Abraham offers his daughters to the wrongdoers?
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Salam all
Question to Sura al HudMuhammad Asad
1177 AND WHEN Our messengers came unto Lot, he was sorely grieved on their account, seeing that it was beyond his power to shield them;107 and he exclaimed "This is a woeful day!"Shabbir Ahmed
1177 When Our messengers came to Lot he was distressed, and did not know how to save his people. He exclaimed, "This is a difficult day!"1177
Muhammad Asad
1178 And his people came running to him, impelled towards his house for they had ever been wont to commit , abominations. Said "O my people! these daughters of mine they are purer for you !109 Be, then, conscious of God, and disgrace me not by my guests. Is there not among you even one right-minded man?"Shabbir Ahmed 1178 And the most iniquitous among his people came rushing to Lot. (They wanted the visiting messengers to approve their behavior.) Lot said, "O My people! Your wives, who are like my daughters, are permitted for you. Be mindful of God, and do not humiliate me in the presence of my guests. Is there not a single upright man among you?"
1178
Muhammad Asad
1179 They answered "Thou hast always known that we have no use whatever for thy daughters;110 and, verily, well dost thou know what we want!"Shabbir Ahmed
1179 They said, "You know, we have little interest in our wives whom you call your daughters. You know well what we want." 191179
When we look at the translations, then both stumble over the fact that Prophet Abraham apparently offered his daughters to the sinful people. This can not be true?
First these men were not homosexual, but they were MARRIED but are left their wifes and enjoyed themselves with men.
Second in this case Abraham would support Zina?
Third A prophet, who offers his daughters as a pledge? nopeIn Shabbir we see how he has solved the dilemma. But there may be another possibility?
can we translatenot these daughters of mine they are purer for you
but these my daughters are the purest (or purer than you) or here these are my daughters the purest , i.e. look at my daughters (and your wifes) they are purer /purest then you?
As contrast and fact not as an offer?thank you for your thoughts
salam -
are you thinking of luth rather than ibrahim?
In my view, the daughters are the malaika themselves. That's why 'ha'ulaai' is used.
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I think this may be one case construed on previous conception too.
There is no "take may daughters" "marry my daughters" whatosever.
It says These daughters of mine, they more pure for you, so be conscious of God...
I think yes, why not, it could be the messengers themselves he was talking about.
Salaam
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The story is a lesson of what happened at the time of Abraham and Moses - something so horific it was recorded so people will remember such a heinous act , and only one person stood up against it
Pharoe ordered the slaughter of male children, which is beyound anything.
Abraham , the father of Moses, was hiding his son Moses/Ismail The croud new he had a boy and Abraham and his wife where hiding him, but they said you now what we have come for, and he said what are you talking about i only have these innocent daughters of mine , here. Of course they didn't want them as the order was to slaughter male children.
The Malaika are two of pharoes soldiers- the pharoe wants Moses as Moses is actualy his illegitamate son, and of course he does get him and adopts him as his son.
Nearly all of this is in the quran.
with respects Moses, Abraham where Very Great Prophets and did nothing wrong to my Knowledge.
peace
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The story is a lesson of what happened at the time of Abraham and Moses - something so horific it was recorded so people will remember such a heinous act , and only one person stood up against it
Pharoe ordered the slaughter of male children, which is beyound anything.
Abraham , the father of Moses, was hiding his son Moses/Ismail The croud new he had a boy and Abraham and his wife where hiding him, but they said you now what we have come for, and he said what are you talking about i only have these innocent daughters of mine , here. Of course they didn't want them as the order was to slaughter male children.
The Malaika are two of pharoes soldiers- the pharoe wants Moses as Moses is actualy his illegitamate son, and of course he does get him and adopts him as his son.
Nearly all of this is in the quran.
with respects Moses, Abraham where Very Great Prophets and did nothing wrong to my Knowledge.
peace
Since when did Abraham become the father of Moses and Moses become Ishmail??
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The story is a lesson of what happened at the time of Abraham and Moses - something so horific it was recorded so people will remember such a heinous act , and only one person stood up against it
Pharoe ordered the slaughter of male children, which is beyound anything.
Abraham , the father of Moses, was hiding his son Moses/Ismail The croud new he had a boy and Abraham and his wife where hiding him, but they said you now what we have come for, and he said what are you talking about i only have these innocent daughters of mine , here. Of course they didn't want them as the order was to slaughter male children.
