If "Only Allah", then "Allah Alone" is our watchword
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Why not? If the deceased person was earning an income of 18,000 a month, all the relatives shall come together to give that amount to the hapless family according to their minimum decreed share. Male will bear twice the share of what a female shall bear as her responsibility. 412, 176 does not contradict 411 if you could apply.
Peace, 411 starts concerning children; if they are boy age 3 and girls ages 5 & 7 -- responsibilities?
I have contextually applied the ayat to the ayats 47, 9, 10 and with reference to various ayats regarding the orphans too.
Then translate (state which word you are translating as what) use context which you skipped 48?
47 to the men share from what left the parents and the close relatives and for the women share from what left the parents and the close relatives from what small from it or large share of obligatory
48 and when comes the division those the relatives/near and the orphans and the needy so provide yeh them from it and speak yeh to them word of kindness of
49 and let fear the ones if left they from behind them offspring weak fear they over them so let fear they the god and to say they word of rightBut you have given only a literal translation. Say how you apply the verse in context of the whole of Quran with reference to justice to orphaned ones. Do you see any sense in the fractions in division of and breaking away with the properties? Further, who shall act as the guardian as an additional responsibility from among the nearest of kith and kin?
Chapter starts and ends with inheritance; perhaps read carefully and in context beginning to end...
410 surely the ones eating wealth the orphans injustice of only eating in bellies theirs fire of and will be burning a blaze
411 directs you the god in children yours lildhakari/to the male like share al-unthayayni/the two (f) so if are (f/p) nisan/women above two (f) falahunna/so for them (f/p) thulutha/third dual (2/3) what left and if kanat/she is whidatan/one (f/s) so for her the half wali-abawayhi/and to parents his/deceased to each one from them both the sixth from what left if kana/he is (m/s) for him/deceased walad/born (if ?he is? to person male child born i.e. a son) so if not was for him/deceased walad/born (if no child) and heirs parents his (if only parents are heirs) so to mother his/deceased the third so if he is (m/s) for him/deceased ikh'wat/brethren (if to person was a male sibling i.e. brother) so to mother his/deceased the sixth from after a will have made in it or judgment fathers yours and children yours not thou knowing which of them closer to you benefit of obligation from the god surely the god he is (m/s) knowledge of wisdom of412 and for you half what left azwjukum/spouses yours if not was for them (f/p) walad/born (if no child) so if he is (m/s) for them walad/born (if to person is a male child born i.e. son) so to you the fourth from what left they from after a will made they in it or judgment and for them the fourth from what left you if not was for you walad/born (if no child) so if he is (m/s) for you walad/born (if to person male born i.e. son) so to them the eight from what left you from after a will made they in it or judgment and if he is (m/s) man inherited kalalah/fatherless and spouse-less (deceased left no crown/head of household) or im'ra-atun/lady (formal address) and to him/deceased brother or sister so to each one from them both the sixth so if were they more/greater from that so they partners in the third from after a will is recommended in it or judgment not harmful a will from the god and the god know-er forbear-er
4176 they seek ruling yours say the god gives a ruling you in al-kalalah/the fatherless and spouse-less (the no head of household/crown) if person perished is not to him/deceased walad/born (if no child) and to him/deceased sister so for her half what left and he inherits it if not was for her walad/born (if no child) so if were (f) two (f) so to them both the third dual (2/3) from what left and if were ikh'watun/siblings rijlan/men wanisan/and women falildhakari/so to the male like share al-unthayayni/the two (f) shows the god to you lest stray yeh and the god in every thing know-er
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Peace, 411 starts concerning children; if they are boy age 3 and girls ages 5 & 7 -- responsibilities?
Peace,
Inheritance the act of contracting or assuming or acquiring possession of something - such as properties, characteristics, leadership, guardianship, gentic inheritance etc.
The ayat starts concerning children, the deceased had left behind. Then comes the inheritance of responsibilities of the nearest relations of the deceased, from among males and females. Why does the next sentence of the ayat say the words males and females instead of boys and girls? Children of 3 - 7 years of age shall not be entrusted with the properties except being kept in safety in the safe and responsible hands. Since the children are in orphans-like situation, it is incumbent upon the nearest kith and kin of the deceased to set right their affairs until the children come of age. They shall not devour the properties and wealth of the hapless children; nevertheless, the near relations of the deceased have to take fullest responsibility to care for them.
