Abortion?
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Awlaad are born persons. Abortion refers to unborn creatures.
I beg to differ.
Was Jesus (pbuh) born when his chaste and virtuous mother said My Lord! How can I have a child () when no human hath touched me? {347} !? Nay! he was not. Further, in Aramaic (just the most similar and closely related language to Quranic Arabic), wld means fetus, newborn, and offspring.
SLM
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Was Jesus (pbuh) born when his chaste and virtuous mother said My Lord! How can I have a child (د when no human hath touched me? {347} !? Nay! he was not.
I think it is plenty clear that what the ayas say
- He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous." (46) She said "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said "Even so Allah createth what He willeth When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is! (47)
It is plenty clear and obvious that the angels are talking to Maryam about a full person, not about an embryo or even a fetus.
As to the Aramaic, after what you have doen with the Arabic of the Qur'an I am not very enthsiastic as to what you could do with Aramaic. But even if you were right about the Aramaic, it does not say much. The Qur'an, according to itself is in Arabi not in Aramaic, so we should stick to the Arabic Qur'an, and in the Arabic Qur'an, walad is a born person, not am embryo, not a fetus.
Salaam
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The command is clear and stands self-evident to anyone who wishes to feel from the heart.
The process of abortion, examine it. Or shall we call it what it is! Let's watch some videos together, perhaps?
What is yet more diseased is the way of being, which results in a person desiring to kill their child whether born or unborn.
In a quranically established mode of living there is a kind of wholesomeness and gentleness to one's actions. I cannot feel in any way shape or form that abortion is wholesome nor gentle, for the act of reaching inside the vaginal cavity and ripping a tender expression of the Divine from its mother is anything but wholesome and gentle!
I do understand personally that people may have their reasons. In such a case it may be wise to examine one's reasons in light of the quran and ultimately in the Light of The God, pure Divine Love.
This is quite a test! And let us be clear on one key point. All creatures belong to The God. A child does not belong to the mother, it is not the mother's property. The body itself does not belong to the mother except as a loan from The God. However, the body IS the mother and this is of course where things get rather intricate or delicate.
I will say simply one thing the act of abortion will generally do far far worse to the body-soul-heart of a female human being than carrying the child to term and giving it away. And I do not mean hormonal damage which is bounced back from but lifelong damage, let us say this. Genetics, epigenetics, mind feelings, all manner of things. When a person ends a life within their own womb, they must live with that for the rest of their life and indeed if you are believers you may understand they must live with it for eternity and answer to The One in whose hands is all Life, who creates with perfect purpose, wisdom and determination.
Satan sought to challenge the creator's authority, wisdom and determination in affairs. Let us see where this goes! Part of the act of abortion is arrogance, that a person's own pain and suffering is worth more than the Creator's pain and suffering, that a person's own wisdom and fear of poverty is greater than the Creator's wisdom and abundant grace;
or can you present an argument otherwise?peace
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... It is plenty clear and obvious that the angels are talking to Maryam about a full person, not about an embryo or even a fetus.
As to the Aramaic, after what you have doen with the Arabic of the Qur'an I am not very enthsiastic as to what you could do with Aramaic. But even if you were right about the Aramaic, it does not say much. The Qur'an, according to itself is in Arabi not in Aramaic, so we should stick to the Arabic Qur'an, and in the Arabic Qur'an, walad is a born person, not am embryo, not a fetus.Interpreting the noun walad as "a born person" is very poor, my brother!
In Arabic, (wld) simply means boy, child, or offspring.
And like (wld) in Aramaic, it can also mean fetus (from Latin ftus offspring); See Lane's Lexiconhttp//quranica.webs.com/wld%20Copy.jpg
The ms pl noun awld (د, in both 6151 and 1731, generally means offspring, and includes unborn children. Regardless, please point to the Quranic verse(s) that condemn (or support) abortion, according to your understanding.
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There is no aya in Qur'an that condemns or prohibits abortion. And there is no hint that the Qur'an considers an embryo or a fetus a child or person. I the Qur'an does not prohibit it, it is not prohibited. En 4.34 the salihat qanitat women are called hafiDhaat lilghaib, that is the virtuous are called guardians for the unseen that God guarded, so virtuous women are guardians of the embryo and the fetus. However there is not prohibition of abortion.
Salaam
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I don't think some of you understand the term abortion, at least in its English definition.
