"No Rituals"? What about 5:6?
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bravoGood post, Man of Faith.
One more point worth noting
And when you have finished your prayer, remember God - standing and sitting and lying down; and when you are once again secure, observe your prayers . Verily, for all believers prayer is indeed a sacred duty linked to particular times . (4103)
CONVEY whatever of this divine writ has been revealed unto thee, and be constant in prayer for, behold, prayer restrains from loathsome deeds and from all that runs counter to reason; and remembrance of God is indeed the greatest . And God knows all that you do. (2945)
And when the prayer is ended, disperse freely on earth and seek to obtain of God's bounty; but remember God often, so that you might attain to a happy state! (6210)
Some people think that they can remember God/talk to God whenever they want, so no need of any ritual. But the above verses clearly demonstrates that there is a difference between 'remembering God at specific times = prayer' and 'remembering God at any time'.
The following verses suggests/hints that there is a general form to prayer
2238 Preserve the contact-methods, and the middle contact-method, and stand devoutly for God.
2239 But if you are in a state of worry, then you may do so while walking or riding. If you become secure, then remember God as He has taught you what you did not know.
This is why I tell everyone to stick to the form of standing, bowing and prostrating.
Peace.
Very Good
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Hi Everyone,
I also think there is some value in having specific times of day for prayer. It requires you to be mindful of your time and makes you stop to pray. It is a way of putting prayer into your day and to orient your day around prayer. And then hopefully you will orient your day around Allah. Same thing with dietary restrictions. It makes you think about Allah every time you eat. These rituals have an impact on our days. However specifying exactly how to pray or the number of prostrations, etc. may be going a little too far.
Just my crazy thoughts...
JewishDude
peace Salam, Shalom, Peace peace -
peace Scribbler, all,
bravoGood post, Man of Faith.
One more point worth noting
And when you have finished your prayer, remember God - standing and sitting and lying down; and when you are once again secure, observe your prayers . Verily, for all believers prayer is indeed a sacred duty linked to particular times . (4103)
CONVEY whatever of this divine writ has been revealed unto thee, and be constant in prayer for, behold, prayer restrains from loathsome deeds and from all that runs counter to reason; and remembrance of God is indeed the greatest . And God knows all that you do. (2945)
And when the prayer is ended, disperse freely on earth and seek to obtain of God's bounty; but remember God often, so that you might attain to a happy state! (6210)
Some people think that they can remember God/talk to God whenever they want, so no need of any ritual. But the above verses clearly demonstrates that there is a difference between 'remembering God at specific times = prayer' and 'remembering God at any time'.
From my readings, I have never read anyone put forth a credible argument explaining away the finite/timed aspect of salat, i.e. some verses do suggest a finite/timed component, but they fail to explain it away. So you're right here.
The following verses suggests/hints that there is a general form to prayer
2238 Preserve the contact-methods, and the middle contact-method, and stand devoutly for God.
2239 But if you are in a state of worry, then you may do so while walking or riding. If you become secure, then remember God as He has taught you what you did not know.
This is why I tell everyone to stick to the form of standing, bowing and prostrating.
More correctly
The word "qumu" in 2238 commonly translated as "stand" (as in a physical standing) can also mean a figurative "stand" in Quran, e.g. "stand" for justice.
The better deduction from the above verses is the preference is being stationary, not necessarily standing.
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Peace everyone,
Rather one performs the rituals or not, fast or not, it all comes down to intentions
we can explain our points of view but our viewpoints start with our intentions
Folks who try to find reasons based in Quran for not doing wudu, salat, or fast simply
cannot bring themselves to say " I don't like making salat" or "I don't want to make
wudu" or "I don't like being hungry" hiding behind their true intentions. Please do not
be offended, but in such discussions all points of view should be welcome.THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD
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Peace hawkninetynine and everyone else,
Considering the basic criteria to "reach Heaven" is
- Believe in God
- Believe in the Herafter
- Be a righteous person
I hence believe you may be "forgiven" if you fulfill criteria 1 and 2 plus focus heavily on criteria 3 by doing all that is considering righteous in the Quran and abstaining from unrighteous things. If you offer lots of your life to others in terms of services, i.e preach the message, give alms, being helpful, and thinking a lot about God and the spiritual life, and follow overall tips in the Quran about righteousness, you may as well be able to offer prayers in custom ways as long as you have the right intention and still be able to enjoy Heaven at the end of days.
Of course, if you as a community, get together and agree on a uniform prayer and offer that to God alone as a group, I doubt that will hurt, but rather benefit you, since you had an easier time cooperating with other living beings. I have understood God likes when people can work together to achieve goals. Of course this is a huge trial for us with our big egos and we want to have it our way many times, not everyone, but a lot of us, until we either change or it is too late for that.