Where do you find mistake on my take? The context here is the deceased, his children, boys and girls; his near relations from males and females; and his properties; and the inheritance of the responsibilities. This beginning sentence of the ayat 411 is the centre point of the whole post. So let us settle this matter first.
Please avoid literal reading and understanding methodology of Quran. You even say your grossest translation of an ayat, in the common language, English. I will go by your own translation to get to the core of the subject matter for discussion. This reading combination - division those the relatives/near - gives headache. I am sorry to say this, but it is true.
drfazl
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Inheritance the act of contracting or assuming or acquiring possession of something - such as properties, characteristics, leadership, guardianship, gentic inheritance etc.
The ayat starts concerning children, the deceased had left behind. Then comes the inheritance of responsibilities of the nearest relations of the deceased, from among males and females. Why does the next sentence of the ayat say the words males and females instead of boys and girls? Children of 3 - 7 years of age shall not be entrusted with the properties except being kept in safety in the safe and responsible hands. Since the children are in orphans-like situation, it is incumbent upon the nearest kith and kin of the deceased to set right their affairs until the children come of age. They shall not devour the properties and wealth of the children; nevertheless, the near relations of the deceased have to take fullest responsibility to care of them.
Peace -- you are partially correct toward the end; we are warned early in the chapter not to mess with their inheritance...
46 and test yeh the orphans until when attained they the marriage so if perceive you from them rational so deliver yeh to them wealth theirs and not eat/consume it wastefully and hastily that grow up they (i.e. consume it before they come of age) and from he is rich so should refrain and from he is in need of so let eat/consume in the fair manner so when deliver you to them wealth theirs so witness yeh over them and sufficient in the god reckon-er
This beginning sentence of the ayat 411 is the centre point of the whole post. So let us settle this matter first. Where do you find mistake on my take?
The error was concerning distributions of inheritance 411 to children including orphans reference in 46 not responsibilities.
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Peace --
The error was concerning distributions of inheritance 411 to children including orphans reference in 46 not responsibilities.Peace,
I have not said about distribution of inheritance to children. I said you shall not hand over the inheritance to children until they come of age.
drfazl
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Let us stay put with 411 until we are finished with it.
Peace, 411 ties to 412, 4176 and rest of Qur'an.
OK then translate which word is responsibility?
If the deceased left $100,000 who gets what?
If mother is poor does she get 1/6 of responsibility or 1/6 of inheritance?Peace, 411 starts concerning children; if they are boy age 3 and girls ages 5 & 7 -- responsibilities?
Then translate (state which word you are translating as what) use context which you skipped 48?
47 to the men share from what left the parents and the close relatives and for the women share from what left the parents and the close relatives from what small from it or large share of obligatory
48 and when comes the division those the relatives/near and the orphans and the needy so provide yeh them from it and speak yeh to them word of kindness of
49 and let fear the ones if left they from behind them offspring weak fear they over them so let fear they the god and to say they word of rightChapter starts and ends with inheritance; perhaps read carefully and in context beginning to end...
