Abraham offers his daughters to the wrongdoers?
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Peace All.
Something to ponder
Abraham Original Messenger of Islam
One of the prevalent myths is that Muhammad was the founder of Islam. Although Islam, total submission to God alone, is the only religion recognized by God since the time of Adam (319, 385), Abraham is reported in the Quran as the first user of the word "Islam" and the one who called us "Muslims" (227. Abraham's exemplary submission to God is demonstrated by his famous willingness to sacrifice his only son, Ismail, when he thought that was God's command. As it turns out, such a command was in fact from Satan.God Never Ordered Abraham to Sacrifice His Son
God is the Most Merciful. He never violates His own law (72. Any person who believes that the Most Merciful ordered Abraham to kill his son cannot possibly make it to God's Heaven. Such evil thought about God is grossly blasphemous. Nowhere in the Quran do we see that God ordered Abraham to kill his son. On the contrary, God intervened to save Abraham and Ismail from Satan's plot (37107), and He told Abraham "You believed the dream" (37105). Undoubtedly,it was a dream inspired by Satan. God's irrevocable law is "God never advocates sin" (72
Peace.
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Peace All.
Something to ponder
Abraham Original Messenger of Islam
One of the prevalent myths is that Muhammad was the founder of Islam. Although Islam, total submission to God alone, is the only religion recognized by God since the time of Adam (319, 385), Abraham is reported in the Quran as the first user of the word "Islam" and the one who called us "Muslims" (227. Abraham's exemplary submission to God is demonstrated by his famous willingness to sacrifice his only son, Ismail, when he thought that was God's command. As it turns out, such a command was in fact from Satan.God Never Ordered Abraham to Sacrifice His Son
God is the Most Merciful. He never violates His own law (72. Any person who believes that the Most Merciful ordered Abraham to kill his son cannot possibly make it to God's Heaven. Such evil thought about God is grossly blasphemous. Nowhere in the Quran do we see that God ordered Abraham to kill his son. On the contrary, God intervened to save Abraham and Ismail from Satan's plot (37107), and He told Abraham "You believed the dream" (37105). Undoubtedly,it was a dream inspired by Satan. God's irrevocable law is "God never advocates sin" (72
Peace.
"Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
For this was obviously a trial-
And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice
And We left (this blessing) for him among generations (to come) in later times
"Peace and salutation to Abraham!"
Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
For he was one of our believing Servants.So you claim God rewarded him for doing right in believing satan?
It was a trial from God, they passed the trial of faith and were rewarded as such for BELIEVING. It's not a case of believing God would say that to him as God had His own plan to stop him doing it anyway. No sin involved. If God tells you do it, you do it, whatever it is and THAT is what proved Abraham's faith.
as for
Any person who believes that the Most Merciful ordered Abraham to kill his son cannot possibly make it to God's Heaven. Such evil thought about God is grossly blasphemous.
it's not your place to be saying who will or will not enter heaven as by your claim here neither would Abraham or his son, as they DID believe it.peace
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Peace Ayisha.
Show where in Qoran God has ordered Abraham to kill his son?
Peace.
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Peace Ayisha.
Show where in Qoran God has ordered Abraham to kill his son?
Peace.
it doesn't, but it does show the reward for being willing to do it and that it was a trial they passed.
It doesn't say the son was Ishmail, but other verses relating to it imply it was.
Can you show me it was the devil?
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Peace Ayisha.
God does not break His own commandment- Thou shall not kill-.
I am saying it was a dream, God did not order him to kill his son!
What is not from God is from yourself/satan....
Peace.
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Salam
it doesn't, but it does show the reward for being willing to do it and that it was a trial they passed.
It doesn't say the son was Ishmail, but other verses relating to it imply it was.
Can you show me it was the devil?
"Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
For this was obviously a trial-
And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice
And We left (this blessing) for him among generations (to come) in later times
"Peace and salutation to Abraham!"
Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
For he was one of our believing Servants.So you claim God rewarded him for doing right in believing satan?
