Hot/"ramadan" Answer

guest

Don't you see why the Muslims are so backward, because of backward thinking like yours, and

Muslims are backward because of people like you. You should be ashamed of yourself.

the Sun revolves around the Earth.

That?s what Ayman still believe. And you are his advocate. What does that say.

quickduck

No, I don't agree with you.
As the Earth spins, we move through the light, into the darkness, and back again.

I think i have to ask you again DO YOU FEEL THE EARTH SPINNING RIGHT NOW ? DO YOU SEE THE SUN FIXED IN THE SKY ?
If not, so nobody does . But if you do, then you are the only one amongst god's creatures.
for every earth being, (except YOU ) the sun IS THE responsible for day and night. NOT the earth, NEITHER the moon !

You mean would I be able to foil a satanic scheme. You bet, I will. The God always guides and protect his servents.

Dark is a reality just as much as light is a reality. Therefore, your second postulate is wrong (satanic) and since the third postulate depends on the second it is in the toilet.

I agree with you . Even stupidity is a reality and it's not the absence of intelligence . you are a living proof of it !
Salam

noble

Peace guest
So your method to your winning arguments when you are losing them is to become abusive, charming.
I will not lower myself to your level, your place is not discussing in a Real Muslim forum, but among like
minded people in waziristan and tora bora...
You are the shame, and will take this responsibility with you on the day of judgment.
My sins are enough for me, but they certainly do not include covering the truth as you do...
I look for the Truth...
You are arrogant, and you think you already have the Truth...
Who is Satan's minion?

unknownuser

61 - Praise be to GOD, who created the heavens and the earth, and made the darkness and the light. Yet, those who disbelieve in their Lord continue to deviate.

Dark is a reality just as much as light is a reality. Therefore, your second postulate is wrong (satanic) and since the third postulate depends on the second it is in the toilet.

You are trying to contradict the Quran (your hidden agenda) by asking silly question such as ?absence of light = darkness?. You are only going to fool yourself and not the believer. Satanic scheme is flimsier than the spider web.

Try your stupidity with Ayman, he likes this kind of stuff.

SubhanAllah

I know people here are just jealous of your intelligence but I'm just trying to learn, I enjoy reading your posts. bravo

so according to your understanding In the night time people actually do not experience "absence of light" but they experience darkness because there is no light of the sun in the night times? or may be the light is there its just us who are unable to see the light because of utter darkness?

quickduck

SubhanAllah

I know people here are just jealous of your intelligence but I'm just trying to learn, I enjoy reading your posts. bravo

He's really good, isn't he ?

guest

I think i have to ask you again DO YOU FEEL THE EARTH SPINNING RIGHT NOW ? DO YOU SEE THE SUN FIXED IN THE SKY ?
If not, so nobody does . But if you do, then you are the only one amongst god's creatures.
for every earth being, (except YOU ) the sun IS THE responsible for day and night. NOT the earth, NEITHER the moon !

I agree with you . Even stupidity is a reality and it's not the absence of intelligence . you are a living proof of it !
Salam

Just a few post ago you said earth-moon-sun relationship is elementary school problem. How come you are asking elementary questions now? Shame on you.

The earth is spinning whether you like it or not. Every day around 4 AM I see planet Venus (?) from my window (looking east). First I see it on the horizon and then in matter of 15-30 minutes I see it moved noticeably higher. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that either earth is moving, or Venus is moving, or both are moving (one may be faster than the other). Did that answer your question.

As for the other question "DO YOU SEE THE SUN FIXED IN THE SKY ?", this is laughable. No I don't see sun fixed in the sky. I see sun in the horizon, then high up, and then back to horizon again. And you are calling this fixed. Shame, shame, shame.

belH

CAN YOU READ ARABIC? YES OR NO ?

Anyway, i did copy paste the word "" in the link you provided. here is the answer

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Assuming you can read arabic (which is not very sure) , tell us what's the main meaning of ?
Everyone can read (except you) that it means most of the time , something obvious/wellknown..and everyone can read (except you) that only one of its meaning can be "month". And this is because it is related to a (shahar/obvious) moon . ie. full moon.

As you can see, the only source claiming that means crescent (&#1604 is a hadithic source...
the hadith says "fast the shahr and it's secret part " " it leaves no doubt, even from a hadith source (lol) that the moon has its obvious part " / full moon" and its secret part " / crescent".
you're trapped in your own hole !!!

Peace all,

Thank you very much for using Arabic evidence, and not Amharic (Ethiopian) as Ayman did, in order to argue about the true arabic meaning of Shahar.

Non of the above shows that the Word Shahar= Full moon...But in one of the meaning (one of the tens suggested uses) says the following (the part that you highlighted in red)

Translate as follow (Word by Word)

And the Month the Moon, it was named like this due to its bright appearance; and they said, WHEN IT SHOWS (the Moon) and ALMOST CLOSE TO BEING FULL.

Does that gave you a hint that he is not talking about THE FULL MOON, rather, something is gradually becoming FULL MOON...What that thing could be? !