410 surely the ones eating wealth the orphans injustice of only eating in bellies theirs fire of and will be burning a blaze
411 directs you the god in children yours lildhakari/to the male like share al-unthayayni/the two (f) so if are (f/p) nisan/women above two (f) falahunna/so for them (f/p) thulutha/third dual (2/3) what left and if kanat/she is whidatan/one (f/s) so for her the half wali-abawayhi/and to parents his/deceased to each one from them both the sixth from what left if kana/he is (m/s) for him/deceased walad/born (if ?he is? to person male child born i.e. a son) so if not was for him/deceased walad/born (if no child) and heirs parents his (if only parents are heirs) so to mother his/deceased the third so if he is (m/s) for him/deceased ikh'wat/brethren (if to person was a male sibling i.e. brother) so to mother his/deceased the sixth from after a will have made in it or judgment fathers yours and children yours not thou knowing which of them closer to you benefit of obligation from the god surely the god he is (m/s) knowledge of wisdom of412 and for you half what left azwjukum/spouses yours if not was for them (f/p) walad/born (if no child) so if he is (m/s) for them walad/born (if to person is a male child born i.e. son) so to you the fourth from what left they from after a will made they in it or judgment and for them the fourth from what left you if not was for you walad/born (if no child) so if he is (m/s) for you walad/born (if to person male born i.e. son) so to them the eight from what left you from after a will made they in it or judgment and if he is (m/s) man inherited kalalah/fatherless and spouse-less (deceased left no crown/head of household) or im'ra-atun/lady (formal address) and to him/deceased brother or sister so to each one from them both the sixth so if were they more/greater from that so they partners in the third from after a will is recommended in it or judgment not harmful a will from the god and the god know-er forbear-er
4176 they seek ruling yours say the god gives a ruling you in al-kalalah/the fatherless and spouse-less (the no head of household/crown) if person perished is not to him/deceased walad/born (if no child) and to him/deceased sister so for her half what left and he inherits it if not was for her walad/born (if no child) so if were (f) two (f) so to them both the third dual (2/3) from what left and if were ikh'watun/siblings rijlan/men wanisan/and women falildhakari/so to the male like share al-unthayayni/the two (f) shows the god to you lest stray yeh and the god in every thing know-er
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Peace, 411 ties to 412, 4176 and rest of Qur'an.
OK then translate which word is responsibility?
Peace,
The word "share".
Share what?
Share the responsibilities the deceased had left towards his family. Thus delivering justice and doing the duty for Allah's sake to the bereaved family, as nearest kin to the deceased..- And when near of kin and orphans and needy persons are present at the distribution of share, give them of it, and speak unto them in a kindly way.
When the other near ones, and other orphans, and the other needy come to pay their condolences and to say the words of solace and kind words of comfort to the orphaned children, take them too into your confidence - and their share in this situation could be in the least, is to share their views, and to bear "witness" to the distribution of share. They would themselves volunteer and intervene as to the distribution of responsibilities among them. Slight them not in anger on account of their distance in relations to them. Speak to them kindly and take their views too into consideration.
Please speak in one language at a time. And let it be the common language, English.
drfazl
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The word "share".
Share what?
Share the responsibilities the deceased had left towards his family. Thus delivering justice and doing the duty for Allah's sake to the bereaved family, as nearest kin to the deceased..Peace -- then translate 411, 412, and 4176 entirely see if share responsibilities in context makes any sense?
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Peace,
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Speaks concerning the demise of the husband leaving behind his wife and weak offsprings.
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Speaks concerning the demise of the wife leaving behind husband with or without their grown up next generation.
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Speaks concerning the demise of an elderly last surviving one - either male or female who has no ascendant or descendant generations.
These are the three categories each one is distinctly different in circumstantial situation. The crux matter in these three ayats is not about dividing the wealth and properties of the deceased and taking away the loots as shares - but giving away from your wealth as their near relations, a decreed share to help run the family without any financial burden over-flowing them. All the three ayats involve of the people, either poor or middle income family.
All these people are indebted people having minimal means of survival with no property of their own, and even living in lower-rented flats. And hence what is decreed upon the faithful people is to settle their lives in just proportions as Allah has ordained. In such a situation you need to spend from your wealth to clear off all his debts and save him from insolvency so that the family now starts life with dignity. There is absolutely nothing you could take away from the bereaved family, for there is nothing left with them as their possessions.
Based on this, we start with 411 concerning children.
To be continued....
drfazl
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Peace,
- Speaks concerning the demise of the husband leaving behind his wife and weak offsprings.
No it doesn't.
- Speaks concerning the demise of the wife leaving behind husband with or without their grown up next generation.
No it doesn't.
- Speaks concerning the demise of an elderly last surviving one - either male or female who has no ascendant or descendant generations.
No it doesn't.
These are the three categories each one is distinctly different in circumstantial situation. The crux matter in these three ayats is not about dividing the wealth and properties of the deceased and taking away the loots as shares - but giving away from your wealth as their near relations, a decreed share to help run the family without any financial burden over-flowing them. All the three ayats involve of the people, either poor or middle income family.
