What is God's role with Born Disabled?

drfazl

Seems like I need to add Poll in this post. hmm Ideally, I would vote for justamuslim and savage_carrot. bravo

Personally, I do try to avoid some of the medicines (sleeping pills, distress pills etc..) but will not agree that whole modern medicines are work of evil. In fact like I said before, I believe that the diseases and sickness are work of evil and discovery of medicines is blessing of God. Story narrated by justamuslim regarding a man in flood is absolutely bang on in this topic. God does not want us to sit back and say "God is our protector and he will look after us". A BIG NO. It is same like we stop EATING and say God will look after us. God has set up system for everything and we have to attempt and follow the system. Not doing any attempt will be against God.

Peace

There is no need to put to vote because the majority would go with the flow of things. Only in the long run the truth would become evident before them but then it would be too late.

drfazl

Pretty sure they didn't remove my uterus when they treated me since I had kids after that. But well done on not responding to anything in my previous post. What is MM anyways...modern medicine? Modern man? Modem Mangled?

While I talk about millions all over the world whose uterus were removed along with ovaries, you talk about your uterus. You are lucky. It is because of such of your answers I ignore the contents of post as you do not read my posts before typing. You should take care to listen to my posts; I do not see any point answering you. Do not think otherwise.

stillearning

Aoa

The entire human race from birth to death is in some sort of mind level disturbance.

& does that apply to you as we'll ( would explain your posts) if so how do you know that your thinking or understanding is not effected by your "mind level disturbance".

Regards

savage_carrot

While I talk about millions all over the world whose uterus were removed along with ovaries, you talk about your uterus. You are lucky. It is because of such of your answers I ignore the contents of post as you do not read my posts before typing. You should take care to listen to my posts; I do not see any point answering you. Do not think otherwise.

Millions of women's womanly parts were removed because the doctors were chop happy evil satanists? I love the flair for the dramatic, and the lack of logic. You responded to my post with a rant that did not touch on any of what I said except a repetition of doctors are evil, adding a twist of systematic organ removal for god knows what irrelevant reason other than to bring in more histrionics the MM will have no option but surgical removal of the ailing organ and organs one after another, until finally you become a shell of bones and skin. See the direction of learning skills of the MM? Not at all in curing and making the organs to bounce back to life.

I'd listen to your posts if they had a musical soundtrack to them. Preferably plenty of drums and bass, so I can drown out the thoughts of facepalming repeatedly.

drfazl

Seems like I need to add Poll in this post. hmm Ideally, I would vote for justamuslim and savage_carrot. bravo

Personally, I do try to avoid some of the medicines (sleeping pills, distress pills etc..) but will not agree that whole modern medicines are work of evil. In fact like I said before, I believe that the diseases and sickness are work of evil and discovery of medicines is blessing of God. Story narrated by justamuslim regarding a man in flood is absolutely bang on in this topic. God does not want us to sit back and say "God is our protector and he will look after us". A BIG NO. It is same like we stop EATING and say God will look after us. God has set up system for everything and we have to attempt and follow the system. Not doing any attempt will be against God.

Peace

You believe in the concocted stories that does not befit Allah's warnings and the catastrophes that followed them all in various communities all over the world described in Quran. To relieve one symptom of a disease temporarily, how many evil effects a patient is made to undergo. Allah says turn to Him in repentance of your sin of having associated doctors to Him, and with Him and He would deliver you from affliction. If you do not turn freeing yourself from associating to God, you will keep earning the evil of what your own hands have wrought until you come to the death bed of intensive care. There you will cry out in pain, 'O God, I believe you alone; save my life! And relieve me of my pain!' You know what Allah would do? He would sit back and would say 'A BIG NO!' Read the Ayat and then vote

And of no effect is the repentance of those who continue to do evil deeds until death faces one of them and he says "Now I repent;" nor of those who die while they are disbelievers. For them We have prepared a painful torment.

Fear Allah now! Do not follow other that the Curer!

drfazl

Millions of women's womanly parts were removed because the doctors were chop happy evil satanists? I love the flair for the dramatic, and the lack of logic. You responded to my post with a rant that did not touch on any of what I said except a repetition of doctors are evil, adding a twist of systematic organ removal for god knows what irrelevant reason other than to bring in more histrionics the MM will have no option but surgical removal of the ailing organ and organs one after another, until finally you become a shell of bones and skin. See the direction of learning skills of the MM? Not at all in curing and making the organs to bounce back to life.

