The God of the Quran is a Fact
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Peace however aren't there, in fact, many realities and many truths - truth is in the eye of the beholder and reality is a social construct (anyone who has studied sociology understands this) - a Hell's Angel gang member sees reality very differently from a Hottentot Bushman and they both perceive reality differently from a New Zealand farmgirl! Likewise their are many truths and all of them can be equally valid - think of the common example about witnesses to an accident who all give varying accounts of what they saw. The reason that there can be many realities is that reality is subjective - we view the world through the lense of our own experiences, prejudices and assumptions. So people may all have different perceptions of the One God and different interpretations of Quranic verses but this may be appropriate to the experiences and guidancfor each individual.
Peace Lena,
This proves that GOD is the Truth, and that He revives the dead, and that He is Omnipotent.
According to Islam there is only one God and God is the truth so therefore there is only one truth.
While there may be different perpectives there can be only one true perpective.
For instance, your analogy of an accident having many perpectives is accurate but there is only "one accident."
Only one thing happened, but because of angles, timing, mood, prejudices, eyesight, we see the one incident differently.Peace O0
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OK.
Do you know the saying that one can reject without proof what is claimed without proof?
Sure, the saying is very reasonable, especially if there would be no negative impact by rejecting a theory that turned out to be true. The thing is that questions and ideas are what drive human discovery, rejecting is only reasonable when you have proven something to be false.
I personally believe that its unreasonable to reject without proof, but I do find it reasonable to not care about a theory because there is no proof.
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Sure, the saying is very reasonable, especially if there would be no negative impact by rejecting a theory that turned out to be true.
A theory? Who is talking about a theory?
The thing is that questions and ideas are what drive human discovery, rejecting is only reasonable when you have proven something to be false.
That is why we have this word reasonable. And the word sensible. Or the expression common sense. If you claim you can fly I will reject that until you provide proof. I do NOT first need to prove that to be wrong to be able to reject it.
I personally believe that its unreasonable to reject without proof, but I do find it reasonable to not care about a theory because there is no proof.
If you believe anything and everything it is called gullible. If that's what you are, good luck.
Again the word theory. What does it do here? If you don't care about my theory why MSchumacher will leave Formula 1 this year I can understand why you would want to ignore it However, not caring about scientific theories is a different story altogether as they are based on facts and evidence, so ignoring that would be ignorant.Conclusion make only claims which have substance.
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A theory? Who is talking about a theory?
That is why we have this word reasonable. And the word sensible. Or the expression common sense. If you claim you can fly I will reject that until you provide proof. I do NOT first need to prove that to be wrong to be able to reject it.
If you believe anything and everything it is called gullible. If that's what you are, good luck.
Again the word theory. What does it do here? If you don't care about my theory why MSchumacher will leave Formula 1 this year I can understand why you would want to ignore it However, not caring about scientific theories is a different story altogether as they are based on facts and evidence, so ignoring that would be ignorant.Conclusion make only claims which have substance.
Actually, I don't believe in anything without proof, and I don't reject things without proof either. I am humble enough to say that I don't know the answer to that question, if I don't have substantial proof to say no definitively. I did look at what we were talking about in terms of choosing to reject something, and I will agree that you can reject whatever you want to reject. See the thing is that I can never be proven wrong if I choose not to reject or accept something because I feel that the facts aren't sufficient enough to merit a conclusive decision. On the other hand, you clearly feel that a decision must always be made, even prematurely, because you are a child that can't accept not knowing the answer to something.
Let me tell you the reality of life since you're so self-assured of yourself. The reality is that truth is a journey not a destination, and if you think you've arrived at the truth then you are simply a fool. Those who think they arrived at the truth, are often the same individuals who try to assert their authority over the "truth", in order to control the masses. They try to ridicule those that offer different perspectives because they are afraid of losing their power, and are afraid of being made to look like a fool. True wisdom is reaching the point in your life where you recognize that the truth doesn't have a destination. The lazy person gives up at this point, because the lazy person needs a destination. The wise person keeps walking, because he knows that the more he learns the better he will understand.
