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  4. What is Islam?

What is Islam?

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  • M Offline
    M Offline
    muslims
    wrote on last edited by
    #31

    Salam savage_carrot,

    Everything is, yes. Whether willingly or unwillingly.

    yes.

    My point Iblees is prostrating to Allah at all material times, and you have agreed.

    It does not matter willingly or unwillingly.

    What matter is the facts that Iblees is prostrating to Allah, till this moment and forever.

    He was a malaika commanded to obey his Lord's directive.

    You are saying Iblees is "malaika" (reference?).

    Then would it be reasonable to accept the facts that ..
    He is prostrating to "Allah Alone" prior to the creation of Adam?
    He does not associate anyone with Allah?

    I'm kind of confused however, what is the argument from your side?

    You can refer to post #1

    Peace.

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    • S Offline
      S Offline
      savage_carrot
      wrote on last edited by
      #32

      It does not matter willingly or unwillingly.

      If you think so, okay.

      You are saying Iblees is "malaika" (reference?).

      234

      Then would it be reasonable to accept the facts that ..
      He is prostrating to "Allah Alone" prior to the creation of Adam?
      He does not associate anyone with Allah?
      When you say willing or unwilling is irrelevant then what's the point of singling out iblis' prostration to Allah Alone or associating whatsoever whenever? Everything prostrates, end of. And not just in that scenario.

      You can refer to post #1

      There is no evidence in the Quran
      that Iblees prostrate to any other than Allah

      Iblees prostrate to "Allah Alone"

      Iblees is "Allah Alone"
      Why single out iblis as prostrating to 'Allah Alone' when everything does? If you don't factor the willingness or lack thereof, then it's just selective for no good reason.

      peace

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      • S Offline
        S Offline
        savage_carrot
        wrote on last edited by
        #33

        Both red words are not in the Ayah. Relative Pronoun "Man" relates to living. There is conjunction Waw not Auo.

        The statement of the translator is patently contrary to ground realities. Billiond of people do not prostrate. The Arabic text does not say what English sentence suggests.

        The accusative endings reveal both the words as relating to circumstances in which the act is done.

        Be aware; He who is living-exists in the Skies and the Earth submits humbly in surrender; and will acknowledge and submit humbly in surrender for Allah the Exalted; in the states arising on willful acceptance-acknowledgement with reverence; and under compulsion of coercive circumstances.

        I can't understand your translation, Mazhar. Are you saying that Allah exists in the skies... and the earth only and only living beings on said earth submits humbly in surrender according to your translation? We have examples of smoke/sky and earth given choices (4111) and think that consciousness is a matter of much debate. If you think you can clarify, please start a new thread in the appropriate section, I'd be interested in reading what you make of consciousness as mentioned in the quran and what it can mean in the context of the many different scenario's presented therein. Thanks.

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        • M Offline
          M Offline
          Man_of_Faith
          wrote on last edited by
          #34

          Salaam,

          God means that if He so wills no one has a choice but to obey. He can make anyone do something against their will should He so desire.

          God bless you

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          • S Offline
            S Offline
            savage_carrot
            wrote on last edited by
            #35

            Salaam,

            God means that if He so wills no one has a choice but to obey. He can make anyone do something against their will should He so desire.

            God bless you

            It makes little to no sense for God to force someone to make choices they didn't want to make, since that makes said choices meaningless. The system would be streamlined/efficient, the choices that we make would be ours and factored into the program, while the program would still execute according to the designed plan, the will of God. I think that we might be confusing our choices with that of God's will or in other words, God's system. We all have no choice in that regard but to submit to the system, since we are present therein, but we do have the capacity to make our choices...and those can't change the system/program in place. It will unfold as it must, we are either with the flow, drifting or against it, what determines our success or failure.

            peace

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            • F Offline
              F Offline
              faruk
              wrote on last edited by
              #36

              It makes little to no sense for God to force someone to make choices they didn't want to make, since that makes said choices meaningless. The system would be streamlined/efficient, the choices that we make would be ours and factored into the program, while the program would still execute according to the designed plan, the will of God. I think that we might be confusing our choices with that of God's will or in other words, God's system. We all have no choice in that regard but to submit to the system, since we are present therein, but we do have the capacity to make our choices...and those can't change the system/program in place. It will unfold as it must, we are either with the flow, drifting or against it, what determines our success or failure.

              peace

              Salam,

              Well said. Now I think I'm starting to understand the apparent contradiction of free will and all prevailing God's will .