No, it's exactly about distribution of inheritance.
All these people are indebted people having minimal means of survival with no property of their own, and even living in lower-rented flats. And hence what is decreed upon the faithful people is to settle their lives in just proportions as Allah has ordained. In such a situation you need to spend from your wealth to clear off all his debts and save him from insolvency so that the family now starts life with dignity. There is absolutely nothing you could take away from the bereaved family, for there is nothing left with them as their possessions.
None of that is mentioned in verses.
Based on this, we start with 411 concerning children.
To be continued....
Yes we are waiting. Why post above assertions without first carefully translating the verses?
Perhaps start with who is being addressed exactly; fathers only, mothers only or any parent?
411 directs you the god in/concerning children yours ...
6151 and with the parents both kindness and not kill yeh children yours from pauperism
6415 only wealth yours and children yours fit?natun/trial -
Spend away; take mot away
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Allah enjoins you concerning your offsprings
The God of the worlds warns you to fear Him concerning the state of your weak offsprings if you die leaving them orphans at such tender age. If we take the admonition seriously, then here is what you shall do concerning the similar status of other orphans before you. "And test the orphans until they attain maturity - then if you find in them maturity of intellect, make over to them their property, and do not consume it extravagantly and hastily, lest they attain to full age; and whoever is rich, let him abstain altogether from touching it, and whoever is poor, let him use it reasonably; then when you make over to them their property, call witnesses in their presence; and Allah is enough as a Reckoner."
- The male shall have the equal of the share of responsibility of two females.
This is because, "Men are the sustainers and maintainers of women because Allah has made men to excel women and because they spend out of their property. Surely Allah is High, Great." Every man shall shoulder twice the responsibility to safeguard the interests and properties of the offsprings - "And let those fear who, should they leave behind them weakly offspring, would fear on their account, so let them be careful of their duty to Allah." Here is what Allah ordains upon men and women as to their respective responsibilities to share-
- Then if they are more than two females, they shall have two-thirds responsibility of the responsibilities the deceased has left behind; and if there is one, she shall bear the half.
If there are only females as near relatives of the deceased, then their share of responsibilities go as above depending on their numbers.
- And as for his parents, each of them shall bear the sixth of what he has left if he has a child.
Since his parents have reached above the earning age, it is enough if they each bear a sixth of responsibility. How justified could it be to take away a child's property earned for it by its father?
- But if he has no child and his two parents inherit him, then his mother shall bear the third.
His father, the male shall bear twice the share of what the mother shall bear.
- But if he has brothers, then his mother shall bear the sixth
And his father shall bear one third, twice that of the mother.
- After a bequest he may have bequeathed or a debt.
All the above mentioned shares to help smooth running of the bereaved family come to effect immediately after his debt and his personal will of settlement of dues and his promises is fulfilled as quickly as possible, so that there is no hindrance or the burden of loans, and also saving the family from the harassments by the people unknown to them.
- Your parents and your children and you know not which of them nearer to you in usefulness; this is an ordinance from Allah Surely Allah is Knowing, Wise.
Only to make you understand that except for a very few of your near and dear relations would not visit you even at death and worse still, even the very few might not turn up. They are the rejecters of God's ayats. On the other hand from among the distant relations and friends, or even the orphans might turn up with compassion in their hearts to help your family tide over the critical situation. And you will know they are your brethren in Islam.
"Say If your fathers and your sons and your brethren and your mates and your kinsfolk and property which you have inherited, and the slackness of trade which you fear and dwellings which you like, are dearer to you than Allah and His Apostle and striving in His way, then wait till Allah brings about His command and Allah does not guide the transgressing people." 924
412 follows next
fazlur rahman
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Peace,
No it doesn't.
No it doesn't.
No it doesn't.
No, it's exactly about distribution of inheritance.
What is there to answer you for your simple "one word dismissal" without substantial back up with your view points?
None of that is mentioned in verses.
That is my view. You can clearly see that as a paragraph separated from the verse.
Yes we are waiting. Why post above assertions without first carefully translating the verses?
