Abraham offers his daughters to the wrongdoers?
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according to you you've got God saying yayy you believed the vision from the devil, here's a huge pressie which will be remembered for generations to come and because of this believing the devil and preparing to follow what he said I will make you the best and tell people after you to follow you as you have the most faith........in the DEVIL??
Please THINK about it, read the verses and stop thinking this was last week or in the last 1400 years, it was THOUSANDS of years ago and long before God even gave ANY commandments!
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from your link of the christians who bash Islam site "And they did not submit (become muslims)" speaking of verse 37.103.
37.102 Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said "O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice Now see what is thy view!" (The son) said "O my father! Do as thou art commanded thou will find me, if Allah so wills one practising Patience and Constancy!"
37.103 So when they had both submitted their wills (to Allah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
according to your link if they did not submit none of the rest would happen, in fact if Abraham and his son didn't submit (become muslims) then half the Quran wouldn't be happening.
peace
If they do not submit, and we use the tashkent quran then it can be as follows.
peace
New Trans
And they did not submit and where sweating profusely and where afraid/cowardly and we did not oppose that,"O Abraham you have passed/cut/broken/crushed through the dream thus verily we reward the good doer's. Verily that is a trial the menifest and we oppose it not , the great sacrifice........",e.t.c(without present day grammer rules)
The above is only if you believe the Uthman Quran in Tashkent- as the current one is slightly different.
http//answering-islam.org/PQ/A4.htm#AppA4
Page #652
-In line #2 the ?original? of Q37103 has waw then mim-alif, while the modern version has fa-lam-mim-alif (see p. 67 of main text)
-In line #4 the ?original? of Q37105 is without sad which the modern version has, and it has alif while the modern version has ta.
-In line #6 the ?original? of the same aya is without nun while the modern version has nun.
-In line #7 while the ?original? of Q37106 is without waw the modern version has waw.
-In line #8 the ?original? (same aya) is without ba which the modern version has. -
There is no way a Messenger of God would offer his daughters for fornication. From someone upholding the law of God, would offer his daughters only through marriage.
Why make a mountain out of a molehill?!!
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So Abraham is the father of Moses and the rest of the story is all in the quran but has been chopped into pieces and told as different stories to my understanding.
Lot = man full of sympathy?????
Mind it is very interesting of what they have made the quran into!
Sorry to say my imam used to say those crowd of people who went to Abraham/lots house wanted the angels because they where so pretty , so for the wrong reasons.
Peace, different people and communities...
2243 and community Abraham and community Lot
There is no way a Messenger of God would offer his daughters for fornication. From someone upholding the law of God, would offer his daughters only through marriage.
Why make a mountain out of a molehill?!!
Different words...
1178 ... said O community these feminine? they purer for you...
37153 has He chosen the feminine/girls over the masculine/boys?2827 said indeed I want that marry you to any/one daughters (feminine dual) these two
6612 and Mary daughter Imran -
If they do not submit, and we use the tashkent quran then it can be as follows.
peace
New Trans
And they did not submit and where sweating profusely and where afraid/cowardly and we did not oppose that,"O Abraham you have passed/cut/broken/crushed through the dream thus verily we reward the good doer's. Verily that is a trial the menifest and we oppose it not , the great sacrifice........",e.t.cok, so the great sacrifice for not submitting (to Islam - as your last link to there was saying) was what? A sheep? and this great sacrifice of not submitting is left for future generations and made God claim Abraham a great believer.............for not submitting (to islam per your last link)
And the trial was what?
Trial. Reward for doing good. He was of the believers. Left for future generations to learn from. All these are mentioned so there was a bit more than sweating and being a coward going off, this was a HUGE MAJOR thing never before and never since, because from THIS act, Abraham is the father of Islam, the true in faith, the one who Muhammed was told to follow the religion of, so it wasn't a shaking wreck not submitting, it was a man with the greatest of faith in God who was willing to make the biggest sacrifice a human can for God.