I'd listen to your posts if they had a musical soundtrack to them. Preferably plenty of drums and bass, so I can drown out the thoughts of facepalming repeatedly.

How poor logic! Listen with fun and frolic at what is being told from the truth happening around in their own vicinity. Listen to this

And if there had been a Quran with which mountains could be moved from their places, or the earth could be cloven asunder, or the dead could be made to speak it would not have been other than this Quran. But the decision of all things is certainly with Allah. Have not then those who believe yet known that had Allah willed, He could have guided all mankind? And a disaster will not cease to strike those who disbelieve because of their evil deeds or it settle close to their homes, until the Promise of Allah comes to pass. Certainly, Allah does not fail in His Promise.

You want to listen to this, in the part of forum where Allah's Name is praised much, with music and drums with fun? Then you remember this ayat!

And who is more unjust than those who forbid that Allah's Name be glorified and mentioned much in Allah's Mosques and strive for their ruin? It was not fitting that such should themselves enter them except in fear. For them there is disgrace in this world, and they will have a great torment in the Hereafter.

drfazl

Aoa

& does that apply to you as we'll ( would explain your posts) if so how do you know that your thinking or understanding is not effected by your "mind level disturbance".

Regards

Brilliant! I am only turning to Allah in repentance so that He guides me. What about you? Would you repent and follow in the same way?

drfazl

Millions of women's womanly parts were removed because the doctors were chop happy evil satanists? I love the flair for the dramatic, and the lack of logic. You responded to my post with a rant that did not touch on any of what I said except a repetition of doctors are evil, adding a twist of systematic organ removal for god knows what irrelevant reason other than to bring

It is on the other hand you love the dramatised stories of the people such as flood, boat, helicopters etc., repetition is the only choice while speaking the truth because the Truth is the same and cannot be changed to false hood until such time you come out of the intoxication of MM and begin to see logic. I hope you understand.

savage_carrot

How poor logic! Listen with fun and frolic at what is being told from the truth happening around in their own vicinity. Listen to this

And if there had been a Quran with which mountains could be moved from their places, or the earth could be cloven asunder, or the dead could be made to speak it would not have been other than this Quran. But the decision of all things is certainly with Allah. Have not then those who believe yet known that had Allah willed, He could have guided all mankind? And a disaster will not cease to strike those who disbelieve because of their evil deeds or it settle close to their homes, until the Promise of Allah comes to pass. Certainly, Allah does not fail in His Promise.

You want to listen to this, in the part of forum where Allah's Name is praised much, with music and drums with fun? Then you remember this ayat!

And who is more unjust than those who forbid that Allah's Name be glorified and mentioned much in Allah's Mosques and strive for their ruin? It was not fitting that such should themselves enter them except in fear. For them there is disgrace in this world, and they will have a great torment in the Hereafter.

This is surreal.

It is on the other hand you love the dramatised stories of the people such as flood, boat, helicopters etc., repetition is the only choice while speaking the truth because the Truth is the same and cannot be changed to false hood until such time you come out of the intoxication of MM and begin to see logic. I hope you understand.

You forgot the airplanes, they were important enough not to be etc-cised. What you're purporting to be the truth is literal extremism at best and severely irresponsible/dangerous at worst. You still haven't come up with where God says going to a doctor is an unforgivable sin but we do have verses like 16116.

oneandonly

Though I won't say no to an anti-nausea pill when my dad drives us anywhere. Saves paying for cleaning the inside of the car.

LOL hail

stillearning

Dear drfazl

Simple question first. I assume from your name above that dr stands for doctor if this is correct what kind of doctor are you.

Anyhow to the main topic. As you seem to have great difficulty answering any questions put to you I will try to keep my post simple and we will try to discuss factual issues rather than opinions.

I will try to explain what I mean by facts & opinions
K
Fact - as I don't know you and your physical characteristics for the sake of discussion I will use letters instead of numbers and you can fill in the facts if you wish. Your age is A, your height is B & your weight is X at this given time.