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              • M Offline
                M Offline
                muslims
                wrote on last edited by
                #37

                Salam,

                A picture is worth a thousand words.

                This what we should be doing.

                http//s16.postimg.org/805wdizsj/Islam.png

                However, this is what we are doing today.

                Standing up on "what is right or wrong on each separate elements".

                Fire Based Religion Hinduism, Sunni Islam, Shia Islam, Khawarij Islam etc.

                Air Based Religion Christianity, Da'wah Islam, Political Islam etc.

                Water Based Religion Buddhism, Atheism, Sufi Islam, Tasawwuf, Educational Islam etc.

                Earth Based Religion Judaism, Quranism Islam, Wahabi Islam etc.

                Therefore, can we say any of the above religions is "Din of Islam"?

                Nope, it is a religion.

                And whoever seeks a "dnan" (&#1575 other than Islam
                it will NEVER be accepted of him
                and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers
                (385)

                This is what happened today within the Islamic World.

                And they say

                "None will enter Paradise except one who is a Jew or a Christian."

                That is their wishful thinking

                Say, "Produce your proof, if you should be truthful."

                Yes
                whoever submits his face in Islam to Allah
                while being a doer of good
                will have his reward with his Lord
                And no fear will there be concerning them
                nor will they grieve.

                The Jews say

                "The Christians have nothing to stand on,"

                and the Christians say

                "The Jews have nothing to stand on,"

                although they recite the Scripture.

                Thus the polytheists speak the same as their words.

                But Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection
                concerning that over which they used to differ

                And who are more unjust than those
                who prevent the name of Allah from being mentioned in His mosques (system?)
                and strive toward their destruction
                It is not for them to enter them except in fear
                For them in this world is disgrace
                and they will have in the Hereafter a great punishment

                And to Allah belongs the east and the west
                So wherever you turn
                there is the Face of Allah
                Indeed, Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing

                (2111-115)

                "And to Allah belongs the east and the west"

                To Allah belongs the direction (intention, kiblah) and whatever you do (action, amal, madhab, religion).

                As long you are in Islam to Allah and doer of good

                "wherever you might turn"

                "there is the Face of Allah"

                "No fear will there be concerning them"

                "nor will they grieve"

                Now, just a philosophical statement...

                as to the meaning of solat

                http//s13.postimg.org/f0sag5q85/solat.png

                Fire = South = Law and order = Alif = Asmaullah = and so on...
                Air = West = Communication/Humanity = Lam = Afaalullah = and so on...
                Water = East = Knowledge/Expertise = Lam = Sifatullah = and so on...
                Earth = North = Persistence/Ground/Humble = Ha = Dzatullah = and so on...

                Fire + Air + Water + Earth/Soil = Planet of Earth - Sunnatullah

                The formula to combine all the above elements is "just and balance" (Sunnatullah)

                Since, "just and balance" has no religion.

                Equally, the same principle can be applied to the business world, family institution or any other areas, ie. Policy, Communication, Expertise, and Persistence/Humble. It does not matter what you do, or how big is the tasks at hand or how big is your struggle with Islam. It is about monitoring and balancing these elements in whatever tasks in hand, balancing it in our life.

                Solat. Perfection (Khusyu&#039.

                This is jihad.

                Peace.