An abortion is the act of removing the foetus from the body, not necessarily wanted or voluntary. Millions of miscarriages across the world have abortions because
a) The foetus is already dead
b) The body does not always wash away the dead foetus, especially late term naturally, sometimes going full term with a dead foetus is harmful
c) Medical advancements means taking a procedure to remove a foetus is easier than the emotional stress of going several months with a dead body insideAs already quoted, the slaughter of a child out of fear of poverty is prohibited, so too is the slaughter of a child in gendercide (killing because they were an unwanted gender)
http//quran.com/81/8-9
And when the girl buried alive is asked
For what sin she was killed
We have to assume this would extend to pre-borns who have already started to react to stimulations (sound/feeling), this is already accounted for in many countries by limiting the abortion time to 16-24 weeks. The Quran does not condemn contraception, hence a couple deciding they don't want a child make an active choice in their sex life (or whether to even have one) to ensure pregnancy doesn't happen. I don't know how God feels about a couple who actively use contraception but get pregnant anyway (always a chance) who then choose to abort.
The question is though of pregnancies born of rape, I don't know if the Quran mentions this at all, surely her opinion has to be taken into account in whether her being a victim means her opinion is taken into account.
Regardless, voluntary abortion should always done as soon as possible, it doesn't take very long for a foetus to develop a working brain and start having experiences.
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Experience occurs from the point of intersection of a sperm and egg. That is when the spark of Life animates and begins Witnessing.
Appreciably this is a emotionally heavy debate but as again I will say thus the Way of Allah is wholesome, pure and wholesome. And gentle, gentlest. This extends to even the most uncanny aspects of life. For instance the fighting of oppressors/aggressors is still the gentlest fashion for Life as a whole to move forwards. To leave them to continue is worse for all! Both the oppressor continues in suffering deep within, and too the suffering of the oppressed. There is no satisfaction in being distanced from The God, in any way shape or form.
And I see people using the 'scientific' interpretation. If only you had known! The bridge between science and spirit is fusing and they are becoming of the same thing. Experience does not even begin in the brain. Consciousness pervades the cosmos, the Consciousness of The God. Every living substance feels and lives and has Self-Identity. A single celled bacterium has Self-Identity, it indeed does have a Soul/nafs. Of course some Souls/nafs are more developed than others and in the case of the human we are blown with the Ruh/Spirit/Breath which adds something more to the picture.
Now if on the day of judgement you would assuredly be asked about every single ant you stepped on in your life, for everything shall be asked of, everything and God is most Forgiving, Compassionate, Forbearing, then do you see wholesomeness in that?
There may also be conflation between two paths. The medical/last-resort abortion procedure where the mother is in dire need; we have cases -
A) Baby survives if birthed, mother dies
B) Baby dies either way, mother survives
C) Baby dies, mother dies if unabortedCase A seems the most nuanced. But is it? Let us consider The God is the Bestower of Life and also That who takes it away. Life belongs to The God, it is The God's property/creation to describe it one way yet it is far beyond property, it is Beingness, The God's Love far exceeds any love a human can present, for man is weak and The God is the Source of all strength.
So let us distinguish between that purpose and the far more common reason for taking of the life when two people decide to have sex for fun and realise a baby is part of the package, forgetting that for 4 billion years this is the primary reason for it. Fun is part of sex, sex is not part of fun. Put it that way. When sex is made as part of fun, hearts get hurt and people get raised for questioning by the One, the Supreme.
In one fashion of looking at it, an act occurs and a divine Gift is bestowed. In another fashion, fun is had and there is something unwanted which must be uh, terminated. We all know which of the two perspectives happens to make more sense here! When man is Just to his Lord and Maintainer, then The God is Graceful, when man is unjust to his Lord and Sustainer, then The God is Forgiving, Merciful, Just, Wise.One thing is for sure if the mother dies carrying the baby to term, she will not be asked about it.
I will say one thing. I remember the very point I entered into existence. And it was before even being a fetus. I have remembered this all through childhood, I keep it dear and close to my heart especially because most people do not remember or feel that they do not, at least - they cannot even comprehend that someone could!
I remember sitting in the womb and hearing the outside world and developing, for months, feeling that "this is taking a little while", blissfully and rapturously excited to get out of there and start Being. This is before I knew how babies were made or that they were even held in the womb, keep in mind.
If you look within, you too may remember this. Either way, from this Experience, as a conscious developing fetus of times gone by, I feel that abortion in any way shape or form is highly questionable.Ultimately I may say one thing please just face up to Reality and the sheer brunt of what is going on. The God fully knows and understands your emotions. The God created your emotions, created and fashioned their depth, intricacy, nuancity, complexity, knows your innermost desires. The God seeks for us all wholesomeness, righteousness, purity, ease of living, relaxation, tenderness, gentleness. If you have got yourself into a situation, believe me when I say this The God will get you out of it. Man cannot bring himself out of suffering, it is exclusively The God's domain to do that. But it takes an understanding of WHO puts food on your plate, WHO clothes you, WHO heals you when you are sick to truly comprehend this facet. Until you do, you may find yourself being led by the fancy and pleasing opinions of other men but this is no substitute for divine knowingness.
