Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Peace
Ramadhan (the month of fasting ) is likely to start to start during the last ten days of August because today is Rajab 1.
RegardsIt's the 21st
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Had Umar decided to make the new era start on 616CE instead of 622CE then what sectarians now call Rajab 1 would have been Ramadhan 1 and they would be fasting right now.
Thank God that he didnt. laugh
I dont care about the shifiting, BTW. -
And Umar did not try to befool people with "inscriptions".
Regardsso how did he try to befool people then? in the name of "authorities"? confused
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i havent had a chance to really read this article, but wasnt umar the second caliph... and one of the prophets (saw) companions? if so how could he have gotten this soo wrong?
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i havent had a chance to really read this article, but wasnt umar the second caliph... and one of the prophets (saw) companions? if so how could he have gotten this soo wrong?
They didnt
The current Ramadan is the correct one. -
They didnt
The current Ramadan is the correct one.yh i agree
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Peace Procrastinator,
i havent had a chance to really read this article, but wasnt umar the second caliph... and one of the prophets (saw) companions? if so how could he have gotten this soo wrong?
If you think that the present timing could be "so wrong" then the question of "how" or "who" is irrelevant since it doesn't magically make the timing right or non-arbitrary.
Unfortunately, the majority of so-called Muslims have been raised on hero-worship of the so-called Sahaba such as Umar. So deep inside they think that those guys were infallible. However, in reality all the instances of the prophet's "sahaba" in the great reading cast them in a negative light. In the two cases where they are mentioned in 532 and 8122 they thought that the prophet is crazy and lost. Moreover, there is absolutely ZERO evidence that Umar ever met or even saw the prophet. It seems that to gain legitimacy every ruler had to claim to have a lineage or connection to the prophet. Rulers in the middle east do it to the present day.
The real questions that you need to be asking are the following
- Is the sectarian timing arbitrary? The answer is absolutely YES.
- Do animals and therefore hunting restrictions go by the solar cycle? The answer is absolutely YES.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Procrastinator,
Unfortunately, the majority of so-called Muslims have been raised on hero-worship of the so-called Sahaba such as Umar. So deep inside they think that those guys were infallible.
AymanPeace
Those were not infallible like any human being but those were the most RELIABLE groups because their righteousness and sincerity is evident even in the Quran because they got divine certificate.Quran does not allow any "inscription " based interpretations.
Regards -
Those were not infallible like any human being but those were the most RELIABLE groups because their righteousness and sincerity is evident even in the Quran because they got divine certificate.
Quran does not allow any "inscription " based interpretations.
Regards
bravo
elhamdulillah, quran only allows hadith based interpretations
9 100 And the first to embrace Islam of the Muhajirun (those who migrated from Makkah to Al- Madinah, Umar, Abu bakr siddiq etc) and the Ansar (the citizens of Al- Madinah, abu ayyub alansari, Abu Mas'ud Al-Ansari etc who helped and gave aid to the Muhajirun) and also those who followed them exactly (in Faith). Allah is well-pleased with them* as they are well-pleased with Him. He has prepared for them Gardens under which rivers flow (Paradise), to dwell therein forever. That is the supreme success.
- For the complete list of muhajireen and ansaar see Bukhari, Muslim etc
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bravo
elhamdulillah, quran only allows hadith based interpretations
9 100 And the first to embrace Islam of the Muhajirun (those who migrated from Makkah to Al- Madinah, Umar, Abu bakr siddiq etc) and the Ansar (the citizens of Al- Madinah, abu ayyub alansari, Abu Mas'ud Al-Ansari etc who helped and gave aid to the Muhajirun) and also those who followed them exactly (in Faith). Allah is well-pleased with them* as they are well-pleased with Him. He has prepared for them Gardens under which rivers flow (Paradise), to dwell therein forever. That is the supreme success.
- For the complete list of muhajireen and ansaar see Bukhari, Muslim etc
rotfl
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Peace Ayman,
I have the following comments on your Hot/?Ramadan? article. The quotations in red are excerpt from your article.