I have a feeling this is the traditional misinterpretation of the verses talking about Qiblah and the prayers and so on. God wants us to be a brotherhood/sisterhood of friends and love each other much like Jesus is being presented in the Gospel for example.
The Quran teaches us that much of the worship can be done by singing praises for the Lord and you can do that together as a group as well and it is encouraged, and can be a sort of prayer, much like Christians do.
The true big issue is when you start associating partners with God or challenging His absolute authority by adding people like Jesus, Muhammad, Ali, etc, in our glorification of Him and lifting them to rank with God or anywhere close, giving them God-like powers or prayer time when they are no more than ordinary human beings. God alone should suffice, no need to praise the prophets for a service God provided to begin with. No human messenger would never had even wanted (or dared) wanting to be commemorated as a lord or mini-boss. The messengers perform their marvels by the holy spirit and that can be the same as saying God had them under "alien control" (if you are like me and UFO game nerd). Sure messengership is a wonderful and honorable thing, but they would encourage everyone to follow the Lord alone.
After all, God gave the before-mentioned as basic conditions, and except the God believing stuff, being righteous is the only required parameter. And that will come automatically by believing and trusting in Him and following only His teachings or those of recognized authority around you that do not encourage idolatry and sins. Recognize means you use your common senses, like brain, eyes and ears which God provided humans with to be used wisely. Copying behavior without thinking is the usual mistake, but on the other hand, following a righteous leader (like people did with Muhammad), is nothing wrong, the reverent will disobey him/her in case the leader would walk astray. Religious leaders may thus be entirely okay, no problems, it is a hot topic, but truly we should not be afraid of that, just not follow ideas that are man-made and idolatrous in nature and giving illegal restrictions and hence never authorized by God.
A religious leader (or rather a person preaching the message=messenger) should only want to inspire people to follow God alone and never ask for any gratification, wage or fame, and be rather humble and undemanding when it comes to that, and even being a bit withdrawn. I think it takes special persons to be leaders to be followed, and they should only be followed to gain inspiration and unity among believers. It is hard to define a righteous leader without being afraid of idol worship, is it not?
Of course, someone would automatically follow a leader who were exposed to a religious phenomenon proving a good connection to God such as in the case of Muhammad and previous messengers. But we may also keep our eyes open for those who truly want to inspire people on the righteous path and at the same time asking for little in return.
But people here, for example, are right. We should first of all seek the Lord and trust in Him and seek a connection to Him alone without someone acting as a middle hand, but nothing forbids us from being put on a straight path and inspired by a messenger who in return is filled with the Holy Spirit and doing many righteous things, as long as he makes you sing, pray and become more generous and giving, in the way of God.
What I just wrote is, like much of the Quran, just a recommendation and your own way is sufficiently fine as long as you yourself consider it righteousness (and enshallah God does) and you follow the Quran with your true heart, your true intention will surely be enough or God will otherwise correct your errors in time, as long as you persevere and remain steadfast and worship Him devoutly, even during times of difficult trials.
You shall thank God for living, even if you lie down shaking on a bed in pain with muscle spasms (but of course you can complain about it or show grief for God is testing you, but that you will contact Him alone and beg for Him to relieve the pain you are in).
Trust me, what I mentioned above has actually happened to me and I was in great pain for weeks in this and it was difficult to remain steadfast and not doubting God, but I managed to remain on God's side throughout this trial, even if it was one of the biggest trials in my life. And now I was entirely honest with you, this is a true story. Anyway, God removed my affliction after a painful period and I have been exposed to some other lesser intense but life-long hard trials since that.
Now the intent with this is not for you to feel pity for me at all, I want to show how strong the Faith of a believer should be. If you are exposed to the above test and only become stronger in Faith after that, God will surely never expose you to such trials again (enshallah), you will only grow in received blessings and prosper in life.
Of course you never know when God decides to put on that hammer again... hmm
Sorry, for those patient enough to read this far on my post, that I rambled on for this long. May God grant you great patience rotfl
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Peace Man of Faith,
Rituals are "food" for the soul, and like a proper diet, can help us to be more
"spiritually" healthy.Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts;
anyone who believes in GOD, and believes in the Last Day, and leads a
righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear,
nor will they grieve.Peace
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Thank you. You also backed me up with the appropriate Quranic verse from where I got my knowledge. I often know things but I forget numbers rotfl
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When going through tough times, I know it is not easy to be very spiritual and Godly, but I think it largely depends on what sorts of conditions we have on our relationship with God. If we have lots of conditions, then we may start wondering what's wrong or whether God is actually merciful etc etc. But, if we take God as the matter of fact foundation of reality, without inserting our own conditions, then it would be easier to "have" God in all sorts of circumstances. Just an idea I had...