Even if you fiddle with odd words you still come up with 'the great sacrifice'.
peace
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Hi....
I am not sure why people are so foreign to the idea that God demands things because he is God, and he can ask what he pleases, and that proving how faithful you are can mean breaking your own spirit for it (The Qur'an and the Bible have that tone to them for me anyways).
The concept of sacrifice is a very common aspect of all religions (and even as humans we dare others to prove their dedication by different measures), as a way to show your dedication do something that you can not stand doing....while giving out money seems noble, maybe God wants humans to demonstrate their detachment from their kids, and God repeatedly seems to imply that people are enslaved by their money and children, which are the measly pleasures of this fragile life (According to the Qur'an).
This concept that God only wants what is good, is so strange to me as an agnostic right now...., God repeatedly says things that may seem bad may turn out good, and vice versa....so these attempts to not face what the Qur'an is actually saying, is one of the things that really turns me off 'religious' people....most of them don't face what their holy book actually demands as long as it makes them feel comfortable. No conviction is the word.
I think because I am a homosexual and was pointed out as devil possessed from a very young age, it made me realize how people feel completely ok, picking on things that they personally have no problem with, and claim they are holy for it...and then compromise everything that would make them feel a tinge of guilt...because what they see as good is Godly to them.
And Lut's story the one that upsets you, is basically the verse stamped on my forehead.
Anyways...my opinion.
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ok, so the great sacrifice for not submitting (to Islam - as your last link to there was saying) was what? A sheep? and this great sacrifice of not submitting is left for future generations and made God claim Abraham a great believer.............for not submitting (to islam per your last link)
And the trial was what?
Trial. Reward for doing good. He was of the believers. Left for future generations to learn from. All these are mentioned so there was a bit more than sweating and being a coward going off, this was a HUGE MAJOR thing never before and never since, because from THIS act, Abraham is the father of Islam, the true in faith, the one who Muhammed was told to follow the religion of, so it wasn't a shaking wreck not submitting, it was a man with the greatest of faith in God who was willing to make the biggest sacrifice a human can for God.
Even if you fiddle with odd words you still come up with 'the great sacrifice'.
peace
He had to sacrifice his son - that is the trial.
Simply on the say so of someone, depart from him permanently, can you depart from your son permanently, i don't think so you would probably stand up againsts it as he did.Abraham brought him up and of course loved him dearly - now can you simply give him up?No.
So he stood his ground,no he said as the order was evil so he couldn't do it - that is a trial.Him refusing a permenent seperation because of the love he had for his son - he won Gods aproval, "well done Abraham, you have acted rightly,indeed,you have acted on the side of love, in the face of fear and for this you will be well known in history"
God=love.
It was sacrifice azeem - can anybody give up their son/act evil, permanently, on the say so of someone for fear of consequances? some will out of fear and he didn't as he showed symphathy and love for his son.
Just try taking even the child of an animal, the animal will come to you with its horns up your back,feircly to protect it.
wouldn't it be similer for a human being?
peace
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Peace, different people and communities...
2243 and community Abraham and community Lot
Different words...
The community of the righteous man or the community of the sympathetic man - You can talk about a person being righteous and sympathetic also or you can say rigtheous is a name and sympathetic is a name - so becomes two people.
peace
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He had to sacrifice his son - that is the trial.
Simply on the say so of someone, depart from him permanently, can you depart from your son permanently, i don't think so you would probably stand up againsts it as he did.Abraham brought him up and of course loved him dearly - now can you simply give him up?No.
So he stood his ground,no he said as the order was evil so he couldn't do it - that is a trial.Him refusing a permenent seperation because of the love he had for his son - he won Gods aproval, "well done Abraham, you have acted rightly,indeed,you have acted on the side of love, in the face of fear and for this you will be well known in history"
God=love.
It was sacrifice azeem - can anybody give up their son/act evil, permanently, on the say so of someone for fear of consequances? some will out of fear and he didn't as he showed symphathy and love for his son.