It was a trial from God, they passed the trial of faith and were rewarded as such for BELIEVING. It's not a case of believing God would say that to him as God had His own plan to stop him doing it anyway. No sin involved. If God tells you do it, you do it, whatever it is and THAT is what proved Abraham's faith.
as for it's not your place to be saying who will or will not enter heaven as by your claim here neither would Abraham or his son, as they DID believe it.
peace
1 Abraham had a dream
2. he see in the dream that he offered his son- see the translations37.102
Sahih International And when he reached with him exertion, he said, "O my son, indeed I have seen in a dream that I sacrifice you, so see what you think." He said, "O my father, do as you are commanded. You will find me, if Allah wills, of the steadfast."
Pickthall And when (his son) was old enough to walk with him, (Abraham) said O my dear son, I have seen in a dream that I must sacrifice thee. So look, what thinkest thou? He said O my father! Do that which thou art commanded. Allah willing, thou shalt find me of the steadfast.Yusuf Ali Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said "O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice Now see what is thy view!" (The son) said "O my father! Do as thou art commanded thou will find me, if Allah so wills one practising Patience and Constancy!"
Shakir And when he attained to working with him, he said O my son! surely I have seen in a dream that I should sacrifice you; consider then what you see. He said O my father! do what you are commanded; if Allah please, you will find me of the patient ones.
Muhammad Sarwar When his son was old enough to work with him, he said, "My son, I have had a dream that I must sacrifice you. What do you think of this?" He replied, "Father, fulfill whatever you are commanded to do and you will find me patient, by the will of God".
Mohsin Khan And, when he (his son) was old enough to walk with him, he said "O my son! I have seen in a dream that I am slaughtering you (offer you in sacrifice to Allah), so look what you think!" He said "O my father! Do that which you are commanded, Insha' Allah (if Allah will), you shall find me of As-Sabirin (the patient ones, etc.)."
Arberry and when he had reached the age of running with him, he said, 'My son, I see in a dream that I shall sacrifice thee; consider, what thinkest thou?' He said, 'My father, do as thou art bidden; thou shalt find me, God willing, one of the steadfast.'
(3710212)
adhbauka
sacrificing you, V ? 1st person singular imperfect verb
PRON ? 2nd person masculine singular object pronounWe see in the translations above, that the translators put the word 'must' or 'should' or 'shall' between the lines. the Quran states that Abraham see that he sacrified his son- imperfect , not that God order it! that is a big difference.
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he ask his son what he think about the dream- Abraham was not sure about the meaning of the dream for this he ask his son first. it was not a clear order from God!
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Ismael say that he should do what he see -also here the translators put 'command' why?
(3710215) http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=37&verse=102#(371021)
tar
you see." V ? 2nd person masculine singular imperfect verb -
Abraham listen to his son and try to sacrifice him
37.104-107 You have fulfilled the vision." Indeed, We thus reward the doers of good.
Indeed, this was the clear trial.
And We ransomed him with a great sacrifice,Fa-Dal-Ya = he gave a thing, ransom, purchase, he loosed him or set him free, mufadat - giving a man and taking a man in exchange, a collection.
Allah protect them from a big mistake- God see that Abraham and his son love him so much -the reward is for this love and RANSOME his son .
Salam peace
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Salam 357
The meaning of sacrifice in another article wasn't slaughter and seems to work
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13482.0
peace
sorry I can not see the connection.
In the link it speak about the word Baqara and its translation, not about slaughter or sacrificeBut anyway, the word sacrifice has i.e. in German different meanings = not slaughter.
Salam peace -
Salam
1 Abraham had a dream
2. he see in the dream that he offered his son- see the translations37.102
Sahih International And when he reached with him exertion, he said, "O my son, indeed I have seen in a dream that I sacrifice you, so see what you think." He said, "O my father, do as you are commanded. You will find me, if Allah wills, of the steadfast."