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                • M Offline
                  M Offline
                  muslims
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #38

                  Jihad

                  And those who believe in Allah and His Messengers
                  they are the Siddiqun
                  and the martyrs (syahid) with their Lord
                  they shall have their reward and their light
                  But those who disbelieve
                  and deny Our Ayat (disobedience)
                  they shall be the dwellers of the blazing Fire
                  (<a href="http//quran.com/57/19">5719</a&gt

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                  • M Offline
                    M Offline
                    Man_of_Faith
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #39

                    Salaam Savage_Carrot,

                    This was what I meant with my short phrases. Thank you.

                    God bless you

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                    • M Offline
                      M Offline
                      muslims
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #40

                      Salam,

                      I believe if it is true that Muhammad was performing solah.

                      He is not communicating the "ritual prayer", and the idea of religion.

                      He knew that the Ummah will revert back to the "idea of religion" and "rituals".

                      Therefore, he is communicating and preserving the "meaning of Islam from that ritual prayer"

                      The same way how human communicate and preserving messages thousand years ago.

                      Through "symbols" and "statues".

                      Is he brilliant or not? )

                      Peace

                      And in whatever thing you disagree <-- Formula for Unity - "Quran Alone" vs. "Allah Alone"
                      the judgment thereof is (in) Allah's (hand)
                      that is Allah
                      my Lord
                      on Him do I rely
                      and to Him do I turn
                      time after time

                      The Originator of the heavens and the earth

                      He made mates for you from among yourselves <-- Differences / Descriptions
                      and mates of the cattle too
                      multiplying you thereby
                      nothing like a likeness of Him
                      and He is the Hearing
                      the Seeing

                      His are the treasures of the heavens and the earth
                      He makes ample and straitens the means of subsistence
                      for whom He pleases
                      surely He is Cognizant of all things

                      He has made plain to you <-- What is Islam
                      of the Din (l-dni)
                      what He enjoined upon Nuh
                      and that which We have revealed to you
                      and that which We enjoined upon Ibrahim
                      and Musa
                      and Isa
                      that keep to obedience
                      and be not divided therein

                      hard to the unbelievers is that which you call them to <-- Challenges - Mushrikeen (<a href="http//quran.com/30/32">3032</a&gt

                      Allah chooses for Himself whom He pleases
                      and guides to Himself him who turns (to Him), frequently

                      And they did not become divided <-- Religion & Division
                      until after knowledge had come to them
                      out of envy among themselves

                      and had not a word gone forth from your Lord till an appointed term
                      certainly judgment would have been given between them
                      and those who were made to inherit the Book after them
                      are most surely in disquieting doubt concerning it

                      To this then go on inviting <-- Task for Muslims
                      and go on steadfastly
                      on the right way
                      as you are commanded
                      and do not follow their low desires
                      and say

                      I believe in what Allah has revealed of the Book
                      and I am commanded to do justice between you <-- role as Mediators and Conciliators
                      Allah is our Lord and your Lord vs. Provoker & create more divisions
                      we shall have our deeds
                      and you shall have your deeds
                      no plea need there be (now) between us and you
                      Allah will gather us together
                      and to Him is the return

                      And (as for) those who dispute about Allah <-- Warning
                      after that obedience has been rendered to Him
                      their plea is null with their Lord
                      and upon them is wrath
                      and for them is severe punishment

                      (<a href="http//quran.com/42/10-16">4210-16</a&gt

                      A Muslim must now learn how to become Negotiator, Mediator and Conciliator. There is no religion and it is not about to spread Islam, since Islam is not a religion. It is about to spread peace, harmony and unity in the society. It's about benefiting humanity, kindness to His creation and giving to relatives. This is how people from different backgrounds and traditions are able to accept Islam by our Prophet Muhammad pbuh. Unconditional acceptance (respect) of world religious practices and balancing what is just to every living creatures. This is "Din of Islam".