The truth doesn't care if you reject it or not, because your rejection has no impact on its reality and state of being. Admitting that there are some things that you will never know the answer to, will actually demonstrate your wisdom versus throwing an answer out there because you feel that an answer must be provided.
Conclusion I don't make claims, I throw out ideas, and people can do what they want with those ideas. O0
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Actually, I don't believe in anything without proof, and I don't reject things without proof either. I am humble enough to say that I don't know the answer to that question, if I don't have substantial proof to say no definitively. I did look at what we were talking about in terms of choosing to reject something, and I will agree that you can reject whatever you want to reject. See the thing is that I can never be proven wrong if I choose not to reject or accept something because I feel that the facts aren't sufficient enough to merit a conclusive decision. On the other hand, you clearly feel that a decision must always be made, even prematurely, because you are a child that can't accept not knowing the answer to something.
Let me tell you the reality of life since you're so self-assured of yourself. The reality is that truth is a journey not a destination, and if you think you've arrived at the truth then you are simply a fool. Those who think they arrived at the truth, are often the same individuals who try to assert their authority over the "truth", in order to control the masses. They try to ridicule those that offer different perspectives because they are afraid of losing their power, and are afraid of being made to look like a fool. True wisdom is reaching the point in your life where you recognize that the truth doesn't have a destination. The lazy person gives up at this point, because the lazy person needs a destination. The wise person keeps walking, because he knows that the more he learns the better he will understand.
The truth doesn't care if you reject it or not, because your rejection has no impact on its reality and state of being. Admitting that there are some things that you will never know the answer to, will actually demonstrate your wisdom versus throwing an answer out there because you feel that an answer must be provided.
Conclusion I don't make claims, I throw out ideas, and people can do what they want with those ideas. O0
Some I agree, some I don't.
I am here to learn what Muslims say about their own religion. Because I don't know.
Oh no, you have me wrong! I am not self-assured about everything. I have some knowledge and I have some belief. The rest I don't know.
I ridicule those who should know better. I criticise those who are ignorant and don't change. I have made up my mind about some things and am completely open to others.
Haha, you need to be more consistent! Saying "reality is that truth is a journey not a destination" and then stating that "I don't make claims" is a bit of a contradiction. But no problem, I understand what you are saying.
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If you define reality as "truth manifested", why does it follow that god is reality. That is a claim which requires proof. Which is impossible.
God is not reality. Reality is God.
"God" is defined as "truth manifested" according to the quran. This is done so by definition; proof is not required for setting definitions.
When the quran talks about "Allah", just replace the word "Allah" with "the Universe", literally."Allah" or "God" is
-"physical truth"
-"objective reality"
-"the universe"
-"existence"
-"the sum of every proton, electron, neutron, photon right now"Allah = truth manifested
truth manifested = reality
reality = universe/multiverse/existenceThat is my current view.. there might be a hole in my logic... peace
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When the quran talks about "Allah", just replace the word "Allah" with "the Universe", literally.
Lord OF the Universe?
He made things with truth which is why I can grasp that He is the truth manifested.
I don't understand how He is the universe??? He never gives this attribute to Himself. Please explain.
Peace! yay
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Lord OF the Universe?
He made things with truth which is why I can grasp that He is the truth manifested.
I don't understand how He is the universe??? He never gives this attribute to Himself. Please explain.
Peace! yay
Wow, you are absolutely right. I can't believe I missed that
"Existence" alone would make a more correct replacement than the "The Universe"Thank you so much for pointing this out!!
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Exactly.That's why I call it personal perception. Do you know the perception dilemma? Two people are standing on opposite hills and in the middle is a house. Both people are asked what they see. A blue house. A red house. Both were right because the house was painted one colour on each side.
Exactly!!!!! )
So even though both were right, each according to their personal perception based on location, we see that the truth requires careful definition and is not to be used lightly. Exactly!! )
OK, so how about the opposite? If you ask people whether the moon is made from green cheese, we will get an overwhelming majority say no. If we send a probe and take a sample we have established a fact and the truth the moon is not made of blue cheese. But that is all we have done. The only truth we have established is something the moon is not.
So we need a lot of work before we can confidently say that is it!