Just try taking even the child of an animal, the animal will come to you with its horns up your back,feircly to protect it.
wouldn't it be similer for a human being?
peace
You are flailing around in the dark grabbing at anything rather than look at the verses.
37.100 "O my Lord! Grant me a righteous (son)!"
37.101 So We gave him the good news of a boy ready to suffer and forbear.
37.102 Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said "O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice Now see what is thy view!" (The son) said "O my father! Do as thou art commanded thou will find me, if Allah so wills one practising Patience and Constancy!"God gave him this son in his old age, yes of course he loved him. ANY parent protects their child, that is no test or trial. God doesn't test your love for your children, He tests your love for HIM.
37.103 So when they had both submitted their wills (to Allah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
37.104 We called out to him "O Abraham!
37.105 "Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right.The test was would he sacrifice this son that God gave him, for God. Would he show, would they both show their love for God was MORE than the ultimate human love, the love for a child.
He passed that test and that is why he was rewarded and that is why he was one of the believing servants
37.110 Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
37.111 For he was one of our believing Servants.You don't prove to God that you are one of His believing servants by protecting your children, you prove it by being prepared to sacrifice that child FOR God, you choose God over your child, the one that God has given you.
He was prepared to do that and that is why he was rewarded.
It's all very well saying God is love and yes He is, but God is also the one who rained fire and brimstone onto nations and totally destroyed them for going against Him, He is the most powerful and we are told fear Him because without Him we are nothing and only to Him we submit, not to our desires or our children. What He gives He takes away in an instant.
51.56 I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me.
Standing in front of your child to stop a bullet hitting them, sacrificing yourself for your child is not trial, no test, any parent would do that. Sacrificing your child for God IS a test.
peace
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The community of the righteous man or the community of the sympathetic man - You can talk about a person being righteous and sympathetic also or you can say rigtheous is a name and sympathetic is a name - so becomes two people.
peace
Peace 357,
It is clear from context that they are not the same persons...
2242 and if deny you so surely denied before them community Noah and Aad and Thamud
2243 and community Abraham and community Lot683 and these Our case We gave it Abraham on/over his community raise degrees from We willed indeed your Lord Wise Knowing
684 and We gave to him Isaac and Jacob each We guided and Noah We guided from before and from his descendants David and Solomon and Job and Joseph and Moses and Aaron and like that We reward the good doers
685 and Zakariyya and Yaya and Isa and Elias each from the righteous
686 and Ismail and Elisha and Jonah and Lot and each We favored on/over the creations1174 so when left about Abraham the fright and reached him the good news he pleaded/disputed in/concerning community Lot
1175 indeed Abraham surely forbearing imploring penitent
1176 O Abraham turn away about this one indeed it hence comes directive your Lord and indeed they comes to them punishment not repelled
1177 and when came Our messengers to Lot distressed in/concerning them and straitened in/concerning them uneasy and said this one day difficult
1178 and approached him his community rushing to him and from before they were they doing the evil deeds said O community these feminine/girls they purer for you so fear The God and not disgrace me in my guests is not from you a man rational? -
You are flailing around in the dark grabbing at anything rather than look at the verses.
Not at all i believe my self 100% because God taught me to reason, sorry sis but you are keeping to the original beliefs without any weight to reason,as i see it, but that your privalage.
37.100 "O my Lord! Grant me a righteous (son)!"
37.101 So We gave him the good news of a boy ready to suffer and forbear.
37.102 Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said "O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice Now see what is thy view!" (The son) said "O my father! Do as thou art commanded thou will find me, if Allah so wills one practising Patience and Constancy!"Traditional belief - without changing an iota. brickwall peace
God gave him this son in his old age, yes of course he loved him. ANY parent protects their child, that is no test or trial. God doesn't test your love for your children, He tests your love for HIM.