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                      • M Offline
                        M Offline
                        muslims
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #41

                        Salam

                        "Allah Alone"
                        = Prostrate to Allah Alone
                        = Sunni
                        = Syiah
                        = Khawarij
                        = Muktazilah
                        = Tasawuf
                        = Sufism
                        = Wahabi
                        = Quranism etc.

                        God/Self Alone
                        = Hinduism
                        = Buddhism
                        = Christian
                        = Judaism
                        = Atheism (Self = God)
                        = Other religions etc

                        "Qur'an Alone" (Book, Guidance)
                        = Prostrate to Allah + Sunnatullah (Khalif)
                        = Objective of Khalif -> Manager (To understand Just and Balance - To understand Sunnatullah)
                        = Manager -> To manage the Earth -> Negotiator, Mediator and Conciliator
                        = To bring Balance
                        -> Balance bring Justice
                        -> Justice bring Harmony
                        -> Harmony bring Security
                        -> Security bring Happiness
                        -> Happiness bring Love
                        -> Love bring Satisfaction
                        -> Satisfaction bring Alhamdulillah
                        -> Alhamdulillah bring Fear (of losing Allah's attention/guidance etc ..
                        as those person who are in deep love)
                        -> Fear will motivate us to become better human being -> Khalif
                        -> Khalif -> Reality
                        -> Reality -> Allah
                        = Din of Islam

                        Peace

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                        • M Offline
                          M Offline
                          muslims
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #42

                          FIRE

                          (Philosophical aspect - Fire is always in a standing position - Hablum Minallah)

                          http//s13.postimg.org/f0sag5q85/solat.png

                          Law and order within ourselves, not to others.

                          We are giving unconditional freedom to others according to the Qur'an, promoting peace and harmony.

                          We cannot change others, we can only change ourselves.

                          Fire -> South -> Asmaullah -> Alif -> Standing position

                          What should we stand for, within ourselves?

                          1. Allah and the Qur'an (Hadith) as our guidance.

                          2. The attributes in the 99 names of Allah.

                          These qualities should be existed in ourselves.