BTW a person living in KL will not know snow and might not have a word for it, so your example with snow is better, as I think EVERY tribe has a word for moon ) YES, YES, YES!!You have now opened new problems what are the definitions for perception and opinion and how do these apply to snow, a moon and a god?
bravo
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Some I agree, some I don't.
I am here to learn what Muslims say about their own religion. Because I don't know.
Oh no, you have me wrong! I am not self-assured about everything. I have some knowledge and I have some belief. The rest I don't know.
I ridicule those who should know better. I criticise those who are ignorant and don't change. I have made up my mind about some things and am completely open to others.
Haha, you need to be more consistent! Saying "reality is that truth is a journey not a destination" and then stating that "I don't make claims" is a bit of a contradiction. But no problem, I understand what you are saying.
Listen clown,
I know I told you that I'm throwing out an idea/concept, that's not the same as claiming a truth, or saying "This is a fact". So, maybe you shouldn't pull my statements out of context. Additionally, before you decide to throw my discussion title back at me I told you earlier that the title was designed to stimulate thought on the idea I was presenting. Instead of being a clown, consider the idea, and if you have proof that there is no merit to what I'm saying, then outline your rebuttal. You know exactly what I'm talking about, but you're clearly more interested in clowning around instead of considering new ideas. If you think there is something to an idea, take that idea, develop it, and see if you can take it to the next level If not, so be it.
So you ridicule those who know better, what exactly do I know better? I don't recall meeting you recently!? I've been operating on less than two hours of sleep a day for the last week because of work, I had this idea, and I threw it out there. I'm very capable of arguing my point, if I wanted to write a scholarly paper, I would have, and I would have blown your mind. Instead, I'm on a forum presenting an idea, that I wanted to share with others on this site.
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God is not reality. Reality is God.
"God" is defined as "truth manifested" according to the quran. This is done so by definition; proof is not required for setting definitions.
When the quran talks about "Allah", just replace the word "Allah" with "the Universe", literally."Allah" or "God" is
-"physical truth"
-"objective reality"
-"the universe"
-"existence"
-"the sum of every proton, electron, neutron, photon right now"Allah = truth manifested
truth manifested = reality
reality = universe/multiverse/existenceThat is my current view.. there might be a hole in my logic... peace
Is your definition of a god a physical being? If not, the "truth" can't really be physical.
Objective? That would make it real, factual, observable as in able to be seen, heard, touched, smelled, tasted, etcetcetc
If your definition makes god = Universe, why not call it Universe then? Why should we change a name everyone understand?
The same goes for existence. I exist and I'm not a god.
The sum of everything = 0. Is your god = 0?Manifested is physical. Is that correct for your definition of a god?
What is truth manifested? Can you tell me the opposite? Truth non-manifested? Truth spiritual? Doesn't make any sense to me.
It can't be reality because that would make my reality different from your and everybody else's.Sorry, but I can't find a lot of compelling arguments here.
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Sorry, but I can't find a lot of compelling arguments here.
Peace StopS,
That is because you don't think. Deaf, dumb and blind, they will not understand.
It's so obvious that your mind is closed. You choose to not reason. People have made themselves quite clear here.
1736 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and heart, all these you are responsible for.
Why don't you actually read something and thoroughly study it before making conclusions without putting in any effort to understand? If you don't actually consider and test theories, then you are just guessing. Even scientists and 'reasonable people' do so. Why can't you?
Peace.
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Hey zulf81,
I really enjoyed your posts in which you share your take on things. They match, to a high degree, my own ideas. It was very interesting to read!
bravoOne tip don't let your mind pull you into automatic emotional reactions to people's replies on this forum. It seems you are quite a sensitive and deep thinking character, with a relatively hot temperament which you strive to control with finesse and manners. You'll find plenty of people with whom you can easily have eternal debates back and forth. Just let it go. Don't let your mind and emotions drive you mad, uselessly. Don't brickwall.
Just a friendly advice.And I'm looking forward to read more of your ideas!
Peace!
Zulf -
Peace StopS,
That is because you don't think.
If you make a claim like this, would you kindly provide proof? As it stands, you are just embarrassing yourself by making unsubstantiated and wild claims.
Deaf, dumb and blind, they will not understand.