Love for children is love for God - don't you realise , Love is love, that is how you should show your love , and not by saying to the empty air i love you. To show your love for God Almighty you need to care for his Righteous creation.
And not like you or anyone else going to the kaaba and talking to a brickwal or talking to empty air saying i love you.
37.103 So when they had both submitted their wills (to Allah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
37.104 We called out to him "O Abraham!
37.105 "Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right.your traditional translation , ah well good luck.
The test was would he sacrifice this son that God gave him, for God. Would he show, would they both show their love for God was MORE than the ultimate human love, the love for a child.
i see to murder your son is to show his love, well you try that anywhere and see the consequances - most like the good people around you will hang you.........
He passed that test and that is why he was rewarded and that is why he was one of the believing servants
let me the first to say.....keep it up you will be rewarded for it by God himself no doubt, but i i think i give up.
37.110 Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
37.111 For he was one of our believing Servants.You don't prove to God that you are one of His believing servants by protecting your children, you prove it by being prepared to sacrifice that child FOR God, you choose God over your child, the one that God has given you.
He was prepared to do that and that is why he was rewarded.
It's all very well saying God is love and yes He is, but God is also the one who rained fire and brimstone onto nations and totally destroyed them for going against Him, He is the most powerful and we are told fear Him because without Him we are nothing and only to Him we submit, not to our desires or our children. What He gives He takes away in an instant.
51.56 I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me.
Standing in front of your child to stop a bullet hitting them, sacrificing yourself for your child is not trial, no test, any parent would do that. Sacrificing your child for God IS a test.
That is the trial, and not murdering the innocents but saving them.
peace
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Not at all i believe my self 100% because God taught me to reason, sorry sis but you are keeping to the original beliefs without any weight to reason,as i see it, but that your privalage.
Traditional belief - without changing an iota. brickwall peaceTraditional belief? I am looking at the verses in Quran and what they say.
And not like you or anyone else going to the kaaba and talking to a brickwal or talking to empty air saying i love you.
your traditional translation , ah well good luck.
No idea what that is about ???i see to murder your son is to show his love, well you try that anywhere and see the consequances - most like the good people around you will hang you.........
he didn't murder his son though did he, God stopped him.let me the first to say.....keep it up you will be rewarded for it by God himself no doubt, but i i think i give up.
because you have no argument of any base in those verses.That is the trial, and not murdering the innocents but saving them.
peace
So not killing people is a trial? Well I've managed that quite well all these years, so have many others without any difficulty, so where is the trial in that?
being prepared to do something outrageous that God asks is the trial, not doing something that everyone manages to do anyway.
You managed to fiddle with translations of the odd verse in there but you cannot explain the rest to match your way no matter how hard you try. You are following your own desires here as you don't want to believe what is actually said in those verses, that the trial of his sincere devotion to God, the trial he passed and was rewarded for and we as future generations are left with, was that he was prepared to sacrifice his only son for God.
37.107 And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice
37.108 And We left (this blessing) for him among generations (to come) in later timesDo you think this killing of an animal was something new at this time, that was what God left us with? People had been sacrificing animals to God for years, that was nothing new as a blessing to leave to us.
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37.107 And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice
37.108 And We left (this blessing) for him among generations (to come) in later timesAlthough the sacrifice wasn't made by him, he couldn't do it as he loved his son so very much , but somebody else did after he was taken away do you know who? yes
Let me test you - what is the ransom God paid for the momentous sacrifice which was then made?
handshake
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Salam Mazhar
Salamun alaiki, mirjamnur
You read it with word 15. Verb 20, passive says that.
Thereby, when he crossed over to the age of working-exercising effort-running with him, he-Iebra'heim said;
"O My dear child, it is a fact that I keep seeing in state of sleep that I am sacrificing you.
Therefore, you look into this as to what you perceive?"
