time will drop your blood pressure to the point of fainting?
by the way, i am a physician. been in practice for 10 years and know a thing or two about managing diabetes and hypertension.
there are places in europe where in this ramadan you would fast about 18-19 hours. So thats not a 'short period of time' especially not considered the fact that you are not fasting for a couple of days but for a whole month. And what makes it more unhealthy and dangerous is the hot weather. And as a physician you should not the effects on the body when you deprive it for water for more then 18 hours daily in hot summer days.
So the question is, why would God deprive his followers for water 19 hours daily for a whole month during summer? And what would happen to a society where everyone was deprived of water on a daily basis during summertime?
Peace
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there are places in europe where in this ramadan you would fast about 18-19 hours. So thats not a 'short period of time' especially not considered the fact that you are not fasting for a couple of days but for a whole month. And what makes it more unhealthy and dangerous is the hot weather. And as a physician you should not the effects on the body when you deprive it for water for more then 18 hours daily in hot summer days.
So the question is, why would God deprive his followers for water 19 hours daily for a whole month during summer? And what would happen to a society where everyone was deprived of water on a daily basis during summertime?
Peace
2185 A month of aspiration, in which the Qur?an was revealed; as a
guide to the people and clarities from the guidance and the
Criterion. Therefore, whoever of you witnesses the month, then
let him fast therein. And whoever is ill or traveling, then the same
number from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not
to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count,
and glorify God for what He has guided you, that you may be
thankful.I don't think God would prescribe something for us to do if it was going to be harmful at all.
I have only fasted 4 days out of this Ramadan because I have been dehydrated, but that is because I went into Ramadan dehydrated. That being said, I am hurting because of my own shortcoming, not because of anything Allah (swt) has prescribed.
But, that is just my observation. May God forgive me if I have said anything wrong.
With Peace,
Amina