So only someone who agrees with you can Hear, speak and see? Isn't that a bit close minded?
It's so obvious that your mind is closed.
At some point you need to take a stand or you change your mind every few seconds. If I tell you Thor is the only god will you believe me? No, so your mind is closed regarding Thor. Ooops, you are close-minded.
You choose to not reason.
Would you care to prove that?
People have made themselves quite clear here.
Maybe others have, you have not.
Why don't you actually read something
Suggest something.
and thoroughly study it before making conclusions without putting in any effort to understand?
Please show me how much effort in what unit I need to put in per conclusion. Thanks.
If you don't actually consider and test theories, then you are just guessing.
If you bring forward a valid theory I will consider and test it too. If not, I won't. I don't guess, unless you can prove where I did, you just look childish and supercilious.
Even scientists and 'reasonable people' do so. Why can't you?
How would you of all people know what scientists or "reasonable people" do?
Now either come up with a valid argument which contributes something or stop bugging me. Thanks. Oh and peace.
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If you make a claim like this, would you kindly provide proof? Yes, please scroll down.
So only someone who agrees with you can Hear, speak and see? Isn't that a bit close minded? That quote was from the Quran. 2171 And the example of those who disbelieve is like one who repeats what he has heard of calls and cries; deaf, dumb, and blind, they do not comprehend.
At some point you need to take a stand or you change your mind every few seconds. If I tell you Thor is the only god will you believe me? No, so your mind is closed regarding Thor. Ooops, you are close-minded.
Open minded doesn't mean naive. Please take a look at a dictionary.
Suggest something.
The Quran.
Please show me how much effort in what unit I need to put in per conclusion. Thanks.
At least read it thoroughly twice, without asking others about it. Read it for just yourself, by yourself.
How would you of all people know what scientists or "reasonable people" do?
School?
Now either come up with a valid argument which contributes something or stop bugging me.
Ok.
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What is the nature of God? / Re The Challenge Yet To Be Met
? on October 17, 2012, 044712 PM ?
Reading the articles linked above was far too involved and consisted in a huge amount of text without any structure or logics, so I abandoned it. Without wanting to sound arrogant there is a much easier way of looking at the problem.
I liked the way that "neo" explained it using quantum states, but why not use an everyday example?I don't understand why you just couldn't read it. And if you couldn't read it, then read the Quran.
In your post before, you ask
In Islam we get the dichotomy of believing and not believing.
The result of being good or not good is irrelevant, but believing in one god and that there is a messenger determines whether a person gets to spend eternity in a place of reward or punishment.
The place of reward is called heaven and the place of punishment is called hell.
As far as I know, no Islamic literature specifies what exactly humans do in heaven. We learn that all humans are resurrected and then sent to heaven if they pass the criteria. But then what? After having sex, eating and drinking, what do people do? Do I get a new PlayStation? What if a child who died 20,000 years ago sees me playing Flight Simulator XXII on a 75" flatscreen TV? Will everyone have the same level of knowledge? Will everyone speak the same language?
Or are heaven and hell to be understood as metaphors?People answered
General Issues / Questions / Re What is the language in heaven?
? on November 05, 2012, 105825 AM ?
Quote from newform on November 04, 2012, 021532 PM
Perhaps one day God willing you'll find that the language in heaven has been in your heart all along.
You replied
My heart has developed into a muscle pumping blood. Nothing else it can do. Languages are stored in my brain - which ceases functioning when we die.
It just occurred to me now that maybe we will be zombies without brain or speech anyway.Definition of heart heart
Use Heart in a sentence Originheart
Show IPA
noun
1.
Anatomy . a hollow, pumplike organ of blood circulation, composed mainly of rhythmically contractile smooth muscle, located in the chest between the lungs and slightly to the left and consisting of four chambers a right atrium that receives blood returning from the body via the superior and inferior vena cavae, a right ventricle that pumps the blood through the pulmonary artery to the lungs for oxygenation, a left atrium that receives the oxygenated blood via the pulmonary veins and passes it through the mitral valve, and a left ventricle that pumps the oxygenated blood, via the aorta, throughout the body.
2.