You are interested in arabic language that you go for literal translation. I am being careful in getting at the translation to reform and transform. We are poles apart. It is better we stay polarised.
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Peace drfazl,
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Allah enjoins you concerning your offsprings
The God of the worlds warns you to fear Him concerning the state of your weak offsprings if you die leaving them orphans at such tender age. If we take the admonition seriously, then here is what you shall do concerning the similar status of other orphans before you. "And test the orphans until they attain maturity - then if you find in them maturity of intellect, make over to them their property, and do not consume it extravagantly and hastily, lest they attain to full age; and whoever is rich, let him abstain altogether from touching it, and whoever is poor, let him use it reasonably; then when you make over to them their property, call witnesses in their presence; and Allah is enough as a Reckoner."
- The male shall have the equal of the share of responsibility of two females.
411 directs you the god in/concerning children yours lildhakari/to the male like share al-unthayayni/the two (feminine)...
Case deceased leaves property 72 gold coins; son age 2, two daughters ages 5 and 10
Question what responsibility are you assigning to each underage child?
Question upon maturity how person in whose care distribute 72 coins?- Then if they are more than two females, they shall have two-thirds responsibility of the responsibilities the deceased has left behind; and if there is one, she shall bear the half.
If there are only females as near relatives of the deceased, then their share of responsibilities go as above depending on their numbers.
- And as for his parents, each of them shall bear the sixth of what he has left if he has a child.
Since his parents have reached above the earning age, it is enough if they each bear a sixth of responsibility. How justified could it be to take away a child's property earned for it by its father?
411 ... so if are (f/p) nisan/women above two (f) falahunna/so for them (f/p) thulutha/third dual (2/3) what left and if kanat/she is whidatan/one (f/s) so for her the half
and to parents his/deceased to each one from them both the sixth from what left if kana/he is (m/s) for him/deceased walad/born (if ?he is? to person male child born i.e. a son)
Case deceased leaves property 72 gold coins; mother, father, son age 2, two daughters ages 5 and 10
Question who has responsibility for whom and for how much?
Question how to distribute 72 gold coins immediately and when each child reaches maturity?- But if he has no child and his two parents inherit him, then his mother shall bear the third.
His father, the male shall bear twice the share of what the mother shall bear.
411 ... so if not was for him/deceased walad/born (if no child) and heirs parents his (if only parents are heirs) so to mother his/deceased the third
Case deceased leaves 72 gold coins; mother and father
Question who has responsibility for whom and how much?
Question how should 72 coins be distributed immediately?- But if he has brothers, then his mother shall bear the sixth
And his father shall bear one third, twice that of the mother.
411 ... so if he is (m/s) for him/deceased ikh'wat/brethren (if to person was a male sibling i.e. brother) so to mother his/deceased the sixth from after a will have made in it or judgment
Case deceased leaves 72 gold coins; mother, father, and brother age 20
Question who has responsibility for whom and how much?
Question how should 72 coins be distributed immediately?Case deceased leaves 72 gold coins; mother and brother age 10
Question who has responsibility for whom and how much?
Question how should 72 coins be distributed immediately and when brother reaches maturity?412 follows next
411, 412, and 4176 give exact inheritance distributions (not responsibilities) for all combinations.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604035.0
Peace
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Peace drfazl,
411 directs you the god in/concerning children yours lildhakari/to the male like share al-unthayayni/the two (feminine)...
Case deceased leaves property 72 gold coins; son age 2, two daughters ages 5 and 10
Question what responsibility are you assigning to each underage child?
Question upon maturity how person in whose care distribute 72 coins?Peace noon,
47 to 410 is the prelude before entering 411. Please read post 137. http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604771.msg333602#msg333602
And 48 needs special mention. Msg# 145
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604771.msg333637#msg333637Where is the question of assigning responsibility to the weak offsprings? Wherefrom in 411 you got this?