Pickthall And when (his son) was old enough to walk with him, (Abraham) said O my dear son, I have seen in a dream that I must sacrifice thee. So look, what thinkest thou? He said O my father! Do that which thou art commanded. Allah willing, thou shalt find me of the steadfast.Yusuf Ali Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said "O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice Now see what is thy view!" (The son) said "O my father! Do as thou art commanded thou will find me, if Allah so wills one practising Patience and Constancy!"
Shakir And when he attained to working with him, he said O my son! surely I have seen in a dream that I should sacrifice you; consider then what you see. He said O my father! do what you are commanded; if Allah please, you will find me of the patient ones.
Muhammad Sarwar When his son was old enough to work with him, he said, "My son, I have had a dream that I must sacrifice you. What do you think of this?" He replied, "Father, fulfill whatever you are commanded to do and you will find me patient, by the will of God".
Mohsin Khan And, when he (his son) was old enough to walk with him, he said "O my son! I have seen in a dream that I am slaughtering you (offer you in sacrifice to Allah), so look what you think!" He said "O my father! Do that which you are commanded, Insha' Allah (if Allah will), you shall find me of As-Sabirin (the patient ones, etc.)."
Arberry and when he had reached the age of running with him, he said, 'My son, I see in a dream that I shall sacrifice thee; consider, what thinkest thou?' He said, 'My father, do as thou art bidden; thou shalt find me, God willing, one of the steadfast.'
(3710212)
adhbauka
sacrificing you, V ? 1st person singular imperfect verb
PRON ? 2nd person masculine singular object pronounWe see in the translations above, that the translators put the word 'must' or 'should' or 'shall' between the lines. the Quran states that Abraham see that he sacrified his son- imperfect , not that God order it! that is a big difference.
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he ask his son what he think about the dream- Abraham was not sure about the meaning of the dream for this he ask his son first. it was not a clear order from God!
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Ismael say that he should do what he see -also here the translators put 'command' why?
(3710215) http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=37&verse=102#(371021)
tar
you see." V ? 2nd person masculine singular imperfect verb -
Abraham listen to his son and try to sacrifice him
37.104-107 You have fulfilled the vision." Indeed, We thus reward the doers of good.
Indeed, this was the clear trial.
And We ransomed him with a great sacrifice,Fa-Dal-Ya = he gave a thing, ransom, purchase, he loosed him or set him free, mufadat - giving a man and taking a man in exchange, a collection.
Allah protect them from a big mistake- God see that Abraham and his son love him so much -the reward is for this love and RANSOME his son .
Salam peace
How did God communicate anything with Abraham? Abraham had no book, he knew by visions, dreams.
You would rather have God paying a ransom to the devil to let Abraham off for believing the devil was God than look at the verses. He FULFILLED the vision, he passed the TRIAL. The sacrifice of the animal was left for future generations, so you would rather have it that GOD left that with us to remind us that Abraham followed the devil??
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Peace Ayisha.
Abraham passed the test for " checking" and not following blindly .
God would never order " Al- Fahishaa". He would never ask a command to be broken! Are you saying about God a "Blasphemy", like those before you did when they imply God " Sacrificed His son?
How could we ever contemplate that God would order Abraham to kill his son? Whether He will save him or not , God would never order him to break a commandment.
Peace.
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Peace Ayisha.
Abraham passed the test for " checking" and not following blindly .
and the verse reference for that is?Was he checking while he was laying his son on his forehead ready for sacrifice?
God would never order " Al- Fahishaa". He would never ask a command to be broken! Are you saying about God a "Blasphemy", like those before you did when they imply God " Sacrificed His son?
How could we ever contemplate that God would order Abraham to kill his son? Whether He will save him or not , God would never order him to break a commandment.
Peace.
What commandment? The commandments came AFTER this. You are making up things about God, I am quoting the verses which you don't seem able to explain apart from he was 'checking' and provide no reference for that claim at all.
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- Ismael say that he should do what he see -also here the translators put 'command' why?