                          1 The Greatest Name Allah
                          2 The All-Compassionate Ar-Rahman
                          3 The All-Merciful Ar-Rahim
                          4 The Absolute Ruler Al-Malik
                          5 The Pure One Al-Quddus
                          6 The Source of Peace As-Salam
                          7 The Inspirer of Faith Al-Mu'min
                          8 The Guardian Al-Muhaymin
                          9 The Victorious Al-Aziz
                          10 The Compeller Al-Jabbar
                          11 The Greatest Al-Mutakabbir
                          12 The Creator Al-Khaliq
                          13 The Maker of Order Al-Bari'
                          14 The Shaper of Beauty Al-Musawwir
                          15 The Forgiving Al-Ghaffar
                          16 The Subduer Al-Qahhar
                          17 The Giver of All Al-Wahhab
                          18 The Sustainer Ar-Razzaq
                          19 The Opener Al-Fattah
                          20 The Knower of All Al-Alim 21 The Constrictor Al-Qabid 22 The Reliever Al-Basit 23 The Abaser Al-Khafid 24 The Exalter Ar-Rafi 25 The Bestower of Honors Al-Mu'izz 26 The Humiliator Al-Mudhill 27 The Hearer of All As-Sami 28 The Seer of All Al-Basir 29 The Judge Al-Hakam 30 The Just Al-Adl
                          31 The Subtle One Al-Latif
                          32 The All-Aware Al-Khabir
                          33 The Forbearing Al-Halim
                          34 The Magnificent Al-Azim
                          35 The Forgiver and Hider of Faults Al-Ghafur
                          36 The Rewarder of Thankfulness Ash-Shakur
                          37 The Highest Al-Ali
                          38 The Greatest Al-Kabir
                          39 The Preserver Al-Hafiz
                          40 The Nourisher Al-Muqit
                          41 The Accounter Al-Hasib
                          42 The Mighty Al-Jalil
                          43 The Generous Al-Karim
                          44 The Watchful One Ar-Raqib
                          45 The Responder to Prayer Al-Mujib
                          46 The All-Comprehending Al-Wasi
                          47 The Perfectly Wise Al-Hakim
                          48 The Loving One Al-Wadud
                          49 The Majestic One Al-Majid
                          50 The Resurrector Al-Ba'ith
                          51 The Witness Ash-Shahid
                          52 The Truth Al-Haqq
                          53 The Trustee Al-Wakil
                          54 The Possessor of All Strength Al-Qawiyy
                          55 The Forceful One Al-Matin
                          56 The Governor Al-Waliyy
                          57 The Praised One Al-Hamid
                          58 The Appraiser Al-Muhsi
                          59 The Originator Al-Mubdi'
                          60 The Restorer Al-Mu'id
                          61 The Giver of Life Al-Muhyi
                          62 The Taker of Life Al-Mumit
                          63 The Ever Living One Al-Hayy
                          64 The Self-Existing One Al-Qayyum
                          65 The Finder Al-Wajid
                          66 The Glorious Al-Majid
                          67 The One, the All Inclusive, The Indivisible Al-Wahid
                          68 The Satisfier of All Needs As-Samad
                          69 The All Powerful Al-Qadir
                          70 The Creator of All Power Al-Muqtadir
                          71 The Expediter Al-Muqaddim
                          72 The Delayer Al-Mu'akhkhir
                          73 The First Al-Awwal
                          74 The Last Al-Akhir
                          75 The Manifest One Az-Zahir
                          76 The Hidden One Al-Batin
                          77 The Protecting Friend Al-Wali
                          78 The Supreme One Al-Muta'ali
                          79 The Doer of Good Al-Barr
                          80 The Guide to Repentance At-Tawwab
                          81 The Avenger Al-Muntaqim
                          82 The Forgiver Al-'Afuww
                          83 The Clement Ar-Ra'uf
                          84 The Owner of All Malik-al-Mulk
                          85 The Lord of Majesty and Bounty Dhu-al-Jalal wa-al-Ikram
                          86 The Equitable One Al-Muqsit
                          87 The Gatherer Al-Jami'
                          88 The Rich One Al-Ghani
                          89 The Enricher Al-Mughni
                          90 The Preventer of Harm Al-Mani'
                          91 The Creator of The Harmful Ad-Darr
                          92 The Creator of Good An-Nafi'
                          93 The Light An-Nur
                          94 The Guide Al-Hadi
                          95 The Originator Al-Badi
                          96 The Everlasting One Al-Baqi
                          97 The Inheritor of All Al-Warith
                          98 The Righteous Teacher Ar-Rashid
                          99 The Patient One As-Sabur

                          We cannot expect to enter Allah's heaven without these attributes.

                          Living happily in heaven while our action is inconsistent with Allah's attributes, Allah wishes?

                          Therefore, we should understand Allah's attributes, and mirror it in our daily action.

                          How to understand?

                          From reading the Qur'an, and it's priority according to the Allah's command in the Qur'an.

                          These are the conducts that are "Just and Balance".

                          Conducts that will qualify for the Allah's heaven, and conduct of the Prophets.

                          Righteous conduct .. to understand and "balance" all these attributes within ourselves.

                          Peace.

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                          • M Offline
                            M Offline
                            muslims
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #43

                            And not just in that scenario.Why single out iblis as prostrating to 'Allah Alone' when everything does? If you don't factor the willingness or lack thereof, then it's just selective for no good reason.

                            Salam,

                            Angels prostrate to Allah and Adam.

                            Peace.

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                            • M Offline
                              M Offline
                              muslims
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #44

                              Salam savage_carrot and Ors.,

                              Premise 1 Allah is "1" (<a href="http//quran.com/112">Sura 112</a&gt
                              Premise 2 Creation is "0"
                              Conclusion Therefore, nothing exists independently and outside/inside* of Allah.

                              • There is no outside or inside. There is only Allah, since Allah is "1".