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Peace zulf,
Talking from my own experience, while on that bed it felt like I was exposed to torture, it is difficult not losing hope and fall victim to the whispers of Satan, who was probably cheering that I would lose my fight, or even causing the trouble elektro rotfl
But I am sure you are right, zulf, if I would be exposed to the same thing now as of today I would not (enshallah) lose an inch of faith, even if it would be double the pain as the last time. It is your faith status which determine how steadfast you are. Surviving one disaster and receiving a reward and blessings for the steadfastness, will increase the chances you will endure without giving in the next time, if you are truly faithful pr
hmm You probably mean if we expect too much from God? Easiest for ourselves is if we never expect anything, I mean, we can be blessed with provisions, then suddenly everything is removed from us, as a part of an upcoming new trial and we humbly accept these new living conditions, but of course imploring God that He will be merciful with His new test hail
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I wasn't talking about what we expect from God... rather I was talking about our conceptual conditions on God... that is, our image of God. For example, there are many people who reason like this "Religion claim God is merciful and all-knowing and all-powerful, but since there are injustices and misery in the world, Religion must be wrong and hence God doesn't exist."
Imagine a person who claims to be religious, but never really had any major problems in life. Life always tended to be a bit dull, safe and ordinary... until a major personal disaster struck. This person now starts questioning the existance of God just because this disaster doesn't fit with his previous beige, moderate and feel-good version of faith in God. This Mr Applepie had conditions on God which made his entire faith shake, and perhaps crumbel, when things really got tough. This weakness in conviction depended entirely on his world view, his image of God and in other world his own limitations. God is God, reality is reality... so why did his faith change? Well, perhaps it wasn't very genuine with a strong foundation in reality. Hope this made it a little more clear.God is God. If we go up and down in faith... depends on us and not on God.
Cheers!
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Salaam zulf,
Alright, I know what you mean now. It sounds like the average human brickwall
God bless you
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I wasn't talking about what we expect from God... rather I was talking about our conceptual conditions on God... that is, our image of God. For example, there are many people who reason like this "Religion claim God is merciful and all-knowing and all-powerful, but since there are injustices and misery in the world, Religion must be wrong and hence God doesn't exist."
Imagine a person who claims to be religious, but never really had any major problems in life. Life always tended to be a bit dull, safe and ordinary... until a major personal disaster struck. This person now starts questioning the existance of God just because this disaster doesn't fit with his previous beige, moderate and feel-good version of faith in God. This Mr Applepie had conditions on God which made his entire faith shake, and perhaps crumbel, when things really got tough. This weakness in conviction depended entirely on his world view, his image of God and in other world his own limitations. God is God, reality is reality... so why did his faith change? Well, perhaps it wasn't very genuine with a strong foundation in reality. Hope this made it a little more clear.God is God. If we go up and down in faith... depends on us and not on God.
Cheers!
Here is described this man
And there is a man with conceptual understanding and psyche amongst human beings he owes and professes allegiance to Allah the Exalted in a state of mind upon a verge.
Thereat, if pleasantness has become his fortune, he contented himself with such allegiance.
And in case an irritating and unpleasant situation afflicted him; he about-faced.
He has thus caused to himself the loss in this World and the Hereafter.
This sort of about-facing is what the manifest loss is truly. -
Salaam Mazhar,
That was right on spot!
It was the verse which explain this conditional worship of the Almighty.
God bless you for complementing our talk and backing it up from the Quran.
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Salamun alaika,
Perhaps each person is described in Qur'aan under sub-classifications with reference to psyche and conduct.
Know the certain fact that We have sent towards you people the Book Grand Qur'aan .
The peculiarity of this Book is that the mention psyche, inner nature and conduct of you people is detailed therein.
Would you still, after finding yourself mentioned therein, not reflect rationally? -
Salaam Mazhar,
True, we can find ourselves in the Message. Most of us can identify ourselves with the life of various messengers at different parts of our lives, for example. The stories of the messengers can reflect a huge variety of different situations one may face.
The Message should be an inspiration for the Believers, otherwise it would be strange. If we cannot identify ourselves with it then it would be more difficult to embrace its fineness, would it not?
Anyway, thank you for your input and further inspiration to my thinking.
God bless you, that you may enter the Gates of Heaven
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Salam
They were worshiping idols as you said. What does worshiping idols have to do with praying towards the Ka'ba?
Because the Kaaba is a black cube and the black cube is linked with Saturn worship and Saturn = satan??
I read about saturn death cult and cube cult and i am really not sure if a muslim should pray towards a cube even he knows that this cube is only a symbol- the question remains a symbol for what?
whatever
peace -
Peace All,
When I sit down to eat, I naturally thank God. I do this, because it pleases God and it pleases me. Before I read the Koran at night (this is my salat), I perform wudu. I do this, because it pleases God. I would regard both actions as rituals if they were done without thought, mechanically. Take for example the person who prays 5 times a day. In between the prayers the person may act like unpeacefully and in an unkind manner. This renders his prayers a mere ritual, because he obviously has no regard for the little people. X