Zoology .
a.
the homologous structure in other vertebrates, consisting of four chambers in mammals and birds and three chambers in reptiles and amphibians.
b.
the analogous contractile structure in invertebrate animals, as the tubular heart of the spider and earthworm.
3.
the center of the total personality, especially with reference to intuition, feeling, or emotion In your heart you know I'm an honest man.
4.
the center of emotion, especially as contrasted to the head as the center of the intellect His head told him not to fall in love, but his heart had the final say.
5.
capacity for sympathy; feeling; affection His heart moved him to help the needy.Someone else answered
Please read the followinghttp//www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/where-do-you-go-from-here/
What is certain is that we all die and go back to the creator.
Did you read it? You only replied
Maybe YOU are certain. Hardly anyone agrees with you, but I understand that is your opinion.
So I guess you are the majority on earth since ?hardly anyone agrees with him??
Peace Stop S,
According to you, you are antithiest, you do not believe in God.
So if according to you there is no God, then there is no heaven
therefore there is no language in heaven. That is "your answer"
according to your beliefs.According to Quran heaven and hell are allegorical.
You said
Let's get some definitions to see if that clarifies things.Theist = believes there is evidence for the existence of god.
Atheist = does NOT believe there is evidence for the existence of god.
Ant-Theist = does not require a god or wish there was a god.And also If heaven and hell are allegorical, is the threat real of punishing non-believers or humans who sin?
What stops me from ignoring the threats made in the Koran if they are merely allegorical?First of all theist
Originthe?ism
Show IPA
noun
1.
the belief in one God as the creator and ruler of the universe, without rejection of revelation ( distinguished from deism).
2.
belief in the existence of a god or gods ( opposed to atheism).Atheist atheist
Origina?the?ist
Show IPA
noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.Anti-theist antitheist
Antitheist
An`ti*the"ist, n. A disbeliever in the existence of God.Also, you can ignore any threat you want from God, but at least research thoroughly through studying whether the threat may be real or not. Read the Quran and think. Don't just take our words for it.
Someone posted
Re What is the language in heaven?
? Reply #12 on November 06, 2012, 085834 AM ?Quote
Quote from StopS on November 03, 2012, 043654 PM
In Islam we get the dichotomy of believing and not believing.The result of being good or not good is irrelevant, but believing in one god and that there is a messenger determines whether a person gets to spend eternity in a place of reward or punishment.
I'm sorry, but i would like to note that Faith without work is useless, it is not just your belief, it is your good works that count also.
Being Good is VERY relevant in this case.
Faith Without Good Work is Useless!
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM8rt6hbxroRecommended readings
The Original purpose of our creation
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603282.0
God's System of Righteousness (The Reward system for those who are Nice/Benevolent)
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602900
God's Systems of Guidance and Misguidance
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603904.0
Faith without good work is useless!
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604521
7 "Hells", 2 Heavens, and a "Purgatory"
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603259
Forgive & you'll be Forgiven
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603142
God Loves/doesn't Love
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603058.0
~ God's Unconnditional servants ~
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603053The articles he provided actually answered a lot of the questions you had. Did you read them?
Now this is just the tip of the iceberg to what I've seen from you. I agree with this guy
ApprenticePosts 317
Re What is the language in heaven?
? Reply #14 on November 06, 2012, 105252 AM ?Quote
Peace Stop S,Your use of the circular argument is impressive I must say, but circular nonetheless.
You ask "What is the language in heaven"? Answer Heaven is allegorical
You defy the answer answer not acceptable
You want allegorical changed to concrete.As for people who explain themselves
Beginner/Inquirer
Posts 21
GenderRe The God of the Quran is a Fact
? Reply #23 on Yesterday at 014816 PM ?Quote
Quote from StopS on Yesterday at 011007 PM
A theory? Who is talking about a theory?That is why we have this word reasonable. And the word sensible. Or the expression common sense. If you claim you can fly I will reject that until you provide proof. I do NOT first need to prove that to be wrong to be able to reject it.
If you believe anything and everything it is called gullible. If that's what you are, good luck.
Again the word theory. What does it do here? If you don't care about my theory why MSchumacher will leave Formula 1 this year I can understand why you would want to ignore it However, not caring about scientific theories is a different story altogether as they are based on facts and evidence, so ignoring that would be ignorant.Conclusion make only claims which have substance.