The Malaika are two of pharoes soldiers- the pharoe wants Moses as Moses is actualy his illegitamate son, and of course he does get him and adopts him as his son.
Nearly all of this is in the quran.
with respects Moses, Abraham where Very Great Prophets and did nothing wrong to my Knowledge.
peace
I am confused.
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peace
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7503.msg68869#msg68869
http//answering-islam.org/PQ/ch9b-index.html
Abraham refused to sacrifice his son ? according to the very old quran.
Ismail is a descriptive term to my knowledge.
i -sma ?il = one who heard Allah , just think about ?sma? to hear.
So Abraham refused to slaughter one who heard Allah.
Only Moses heard Allah according to the quran ? I think.
And as you know Moses was saved from the slaughter by his father and mother ? according to the quran.
So Abraham is the father of Moses and the rest of the story is all in the quran but has been chopped into pieces and told as different stories to my understanding.
Lot = man full of sympathy?????
Mind it is very interesting of what they have made the quran into!
Sorry to say my imam used to say those crowd of people who went to Abraham/lots house wanted the angels because they where so pretty , so for the wrong reasons.
what a baloney.
peace
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peace
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7503.msg68869#msg68869
http//answering-islam.org/PQ/ch9b-index.html
Abraham refused to sacrifice his son ? according to the very old quran.
Ismail is a descriptive term to my knowledge.
i -sma ?il = one who heard Allah , just think about ?sma? to hear.
So Abraham refused to slaughter one who heard Allah.
Only Moses heard Allah according to the quran ? I think.
And as you know Moses was saved from the slaughter by his father and mother ? according to the quran.
So Abraham is the father of Moses and the rest of the story is all in the quran but has been chopped into pieces and told as different stories to my understanding.
Lot = man full of sympathy?????
Mind it is very interesting of what they have made the quran into!
Sorry to say my imam used to say those crowd of people who went to Abraham/lots house wanted the angels because they where so pretty , so for the wrong reasons.
what a baloney.
peace
Abraham didn't refuse to sacrifice his son, he was saved from sacrificing him.
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peace
Mind it is very interesting of what they have made the quran into!
Yes looking at this I agree and this is what happens when people DO make a distinction between the messages and try to make up the past from the book that reminds you where the stories are.
peace
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And what have all these later messages to do with Lut and his words to its people?
Salaam
Nothing, the discussion appears to be about Abraham hiding his son Moses from people who want to kill male children and he's offering them his daughters apparently.
peace
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Ayisha is the uthman quran wrong?
http//answering-islam.org/PQ/ch9b-index.html
"And they did not submit ".
peace
from your link of the christians who bash Islam site "And they did not submit (become muslims)" speaking of verse 37.103.
37.102 Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said "O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice Now see what is thy view!" (The son) said "O my father! Do as thou art commanded thou will find me, if Allah so wills one practising Patience and Constancy!"
37.103 So when they had both submitted their wills (to Allah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
according to your link if they did not submit none of the rest would happen, in fact if Abraham and his son didn't submit (become muslims) then half the Quran wouldn't be happening.
peace
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from your link of the christians who bash Islam site "And they did not submit (become muslims)" speaking of verse 37.103.
37.102 Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said "O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice Now see what is thy view!" (The son) said "O my father! Do as thou art commanded thou will find me, if Allah so wills one practising Patience and Constancy!"
37.103 So when they had both submitted their wills (to Allah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
according to your link if they did not submit none of the rest would happen, in fact if Abraham and his son didn't submit (become muslims) then half the Quran wouldn't be happening.
peace
No no sane person could obey such an order irrespective of who gives it, and according to what know about the way of God almighty, the order can only be from a devil.
lets see what god says, who ordered the killing of the males.
002.049
And remember, We delivered you from the people of Pharaoh They set you hard tasks and punishments, slaughtered your sons and let your women-folk live; therein was a tremendous trial from your Lord.In so much of the quran God says "do not kill" or other words to this meaning-so who ordered the killing?
God really even though you have a quran , a very old quran, probably the oldest saying they refused to do the killing which i think to the majority is a Godly action.
Pharoe i remeber in one ayah is even called the devil, so it was the devil.
You must agree.
hmm
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No no sane person could obey such an order irrespective of who gives it, and according to what know about the way of God almighty, the order can only be from a devil.
then explain the rest of the verses from 37.103 onwards.