?Of course, our analysis indicates that the restriction period would be different between the southern and the northern hemisphere. This is fine.?
No, this is not fine because your theory/approach contradicts Quranic verses and defies common sense.
Your theory allows for two different nights of destiny, one in the July time-frame in the Northern hemisphere and the second one in January time-frame in the Southern hemisphere. The two nights are separated by about six months. And this contradicts Quranic verse 971 - We revealed it in the Night of Destiny. The Quran talks about one night of Destiny only. The below quote of yours implies that you agree with one night of Destiny as well. Therefore, you are contracting yourself from the get-go.
?Interestingly, after completing this article, we inadvertently found out exactly when the night of destiny ("laylat al-qadr" occurs. Simply, the great reading was descended in the night of the full-moon of scorching heat.?
Common sense would dictate that the night of Destiny will start in one hemisphere and end in the other hemisphere in 24 hours. The night sweeps the globe in 24 hours with known exception at the Polar Regions. This is consistent with the Quran and common sense (of many people).
Further, if we apply your definition ?The full moon of scorching heat?, we find that the scorching full moon of the southern hemisphere around January time-frame (perihelion) satisfies the definition. At this time the Earth is closest to the sun unlike the northern hemisphere aphelion (July 4). The problem is we don?t find Prophet Muhammad in the southern hemisphere. Hence, your theory proves that Quran was not reveled to Prophet Muhammad which in turns implies that the God is a liar. And that is not true. Therefore, your theory must be false.
The God created the moon (Earth) for us so that we can count the twelve months. The Quran is easy to understand. Therefore, the easy understanding of verse 936, 2189, 1433 is 1 moon cycle = 1 month. After counting 12 moon cycles we reset the count back to one again. There is nothing more and nothing less (no 13 moon nonsense). The moon cycles every 29.530 days.
The length of the solar cycle is 365.242 days. The Earth?s spin gives us days and nights. That is the service provided by the sun.
Pure solar and lunar cycles (calendars) are continually adrift against the seasons i.e. there is no connection between the seasons and the solar and lunar cycle. This is your Lord?s design. Are you questioning His design? Then why are you trying to connect the seasons to the solar and lunar cycles and bring new law to us? Are you trying to lead us astray? Or have you received a revelation from Him?
If the God wanted the season connection then He would have designed solar and lunar cycle accordingly.
The similitude is like this ?The God tells us to worship Him alone? but most people do the opposite. Likewise, the God tells us not to make new religious law (e.g. start fasting in hot full moon) but many of us do. The God has just the right punishment waiting for the disbeliever. Just wait and see.
The God said if you cannot fast in the month of Ramadan due to illness you can make it up another time. He did not say you will get less credit because you did not fast in the month of Ramadan. This proves that there are no seasonal ties to the fasting month.
Of course, there is nothing wrong in using solar cycle or lunar cycle or both together to solve some worldly problems such as determining the most optimum time to sow seeds. These are the deviation and not the standard. The standards are the natural lunar and solar cycles and according to the Quran our religious matter must be based on these standards.
?This is confirmed by archeological evidence from coins and manuscripts of the era. ?
Flawed approach If you accept this then you must also accept Jesus as son of God, Idol worship and other nonsense archeological dig. Remember you cannot pick and choose evidence after you have accepted the archeological approach to determine truth from falsehood i.e. any archeological find is truth. How do you handle a situation where today?s archeological finding is contradicted by future archeological findings? How do you account for true evidence that is lost for ever? How do you define a complete archeological evidence set? A conclusion based on a incomplete set of evidence is not trustworthy (equates to hearsay, hadith). Do you believe in king Tut and sun worship?
?So the timing of Ramadan today is dependent not only on the sighting of the new crescent moon but on an arbitrary decision that was made many centuries ago.?
Tying a calendar to an event does not change the lunar cycle. Therefore, the arbitrary decision problem you are instigating has no merit.
?The only derivative from "R-M-Dh" in the great reading is the word "ramadhan", which occurs only once. Hence, there is no way to compare directly the meaning with how it is used in other verses.?