By the way, most, if not all of the above Arabic dictionary, which you quoted, suggest that the Word Shahar = the Length of the MOON CYCLE (29 to 30 days)...Can you deny this?

quickduck

By the way, most, if not all of the above Arabic dictionary, which you quoted, suggest that the Word Shahar = the Length of the MOON CYCLE (29 to 30 days)...Can you deny this?

i don't deny this, and i never did !!
What i said is in arabic, we can also use the word friday to mean week, and spring/summer to mean year. eg i'll be traveling for a friday (i'll be traveling for one week) because friday in this case, is used as a marker of the week (obvious "marker" because of friday's prayer = easy to remember/count, jut like the shahr/full moon is used to mean a month since the month can be described as the time frame between 2 full moons (obvious markers easy to remember/count).. that's it !

And don't forget, you have 4 other arguments to refute, and then we can discuss.

Salam

belH

i don't deny this, and i never did !!

In our efforts to eliminate stupidity, I will explain to you what I wrote

The Arabic dictionary that you quote suggests that Shahar means the period between the first appearance of the Moon, not the full moon, to second appearance--Waxing Crescent to the next waxing Crescent.

Peace all,

Thank you very much for using Arabic evidence, and not Amharic (Ethiopian) as Ayman did, in order to argue about the true arabic meaning of Shahar.

Non of the above shows that the Word Shahar= Full moon...But in one of the meaning (one of the tens suggested uses) says the following (the part that you highlighted in red)

Translate as follow (Word by Word)

And the Month the Moon, it was named like this due to its bright appearance; and they said, WHEN IT SHOWS (the Moon) and ALMOST CLOSE TO BEING FULL.

Does that gave you a hint that he is not talking about THE FULL MOON, rather, something is gradually becoming FULL MOON...What that thing could be? !

By the way, most, if not all of the above Arabic dictionary, which you quoted, suggest that the Word Shahar = the Length of the MOON CYCLE (29 to 30 days)...Can you deny this?

Do you still agree? Because what you wrote either you made unintentional mistake or we are letting Stupidity takes over again...then I will act the same when arguing.

quickduck

The Arabic dictionary that you quote suggests that Shahar means the period between the first appearance of the Moon, not the full moon, to second appearance--Waxing Crescent to the next waxing Crescent.

1- Note that this "suggestion" is only from hadith interpretation , and yours as well...All other meanings of shahr are related to something obvious...

2- for this point, i still agree with you , BOTH MEANINGS ARE CORRECT
shahr = night of full moon (original marker) = month (period between 2 full moons in day to day language).

just like
friday = 6th day of the week (original marker) = week (period between 2 fridays) in day to day language) .

and also,

spring = season from march 21 to june 20 (original markers) = Year (period between 2 springs in day to day language )

I really want to discuss, so let's put stupidity behind us ok ?

Salam

belH

1- Note that this "suggestion" is only from hadith interpretation , and yours as well...All other meanings of shahr are related to something obvious...

2- for this point, i still agree with you , BOTH MEANINGS ARE CORRECT
shahr = night of full moon (original marker) = month (period between 2 full moons in day to day language).

Peace,

I will give this one more chance...you still ignoring that the translation and the meaning of your own evidence

Translate as follow (Word by Word)

And the Month the Moon, it was named like this due to its bright appearance; and they said, WHEN IT SHOWS (the Moon) and ALMOST CLOSE TO BEING FULL.

The above does not suggest Full Moon, rather, Waxing Crescent.

Now, I will move to another issue. If what you and Ayman are proposing, we should ignore the moon #13 when calculating a Year, then, can you calculate for us the following, after reading this

4615 And We enjoined man to do good to his parents. His mother bore him with hardship, gave birth to him in hardship, and his bearing and weaning lasts thirty months. So that, when he has reached his independence, and he has reached forty years, he says My Lord, direct me to appreciate the blessings You have bestowed upon me and upon my parents, and to do good work that pleases You. And let my progeny be righteous. I have repented to You; I am of those who have submitted.
4615

1-How many years are in the 30 month period that is mentioned in the above verse?

2-How many Months (full moon to full moon period, or Waxing Crescent to Waxing Crescent) are in the 40 years period mentioned in the above verse?

Please let us give it one more chance to end this in an intelligent way.

Any one wants to answer, please do so.

peace

ayman

Peace Belal,

1-How many years are in the 30 month period that is mentioned in the above verse?

This has already been answered. try to read before going in circles

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.msg215872#msg215872

2-How many Months (full moon to full moon period, or Waxing Crescent to Waxing Crescent) are in the 40 years period mentioned in the above verse?
Please let us give it one more chance to end this in an intelligent way.

This is a stupid question. How old are you? Do you know anyone who counts his or her age in lunar months?

Peace,

Ayman

siki

Then why did you reply me with 60 days? why not 58 or 59 days?

(when i asked you the question, "if God asks you to do something for two months , how many days in total you would do it for" ?)

siki

Belh

I am still waiting for your response on the above question that i asked sometime back.

siki

Ashraf

Welcome back! It's been almost a year...