Actually, I don't believe in anything without proof, and I don't reject things without proof either. I am humble enough to say that I don't know the answer to that question, if I don't have substantial proof to say no definitively. I did look at what we were talking about in terms of choosing to reject something, and I will agree that you can reject whatever you want to reject. See the thing is that I can never be proven wrong if I choose not to reject or accept something because I feel that the facts aren't sufficient enough to merit a conclusive decision. On the other hand, you clearly feel that a decision must always be made, even prematurely, because you are a child that can't accept not knowing the answer to something.
Let me tell you the reality of life since you're so self-assured of yourself. The reality is that truth is a journey not a destination, and if you think you've arrived at the truth then you are simply a fool. Those who think they arrived at the truth, are often the same individuals who try to assert their authority over the "truth", in order to control the masses. They try to ridicule those that offer different perspectives because they are afraid of losing their power, and are afraid of being made to look like a fool. True wisdom is reaching the point in your life where you recognize that the truth doesn't have a destination. The lazy person gives up at this point, because the lazy person needs a destination. The wise person keeps walking, because he knows that the more he learns the better he will understand.
The truth doesn't care if you reject it or not, because your rejection has no impact on its reality and state of being. Admitting that there are some things that you will never know the answer to, will actually demonstrate your wisdom versus throwing an answer out there because you feel that an answer must be provided.
Conclusion I don't make claims, I throw out ideas, and people can do what they want with those ideas.
This guy gave you a thorough explanation as to why he made this post. From my perspective, it seems as though respectful replies are never made UNLESS someone conforms to your point of view.
Several people have told you to read the Quran and study it. So when you don't do so, they'll tell you to read articles that will explain some aspects of the Quran. So when you don't do so, they'll try to explain something in order for it to make sense to you, but may sound confusing since you haven't read any detailed explanations. So even if they make their explanation clear, nothing has changed because, from my perspective, you are not attempting to think for yourself. Instead, the people on here are asked to answer all of your questions about the universe and what not when these questions are about God. Why can't you just ask God? What are you scared of?
Though at the same time, this is just my first impression of you and I may have come to conclusions too soon. Please forgive me for being disrespectful and making assumptions.
My advice to you read the Quran. Seriously. Read it and study it thoroughly. Get off the computer and read and think for yourself.
Sorry for being a douche, I'm new to this ?patience? thing so please forgive me for that.
And yes, peace be upon you. I hope that you will find what you need.
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Ok.
118
What is the nature of God? / Re The Challenge Yet To Be MetI think I can safely call this the most useless reply I have ever received on any forum. It is unstructured, full of special pleading, unsubstantiated claims and plain ignorance.
All you have done is taken comments I made in different topics to different claims with different intentions and tried to make it look as though as I have no idea of how to spell Islam.
Your ridiculous and childishly stubborn repetition of read the Koran! only underlines your inability of understanding the problem.
Now, I will not engage in a personal insulting battle here, so if you want to discuss this, we can use a different platform. I am reachable on all the usual places and also via the Jinn&Tonic Show..
If you contribute a useful opinion regarding the god in Islam I will respond, but otherwise I will not react other than to assure anyone who doubts it that I have done a lot more than just read the Koran several times.
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Hi, StopS
Im curious, ever you read the quran once on your life? I think it is difficult to explain what we believe if you dont read the quran yourself.
I have the impression that most of people here do not have the time to read and study the Qur'an because of being busied writing posts and entertaining themselves with the replies, polemics and discussions...
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The sum of everything = 0. Is your god = 0?
You don't seem to understand what you are talking about. Its 0, only Mathematically (first law of thermodynamics). Just because you have -1 and you have +1 of something doesn't mean you have nothing (unless they occupy the same space-time). Buts that's ok, you are not an engineer like me.
Doesn't make any sense to me.
Yes.
It can't be reality because that would make my reality different from your and everybody else's.
Sorry, but I can't find a lot of compelling arguments here.No problem, I hope Allah has placed guidance in your future.
Cheers
EDIT
StopS,
When you get a chance, please take a second to think about how all of reality/existence came to be...