A righteous person would have stop right here. However, a deviated person would go witch hunting for information that does not exist.
?According to Classical Arabic dictionaries, the Arabs used to call the moon "shahr". But what phase of the moon does the word "shahr" imply??
Classical Arabic dictionaries = Hadith (hearsay). Is dictionary your idol?
Are you saying that Prophet Muhammad use to do what you are advocating or Prophet did it wrong? If Prophet Muhammad did it your way then where is your evidence of deviation (when did people start to deviate).
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A-salaam alaikum
I have a question, you quoted the verses below. My question is where in them verses does it say that the cycle of the moon = 1 month? It does however say They ask you about the phases of the moon! Say, "They provide a timing device for the people, and determine the time of Hajj.
Now it provides a timing devise for the people not necessarily a timing device to determine one month, could be a timing device for something else???. Also its a timing device to determine Hajj. Also, The count of months, as far as GOD is concerned, is twelve. e.g. Jan, feb, march, etc... We use twelve months now. Logic tells me we are using a good calander system now which determines the seasons and natural system that god provided for us. I know from this system when to plant my crop (if I was a farmer), when to book my holiday and where to go to enjoy some rays etc etc...
May be you should have stared your sentence as The God created the moon, sun, earth and the stars for us so that we can count the twelve months....Forgive me if I have raised a question that might be clear to others. Excuse my ignorance as I do not mean to challege anyones understanding, thinking mine is above anyone elses. Iam new and just like many here, I am seeking the truth and logic. May God guide us to the correct system. May peace from God transcend upon you all.
The God created the moon (Earth) for us so that we can count the twelve months. The Quran is easy to understand. Therefore, the easy understanding of verse 936, 2189, 1433 is 1 moon cycle = 1 month. After counting 12 moon cycles we reset the count back to one again. There is nothing more and nothing less (no 13 moon nonsense). The moon cycles every 29.530 days.
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Peace Guest,
I have the following comments on your Hot/?Ramadan? article. The quotations in red are excerpt from your article.
?Of course, our analysis indicates that the restriction period would be different between the southern and the northern hemisphere. This is fine.?
No, this is not fine because your theory/approach contradicts Quranic verses and defies common sense.
The restriction is about hunting wild life. Wild life follows the solar cycle, not the lunar one. The cycle of wild life is different between the southern and the northern hemispheres. So it is normal that the restriction period would also be different.
Your theory allows for two different nights of destiny, one in the July time-frame in the Northern hemisphere and the second one in January time-frame in the Southern hemisphere. The two nights are separated by about six months. And this contradicts Quranic verse 971 - We revealed it in the Night of Destiny. The Quran talks about one night of Destiny only. The below quote of yours implies that you agree with one night of Destiny as well. Therefore, you are contracting yourself from the get-go.
Firstly, it is the night of ?measure? not ?destiny?. Please see how ?qadar? is used throughout the great reading, for example in 3639.
Secondly, who said there are two nights or over 1400 nights? You need to read carefully the whole passage in Chapter 97. The god said that he descended the great reading in the night of measure. He also said that the night of measure is PEACEFUL until the rise of daybreak. It is an indisputable reality that there is not a single night of the year where people suddenly stop fighting wars and peace on earth is achieved and criminals don't rob or kill. Unless you are saying that the god is exaggerating then your traditional interpretation is clearly verifiable as false. In my opinion, there are two feasible interpretations
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The night of measure occurred only once over 1400 years ago when the great reading was descended.
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The night of measure is experienced in terms of its benefits and peacefulness as a result of one?s realization of what this night is. This is in line with other benefits of the night in general like those described in 736. Only those who study and ponder in the night would experience 736. Those who commit sins during the night wouldn?t experience the effects of the night in 736. Since this is based on the individual and therefore their location in conjunction with the night, then this night being different in the southern and northern hemispheres is not an issue.
?Interestingly, after completing this article, we inadvertently found out exactly when the night of destiny ("laylat al-qadr" occurs. Simply, the great reading was descended in the night of the full-moon of scorching heat.?