(3710215) http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=37&verse=102#(371021)
Salamun alaiki, mirjamnur
You read it with word 15. Verb 20, passive says that.
Thereby, when he crossed over to the age of working-exercising effort-running with him, he-Iebra'heim said;
"O My dear child, it is a fact that I keep seeing in state of sleep that I am sacrificing you.
Therefore, you look into this as to what you perceive?"
He replied, "O my father, you act upon that which is being commanded to you. You will find me, Allah the Exalted so wills, in the state of the coolly perseverant".The answer is strikingly strange. Father mentioned observation in his sleeps. The Son calls it a Command-direction for father to do an act. The Son, did not consider the sleep as a passive state, but instead an active state of consciousness.
Thereby, they both agreed-surrendered to comply with the command of Allah the Exalted.
- Ismael say that he should do what he see -also here the translators put 'command' why?
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Peace Ayisha.
Are you saying Abraham did not follow the commandments?
Also what verses claim God order him to sacrifice his son?
As far as I know you have not quoted any verses justifying your claim.
Peace.
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Salam 357
sorry I can not see the connection.
In the link it speak about the word Baqara and its translation, not about slaughter or sacrificeBut anyway, the word sacrifice has i.e. in German different meanings = not slaughter.
Salam peaceThe word i was pointing to was "tathbahoo" which is in this ayah aswell which to my knowledge as in the example/link i gave doesn't mean slaughter/killing as you rightly said sacrifice doesn't mean killing, we can make sacrifice by doing away with something of great value to us.
Thanks.
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Peace Ayisha.
Are you saying Abraham did not follow the commandments?
I am saying the commandments, as in the commandments that Moses was given, did not exist. What Allah commanded him to do, he did.Also what verses claim God order him to sacrifice his son?
we did this one, that was when I asked you for the verses saying the devil did it as you claimed, then went to claim 'he checked' and still there were more questions I asked still unanswered.Quote from good logic on Today at 052354 PM
Peace Ayisha.Show where in Qoran God has ordered Abraham to kill his son?
Peace.
it doesn't, but it does show the reward for being willing to do it and that it was a trial they passed.
It doesn't say the son was Ishmail, but other verses relating to it imply it was.
Can you show me it was the devil?
As far as I know you have not quoted any verses justifying your claim.
Peace.
I did in my first reply to you, where again you failed to answer any questions.
37.105 "Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
37.106 For this was obviously a trial-
37.107 And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice
37.108 And We left (this blessing) for him among generations (to come) in later times
37.109"Peace and salutation to Abraham!"
37.110 Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
37.111 For he was one of our believing Servants.So now can you show me the verse that says the devil told him to do this and not Allah, and the verse that says he was rewarded for 'checking' and where it says he was 'checking', thank you.
peace -
Peace Ayisha.
Quote So now can you show me the verse that says the devil told him to do this and not Allah, and the verse that says he was rewarded for 'checking' and where it says he was 'checking', thank you.
You are claiming here that it is Allah who told him. Where is your evidence.
I said it could not have been God. I will you the following verse
They commit a gross sin, then say, "We found our parents doing this, and God has commanded us to do it." Say, "God never advocates sin. Are you saying about God what you do not know?"
God does not order Abraham to kill his son.
Then you say the commandments came after Abraham, I will answer
They said, "You have to be Jewish or Christian, to be guided." Say,
"We follow the religion of Abraham, he was never an idol worshipper."
Peace. -
Peace Ayisha.
Quote So now can you show me the verse that says the devil told him to do this and not Allah, and the verse that says he was rewarded for 'checking' and where it says he was 'checking', thank you.
You are claiming here that it is Allah who told him. Where is your evidence.
No, here I am asking you for proof of what YOU claim, but as again you have NOT I will again explain what I have a few times already.The verses I gave show that he was about to do it willingly, they both were, God stopped him and told him he had already fulfilled the vision, ie he had proved his faith, God blessed him for passing the TRIAL set for him. Read the verses and if you can somehow explain those verses to mean he was doing wrong by being willing to obey a command from satan and DISobeying God's commandment that had not yet come to him, then I would be very interested to read it. Also the bit about 'checking' too as Abraham had the son laid out for sacrifice, when did the 'checking' take place, what verse?