He replied, "O my father, you act upon that which is being commanded to you. You will find me, Allah the Exalted so wills, in the state of the coolly perseverant".The answer is strikingly strange. Father mentioned observation in his sleeps. The Son calls it a Command-direction for father to do an act. The Son, did not consider the sleep as a passive state, but instead an active state of consciousness.
Thereby, they both agreed-surrendered to comply with the command of Allah the Exalted.
you say it Ibrahim understand the dream of his father as a command. He assumed that the dream has to come from God.
which leads to the fact that Abraham by himself indicated the dream in this way. But does this mean that it was really from God?Ayisha sorry, my internet was not working well... so goodlogic answers for me. Thank you
Salams -
Salam 357
The word i was pointing to was "tathbahoo" which is in this ayah aswell which to my knowledge as in the example/link i gave doesn't mean slaughter/killing as you rightly said sacrifice doesn't mean killing, we can make sacrifice by doing away with something of great value to us.
Thanks.
o.k ! ) i discuss this topic before with a brother of faith and he writes an article about slaughter/sacrifice
see herehttp//quransmessage.com/articles/thakaytum%20FM3.htm and here http//quransmessage.com/articles/slaughtering%20of%20animals%20-%20the%20correct%20method%20of%20sacrifice%20FM3.htm
thank you and salam -
Salam Ayisha
He had a vision/dream, he fulfilled it, completed it and was rewarded for it. Would God reward him for completing a trial the devil set him?
Please try to answer that.
he was not rewarded with the bull (sacrifice) of Allah. It was a ransom, this means it was a possibility to amends his fault by slaughtering and distributing the meat.
Salam peace -
Salam
Ayisha yes sorry, i make a big mistake, sure Lot 's daughters - not Abrahams ) oSalam Noon
Peace, different people and communities...
2243 and community Abraham and community Lot
Different words...
1178 ... said O community these feminine? they purer for you...
37153 has He chosen the feminine/girls over the masculine/boys?2827 said indeed I want that marry you to any/one daughters (feminine dual) these two
6612 and Mary daughter ImranSo this is interesting.
this would mean that the word banat/ banaty should translated as female / feminin unlike Abnat/ abnaty = the daughter / two daughters?
This would let the sentence simple as Here are but WOMEN / daughters, take them (for married and intercourse) and not men.
I understand this right?Thank you for your post ) Salam -
Quote from Mazhar on October 28, 2012, 011133 PM
Salamun alaiki, mirjamnurYou read it with word 15. Verb 20, passive says that.
Thereby, when he crossed over to the age of working-exercising effort-running with him, he-Iebra'heim said;
"O My dear child, it is a fact that I keep seeing in state of sleep that I am sacrificing you.
Therefore, you look into this as to what you perceive?"
He replied, "O my father, you act upon that which is being commanded to you. You will find me, Allah the Exalted so wills, in the state of the coolly perseverant".The answer is strikingly strange. Father mentioned observation in his sleeps. The Son calls it a Command-direction for father to do an act. The Son, did not consider the sleep as a passive state, but instead an active state of consciousness.
Thereby, they both agreed-surrendered to comply with the command of Allah the Exalted.
you say it Ibrahim understand the dream of his father as a command. He assumed that the dream has to come from God.
which leads to the fact that Abraham by himself indicated the dream in this way. But does this mean that it was really from God?He is father. Son is giving his perception about that which his father keep seeing in dream.
The basis of dream interpretation is to identify important dream symbols and look for the concept. Father told him that he keep seeing that he is sacrificing him.
Once the son is sacrificed even in the dream, the same dream will not appear next time that he is sacrificing him. On the contrary the same dream keeps reappearing. That indicated him the concept, that it is a command which is not yet carried out and is being reiterated.Further information in following Ayat clarifies that it was a command by Allah the Exalted.
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We all sacrifice our children when we gratefully accept that they are not ours but God's. That it is a trust ana an honour to be the means whereby He furthers and sustain His Creation. Our children are not our posession or property but a means to acknowledge God and worship Him.
Salaam