Opinion - your mother ( no doubt likely to be a very nice mother) thinks that your are a very intelligent boy, however many of us on this thread, on the evidence presented so far at least, think to the contrary. However as you will agree there is no right and wrong in this situation just two different views.
I will make an assumption here and assume that you agree with above and continue with post for you to respond.

You have made your views on vaccines and doctors etc fairly clear. Hence let us take an example

Small pox is a deadly virus, responsible for significant number of deaths. I know my own family members and other individuals who perished from the disease in my little village where I was born prior to the introduction of small pox a vaccination. It's existence and effects are well documented & you don't need to be an Einstein to discover them.

Since the Vaccination programme was started by WHO, I think in the sixties - may haves been earlier, small pox has been virtually eradicated from the planet and only exists in the laboratories for research purposes.

I would like you to simply address the evils of small pox vaccination and why you think eradication of small pox infection is so against Gods will.

Please don't go of in one of your rants just address the smallpox issue.

Regards

justamuslim

After my explanation to your query you seem to pose the same question over and over again...

When I tried explaining you little by little starting from my # post 87, without answering you drove me back to provide evidence that you hated God. Now suddenly you jump back to MM subject and say "I am explaining this and that!" You see my post I have given 2272 which says about mentioning God Alone, makes the haters angry. Even now I say I am against "God-Also" category. Calling you as God hater is wrong I know. I am referring you as God Alone hater. Read 14 and see for yourself if you could seek the Help of others other than the God?

First confirm and fix which subject you want to discuss and then stick to that topic.

So what you are saying is that it is my fault that you have not answered my questions.

An honest person speaks his truths clearly and simply. I asked you a simple question. How is Down syndrome caused by doctors? You are yet to answer. Instead you have been all over the place with your rambling and calling me God hater and God alone hater and so on and on.

You make allegations about me and expect me to remain silent? Why don't you stop blaming me and answer my question which I keep asking over and over again because you are yet to answer. How is Down syndrome causd by doctors? What drug or vaccine is the cause of down syndrome? Can you provide references.

I brought up Down syndrome as an example as it is the most common occurring chromosomal condition. There is a long list of chromosomal disorder. Turners, klinefelters, DiGeorge syndrome, etc.

There are deformities to the fetus from exposure to infections such as chickenpox, CMV, toxoplasmosis, etc.

Fetuses who are exposed to smoking, alcohol, cocaine, heroin, caffeine, high levels of mercury and many other environment factors are affected and born with disabilities.

so again, how are doctors responsible for disabilities which is what you said. Instead of accusing me of hating God, and God alone and being a God also person, calling doctors evil shaytan and alledging that going to the doctor is an unforgivable sin, why not answer the questions simply.

Again, I will ask

how are chromosomal disorders like Down syndrome caused by doctors?
how are doctors responsible for birth defects or disabilities caused by exposure of chickenpox virus during pregnancy?
how are doctors responsible for in utero exposure of caffeine, smoking, alcohol?

Can you answer the above questions in simple manner without rambling on. I want a straight forward answer from you.

unknownuser

Sorry it's just interupting.

I never involved in the discussion because I'm not a medical practicer, but just observating it.

The funny is sis justamuslim repeated her questions many many times for nearly one week ;D

drfazl

So what you are saying is that it is my fault that you have not answered my questions.

An honest person speaks his truths clearly and simply. I asked you a simple question. How is Down syndrome caused by doctors? You are yet to answer. Instead you have been all over the place with your rambling and calling me God hater and God alone hater and so on and on.

You make allegations about me and expect me to remain silent? Why don't you stop blaming me and answer my question which I keep asking over and over again because you are yet to answer. How is Down syndrome causd by doctors? What drug or vaccine is the cause of down syndrome? Can you provide references.

I brought up Down syndrome as an example as it is the most common occurring chromosomal condition. There is a long list of chromosomal disorder. Turners, klinefelters, DiGeorge syndrome, etc.

There are deformities to the fetus from exposure to infections such as chickenpox, CMV, toxoplasmosis, etc.