I said it could not have been God. I will you the following verse
They commit a gross sin, then say, "We found our parents doing this, and God has commanded us to do it." Say, "God never advocates sin. Are you saying about God what you do not know?"
So still you have Abraham obeying the devil and not God. I am showing you verses you cannot explain with your personal take on this, this was not something Abraham decided to do because his parents did, it was his vision.God does not order Abraham to kill his son.
Nor does the devil and God does tell him he passed a TRIAL, there would be no reward from God for following something the devil told him to do. They were willing, they passed the test, they were rewarded.Then you say the commandments came after Abraham, I will answer
They said, "You have to be Jewish or Christian, to be guided." Say,
"We follow the religion of Abraham, he was never an idol worshipper."
Peace.Doesn't say anything about not killing and the commandments did come after, the commandment of thou shalt not kill that you asked about.
The act of sacrificing the son, or being willing to do it, shows the strength of his complete and utter faith in God, and THAT is what we should be following, not some 'eww He wouldn't do that it's not nice' personal decision opposite to what is stated in the verses.
God smites, God destroys whole nations, God is THE ALL Powerful, Almighty Owner of everything, yes God is also THE Most Merciful, but His wrath has nothing like it. God tests, He sends trials of faith and that was the trial of Abraham's faith which he passed with flying colours, so yes, follow THAT faith of Abraham coz he didn't give a toss about anything else but what GOD wanted.
peace
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Peace Ayisha.
Let us try as per Qoran to sort this out. This is what I said
God Never Ordered Abraham to Sacrifice His Son
God is the Most Merciful. He never violates His own law (72. The Most Merciful did not ordered Abraham to kill his son. Such evil thought about God is grossly blasphemous. Nowhere in the Quran do we see that God ordered Abraham to kill his son. On the contrary, God intervened to save Abraham and his son from Satan's plot (37107), and He told Abraham "You believed the dream" (37105). Undoubtedly, it was a dream inspired by Satan. God's irrevocable law is "God never advocates sin" (72
Now bring your evidence that God order Abraham to kill his son.
Peace.
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Peace Ayisha.
Let us try as per Qoran to sort this out. This is what I said
God Never Ordered Abraham to Sacrifice His Son
God is the Most Merciful. He never violates His own law (72. The Most Merciful did not ordered Abraham to kill his son. Such evil thought about God is grossly blasphemous. Nowhere in the Quran do we see that God ordered Abraham to kill his son. On the contrary, God intervened to save Abraham and his son from Satan's plot (37107), and He told Abraham "You believed the dream" (37105). Undoubtedly, it was a dream inspired by Satan. God's irrevocable law is "God never advocates sin" (72
Now bring your evidence that God order Abraham to kill his son.
Peace.
so we start back at the beginning?
I have given it, go back and read again and while you're at it make notes so you can answer the questions I have been asking.
peace
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Peace Ayisha.
Oh no, no no ,sister. We are not going to be jumping about all over the place. We are going to establish one thing at a time.
Did God order Abraham to kill his son?
Now I clearly offered verse confirming" God never advocate sin"
Let us first clear this point , then move on.
Peace..
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Peace Ayisha.
Oh no, no no ,sister. We are not going to be jumping about all over the place. We are going to establish one thing at a time.
Did God order Abraham to kill his son?
Now I clearly offered verse confirming" God never advocate sin"
Let us first clear this point , then move on.
Peace..
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No, let's start with you explaining the verses I gave
37.105 "Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
37.106 For this was obviously a trial-
37.107 And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice
37.108 And We left (this blessing) for him among generations (to come) in later times
37.109"Peace and salutation to Abraham!"
37.110 Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
37.111 For he was one of our believing Servants.what vision, what trial?
peace