37.104 We called out to him "O Abraham!
37.105 "Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
37.106 For this was obviously a trial-
37.107 And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrificeFact is he was ready to do it, didn't refuse to do it and was stopped by God.
lets see what god says, who ordered the killing of the males.
002.049
And remember, We delivered you from the people of Pharaoh They set you hard tasks and punishments, slaughtered your sons and let your women-folk live; therein was a tremendous trial from your Lord.In so much of the quran God says "do not kill" or other words to this meaning-so who ordered the killing?
God really even though you have a quran , a very old quran, probably the oldest saying they refused to do the killing which i think to the majority is a Godly action.
Pharoe i remeber in one ayah is even called the devil, so it was the devil.
You must agree.
hmm
It's irrelevant and pharoah had nothing to do with Abraham anyway. What I answered was that you said he 'refused' and he didn't refuse, they were both willing.
peace
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Salam all
Abraham, father of Moses? Why, then, God uses a pseudonym for Moses = Ishmael (the one who hears?) Moses was the only one who heard? and Allah want's to play puzzle with us?? i don't think so... hmm
for me not logical ...
I also think that the 'command' to slay his son was misinterpreted by Abraham ( the whisperings of Shaitan) The sacrifice was'certainly not meant figuratively, but allegorical - God wanted Abraham to say that he shouldn't love his son very much (beside Allah) , he should 'sacrificed' him for Allah ..
My personal opinion )With the claim, that with the daughters were meant the two Malaika , I'm not agree too ...i.e. i can't follow the conclusion. Then yes, the Malaika would be clearly female, which contradicts the Quran , that says only unbelievers think that Malaika are female ...
Grammatically, my original proposal is possible or not? i mean that Abraham say here are my daughters, (or look here my daughters) are purer as you ( because they are not wrongdoers as you...)
thank you all
Salam peace -
No no sane person could obey such an order irrespective of who gives it,
Someone as strong in faith in God as Abraham and his son were would definitely do whatever God commanded them, even if it appears odd or wrong to your mind in this day and age. Is your faith in God strong enough to jump off a cliff if He told you to?
and according to what know about the way of God almighty, the order can only be from a devil.
I have thought about this since reading what you said here. The following verses I posted above show that it was from God not the devil, God would not praise and reward Abraham for being willing to follow the orders of the devil. It was a test of faith from God, which they passed.
peace
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Salam all
Abraham, father of Moses? Why, then, God uses a pseudonym for Moses = Ishmael (the one who hears?) Moses was the only one who heard? and Allah want's to play puzzle with us?? i don't think so... hmm
for me not logical ...strange or what that after the sacrifice we don't here about Ismail anymore in the quran!
The name was going to be Moses given to him by Pharoe afterwards, so he is simply just describe so you and me know who it was.
I also think that the 'command' to slay his son was misinterpreted by Abraham ( the whisperings of Shaitan) The sacrifice was'certainly not meant figuratively, but allegorical - God wanted Abraham to say that he shouldn't love his son very much (beside Allah) , he should 'sacrificed' him for Allah ..
My personal opinion )good point; now thinking about it i don't think sacrifice means slaughter at all, it can mean having to let him go, be taken by pharoe, to give a child to some whome you have brought up with love and care isn't very easy , it is heart breaking experience.
but he did give him up and brought up in pharoes palace to be a prince or something.
With the claim, that with the daughters were meant the two Malaika , I'm not agree too ...i.e. i can't follow the conclusion. Then yes, the Malaika would be clearly female, which contradicts the Quran , that says only unbelievers think that Malaika are female ...
Agree.
Grammatically, my original proposal is possible or not? i mean that Abraham say here are my daughters, (or look here my daughters) are purer as you ( because they are not wrongdoers as you...)
thank you all
Salam peacepeace
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Someone as strong in faith in God as Abraham and his son were would definitely do whatever God commanded them, even if it appears odd or wrong to your mind in this day and age. Is your faith in God strong enough to jump off a cliff if He told you to?
I have thought about this since reading what you said here. The following verses I posted above show that it was from God not the devil, God would not praise and reward Abraham for being willing to follow the orders of the devil. It was a test of faith from God, which they passed.
peace
So when you have a dream "Aysha, slaughter your son to show you are my dearest servent"
Please tell the voice to piss off.
Because it won't be God, i will vouch for you on judgment day.
handshake