Common sense would dictate that the night of Destiny will start in one hemisphere and end in the other hemisphere in 24 hours. The night sweeps the globe in 24 hours with known exception at the Polar Regions. This is consistent with the Quran and common sense (of many people).
Further, if we apply your definition ?The full moon of scorching heat?, we find that the scorching full moon of the southern hemisphere around January time-frame (perihelion) satisfies the definition. At this time the Earth is closest to the sun unlike the northern hemisphere aphelion (July 4). The problem is we don?t find Prophet Muhammad in the southern hemisphere. Hence, your theory proves that Quran was not reveled to Prophet Muhammad which in turns implies that the God is a liar. And that is not true. Therefore, your theory must be false.Prophet Muhammad wasn?t in America or Morocco or Tokyo. The ?night? in those locations occurs at a different time than in Arabia. So those ?nights of measure? are not the right ones either according to your logic. Also, using your logic, the problem is that we don?t find Prophet Muhammad anywhere since he is dead, so there is no night of measure.
The God created the moon (Earth) for us so that we can count the twelve months. The Quran is easy to understand. Therefore, the easy understanding of verse 936, 2189, 1433 is 1 moon cycle = 1 month. After counting 12 moon cycles we reset the count back to one again. There is nothing more and nothing less (no 13 moon nonsense). The moon cycles every 29.530 days.
The length of the solar cycle is 365.242 days. The Earth?s spin gives us days and nights. That is the service provided by the sun.
Pure solar and lunar cycles (calendars) are continually adrift against the seasons i.e. there is no connection between the seasons and the solar and lunar cycle. This is your Lord?s design. Are you questioning His design? Then why are you trying to connect the seasons to the solar and lunar cycles and bring new law to us? Are you trying to lead us astray? Or have you received a revelation from Him?
Yes, I have received revelation from him and so have you. We both received 1712 but you are ignoring it while I am not
17.12. We have made the night and the day as two signs the sign of the night We have obscured, while the sign of the day we have made visible so that you may seek favors from your Lord, and so that you may know the number of years and the calculation, and We have explained all things in detail.
How can you determine the number of years using the ?night and the day?? The ONLY way to use the night and the day to determine the number of years is to count the interval between shortest/longest day and the shortest/longest night, in other words the interval between either the summer solstices or winter solstices. So the sign in 1712 leaves absolutely no doubt that the year is primarily solar.
So you are in fact violating 936 EVERY SINGLE YEAR because you are counting 12.3 ?months? in a 1712 year. Also, 936-37 is about not violating the god?s restriction. What is restricted is hunting wild life, which follows the solar cycle. This is an indisputable fact.
Also, where does the word ?moon?, ?month? or ?year? occur in 2189? You clearly don?t even understand the simple facts in 2189.
Please read carefully 1433 and 105 and note that they talk about using the sun AND the moon. Why do you reject the god?s words and not use both?
If the God wanted the season connection then He would have designed solar and lunar cycle accordingly.
He did. When you count ONLY 12 full moons EVERY SINGLE YEAR as the god commanded you in 936, then the cycle is adjusted effortlessly and automatically and without relying on religious authorities.
The similitude is like this ?The God tells us to worship Him alone? but most people do the opposite. Likewise, the God tells us not to make new religious law (e.g. start fasting in hot full moon) but many of us do. The God has just the right punishment waiting for the disbeliever. Just wait and see.
I am waiting with you.
The God said if you cannot fast in the month of Ramadan due to illness you can make it up another time. He did not say you will get less credit because you did not fast in the month of Ramadan. This proves that there are no seasonal ties to the fasting month.
This proves nothing except that you have no real argument.
Of course, there is nothing wrong in using solar cycle or lunar cycle or both together to solve some worldly problems such as determining the most optimum time to sow seeds. These are the deviation and not the standard. The standards are the natural lunar and solar cycles and according to the Quran our religious matter must be based on these standards.
You mean the Umar calendar standard and not the god?s standard.