Fetuses who are exposed to smoking, alcohol, cocaine, heroin, caffeine, high levels of mercury and many other environment factors are affected and born with disabilities.

so again, how are doctors responsible for disabilities which is what you said. Instead of accusing me of hating God, and God alone and being a God also person, calling doctors evil shaytan and alledging that going to the doctor is an unforgivable sin, why not answer the questions simply.

Again, I will ask

how are chromosomal disorders like Down syndrome caused by doctors?
how are doctors responsible for birth defects or disabilities caused by exposure of chickenpox virus during pregnancy?
how are doctors responsible for in utero exposure of caffeine, smoking, alcohol?

Can you answer the above questions in simple manner without rambling on. I want a straight forward answer from you.

I have already started replying to you. Have you not read my reply in # 115? Will you start replying now at least so that you cam understand in a simple way? This way is the best way even non medical people would get benefited. Doctors are responsible for all the three questions you had posed here? Reply to post # 115.

I will simply ignore all your companions and answer only you. MM DOCTORS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE WORLD HEALTH HAZARD.

If you again ask the same question ignoring # 115, you accept you are in no mood to get into discussion for reasons you will only know. From this point I ignore savage, oneandonly, stilllearning, completely to concentrate teaching the interested people how MM catastrophe plaguing the mankind, using you.

savage_carrot

Great. So after repeatedly not responding to the content in my posts, you say you'll start ignoring my posts laugh

justamuslim

MM IS THE REASON BEHIND DS

Justamuslim

Your post #78 with topic "About medication" that constituted 25 paragraphs. I wanted to give you detailed answer to you to each and every paragraph so that you would know the drugs and the doctors who prescribed MM drugs are the sole reasons for DS and I started this in my post # 85. But then in your next post, you side tracked again to God Hate, God Alone, and God Also subject. Then joined savage carrot messing up all discussion and you stayed as a silent spectator.

Now it is between you and me to deal with the subject Down Syndrome caused by the doctors alone. Until our exchanges of opinions are over, I will ignore savage carrot completely.

For your comfort I cut and paste here the answer #85 I started for your post #78.

MM is the sole Cause for Down Syndrome

Justamuslim, you wrote
Every medication has side effects - some fatal, life threatening, causing permanent harm. in the United States, when you pick up medication from the pharmacy, they give you a list of potential side effects for that medication.

Sister, I hope we will both not get offended or feel other than peace. Allah would deliver us from our inconsistencies.

Since you are a medico first I would like to hear from you the basic, general and fundamental scientific reason or through common sense as to the cause of adverse effects for any single medicine. I am sure you should be able to say from scientific angle. If you fail to say then I will choose to answer you from both scientific angle and through common sense. Our discussion should enlighten so many who follow our exchange of views. If the side effects are life threatening, fatal causing permanent harm, then for the others it could be a slow poison, crippling him slowly and steadily; and in some with intermittent aggravated response. You will call it hypersensitivity reaction. On the one hand it is massive, immediate, rapid and instant killing organs or the person as a whole suddenly, or cripple him slowly with delayed hypersensitivity. The list of adverse effects given by the pharma people is all fraudulent, concealing most side effects lest it would alarm the patients. So let us enter the subject.

I will go through your entire post 25 paragraphs, One by one. By Allah you will find my answers subtle and agreeable. Before I proceed, I will wait for your answer.

Can you tell me where in this post of yours that you have answered my questions? Can you highlight the parts. You keep making allegations claiming that doctors are the sole cause of Down syndrome but can you explain how? What did the the doctors do that lead to this chromosomal disorder? What medication or vaccine or whatever your claim and can you provide references?

Instead of going off on your rambling, why don't you explain to us all here what medication or vaccine or what doctors did that caused this chromosomal disorder?

stillearning

Aoa

This is becoming hilarious

Again, I will ask

how are chromosomal disorders like Down syndrome caused by doctors?
how are doctors responsible for birth defects or disabilities caused by exposure of chickenpox virus during pregnancy?
how are doctors responsible for in utero exposure of caffeine, smoking, alcohol?
MM is the sole Cause for Down Syndrome

So there you are folks that has answered your questions, the logic, the intellect and the amount of factual information is breathtaking. How on earth can there be any doubt left now. AMAZING!

supportpeacenotwar

Maybe its the way that Drfazl has presented his beliefs/evidence/opinions that has caused the response to him - some people think its extreme or harsh. But - I've seen others present opinions in a harsh way either being pro or anti homosexuality, or even just being pro-Quran - there can be people who say to us why can't you accept all religions, why just one? Then we could all live more peacefully if we all accepted the validity of each others religions... apparently. To them we may seem extreme, because we want to establish the validity of solely one way. (Although we recognise that other religions have some elements of truth here and there.)