It is the duty of all the near relations to come together to settle the debts and fulfil the Will of the deceased, in whatever and every means possible. Then you shall sit together and take account of the necessary financial assistance on daily or monthly basis and pour in your contributions as per shares prescribed. And wealthy among you can give more for Allah's sake, and among them who have not much finance to support there is no blame on them if they can only contribute less. Allah is sufficient as Reckoner. Even the distant relations and all those who wish to take part and spend in Allah's case however poor they are, they shall be given permission to do so. "Those who spend benevolently in ease as well as in straitness, and Allah loves the doers of good to others."
411 says regarding those poor families with little children whose deceased father was earning every day for their livelihood and their livelihood is straitened with the debts in addition. Wherefrom you got 72 gold coins? This imaginary case has no standing here. They have nothing left with them like what you say according to 411.
drfazl
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Before going to 412, we shall keep in mind the general rule stated in 47 - Men shall have a portion of what the parents and the near relatives leave, and women shall have a portion of what the parents and the near relatives leave, whether there is little or much of it; a stated portion.
Here the men and women are the grown ups and are not children. They have slated portion to carry on the duties left behind by either their parents or their near relatives. Among the duties the first to be done is to settle the will and the debts of the deceased.
412
This verse begins by addressing the community as a whole comprising of men and women. Here it goes
- And you shall have half of what your wives leave if they have no child.
Since the husband has already been looking after her all along, it is addressed to the near relatives of the wives with regard to any settlement by way of her will or debt which is truly an extra burden. Here referring to child does not mean small children but grown up by then had they had them in time after marriage. In such situation the near relations of wife shall bear half the responsibility, until such a period, the situation in the family is normalised.
- But if they have a child, then you shall have a fourth of what they leave after payment of any bequest they may have bequeathed or a debt.
But if they have the child, then he shall bear too the duties to his mother, and they shall bear the fourth of it. The rest of a fourth shall be borne by the near relatives of wife.
- This apart, they shall have the fourth of what you leave if you have no child.
There might have been forced expenses from unforeseen circumstances for which had the husband gone in for debts on account of the deceased - then upon her relatives a fourth is due if you have no child.
- But if you have a child then they shall have the eighth of what you leave after payment of a bequest you may have bequeathed or a debt.
If you have child, then their share is even halved.
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And if a man or a woman leaves commitments to be inherited by neither parents nor offspring, and he or she has a brother or a sister, then each of them two shall have the sixth.
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But if they are more than that, they shall be sharers in the third after payment of any bequest that may have been bequeathed or a debt.
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But it shall not cause loss to any.
While thus sharing the responsibilities, Allah is always compassionate on whom there is financial restrictions. They shall never be forced to take part. Surely Allah will not put to test any one beyond his scope to bear. In the path to salam compulsion is prohibited.
- This is an ordinance from Allah and Allah is Knowing, Forbearing.
fazlur rahman
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Peace -- drfazl
Wherefrom you got 72 gold coins? This imaginary case has no standing here. They have nothing left with them like what you say according to 411.
OK make 5 coins and a donkey or anything of value in their possession at time of death.
Likewise when it says don't eat their wealth and hand over their properties when they reach maturity -- what is that talking about other than their inheritance?
410 surely the ones eating wealth the orphans injustice of only eating in bellies theirs fire of and will be burning a blaze
411 directs you the god in children yours...Please answer the questions posted earlier; what happens to inheritance/property of deceased rich or poor?
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412
This verse begins by addressing the community as a whole comprising of men and women. Here it goes
- And you shall have half of what your wives leave if they have no child.
Since the husband has already been looking after her all along, it is addressed to the near relatives of the wives with regard to any settlement by way of her will or debt which is truly an extra burden. Here referring to child does not mean small children but grown up by then had they had them in time after marriage. In such situation the near relations of wife shall bear half the responsibility, until such a period, the situation in the family is normalised.
What?
412 and for you half what left azwjukum/spouses yours if not was for them (f/p) walad/born (if no child)
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Peace -- drfazl
OK make 5 coins and a donkey or anything of value in their p handshakessession at time of death.
Likewise when it says don't eat their wealth and hand over their properties when they reach maturity -- what is that talking about other than their inheritance?
410 surely the ones eating wealth the orphans injustice of only eating in bellies theirs fire of and will be burning a blaze
411 directs you the god in children yours...Please answer the questions posted earlier; what happens to inheritance/property of deceased rich or poor?