                              #36 And to Allah belongs the east and the west
                              So wherever you turn
                              there is the Face of Allah

                              Thus the issues ...

                              What are the differences between Allah and His Creation?
                              What's the line separating Allah and His Creation, from the Qur'an?

                              The answer is in the Qur'an, and for those who are searching for truth and knows the reality; Comparison

                              • La ilaha illallah.
                              • Those who are "Idol Worshippers"/"God Alone"; ie. God =1, Creation = 1.1, 1.2, 1.3.. (division)
                              • Definition of "god' (<a href="http//quran.com/45/23">4523</a&gt.
                              • Whether Allah is God/god?
                              • What is "matter"?

                              Please correct me if I'm wrong; ie. that Allah is "1", and the Creation is "1".

                              Peace.

                              And when your Lord said to the angels
                              "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority"
                              They said,
                              "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood
                              while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?"
                              Allah said
                              "Indeed, I know that which you do not know"
                              (<a href="http//quran.com/2/30">230</a&gt

                              And when We said to the angels
                              "Prostrate before Adam" <- "Allah or God Alone" vs "Qur'an Alone" (Allah's command)

                              so they prostrated

                              except for Iblees
                              He refused
                              and was arrogant
                              and became of
                              the disbelievers
                              (<a href="http//quran.com/2/34">234</a&gt

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                                D Offline
                                DrGm
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #45

                                Premise 1 Allah is "1" (<a href="http//quran.com/112">Sura 112</a&gt
                                Premise 2 Creation is "0"
                                Please correct me if I'm wrong; ie. that Allah is "1", and the Creation is "1".

                                Peace.

                                peace,

                                Allah is "0" - cannot be seen / beyond knowledge

                                creation is "1" - can be seen / within knowledge

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                                • M Offline
                                  M Offline
                                  muslims
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #46

                                  peace,

                                  Allah is "0" - cannot be seen / beyond knowledge

                                  creation is "1" - can be seen / within knowledge

                                  Salam DrGm,

                                  So you are saying creation is "within knowledge"

                                  and Allah is not within our knowledge.

                                  Whatever within our knowledge is "1"

                                  Therefore, Allah is "0" .. and Creation is "1"

                                  The question...

                                  What is existence?

                                  How do you know you exist?

                                  Can you prove to me your existence?

                                  Peace.

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                                  • M Offline
                                    M Offline
                                    muslims
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #47

                                    Say He is Allah, the One! (<a href="http//quran.com/112/1">1121</a&gt

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                                      D Offline
                                      DrGm
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #48

                                      Salam DrGm,

                                      So you are saying creation is "within knowledge"

                                      and Allah is not within our knowledge.

                                      Therefore, Allah is "0" .. and Creation is "1"

                                      The question...

                                      How do you know you exist?

                                      Peace.

                                      peace,

                                      • i believe.
                                      • creation can be seen. so you ask How do you know you exist? this is within knowledge.
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                                      • M Offline
                                        M Offline
                                        muslims
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #49

                                        peace,

                                        • i believe.
                                        • creation can be seen. so you ask How do you know you exist? this is within knowledge.

                                        Salam DrGm,

                                        What you have seen, is what have been interpreted by your "eyes", "senses" and "mind".

                                        Internal vs. External, and this is not proof since your external image merely existed in your internal interpretation of self. It is only what you have seen (external) in your mind (internal). The whole world and creation is only existed in your mind. It is an image in your mind, the same way we are watching television.

                                        Similarly, how do you know your "eyes" and "mind" exist?

                                        Please prove to me that it is within your knowledge, that you exist, that you are "1".

                                        Peace.

                                        p/s more explanation, watch <a href="http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqnEGu8VF8Y">Perception - The reality beyond matter</a>

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                                          DrGm
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #50

                                          peace,

                                          when u ask a question to others / outside u then it is division. each division is one. meaning different, not same.

                                          when u ask question to self. then it is one, existence

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