And the thing is the way some people are saying drfazl can't give explanations for certain topics and then things just starting to get more antagonistic in terms of the style of the discussion - and some may disagree, but lets face it there are different styles of discussion and as human beings we can tell the difference instantly. Hence, that's the reason I choose to stay out of certain types of discussion.

Or there is also a bit of mockery - what about atheists when they ask about Jonah and the whale in the Quran? And we might say well we don't know the entire story or the possibilities, we trust God. What drfazl is doing is somewhat similar.

And atheists would also say to us we repeated the same questions but they give the same apparently 'unfulfilling' response, even though it is a response from our beliefs, but it is not the one they want. I'm just saying, there are different ways of looking at this.

I haven't read too much of what drfazl says to know how much I agree with him. I agree with trust in God but I believe God gives us different methods for healing although there is an industry that people should be aware of. But I just felt like I wanted to add that, to help (if it does help) the 'underdog'.

justamuslim

Maybe its the way that Drfazl has presented his beliefs/evidence/opinions that has caused the response to him - some people think its extreme or harsh. But - I've seen others present opinions in a harsh way either being pro or anti homosexuality, or even just being pro-Quran - there can be people who say to us why can't you accept all religions, why just one? Then we could all live more peacefully if we all accepted the validity of each others religions... apparently. To them we may seem extreme, because we want to establish the validity of solely one way. (Although we recognise that other religions have some elements of truth here and there.)

And the thing is the way some people are saying drfazl can't give explanations for certain topics and then things just starting to get more antagonistic in terms of the style of the discussion - and some may disagree, but lets face it there are different styles of discussion and as human beings we can tell the difference instantly. Hence, that's the reason I choose to stay out of certain types of discussion.

Or there is also a bit of mockery - what about atheists when they ask about Jonah and the whale in the Quran? And we might say well we just don't know the entire story or the possibilities, we trust God. What drfazl is doing is somewhat similar.

And atheists would also say to us we repeated the same questions but they give the same apparently 'unfulfilling' response, even though it is a response from our beliefs just not the one they want. I'm just saying, there are different ways of looking at this.

I haven't read too much of what drfazl says to know how much I agree with him. I agree with trust in God but I believe God gives us different methods for healing although there is an industry that people should be aware of. But I just felt like I wanted to add that, to help (if it does help) the 'underdog'.

Have you read drfazls other posts besides the ones here on this thread? He makes claims calling doctors shaytan and anyone who sees a doctor is committing a sin and it is unforgivable and so on. These are not just differences in view points similar to having a discussion or disagreeing views on homosexuality for instance.

I beg to differ that what drfazl is doing is similar to atheist asking about whale and Jonah. Drfazl has made himself clear.

So if some person here listens and is influenced by all this preaching by drfazl and he gets bitten by a poisonous snake but doesn't seek medical attention and ends up dying, I sure would be interesting in knowing what your position would be.

Before supporting "underdog" (if I understood you correctly), you might want to know who and what you are supporting.

Drfazl here ultimately has to answer to God (not me) at the end as each of us here are personally accountable and responsible for our actions.

stillearning

Aoa supporteacenotwar

Admire your concern for an underdog, however this is not a football, soccer or cricket match.
Plus I doubt he considers himself to be an underdog after all according to him we are with the shaitan and he has God on his side. So really there is no contest really (whatever the contest is)
drafzal has made some really v unpleasant comments & outrageous claims both dangerous and offensive see quote from justamuslim below

so again, how are doctors responsible for disabilities which is what you said. Instead of accusing me of hating God, and God alone and being a God also person, calling doctors evil shaytan and alledging that going to the doctor is an unforgivable sin, why not answer the questions simply.

Hence if you support him you think doctors are evil and those visiting a them are sinners. That's virtually most of the human race done for.

Regards