?This is confirmed by archeological evidence from coins and manuscripts of the era. ?
Flawed approach If you accept this then you must also accept Jesus as son of God, Idol worship and other nonsense archeological dig. Remember you cannot pick and choose evidence after you have accepted the archeological approach to determine truth from falsehood i.e. any archeological find is truth. How do you handle a situation where today?s archeological finding is contradicted by future archeological findings? How do you account for true evidence that is lost for ever? How do you define a complete archeological evidence set? A conclusion based on a incomplete set of evidence is not trustworthy (equates to hearsay, hadith). Do you believe in king Tut and sun worship?
The god orders people to walk the earth and look at the traces left by those before them in passages such as 309 and others. Why do you reject 309? The conclusions that one reaches based on studying the archeological evidence will depend on the person?s intelligence, objectivity and level of rational thinking and lack of bias. While someone like you would come to the conclusion that Jesus is the son of god (the god be most exalted above what they describe), someone like me wouldn?t.
?So the timing of Ramadan today is dependent not only on the sighting of the new crescent moon but on an arbitrary decision that was made many centuries ago.?
Tying a calendar to an event does not change the lunar cycle. Therefore, the arbitrary decision problem you are instigating has no merit.
It is not my problem that you don?t even know what you are following. You ignore that you are following a calendar. Since you are following a calendar that starts at a certain manmade year ONE and that has a certain manmade order of the months. The starting point of the calendar and the order of the months HAVE NOTHING TO DO with the lunar or solar cycles and are completely arbitrary manmade decisions. It is an indisputable fact that had the Umar calendar been made to start three years earlier then you would be fasting Ramadhan in what is now Sha3ban. It is also an indisputable fact that had the manmade order of the months been different then you would be fasting an entirely different month. So for all intents and purposes, sectarians are fasting a 100% arbitrary manmade month.
?The only derivative from "R-M-Dh" in the great reading is the word "ramadhan", which occurs only once. Hence, there is no way to compare directly the meaning with how it is used in other verses.?
A righteous person would have stop right here. However, a deviated person would go witch hunting for information that does not exist.
?According to Classical Arabic dictionaries, the Arabs used to call the moon "shahr". But what phase of the moon does the word "shahr" imply??
Classical Arabic dictionaries = Hadith (hearsay). Is dictionary your idol?
How did you learn Arabic so that you can read the great reading? You learned it from grammar books and dictionaries. Are grammar books and dictionaries and school books your idol? Don?t be a hypocrite. One can use dictionaries and grammar books as long as one knows their limits and uses them intelligently, is aware of their weaknesses and mistakes and validates them against the great reading.
Are you saying that Prophet Muhammad use to do what you are advocating or Prophet did it wrong? If Prophet Muhammad did it your way then where is your evidence of deviation (when did people start to deviate).
No. You are the one who is implying that the prophet followed the wrong timing. You are following Umar?s calendar which was backdated to the supposed year of the Hijra, therefore implying that the prophet fasted on the wrong dates.
Peace,
Ayman
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A-salaam alaikum
Thank you for your explenation Ayman, seems logical to me. I have a few questions if you or anyone without taking too much of your time wont mind answering or directing me to sites that have answered these questions before
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There seems to be many celebrations or special timings in Islam like Eid, night of measure, ramadan etc. Where in the Quran is the evidence for this? Do we know the exact dates or timings to observe these special events?
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Ayman, you mentioned Umar's calander, when was this invented? If this was a later addition, where did the need to change come from? I was always lead to believe that this timing system was present in the time of the prophet.
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How about the name of the months, who gave them the names they have today? History is amazing!
This is really strange that I am asking these questions coming from a muslim background. I suddenly feel liberated and following a path which feels clearer to me, more logical and in line with the Quran. I always had questions before but was always told not to question what I had no knowledge of and the people at the top were specially chosen to lead us as their spirit was closest to God (holy people). As a result I have had many questions burning inside me for so long. Sorry just wanted to share that bit with you all
Peace to you all.
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