Peace noon
I have given account of 411 regarding the poor in all my previous posts and what the responsibilities are with regard to the near relatives of the deceased. In the first place there is no question of having any personal property such as donkey and 5 coins when the family needs to settle their debts.
And again you shall understand there is no way even thinking of inheriting the properties by any of the relatives other than the members of the deceased family.
drfazl
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Peace noon
I have given account of 411 regarding the poor in all my previous posts and what the responsibilities are with regard to the near relatives of the deceased. In the first place there is no question of having any personal property such as donkey and 5 coins when the family needs to settle their debts.
And again you shall understand there is no way even thinking of inheriting the properties by any of the relatives other than the members of the deceased family.
drfazl
Peace drfazl, yes inheriting properties by close members family of deceased.
Again, I ask you who gets the deceased property and how much?
inheritors mother, father, spouse, daughters, sons, sisters, brothers
Again, I ask you what is wealth of orphans not to be eaten and given them?
46 and test yeh the orphans until when attained they the marriage so if perceive you from them rational so deliver yeh to them wealth theirs and not eat/consume it wastefully and hastily that grow up they (i.e. consume it before they come of age) and from he is rich so should refrain and from he is in need of so let eat/consume in the fair manner so when deliver you to them wealth theirs so witness yeh over them and sufficient in the god reckon-er
410 surely the ones eating wealth the orphans injustice of only eating in bellies theirs fire of and will be burning a blaze
411 directs you the god in children yours...No need to get into 412 and 4176 for your interpretation has so many contractions it makes absolutely no sense which you are not translating rather writing your own book using your own words according to some weird Marxist communist anti-inheritance philosophy saying it's about poor tenants living in low housing flats.
Let?s stick to words used in the book apply them accordingly otherwise not wasting any more time.
Peace
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Peace drfazl, yes inheriting properties by close members family of deceased.
Again, I ask you who gets the deceased property and how much?
inheritors mother, father, spouse, daughters, sons, sisters, brothers
Again, I ask you what is wealth of orphans not to be eaten and given them?
Peace noon,
46 is not to be applied here for the ayat is concerning the orphans who have no relatives at all; or in other words abandoned by the relatives because of such misinterpretation of 411.
411 is not concerning with orphans but either of the parents and all the near and far relatives are bonded together. If you follow this ayat, there cannot be orphans at all. The ayat is all about the indebted family as the earning member, male dies. The relations of the husband play major role in streamlining the family affairs. Their first duty is to pay debts.
Make it clear a family in debt has no property. They are to be sold or to be mortgaged to settle debts. In addition they are to be helped by the near ones. The family members such as spouse, sons and daughters are very young and financially weak and they have no role. But father, mother, brothers, sisters of the deceased do have a role.
Unless you get this there is no seeing each other eye to eye, for fruitful discussion.
I am not ambiguous in my take. I respect your take if your understanding is original, uncontaminated by Hadiths.
drfazl
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Hadith of Allah & Hadith of Buhari
Which is true and which is satanic? What do we understand by the following ayat?
- God - save whom there is no deity - will surely gather you all together on the Day of Resurrection. Which is beyond all doubt? And whose Hadith could be truer than God's?
Only if we discard Buhari's Hadiths as comprising of doubts, mischiefs and falsehood, there is no way a word of Quran could be understood in the right direction. If we are to read Quran, we have to seek from Allah the revelation of what every ayat, words mean pertaining to each of our situation at any given point of time. Quran is not Arabic language. Quran is Wahi given in Arabic syllables. Such as Alif, Laam, Meem, Raa, Noon, Kaf, Ha, Ya, Ain, Saad etc. every syllable of Quran has meanings which Allah alone could reveal and teach. But we believe in Arabic language and derive the mundane meanings as Allah's revelation. This amounts to pride and prejudice. It is surely a manner of association to Allah's Hadiths.
If we are humble before Allah and wait in patience to totally surrender to the Revelation of His Hadiths, then we shall be elevated with Revelation as and when it reaches us as Wahi. Only now 411 is easy to get at.
drfazl