Thanks and Peace to u..in fact i am always hooking up to FM although I'm not posting..FM is truly opensource !

I wouldn't consider 2 as part of ma3duudat, since it's mentioned as an exception for special circumsatnces of what would be accepted outside the ma3duudaat.
Minimum of ma3duudat 3
Maximum 10

That is what I am thinking before (2 days is exception), but after looking at the verse 2203 again & again, my perspective have been changed.
where 2 days was describe as acceptable period for remembrance and no explicit maximum no of days specified.
The 3 days siyaam fil hajj (or 10 days for a man/women who have their family coming together?) is a compensation imposed (fidyah min siyamin aw sodaqatin aw nusuqin 2196) for inability to send offering > due to inability to perform hajj within even a minimum of 2 days as specified in 2203. See that Quran is very specific when it comes to precision matters where 3 was clearly mentioned.
In short, you have to compensate with 3 days siyaam if you cannot make even 2 days remembrance
If you managed to make 2 days remembrances, do we still need to compensate with 3 siyaam ? !
Why 2 days be regarded as "exception"? Further, there is no "Illa" mentioned anywhere in this verse.
Thus ayyaman ma3dudat definition as per quran shall incorporate minimum 2 days..(anybody agree or mind boggling with this argument?) ;D

Peace, Ashraf

Ashraf

Salaam,

In my opinion, there is a clue on how we can determined scientifically the exact time when the very "1st" night of "scorching full moon" (or near full moon) happen, thus we can verify the year when quran was descended.

Quran was descended during Lailatul Qadr where during this special event night, the intensity of brightness, surface heat or temperature of the moon shall equivalent to 1000 ordinary full moon (other than this very unique night).

Probably there was someone outside there who is brilliant to work our the celestial object study of this very special moon.

Peace, Ashraf

ayman

Peace Ashraf,

In my opinion, there is a clue on how we can determined scientifically the exact time when the very "1st" night of "scorching full moon" (or near full moon) happen, thus we can verify the year when quran was descended.
Quran was descended during Lailatul Qadr where during this special event night, the intensity of brightness, surface heat or temperature of the moon shall equivalent to 1000 ordinary full moon (other than this very unique night).
Probably there was someone outside there who is brilliant to work our the celestial object study of this very special moon.

The god says that the great reading is light. I think that the night of measure and the 1000 full-moons can be understood accordingly.

Peace,

Ayman

Ashraf

The god says that the great reading is light. I think that the night of measure and the 1000 full-moons can be understood accordingly.

Hi Ayman,

I already saw your argument before ). Probably they are more physical evidence to it, literal and real.

Peace, Ashraf

guest

Peace,

so according to your understanding In the night time people actually do not experience "absence of light" but they experience darkness because there is no light of the sun in the night times? or may be the light is there its just us who are unable to see the light because of utter darkness?

Here is my solution for the darkness and light issue

In verse 61 the God talks about the Darkness first and then Light
In other verses the God talks about rolling night over day and then day over night
In other verses the God talks about merging night and day
In other verses the God talks about night overtakes day

Conclusions from the above 4 points

Darkness and light are two different entity i.e. darkness is not a consequence of light (lack) as this would violate 61.
Darkness existed before light
Darkness is the starting point. For example, our day starts after sunset
We start from darkness and then the God out of His mercy provide us with light to reveal SOME of the secret of darkness. As we know day cannot reveal what is inside our body, or what is in the depth of ocean, or the outer space, or inside the tree, etc. Therefore, day cannot get rid of darkness completely. Light has limited capability. Darkness is more capable than light (maybe more power?)

If you try to define darkness as ?absence of light? it will cause numerous problems which I don?t care to discuss here.

Remember even during day when we have direct sunlight, light cannot remove all the darkness.

Hope this answers your questions.

ayman

Peace Guest,

Here is my solution for the darkness and light issue

The only issue is your lack of understanding. Everyone, even little kids, understand that day and night are related to the sun and have nothing to do with the moon. Also most people with any kind of education know that the only way to use day and night to measure the year is if the year is taken as the interval between solstices (longest/shortest day/night). Despite all your useless ranting, you use terms like "sunset" (regardless of how it sets). If you lock yourself in a dark room, it doesn't mean that it is night. You don't seem to be able to understand even simple things like the fact that darkness and light are different concepts than night and day. Instead of sincerely trying to find the truth based on the great reading, your objective is to work backwards to justify your traditional timing. So you are completely lost and are in no position to find a solution for anything. If you want to find a solution for something then first find a solution for cleaning up your mind from all the traditional junk and cleaning up your heart from the idol/hero worship fetishes that you have for stone cubes and the so-called Sahaba. Maybe afterwards you will have a small chance of understanding.

Peace,

Ayman

guest

Peace Ayman,

Instead of sincerely trying to find the truth based on the great reading, your objective is to work backwards to justify your traditional timing.

Are you impersonating Ayman. Because the Ayman I am used to (this forum) does not care about the Quran. He wants to get famous by twisting God?s words in the Quran. Will real Ayman please stand up? Real Ayman will not succeed in putting out God?s message. This is guaranteed.