When it is a human's decision to terminate a Life which The God created, that is a Human's Supreme Will versus the God's will. Perhaps with the God's Will - Let us see!
peace
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There is no aya in Qur'an that condemns or prohibits abortion. And there is no hint that the Qur'an considers an embryo or a fetus a child or person. I the Qur'an does not prohibit it, it is not prohibited. En 4.34 the salihat qanitat women are called hafiDhaat lilghaib, that is the virtuous are called guardians for the unseen that God guarded, so virtuous women are guardians of the embryo and the fetus. However there is not prohibition of abortion.
wishful thinking.
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Whinful thinking yours. There is no prohibition of abortion in the Qur'a n, no matter how much you twist whatgever you want to make it mean what you want the Qur'an to say. The body of a woman is not a public property. It is between God and the woman not between society and the woman. Nowhere is it prohibited. Again I quote
"4.34 ... and virtuous and devout women are guardians for the unseen with what God guarded..."
Whether it is wrong or right it is between the woman and God, not between the woman and the public. God does not prohibit it. Those who do it will meet their Creitor just as the males that use women and leave no strings attached will have to answer to God. God knows. People do not know. People are tyrants when it comes to judging women who are in predicament. God has not given anybody that right.
You may twist words in the Qur'an to make it mean whatever you want, twist to your full pleasure, abortion is not prohibited in the Qur'an. God has not given anybody capacity to jkedge that. it is between Him and the woman, He has reserved for Himself that judgement. Men are not fit to judge that. Tyrany is the result of their intervening in that kind of thing. God does not approve of oppression. The keenness in fiscalising the privacy of women, prying to see how many things they can prohibit and punish and control is shocking specially when so little so very little is done to help them out in dire situations- It is shocking that societies run morally havoc and nobody does a damn thing but they wnat to get inside the woman and fiscalise her. Very shocking and very disgusting and UNQURANIC.
Salaam
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Witty questions won't get the Qur'an to say what it does not say nor grant to anybody what God has kept for Himself.
I find it commendable that you do not abort yourself, but I do not find virtuous at all to pry into other peoples business which God has kept for Himself nor to arrogate for self what is the purview of God. It seems to me that you do not trust women, but do you not trust God? God does trust Himself and keeps this matter to Himself, why so much keenness on wretching it from Him then?
Salaam
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Resorting to ad hominem and logical fallacies won't make the gibberish you say anymore valid! Your personal parti pris lacks any sense of objectivity, reason, morality, or any factual backing-up for that matter. Whether you like it or not, the fact remains that you've brought nothing to the table but mindless naysaying. Don't let the communication stop though! Keep talking. Someday you might just give tongue to something valid.
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Salaam,
Can anyone answer this
If a woman is raped and finds out that she is pregnant, does that mean she is obliged to keep the embryo until she gives birth to the fetus?
What would the society think of the child born because of rape?I am not asking the questions because I support abortion. I don't support abortion because it is so selfish especially when it is done by married couples or unmarried love couples who commit fornication/adultery. But what about rape victims?
Sorry for asking this.
Regards,
Yuliana -
God knows why people do every and each thing they do or they do not do. So whether selfish or unselfish for having a child or not having it, raped or not raped, God knows. He is the Judge. Human justice is unfit for many things, but ppride seems to be in high spirits when it takes up God's attributions.
Salaam
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Salaam,
Can anyone answer this
If a woman is raped and finds out that she is pregnant, does that mean she is obliged to keep the embryo until she gives birth to the fetus?
What would the society think of the child born because of rape?I am not asking the questions because I support abortion. I don't support abortion because it is so selfish especially when it is done by married couples or unmarried love couples who commit fornication/adultery. But what about rape victims?
Sorry for asking this.
Regards,
YulianaI have to believe that God would take the rape victim's opinion to account, as the distress can cause the growing baby to die anyway, in a much more painful way for both mother and baby. It is a form of double victimisation, as technically the rapist would have an equal right to see the child, perhaps in some cases even a stronger right than even the mother who would still be reliving the pain of being brutally sexually attacked, and this is just insane.
Unfortunately, the anti-abortion crowd don't seem to care about this and would be quite happy to see the mother die of suicide than have an abortion in early term.
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